Blow For The Trade Down Crowd
March 11th, 2015
Eagles’ strongman Chip Kelly killed the popular belief he wants Marcus Mariota.
Joe just doesn’t get it. Never will. The Bucs, for years, have been in need of a quarterback in the absolute worst way.
And now, holding the No. 1 pick overall, have the rare once-in-30-years chance of solving this issue for maybe a decade, perhaps for 15 years, and there is still a sect of Bucs fans who demand to trade down.
For what? Missing out on a quarterback this year means at least three more years of painful offense, wasting Vincent Jackson’s final years and Mike Evans’ prime. The only pro-style college quarterback Joe can think of that is halfway decent in the next three years is Christian Hackenberg, and James Franklin seems to be doing his best to ruin the kid.
(Don’t get Joe started on spread quarterbacks.)
Any other year, Joe could buy in to the trade-down crowd. Not this year, no way in hell, no matter the ransom someone wants to pay. No way; no how.
Yet the trade-down crowd has not been quiet. They awaken each morning admiring their framed Woody Hayes photo and begin a daily ritual of wearing out their rosaries hoping Bucs general manager Jason Licht swings a trade (that would seal his fate as a Bucs head honcho).
The key talking point for these Bucs fans is that Eagles strongman Chip Kelly wants Marcus Mariota so badly he will trade half his team and an entire draft to get him.
Well, Kelly threw ice water on these folks’ dream today, when he stated he doesn’t want Mariota, reports Geoff Mosher of CSNPhilly.com.
“Let’s dispel that right now,” Chip said re: trade up for MM. Chip said MArcus best QB in draft but he wouldn’t mortgage future of team.
— Geoff Mosher (@GeoffMosherCSN) March 11, 2015
Uh, oh. So much for that idea, huh?
Come on Bucs fans. Say it with Joe. You can do it. You can embrace it. Say it!
“JA-mus.”
“JA-mus.”
“JA-mus.”
March 11th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
Welcome To Tampa, Jameis!!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
thank you for posting this joe because it was impossible to say that’s a stupid idea, nevermind the fact that he didn’t have what it would have cost to move from 20 to 19 lol
March 11th, 2015 at 3:18 pm
Actually it’s a blow for the Jameis crowd. Chip wants to trade up, but the price is too high because Tampa is intent on taking Mariota so he settled for plan B.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
Funny Joe! I’ll say it!
JA-mus
JA-mus
JA-mus…….GO BUCS!!!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
@bucrightoff
I agree….this could mean that Kelly knows Mariota won’t drop to 2,6 or 10….where he would have a shot at Mariota.
The deal from 20 to 1 was always extremely unlikley because the Bucs want a QB and wouldn’t trade past #2.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
He won’t mortgage future, but he already did by getting rid of his best players. Haha.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Chip Kelly is crazy…has all of Philly ready to jump off the Ben Franklin Bridge.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Just another case of media imagination. Taking a thought and turning it into a “source” to try and make a story. I call it lying.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
Yes, Joe, we all know you are a Winstonite,
You have beaten use with the idea more often that Adrian Peterson beats his kids.
Enough already.
Scary what Kelly is doing with his backfield. The very brittle Bradford is about ready to hand the ball off to another glass sculpture, Ryan Mathews.
I’m glad I don’t have to pay that teams insurance premiums in the coming years.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
LOL
March 11th, 2015 at 3:28 pm
I see the Eagles trading with the Titans, Bucs draft Mariota, eagles draft Winston, Bucs-Eagles swap QBs with trade that gives Bucs Winston, Kiko Alonso and some picks. Then in 5 years the Bucs will be looking for another QB while the Eagles have multiple super bowl wins.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Joe…..what about all of the many teams wanting to trade up for Winston?
Doesn’t that keep the “trade-down” crowd alive and still hopeful?
March 11th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
And Joe, please bring the picture of the crystal ball that guarantees that J W is the savior. I mean lets be serious. give me 2 all pro offensive linemen and the rest just good and a Defensive left end to get the D off the field consistently and I will win more games. With a good O line, Glennon could become one of the top 15 QB’s in the league. You just don’t get it.Winston doesn’t set his feet well, he throws off balance and yes you can get away with it in the bush leagues, this is the NFL. For Winston, that will stand for Not For Long if you don’t give him 4 seconds to deliver his windup toss.
