Move On From Suh
February 25th, 2015
Pass.
Joe isn’t sure if some folks are just mentally trained to follow football focused solely on fantasy football, or if they recognize a name and immediately think the player is a must-get because, ‘Hey, I recognize the name.’
Joe is going with the latter. Hey, if the guy has a known name, he has to be great, right?
This brings Joe to the folly of those who pine for Ndamukong Suh. Yes, he is an impressive, impressive player, but maybe not better than Gerald McCoy.
Another man who thinks this Suh talk is for those who don’t like Combine talk (or worse, hate winning, thus hate quarterbacks) is Buccaneers.com multimedia maven Scott Smith. Being very careful not to mention Suh at all, Smith thinks Suh playing for the Bucs is, well, fantasy football, in so many words without getting hit for tampering (yes, Smith is a Bucs employee so he has to follow NFL guidelines).
I can say this, however, because it has nothing to do with any specific players but rather with what the Buccaneers do and do not need: I don’t think that position is a primary area of need. I think the Bucs can form a very good DT duo without breaking the bank to get one of the few talents comparable to McCoy. Look at the great Bucs defense from the mid-90s to the mid-00s: Brad Culpepper, a one-time 10th-round pick who came to Tampa as a waiver claim, did quite well when paired up with Warren Sapp. Later, when first-round pick Anthony McFarland was lost to IR in the middle of the 2002 Super Bowl season, undrafted Chuck Darby stepped in next to Sapp and also fared very well. The point is, playing next to McCoy should be enough to make a good DT look like a very good one. A full year of health for both McCoy and 2014 signee Clinton McDonald could very well result in something very similar.
Joe actually thinks the Bucs defensive tackles, sans GMC, are underrated. Akeem Spence gets better every year and Clinton McDonald is a seasoned, solid vet.
No, the Bucs have way too many holes to spend wads of cash plugging a hole that does not exist. Signing Suh after Team Glazer broke the bank with GMC would be a classic Matt Millen move: trying to strengthen a strength and ignoring holes.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Yeah they recognize the name and think that’s the magic missing piece that’s been standing in the way of our success.
Might be true with a QB.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
Don’t they play basically the same position? So they would not even be on the field together.
Or am I completely wrong about that?
February 25th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
“the Bucs have way too many holes than trying to spend wads of cash plugging a hole that does not exist”
That is truly the bottom line Joe.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
Joe i completely and totally disagree with you’re assessment. If the bucs have a chance at having 2 dominant forces in the middle of their defense they have to do it. You my friend are totally wrong on this one!!!
February 25th, 2015 at 5:15 pm
Per: Joe
February 25th, 2015 at 5:18 pm
*Per: Willie McGinest-3x Super Bowl Champion & Current NFL Network analyst
“It’s important to have an interior rush,”. “It collapses the pocket and it doesn’t allow the quarterbacks to step into their throws, which makes them inaccurate. As anoutside rusher, when you’re coming around the edge you want the quarterback to stay in that pocket. If there is no interior rush, it allows the quarterback to escape, to step into his throw or step up to avoid the outside pressure.”
*Per: J.J. Watt
“You can disrupt the quarterback just by causing pressure up the middle,” says Watt. “Whereas on the outside you really have to get to the quarterback to disrupt him.”
February 25th, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Its the nonexistence of DE’s that makes the Bucs D-line terrible.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:22 pm
@ luvmybucs i don’t know what the hell is wrong with the joe’s but they are way the hell out of line on this one. The bucs would truly have two unstoppable forces in the middle….smdh
February 25th, 2015 at 5:37 pm
Classic Matt Millen ..lol
Are you talking about DRAFTING (3) unproven Wide Receivers in a row?
SUH IS A PROVEN -And will be paid like so. Even though the following combinations asserted their dominance
(Jacksonville)
• LDT Marcus Stroud*
• RDT John Henderson*
(Minnesota)
• RDT Kevin Williams*
• NT Pat Williams*
(New England)
• RDE Richard Seymour*
• NT Vince Wilfork
• (Buffalo)
• LDT Marcell Dareus*
• RDT Kyle Williams*
(Carolina)
• RDT Kris Jenkins*
• LDT Brentson Buckner
(Baltimore)
• RDT Tony Siragusa
• LDT Sam Adams*
IMO, none of them could hold a stick to a combination of Suh & McCoy
February 25th, 2015 at 5:37 pm
I agree.
Akeem Spence showed solid improvement last year and McDonald was solid and steady all year. McCoy, when healthy is a beast in his own right and doesn’t need to play dirty like Suh to be great. Along with dirty comes a lot of stupid personal foul penalties at inopportune times.
