Not Just Turnovers
February 7th, 2015
Joe always is suspicious of stats. Aside from the fact stats give Joe flashbacks to nuns with pointers and grade school math classes, Joe learned in high school that anyone can twist numbers any way they like in order to prove a point.
Some stats are nice to shed light on things. Other times, Joe wonders what is trying to be proven.
Numbers cruncher Thomas Bassinger of the Tampa Bay Times broke out his calculator, and in his digging found Josh McCown wasn’t just a turnover machine for the Bucs; he was actually just a bad quarterback.
But J McCown’s overall accuracy % (excludes drops, throw aways, spikes, etc.) was 3rd lowest (67.7) among QBs to attempt 300 passes. #Bucs
— Thomas Bassinger (@tbassfootball) February 6, 2015
Of course, the first question Joe had was, how can one decipher what was a “throw away” and what was a garden variety incompletion from McCown?
Bassinger noticed McCown had similar accuracy rates on deep passes Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger.
Right there is twisting of numbers Joe referenced previously. While accurate, it implies McCown was in the same category as Roethlisberger and Manning. Anyone who watched McCown last season knows better — and considers how the Bucs had receivers who could consistently out-rebound defensive backs for jump balls.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:02 am
With the Tampa Bay Times financially on the brink, shouldn’t the “numbers cruncher” be figuring out how to keep his job rather than waste his time on football?
February 7th, 2015 at 9:15 am
“…garden variety incompletion…” Hilarious one liner right there!
February 7th, 2015 at 9:17 am
The stat that really matters is 2-14. The advanced stats on players might mean something to the scouts and coaches but the end result is what it is. I recall EJ Biggers was rated high in certain categories among CBs a few years ago. It didn’t translate to him being among the top corners on the field.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:19 am
I was a huge McCown supporter at the beginning of the season. But, numbers will not tell you how uncomfortable he looked on every snap. They wont tell you that the offense looked leaderless out there. They wont tell you that on almost every drop back he was running for his life. Very little did McCown or Glennon get to read through their progressions. Numbers dont matter on Sundays. The whole offense failed! From poor QB play. Bad play calling. No running game. Dropped passes. And a weak ass Oline. I truly believe McCown is not the answer, but come on, it wasnt all his fault. Good guy, but I dont want to see him in a Bucs uni next season
February 7th, 2015 at 9:20 am
But, But Lovie said he was the best chance to win…
The Number 1 mystery of 2014 is how Lovie kept his job!!!
February 7th, 2015 at 9:26 am
“Anyone who watched McCown last season knows better”
That’s not so Joe. Some blame McCown and Glennon’s woes on the O-line.
Perhaps those people never watched them play, or their last names are Magoo or Wonder.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:28 am
….and McCown was crying. Yes crying.
Let’s not take Winston I’d rather have a QB that cries at the podium. Damn.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:41 am
It won’t matter who you put under center if you don’t fix that paper towel strong offensive line. I swear sometimes we would have been better off with a roll of Bounty in each position, at least McCown could have wiped himself off better when he picked himself off the turf.
You put Winston/Mariota behind that putrid O-Line, you’ll see a pool started on how fast that QB goes on IR.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:41 am
Sick of this $hit Says:
I was a huge McCown supporter at the beginning of the season. But, numbers will not tell you how uncomfortable he looked on every snap.
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This. I was hoping McCown was going to be a decent game manager in Tedford’s offense. Mixing up the plays and having a big enough arm to make the occasional deep throw.
We got happy feet instead. He looked more like a rookie with the jitters to me.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:49 am
And don’t get me started on “in over his head” Arroyo’s stupefying play selections. Never in my life would I ever have dreamed of wanting the offensive juggernaut that was Mike Shula’s vanilla Buc Offense. Or regretting the firing of Sam Wyche…yeah, it was that miserable!
Last season’s offense was destined to fail the minute Tedford went down. And no QB, let alone a career backup who always had an OC to rely on, would succeed while mired in virtual quicksand.
Getting our new OC is the single biggest change for the Bucs, and a marked improvement is in the works. It can’t possibly get worse than that shambles we had last season. I for one, look forward to a new brand of Bucs offense, with a shiny new QB in the wings learning and prepping to be our perennial All Pro, leading us to Championships.