Joe, stick to writing and let those that know talent pick the QB.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Michael Johnson is apparently going to be released.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Rappaport reporting that michael Johnson is being released by Bucs! Good riddance!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:34 pm
Even knowing he doesn’t have enough to move up to get Mariota, he still says he’s the best Qb in the draft. Now throw in the 20 NFL executives that Joe himself posted last week and you want us to start chanting Jameis? I’ll actually wait and see who we draft and then chant that name no matter who it is…. Did I tell everyone I’m a great person yet today? I’m a great person! All the great people throughout time make sure they tell people how great they are.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:36 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo wants everyone to know that Pablo is a great person too”
March 11th, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Of course we should consider the fact that Joe has never been right on a QB!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:38 pm
It wasn’t realistic for Philly to trade all the way up to #1 from #20 in the first place. But it’s fun to speculate sometimes, especially in the offseason when that’s all we have while waiting several months for football to start again.
I think the Bucs will still get inquiries for the pick. And there’s always a wild card team that comes out of nowhere and surprises with a trade. This week has been a good example. It think the Bucs will stay put and draft a QB.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:39 pm
Joe, the reason that you do not get it, is because many of us are not convinced that EITHER of these guys are slam dunk bonafide superstars. Both have numerous flaws….
March 11th, 2015 at 3:45 pm
(Sigh)…again with this BS? How many QBs taken with the #1 overall pick have turned into legitimate franchise QBs with the team that drafted him? OK, no, how many current QBs taken in the TOP 5 picks are currently a legitimate franchise QB with ANY team?
AFC – Luck (Colts)
Manning (Peyton – Colts and now Broncos)
Rivers (Chargers)
NFC – Manning (Eli – Giants)
Stafford (Lions)
Ryan (Falcons)
Newton (Panthers)
Palmer (Cardinals)
I don’t know how anyone can qualify RGIII in this category, yet, he hasn’t looked good since his rookie year. And, you can argue about Palmer and Stafford from the above list, since Stafford only has 2 playoff games and Palmer 3, and neither has one a single playoff game yet.
So, that’s (arguably) 8 QBs out of all the top 5 QBs taken.
If you take a look at top QBs currently in the league, guys who were taken after pick #10 (Roethlisberger, Flacco, Rodgers & even Cutler) to guys taken in rounds 2 or 3 (Wilson, Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick) to guys taken in 6th round (Brady) or not drafted at all (Romo), these guys far outnumber the top 5s.
Bottom line, the Bucs should ONLY take Winston or Mariota if they are as close to absolute certainty as they can get that one of these guys will become a great QB. No matter what the fans, or Mel Kiper, or Joe, or Mike Mayock say, L & L have to be ready to put their jobs on the line for one of these two – otherwise – it’s their JOB to trade down for the best deal they can get!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:45 pm
Marcus
Marcus
Marcus
March 11th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
I’d trade down with the Browns if we were gonna go that route…. 2 1st’s this year.. and whatever else we can get from them..
Still in the MM camp though
March 11th, 2015 at 3:50 pm
Bluffing…. Do any of you really think he would show his hand?
March 11th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
I never thought Chip was coming for the #1 pick. I think Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis with their 2 picks, and Breese are more likely, if anyone.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:53 pm
Chip Kelly is a bad liar though so I doubt he’s bluffing. I mean he said someone already offered a first round pick for Bradford…I mean come on Chip lol.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
Signs, signs, everywhere signs…..
March 11th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
SMOKE SCREEN … watch Tennessee trade down!!!
March 11th, 2015 at 3:56 pm
Your grasping Joe, even if Winston is good he isn’t a once in 30 years QB.
If you were able to lump all the QB’s drafted in the 1st and 2nd round of the last five years, here is probably were jameis would land: Spoiler alert he would barely crack the top ten.
The only question you should be answering is, how does Jameis compare to Cam Newton, Matt Ryan and Drew Brees?
You are championing to spend the #1 pick overall for the 4th best QB in the division. Hmm…. why does that sound familiar?
