Offensive Linemen Will Be There
February 5th, 2015
Jim Miller of SiriusXM NFL Radio explains solid offensive linemen will be drafted after Day 1.
The biggest argument the Woody Hayes disciples offer for trading the first overall pick (and passing on a quarterback. UH-gen!) is that the Bucs’ offensive line is such a miserable lot.
No argument there.
Gutting an allegedly overrated offensive line last offseason probably turned out to be the biggest blunder the Bucs made all last year.
They filled in the holes with players they thought were superior. But the Bucs shat the bed with those moves, as no less than two of the starters jettisoned had strong seasons for their new teams. Rather than improving the offensive line, the plan blew up in their face.
Joe contends that with proper scouting, good offensive linemen will be there in the second round, and next year in the middle of the first round. A good quarterback? Pppfffttt.
Jim Miller agrees with this line of thinking. The former NFL quarterback with the Steelers and Bears, and current co-host of “Movin’ the Chains” with Pat Kirwan, heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio, as well as the voice of Michigan State football and a Big Ten Network analyst, Miller noted how three 2014 playoff teams, including the Super Bowl champs, started rookie offensive linemen drafted after the first round.
“You look at other teams,” Miller told Joe last week in Phoenix. “Look at how Green Bay got by with Corey Linsley who is a rookie (center) from Ohio State. You look at (center) Travis Swanson (third round from Arkansas) with the Detroit Lions who is a rookie. Even with the Patriots, Bryan Stork is a rookie who they drafted (fourth round from Florida State) at the center position and he [started] Super Bowl XLIX. I am with you. There will be quality offensive linemen still there if they want to pluck them in the second-, third-, fourth round, that can still be very productive players depending on the scheme the Bucs will be running.”
Joe would be alright if the Bucs drafted offensive linemen with every selection after Jameis Winston.
More often than not, drafting an offensive lineman in the first round is a smart move. Not this year. Not with the first overall pick. Not when you need a quarterback worse than Joe needs a cold beer on a steamy July Friday afternoon. There is no Orlando Pace out there.
Besides, until or unless this team drafts a franchise quarterback, you know, with the No. 1 pick this spring, this team is going nowhere. This year, drafting an offensive lineman with that pick — or trading down to draft linemen — would be downright dumb.
February 5th, 2015 at 10:14 am
If don’t draft a QB we will be losers for another 10 years.
February 5th, 2015 at 10:19 am
If you draft the wrong QB we will be losers for another 10 years and Lovie and crew will be sent packing!
February 5th, 2015 at 10:19 am
Name the first round QB picks of the last 10 years and which ones have performed as a starter on a post season team. I don’t know the answer and I’m too lazy to look it up.
I don’t disagree with drafting a QB first, but I think expectations need to be tempered. The facts don’t support first round draft picks being that sucessful, especially in the first few seasons.
Luck is the one exception I can think of wthout cracking google open.
February 5th, 2015 at 10:21 am
Jameis Winston is coming Tampa!
February 5th, 2015 at 10:28 am
It’s supply and demand. You grab the QB now because (hopefully) we will not be in a position to draft one next year and they are impossible to get in FA. You pick up OLs along the way. This is not a one year rebuild. If the world was ending next year, then maybe you draft an OL and hope Glennon can pull something out of his posterior. Since I’m praying it’s not, lets pick the most valuable position this year and go from there.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:01 am
Everything starts up front. Why grab only the solid or adequate guys when you can grab the very best ones? Bucs need some dominators up front. Bucs drafted 2 mid/late round o-linemen last year and they both stink. Grab the very best linemen you can since there is not a franchise QB in this draft
February 5th, 2015 at 11:06 am
it’s gonna be DE, DT, LB, QB, WR, RB then OL
follow the same model from last year eh…..meaning completely different from what should be done lol
February 5th, 2015 at 11:07 am
We should have kept Penn, Larson and Zuttah… I was fine letting go of Davin Joseph as injuries and age has diminished his abilities…
Also, not drafting a lineman with our third round pick was the work of a total moron…
February 5th, 2015 at 11:07 am
I still think it was coaching and the Browns of all teams, cast offs. Better line coaching, maybe when last year rooks could develop. In other news, Sapp is available to coach the d-line…lol, before someone takes me seriously
February 5th, 2015 at 11:08 am
The fact is that the Bucs HAVE to draft a QB. Free agency won’t get you one and we’re tired of the backup retreads.
So, draft Winston or Mariota, and have the balls to play them immediately. You are nuts to say draft him and sit him. Let him learn Koetter’s system, as he goes. It may have some ups and downs, but McCown only produced downs. Can it be any worse?
From that point on, I don’t care if we stockpile #1 pick QB’s for the next 5 years in a row. We haven’t had a top notch franchise QB in our entire history. It’s time to bite the bullet and go get one that can make the difference year after year after year.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:10 am
@Nick
Exactly! !!