Wish DE Goldson had shown as much improvement as Spence and hope he doesni’t fall to the wayside and obscurity like his first round bust of a pick brother who was drafted by the Jets.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:37 pm
200mil + on the dline? Good gawd! I’m all about Suh but that just doesn’t add up.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:39 pm
BTW, anyone squawking about picking up Suh as a FA is a true idiot which there is no shortage of out here.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:44 pm
@WS99
(Defensive Line Spending)
1 St. Louis Rams 10 $49,975,940 35.19%
2 Buffalo Bills 6 $34,445,000 23.81%
February 25th, 2015 at 5:48 pm
@DDneast…agreed
February 25th, 2015 at 5:48 pm
(3rd) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (8) players ($29,256,207) 20.45%
February 25th, 2015 at 5:50 pm
I have a lot of respect for those at Pewter Report, but come on bringing in Suh would be a complete waste of resources. For one they both can’t play the 3-technique at the same time and two we already have a more than competent and reliable NT in Clinton McDonald. A agree this isn’t fantasy football we are talking about this is the NFL, you know where there is a such thing as a salary cap.
It would be so much more wise to invest in areas in which we actually have a need and delegate such resources accordingly. I would take Greg Hardy over Suh any day and twice on Sunday. Also, we could use those funds for upgrading the OL, MLB, slot receiver, edge rush, safety, etc..
If L&L thought $16 M was too much to tie into one CB, then they sure as heck will think $25 M+ is too much to invest in one position. Get real…
February 25th, 2015 at 5:50 pm
@ddneast
He’s just tryna get a rise out of us-and It worked..lol
February 25th, 2015 at 5:50 pm
We can’t afford Suh. Move on.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:51 pm
A.J. Hawk just got released from the Packers. Possible replacement for Mason Foster?
February 25th, 2015 at 5:51 pm
@LUVMYBUCS
You just proved WS99’s point. You just tried to make up a comeback, but you failed by providing two teams that didn’t even make the playoffs.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:52 pm
A corner will never have same effect “ON THE GAME” –like a dominate interior pass rusher will.
February 25th, 2015 at 5:58 pm
Strengthening a strength is a luxury afforded to teams that don’t have gaping holes. DE, S, MLB, NB all are undoubtedly greater needs on defense… And then of course the stinking O-Line could stand a couple starter-quality players.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:00 pm
@lion
MY point is if you want to improve the pass rush you can w/ Suh. Of course we could afford it. Logan Mankins, Evan Dietrich-Smith, and Michael Koenen can replaced w/ premium drafts (Kicker off the streets-lol)
Buffalo failed on their 1st round QB. And the Rams 1st round QB can’t stay-But they don’t have a problem w/ harassing the QB.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:11 pm
@luv
Trust me when I tell you I would love to have Suh on the team but who the hell pays two 3techs 100mil each? It’s a stretch luv normally would have your back but this don’t add up.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
McDonald killed it last year. Bowers played dt better than de especially towards the end of the year and we have ghoslton too. I forgot about Spense who played okay I guess. As long as the ice cream man can stay healthy and off the IR we should be fine inside.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:18 pm
@WS99
Gonna have to take a rain check on this convo right now. But I will present a feasible solution later.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo doesn’t like Suh…..but Pablo likes country music…..especially Freddy Fender….Pablo like Johnny Cash and everytime he hears Suh it reminds me of Johnny’s song….A Boy Named Sue…..Pablo wonders which would make Ndamukong (Pablo hates that name) more angry….to be called Boy or Sue?”
February 25th, 2015 at 6:35 pm
Tbbf
I dare you to call him either one. He’s no McCoy. Don’t let him pull an EDS on you. Lmao
February 25th, 2015 at 6:44 pm
Really don’t care if Suh would mind being called Sue or not. The only time he would do anything about it is if yor already flat on your back or a QB that is a lot smaller than him.
He’s a real tough guy when he has that advantage.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:44 pm
Pay Suh, cut garbage, and bring on the nasty.
Could you imagine Suh and Winston in the fold. The “nasty” has arrived.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:47 pm
Ndamukong Suh…is not coming to Tampa.
February 25th, 2015 at 6:56 pm
@ WS99
You mean you dare Pablo not to call him names…..not TBBF….TBBF doesn’t call anybody names….
February 25th, 2015 at 7:03 pm
Suh would be the best love we can make in FA.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:04 pm
With the Bears switching over to a 3-4, what are the chances of us prying away Jared Allen for, say, Mike Glennon?
February 25th, 2015 at 7:05 pm
Sign Suh and you virtually guarantee a 1-1 matchup for he or GMC on any given play.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:16 pm
I’d be all for it but the cost/benefit could be best used elsewhere. We’ve got $25M wrapped up in McCoy and Johnson alone right now.
We still need 2 OL FA’s, a slot WR, MLB, CB, Nickel, RDE and a FS. Throw in a KR too.
Can’t draft for all the holes. Sorry.