1 1 Andrew Luck QB Stanford Indianapolis Colts
1 1 Cam Newton QB Auburn Carolina Panthers
1 2 Robert Griffin QB Baylor Washington Redskins
2 35 Andy Dalton QB Texas Cincinnati Bengals
1 8 Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M Miami Dolphins
1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings
2 36 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada San Francisco 49ers
Jamies Winston
1 22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M Cleveland Browns
2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno Oakland Raiders
Just because you have the #1 pick, doesn’t mean you need to use it on a QB who should be drafted middle to late first round.
The only reason he’s talked about as #1 overall, is because the Buc’s have the pick.
If Tampa, Tenn and the Jets had a QB (Geno… good one) Jamies would drop to at least 16 if not farther.
#1 rule of drafting, draft the best player, not what you need. They should call this the Luck Rule.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Remember when the Mariota slurpers were saying that bc the Eagles wanted to trade for Mariota that just proved he was the best QB prospect EVAH
Well now, there is NO ONE looking to trade up for Mariota and the best offensive minded coach in the league, Sean Peyton, wants to trade up for Winston. What does that tell you?
Well, it tells me nothing because it’s a stupid metric to use. But you SLURPERS should shut up now.
Jameis is the pick. He has always been the pick. And he will run circles around Mariota for years to come.
Put a smile on your faces my brothers. We’re getting Jameis, we’re getting a winner and we’re getting our swagger back.
March 11th, 2015 at 3:58 pm
I’m not for trading the pick but I don’t find it absurd at all. This team is multiple players away from contending. Extra first round picks are needed. A rookie QB behind our offensive line is a scary thought as far as that QB’s development and, I agree with Bo, I am not convinced either QB is a sure thing. I am certain we will draft one of the two guys and it’s best to take that chance, but I don’t think the idea of trading back is as ridiculous as Joe believes.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:01 pm
JP4 To answer your question #1 overall QB since ’80 so the last 35 (Semi-modern NFL)years. They hit about 2/3 of the time. I’m not saying they are superstars but good solid QB in the league for many years.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:08 pm
bucs don’t need the thug Winston as the face of our nfl team ..Draft the best qb ….M .M.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:09 pm
have the rare once-in-30-years chance of solving this issue for maybe a decade, perhaps for 15 years, and there is still a sect of Bucs fans who demand to trade down.
This is the essence of a straw man argument and the hyperbole is also over the top. Although I concede it’s sports and we expect lots of hyperbole.
Your post presumes this is the ONLY way to find a starting QB and/OR that Fameis is the next coming of Andrew Luck. Both of those view are subject to legitimate disagreement. You could be right. You could just as easily be wrong. It’s not near the slam dunk you present as is evidence by several posters above me.
Nobody disagrees we need a QB. The disagreement comes in where to find him. Just because there are people who do not believe either Fameis Jaboo or Marcus is not worth a #1 pick does not make them crazy or even wrong. The’ve all listed very valid reasons why trading down makes sense.
My choices in order would be 1.)MAR-cus 2.)Fameis Jaboo 3.) Trade down.
If the Bucs brain trust makes a convincing argument for any of these choices I’ll support that decision.
YES by all means we need a QB. But there are plenty of ways to get one. not just the #1 pick in the draft.
Just to make my point let me use an extreme example. If Mike Glennon was the top QB coming out this year would you use the #! pick on him simply because we NEED a QB?
No I’m not saying Glennon will be btter than Fameis Jaboo or Marcus but it’s certainly a possibility. Neither Fameis Jaboo or Marcus have thrown the first NFL pass yet and so many of us here simply accept as Gospel that these two can’t miss. Some people are simply not buying that gospel.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:09 pm
Reminder: Vinny Testaverde was the undisputed #1 overall pick leading into the ’87 draft. Bucs drafted him #1. He was surrounded by garbage and never succeeded here and never lived up to his #1 overall expectations. Just saying.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:22 pm
Stanglassman:
The argument is that if you have a top pick, and a QB is available who looks good, you should take him. I say that’s complete BS, that more good QBs are found later in the draft – and that taking a guy with a top pick in no way means he will be of any help to your team at all.
OK, so if we go back to 1980 as you suggest, we can add all of 5 QBs to the original list
(again, these are QBs taken with a top 5 overall pick)
Elway, McMahon, Aikman, McNair & Bledsoe
I wouldn’t qualify Jim Everett as a franchise QB, but even if you throw him into this list, there is always the following QBs taken between 1980 and 1998 who were taken AFTER pick #10
Neil Lomax, Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Dan Marino, Jeff Hostetler, Boomer Esiason, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Mark Rypien, Chris Miller, Rich Gannon, Don Majkowski, Neil O’Donnell, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Trent Green, Jake Plummer & Matt Hasselbeck.