February 5th, 2015 at 11:11 am
@Mr. Patrick
Many, MANY people disagree with you that there are no franchise QBs in this draft.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:14 am
On offensive linemen. Consider that picking at the top of the second round, we should have one of the top 2 guards available. By that time 4 or 5 tackles will already be taken. So I say let’s plan ahead. Get a really good tackle in free agency, draft a top notch guard and then look at developmental tackles, guards or centers later in the draft.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:21 am
Nick Says:
February 5th, 2015 at 10:28 am
It’s supply and demand. You grab the QB now because (hopefully) we will not be in a position to draft one next year and they are impossible to get in FA.
______________________________________________________________
Thing is, I think there’s about a 50% chance the Bucs are back in the top 5 of the draft again next year, so there’s a pretty decent chance they’ll be in position to draft one again next year. People are somehow underselling how bad this team is, a new QB at best takes them to 6 wins. Deeply, deeply flawed team that has a lot of work before it can contend.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:25 am
Make a Trade with the Jets and pick up Brandon Scherff with the first pick.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:27 am
@bucrightoff
So you would gamble on picking a QB with a 50% shot next year as opposed to a 100% opportunity this year?
NTM.. the best case scenario for a rookie QB is the playoffs, as evidenced by the last decade.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:28 am
@ Mt Tom
since 2004
28 QB’s drafted in the 1st Rd
12 have started a playoff game
3 starters have won SB (Flacco,E.Manning, Ben Roethlisberger)
2 won multiple SB (Manning, Roethlisberger)
February 5th, 2015 at 11:47 am
@ Nick
And many, MANY people agree with me. Just because you may be the top 2 QB’s in a very weak QB class does not make you great.
Just because a mule outruns a goat does not make him a thoroughbred
February 5th, 2015 at 11:55 am
You’re missing a key component Nick: these are flawed QBs available. So “100% chance” is 100% to make the pick, but both these QBs are classic 50/50 QBs (50% good player, 50% bust). This is not Andrew Luck, these are guys who need time to develop. Jameis can’t even read a LB dropping into coverage and who knows about Mariota? Neither of these guys is even the best player available in this draft.
The bigger point is this is a horrible team that needs a lot of work. Any rookie playing behind anything that resembles the line play we had last year is 95% likely to bust and become David Carr pt. 2. Aaron Rodgers couldn’t succeed behind that kind of line play, how is a rookie? 50% in being in the top 5, I’d say its 90% they’re in the top 10 again. Next year profiles to be a better year to get a QB anyways, deeper prospect pool.
February 5th, 2015 at 11:55 am
If the Bucs play smart there are some really good olineman in free agency. Why they gave a huge contract to Ant Collins is beyond me. You all know who I want them to sign and it would be a smart move.
BTW Josh Mccown was the biggest blunder not just last season but the last 10 years!
February 5th, 2015 at 12:06 pm
@Mr. Patrick
The strength of the class has nothing to do with the strength of the individual. If it were a 1 QB class, that would be fine since we have the number 1 pick. Many experts believe that Jameis holds-up to or is better than almost every QB drafted this decade. He’s not surefire but are we really waiting for that magical day that Luck, Manning, Elway presents himself? 40 years and it has yet to happen. I’ll take a 50/50 shot on him being special than a 100% chance that we would draft a special OT. The disparity between the values of those positions warrants taking a chance on a QB. QBs equal wins. OTs don’t.
February 5th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
@bucrightoff
The “David Carr’s career was destroyed by a bad offensive line” argument is asinine. Carr was just a bad QB who held on to the ball too long (and probably had a bad line, tough crap). Regardless, the fact people keep bringing this up as the only example to not draft a QB until the line is in place is absurd. Aaron Rodgers has played with terrible Olines and has made the playoffs. So has every other relevant QB.
February 5th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
@ Nick
Thank you for making my point for me. When you are coming off of a 2-14 season and have only 6 wins in the last 2 years, you don’t gamble, take a chance, roll the dice, go 50/50, venture a risk or take a shot with the #1 pick in the draft. That kind of thinking gets you to 2-14
February 5th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
I think Jameis’ odds of success are much higher than 50/50. 50/50 refers to any QB drafted in the first round becoming an above average talent.
Risk takers are the people that succeed in life.
Hypothetical: I’ll give you Joe Thomas straight up or you get to flip a coin for Peyton Manning?
February 5th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
If Philly gives us a King’s Ransom and we get Nick Foles plus a bunch of draft picks, we would be fools to pass that up.
February 5th, 2015 at 1:30 pm
Since you’re too lazy to research your own question:
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Joe Flacco
Matt Ryan
Aaron Rodgers
Mathew Stafford
Alex Smith
Mark Sanchez
Tim Tebow
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin III
So I guess now I’ll wait for you to come back with some other argument that you’ll use to try to prove your point….
We had one, but the old coach didn’t want him…
I’m also willing to bet that we will trade back into the 1st round and grab someone that we wanted that starts to slip towards teh end of the round. Might as well get that guy on a 5 year contract vs a 4.