What would frost me is if we sit on $25M of cap space though.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:37 pm
A bit off topic, but I just saw a TV sports report that said the Browns are interested in obtaining both McCown and Glennon. There goes our QB of the future, unless Lovie was telling the truth.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:39 pm
out of all positions to break the bank on, please not dt. Thats like the only position we don’t need to address besides running back. led the league in interior sacks. spend all the money that it would take to pay suh and get 3 new good lineman.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:43 pm
Iupati.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:53 pm
Cut Goldson and get the best Safety available.
February 25th, 2015 at 7:58 pm
dave Says:
February 25th, 2015 at 7:39 pm
“spend all the money that it would take to pay suh and get 3 new good lineman.”
EXACTLY THIS!!!
February 25th, 2015 at 8:06 pm
Sign Suh, then trade for Geno Atkins, Then the bucs will have the market cornerd for DT
February 25th, 2015 at 8:42 pm
Returner? Draft JJ Nelson….5th or 6th
February 25th, 2015 at 8:59 pm
Different position to talk about here. Jacoby Jones released from the Ravens. Go get him Lovie there’s your return guy…
February 25th, 2015 at 9:13 pm
Jacoby could also be our #3 rcv
February 25th, 2015 at 9:47 pm
OK……Im home from work now. Let the discussions commence.
February 25th, 2015 at 10:56 pm
Drop goldson n michael johnson that’s 8 mil a piece n likely a per year salary for suh.
February 25th, 2015 at 11:17 pm
@delson, agreed. If we could land Devin McCourty (assuming he doesnt get franchised by NE), and then land Greg Hardy, those would be huge upgrades to our D.
February 25th, 2015 at 11:24 pm
And for those who want to crucify Hardy, remember there’s more than just his accuser’s story….
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/greg-hardy-the-nfls-next-nightmare-20150225?page=2
February 25th, 2015 at 11:27 pm
Suh is a dirty player and a cheating maggot! We don’t need him!
February 26th, 2015 at 1:02 am
@luv
Better to draft williams than sign Suh.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:04 am
I remember the great McCoy vs Suh debates here on this website. People saying how soft McCoy was and how we needed a guy with attitude and played nasty like sapp…
February 26th, 2015 at 3:53 am
Say no to Suh, if he came here we would have 40 million invested in defensive tackle. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Give David his money, move on morons. We have the better DT.
February 26th, 2015 at 7:09 am
Right Off, biggest reason to get sth. like the Vikings had with the Williams-Wall:
>>> McCoy DISSAPPAIRS AFTER 3 DRIVES
>>> don´t disrespect taking away the run (good teams are usually good at running)
>>> improved pass rush >>improved coverage also
Lets face it, what´s possible?:
– cutting MJohnson by next year, Goldson too, or trades (hard) + increased sallary cap = Suh contract no problem
>>> one hell of D-line
>>> d-line pay would be reasonable (right now overpayd)
>> d-line makes coverages better
>>> suh, even against double teams; very effective (disrupting backfield)
>>> McCoy DISSAPPAIRS AFTER 3 DRIVES
>>> give me another average DE and this should be one of the very best Dlines in the league – just like that – and that would be huge and woth every penny
especially:
in generall the Tampa2 D-lines are weaker against Run, but with suh in the middle..
(keeping Rotanial stuff and Sub-Packages/formations in mind also >> good flexibility and great talent wise)
True wrecking ball worth every penny
February 26th, 2015 at 8:51 am
i really like that jacoby jones idea.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:01 am
if you have 2 unblockable guys on the D Line you won’t have to blitz all season. if both are interior guys, average DEs will excel around them. why not pay suh elite DE money if his eliminates the requirement for an elite DE in this scheme?
February 26th, 2015 at 10:03 am
also, we are at least 4 years away from having to throw an elite contract at a QB. when it’s time to pay our #1 overall pick (keeping fingers crossed that he merits it), we can move on from either mccoy or suh’s contract.
February 26th, 2015 at 11:00 am
Dear. Bucs
i want you to sign ndamukong suh we should need his abillity an strenght an wisdom to make it to the playoffs .
February 26th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
The reason why it would make sense is that Suh is almost certainly going to keep up his quality play after you pay him. While many players are question marks, Suh would not be. In addition to this, two unblockable players next to each other would cause havoc on the inside of the line. No matter how you cut it, you have two guards and a center facing off against twin terrors. Sure, it would cost QB money, but with a QB getting a relatively cheap deal in the draft you can afford to take the chance to see if you could give every offensive coordinator nightmares for the next 4 years.
February 26th, 2015 at 6:06 pm
lovie went after one of the biggest free agents in a long time back when julius peppers hits the market and he had to have been thrilled with the results. suh is that same type of rare can’t miss all-pro hitting free agency, and if the bucs aren’t in the conversation it would be a tragedy. like i said before, QB won’t be a big ticket expense for at least 4 years, and 2 elite DTs means you can still be deadly with 2 average to above average DEs. the traditional big ticket contracts don’t stand in the way – one of the few advantages to being so bad at picking players for so long.