February 7th, 2015 at 9:56 am
McCown’s run with Chicago was a fluke but it’s also easily explainable: he was the clear backup and got to play with house money. He could play free because at worst he was back where he started, the bench. When he was named starter without even a competition, the pressure on him was different than when he came in with Chicago. He always was playing for his job. Should have had a competition or named Glennon starter and maybe he comes in as a backup again and lights it up playing free.
But when you look at his historical numbers, they are really awful outside that fluke 5 game stretch. But hey he turned 5 games into $10 million so good for him, if bad for us.
February 7th, 2015 at 10:23 am
Most of the MGM haters here point to that ONE play where instead of selling out to pick up another 2-3 yards he went out of bounds. I understand that sentiment, and in fact agree I was pretty disgusted when I saw it. But it was ONE play and the implication is that MGM lacks cojones. But that’s clearly not true. He stood in time and time again, he was too slow to escape LOL, and took plenty of blows.
McCown on the other hand seemed to choke. And by that I mean he clearly played below his physical skill set and made horrible decisions borne of a panic that only he can explain.
I suspect that being the class act he is McCown felt an overwhelming NEED to not let Lovie down after Lovie basically put his reputation on the line for McCown. Sadly the harder he tried the worse McCown played. Nice guy but that is a classic definition of a choker!
February 7th, 2015 at 10:28 am
I’ll take everybody back to last year….before the season started….There were some who were skeptical about McCown…..mostly those who thought we should be drafting a QB or Glennon supporters…..we knew he was probably a 2-year plugiin.
None of us thought he was be anywhere close to as bad as he was…..
Certainly the awful playcalling and disaster at Oline had a huge impact on both QBs…how much vs their ineptitude….we’ll probably never know with McCown…as for Glennon we may get to see him with a decent offense…..
February 7th, 2015 at 10:40 am
Im not gonna put it all on the QB, but what I really hated about Mccown last year was that on the rare occasions that he did find time in the pocket, he still stood there with the football twittling his feet just waiting to get sacked
February 7th, 2015 at 12:53 pm
Repost from the archives, after one of the preseason games. Please ignore!
tickrdr Says:
August 11th, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Finally got to see the game yesterday. A few points:
First, I agree that Josh McCown had very little protection from the OL, but there have been articles quoting Pro Football Focus, as well as several comments claiming that McCown was one of the best QB’s in the league “against pressure”. Where was that McCown? Two fumbles and a “pick 6″ in only four series!
Secondly, on the “pick 6″ throw, I counted at least four seconds before the throw, so at least on that one he had at least some time.
Thirdly, I thought that Collins at LT had the worst performance of any offensive lineman, and on the sack/fumble, he was easily the first player to the ball, but could not secure it??
tickrdr
February 7th, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Nobody had a problem with Russell Wilson tossing the ball up to a height advantaged WR against a short DB. But that stopped when Bill put Browner on him in the SB.
The whole offense stunk last year except for the WR’s and it all had one common denominator, Marcus Arroyo.
The young man was simply outmatched.
.
February 7th, 2015 at 8:30 pm
yup
February 7th, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Turnovers are events that happen in most football games.
You can’t coach people not to commit turnovers, just like you can’t coach people to force turnovers.
You can only coach techniques that minimize the likelihood of turnovers on offense, and maximize the likelihood of turnovers on defense.
But generally, turnovers are events that are beyond predictability and control.
The ultimate cop-out for a coach is to go into a game saying “We have to win the turnover battle.”
Any coach that says that might as well be saying, “We haven’t really game-planned well enough, so it’s pretty much a crap-shoot at this point.”
February 10th, 2015 at 5:59 am
87ForJameisNOMariota Says:
“Anyone who watched McCown last season knows better”
That’s not so Joe. Some blame McCown and Glennon’s woes on the O-line.
Perhaps those people never watched them play, or their last names are Magoo or Wonder.
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Yeah? Watch Winston work wonders behind our oline. Maybe we should draft Mariota. I hear he can run fast. smh