You’re one of those “there’s always next year” type of guys. So if we suck this year and there is no worthy QB prospect next year, I guess we should wait til the following year again and try to grab a QB? At some point, you have to just roll the dice and run with the guy you believe in. You don’t get the #1 pick every year. Why blow it this time?
Also, i posted in another thread a compared Lucks first 2 years to Winston’s 2 years. You’d be surprised at how similar they are…
But I’m sure you’ll ignore those FACTS.
Except we ALL know that you (and i’m talking about you specifically as well as the general “you”) would be LIVID if Foles turned out bad and Winston/Mariota turned out to be great. You’d blame Lovie for not just sticking to his guns and taking one of the QBs. Then, you’d scream “FIRE LOVIE” and then threaten to abandon your fandom towards the team.
February 5th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Why haven’t the Bucs already signed Jameis? This would get the fan base fired up.
February 5th, 2015 at 2:01 pm
I am sure that Koetter and his merry men are doing their due diligence on QBs including the ones we have.
I don’t care what they do as long as we are a winner.
February 5th, 2015 at 2:26 pm
“Joe would be alright if the Bucs drafted offensive linemen with every selection after Jameis Winston.”
That’s overkill of course – but your premise is sound Joe.
If we draft Winston #1 and then take the best OL players on their board with 3 out of the 5 picks at #s 2,3,4 5,5 – then L&L will have done a great job attempting to shore our biggest weaknesses on Offense via the best means which is through the draft.
February 5th, 2015 at 2:58 pm
Nick – man you are just talking too much sense for these numbskulls who say there isn’t a good enough QB prospect to take the risk of drafting. And yet they keep coming back with the same fearful argument that could easily be made EVERY SINGLE YEAR unless you are the Colts in 2012 or the Broncos in ’83.
Lucks and P. Mannings and Elways who you can project with 90% certainty will be a great NFL QB prior to drafting them – only come along once every 10-15 years.
Well if that is the standard – then based on what Winston put on tape over his 2 years at Florida State and what his measurable physical attributes are and especially based on the eyeball factor of quite obviously having “IT” like none other of his class while playing in College – not to mention the 27-1 record with 5 come from behind wins last year and a 7-0 record when the outcome was within 7 points….
Jameis Winston has at least an 80+% chance of being a good NFL QB and a somewhat less but still reasonable chance to be a great NFL QB. I’ll take those odds vs the guys we currently have on the roster any day of the week.
Its all there to see if you just watch him play. Put on the tape and watch the guy play- and then STFU about there not being a potential franchise QB coming out this year….
And Winston aside, if he wasn’t coming out this year – then Mariota would be the best QB prospect to have come out in the last 3 years.
So just QUIT saying there is not a franchise QB in this draft. If there’s not a great prospect to be a franchise QB between these 2 – then great QB prospects only come along once every 10-15 years.
February 5th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Trade Glennon to Cleveland for their 2 round pick. Draft Winston at #1 now with 2 second round picks we address the Oline and Dline. And we still have rounds 3-7 to fix the other holes being it’s suppose to be a deep draft at the positions the Bucs really need
February 5th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Again, there’s no way Winston goes to Tampa. No way. Come on now, use your brain for a minute.
Say hello-ta to Mariota!
You can male all the excuses for him you want. the Bucs have made some dumb moves in the past, this would be colossal – like Brick Tamland dumb.
February 5th, 2015 at 5:33 pm
@Walter…
Will you stop being a fan if you’re wrong?
February 5th, 2015 at 5:52 pm
QB #1 and the rounds #2-4 better be OL-DE-OL in some order or MLB if there is on that fits the sytem.
February 5th, 2015 at 8:14 pm
If the Bucs go qb with the #1 pick (I hope they do) then they should be able to pick up a top tier G or C with the 2nd round pick which will be the 34th overall. After that the Bucs should target MLB, DE and more OL help by simply taking the best players on their board. A lot of depth in this draft so it looks like the Bucs really would like to have the 2nd overall pick of 4th round again but they unloaded that to the Pats along with a decent TE for Mankins who played well below expectations…..
February 7th, 2015 at 12:45 am
It’s another reason I think the Bucs are going to pick Marriota – the offensive line philosophy will support some version of spread/zone blocking. That will put a premium on adding offensive linemen that not too many other NFL teams are looking for…
As Colin Kaepernick has proven, the offense can be made to work in the NFL with a special athlete, surrounded by a-typical players who are technically proficient in a zone-read/air raid spread offensive philosophy.
C’mon @joe, read the tea leaves – just makes sense.
February 7th, 2015 at 12:48 am
If you can leverage success with players that are not yet highly sought-after – that makes them cheaper than what everyone else in the NFL wants…because of this, you may be able to find offensive lineman in later rounds (especially if you have the highest pick in every round…).
I’m not saying it GOING to work, I’m asserting that this is the offensive concept Lovie thought about that entire season he spent WATCHING the NFL on TV…