Sure-thing QBs only come around once in 20 years (usually) – like Elway & Luck. With other prospects, you are taking as big a chance with a guy picked first overall as you are with a guy you take in the third round. Bucs have to absolutely be sure they can make it work with Winston or Mariota, otherwise, they would be smarter to trade down and wait for a QB they can develop. You are more likely to find a franchise QB in the middle-to-late first (or second round) as you are with a first overall pick.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
JA-mus.
That was easy.
March 11th, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Chip Kelly is smart, he knows Mariota won’t last after the 1st pick.
MARCUS
MARCUS
MARCUS
#MariotaorBUST
March 11th, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Ya know what I think is funny. I think after Mariota’s pro day he’s going to drop like a rock in the draft.
The MM lovers will just be sitting there in awe at what’s transpiring on draft day with their jaws dropped as MM drops.
Yes that’s what I see playing out…
March 11th, 2015 at 4:59 pm
87, check out the Walter Football mock draft database
Since 3/9 there have been 28 mock drafts added. 27 of them have us taking Jameis.
I don’t wish it on him because he seems like a nice enough guy (although I don’t know him so he could be the biggest a-hole alive), but with the Jets nabbing Fitzpatrick and the Rams getting Foles I could see Mariota dropping…quite a bit….and possibly to a spot where Kelly could still move up to get him
March 11th, 2015 at 5:08 pm
“Since 3/9 there have been 28 mock drafts added. 27 of them have us taking Jameis.”
Wow. Ya know fans are going to tell you that those mocks are meaningless. Especially the fans that want MM.
They might even hold out until the commish goes to the podium. Oh well.
Each day that goes by I feel more and more confident pick will be Winston.
March 11th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
That was comical to read.
Glennon also underthrows the deep ball, doesn’t have any fire in his belly, doesn’t seem to inspire his teamates and is unaware of where the 1st down marker is on 4th down.
He had his chance to be “the guy” last year and blew it.
Your argument is flawed.
If either of those teams had a decent QB, chances are they wouldn’t be drafting as high as they are now.
Also, when perceived BPA meets glaring need, you take that player.
If the top rated player in the draft was a 3tech DT, would you draft him, even though we have McCoy?
lol.. i thought about posting this same thing in another thread.
Everyone was saying, “if Chip wants to trade for him, he’s got to be that good. we should take him.”
Now that it’s been rumored that a division rival might want Winston, all of a sudden its, “yeah, lets not take Winston and take Brees instead.”
These are the same people that complained that L&L spent too much money on the first day of FA last year, but are now complaining that the Bucs didn’t sign any “splash” players this year.
smh. whats the point. No use in arguing anymore. Rather just wait for the draft so it can be all behind us.
Thug: the new N-word.
So let me ask you this:
If the people that get paid to make this decision and whose jobs and livelihoods of their families is on the line; if they determine that the best prospect is Jameis, does that mean they are wrong and you are right? Will you still support the team or will you become a fan of [insert other team here]?
That is until they see one mock with MM to the Bucs.
March 11th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
@JOE
We know the pick is Jameis. Enough with the Winston articles we know the bucs are trying to gauge interests of the fans. It only can do more harm than good at this point because Winston’s haters consistently are out in full force. Winston’s real fans like myself don’t even bother anymore because its no argument
March 11th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
I believe what most of the experts believe and that is Jameis is one of those QBs that only appear in the draft every 5 or 10 years. Marcus is a good QB (*Alex Smith)and any other year he maybe the top QB but Jameis is the best to come out since Luck and the Bucs would be fools not to grab them up.
I encourage anyone who didn’t see the MM VS JW breakdown/comparison on Bucs Nation to check it out.
March 11th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
I honestly hope he is, Stanglassman, IF the Bucs take him (and I hope he is a complete bust if another team takes him), but no breakdowns or comparisons by the *experts* will convince me that taking him is more than a 50/50 shot, at best.
Like I say, Lovie & Licht are the ones who need to be impressed, it’s their jobs on the line, not yours or mine (or any of the experts).
March 11th, 2015 at 5:44 pm
Fair enough jp4. All of the picks, regardless of position come with a risk. I think the chances of MM becoming a very good long term QB in the NFL at 60% and JW @ 85% with injury and maturity being the major factors in both of them respectively. Though Jameis’s ceiling is much higher.
* One of the most interesting points on that BN breakdown was the guy believes the Bucs are a playoff team if they sure up a few key positions mainly OL and QB.
March 11th, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Celly exactly….if all the mocks were saying it was MM it would be a different story and they’d have meaning to them, but since it’s Jameis. It means nothing.
March 11th, 2015 at 6:18 pm
iamkingsu Says:
March 11th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
“Winston’s real fans like myself don’t even bother anymore because its no argument.”
Ha ha ha yep why bother anymore.
Stanglassman Says:
March 11th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
“I believe what most of the experts believe and that is Jameis is one of those QBs that only appear in the draft every 5 or 10 years.”
I believed that long before he ever declared for the draft, since 2013 as a matter of fact. Then people wonder why I’m so ga ga over this kid.
March 11th, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Ay-nus! Ay-nus! Ay-nus!
wait did i get it wrong?
nope got it right.
March 11th, 2015 at 6:28 pm
lovie is a defense wins championships kind of guy. WELCOME TO TAMPA MR.WILLIAMS.
March 11th, 2015 at 6:51 pm
Some of us in the trade down crowd do so as not all of us are sold on either qb being worthy of that selection. I don’t believe either is thus the the value isn’t there. The NFL continues to gamble on qb’s in early rounds regardless of their ability to adjust to the pro game.
March 11th, 2015 at 7:00 pm
@zam lmfao- too funny!
March 11th, 2015 at 7:56 pm
The good news for the MM crowd is, in the last 76 mock drafts all taken in the month of March of 2015. Mariota is beating Williams as the number 1 choice to be selected by the margin of 3-1! Now for the bad news. The final totals of those 76 mock drafts predicting who the number 1 overall choice will be are:
Winston > 72
Mariota > 03
Williams > 01
Jame-is- WIN-A-TON!
March 11th, 2015 at 7:57 pm
Not if he doesn’t skip baseball. All we need is to draft him then lose him after two seasons to tommy john surgery and a wasted arm
March 11th, 2015 at 8:32 pm
It’s actually not that tough a concept (trade down)…Bucs need improved pass rush to make the defense click. The Bucs need a lot of O line help to keep any QB off the IR. They have been rather quiet in FA so far leading some of us to see the writing on the wall…aka the Bucs intend to use the draft to fix these issues. Besides I’ll wager the guy you’re calling “halfway decent” (Hackenberg) will be a better pro QB then either Mariota or Winston, so I’m OK with trading back this year to draft heavy on D line and O line this year while adding picks in next years draft to move up and make Hackenberg a Buc IF Glennon doesn’t get it done this year.
March 11th, 2015 at 8:41 pm
P’cola Buc …what did you get for a response from the usual crowd for that post?
Crickets.
March 11th, 2015 at 9:21 pm
I don’t believe Chip when he says he was offered a 1st today for Bradford, I also don’t believe him when he says he’s no longer interested in Mariota.
He’s a liar. A fast talking liar. You know he’s lying when his lips are moving. I learned a long time ago not to believe anything these coaches say.
March 11th, 2015 at 9:39 pm
Tampabaybucfan Says:
March 11th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
@bucrightoff
I agree….this could mean that Kelly knows Mariota won’t drop to 2,6 or 10….where he would have a shot at Mariota.
The deal from 20 to 1 was always extremely unlikley because the Bucs want a QB and wouldn’t trade past #2.
You agree that it could mean what you typed supra?
March 11th, 2015 at 10:51 pm
@jp4
You’re completely missing the fact that Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Cutler, (not so much Flacco—but maybe to an extent) were taken at a time when QBs aren’t valued nearly as high as they are now. Take Rodgers coming out of Cal, Cutler out of Vandy, Roethlisberger coming out of Miami OH, etc, and put them in this draft, and they’re surefire top five picks. Wilson, Brady, Romo are outliers. For every QB gem that comes out of the middle rounds I can give you hundreds (LITERALLY) that amounted to nothing.