Forget Picking O-Line At No. 1
January 8th, 2015
Offensive linemen are important, but never forget the Bucs won a Super Bowl with the notorious Kenyatta Walker starting at right tackle
Joe knows the Bucs need to upgrade the offensive line. Hell, you could probably find two dozen Chinese nationalists who know this. A guy with a white cane could see this.
But even the dead know that the Bucs need a quarterback. Goodness gracious. What does it take for people to figure out if you don’t have a quarterback, you have no shot in today’s NFL? None!
Offering six thoughts about the Bucs, veteran sports columnist Gary Shelton, writing at GarySheltonSports.com, states the Tampa Bay braintrust needs to quit farting around with rejects, has-beens and never-beens and join the modern NFL — and for God’s sake pick whoever they feel is the best quarterback in the draft since they have the top pick.
Yeah, you can argue for Marcus Mariota, or you can argue for Jameis Winston. But if the playoffs proved nothing else, it’s how important the guy behind center is. Cam Newton beat Steve Lindley, Andrew Luck beat Andy Dalton. Evan Joe Flacco outplayed Ben Roethlisberger. Tony Romo came back to beat Matthew Stafford.
Okay, so neither Mariota or Winston grades out the way Andrew Luck did. But are either of them close to being, say, Joe Flacco? Flacco was remarkable with his efficiency as the Ravens beat the Steelers. After the game, John Harbaugh suggested that Flacco was the best quarterback in the NFL. Granted, few of us would agree, but Flacco was pretty darn good. Romo threw for fewer yards than his opponent, Matthew Stafford, but despite six sacks, he didn’t throw an interception. When you think about all the silly turnovers suffered this year by Josh McCown, such care is to be coveted.
Say all you want about the need for an offensive lineman, but it’s amazing how much better an average offensive line looks in front of an accomplished quarterback. No one ever shined about the OL in front of Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, di they? Slick quarterbacks demand less time to be efficient. Besides, there aren’t a lot of guys like Anthony Munoz who have declared for the draft.
Once again, Joe has never seen a left tackle march his team down the field 80 yards in crunch time for a go-ahead score.
Winning the trenches is important, of course, but it does not supersede the following: You. Need. A. Quarterback.
Shoot, the Bucs proved this in their one and only Super Bowl win. Their starting tackles were over-the-hill Lomas Brown (he never played another snap in the NFL after that Super Bowl) and the notorious walking penalty Kenyatta Walker.
Doesn’t exactly have the same ring to it as, say, Art Shell and Dan Dierdorf, does it?
A team can always load up on offensive linemen in future drafts when they are picking the middle of the pack or (hopefully) later, not to mention picking up decent offensive linemen in free agency — provided they pick the right ones (not Anthony Collins and Oniel Cousins).
January 8th, 2015 at 9:05 am
Kenyatta Walker would look like an All-Pro compared to some of the bums on last season’s offensive line, which was, in fact, very,very, very offensive!
January 8th, 2015 at 9:06 am
Anyone who wants to use the #1 pick for an Olineman needs to research Miami’s decision to draft Jake Long over Matt Ryan…. Not such a good idea, right?
January 8th, 2015 at 9:08 am
If love to have a guy like flacco. The guy is unbeleivably clutch! It just shows you how much of an unknown these college QB’s are.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:11 am
Roman Oben was the left tackle 🙂
January 8th, 2015 at 9:23 am
The only way we get an Olineman in this draft in round 1 if we trade down. In that case we might get 2….a qb & mlb in round 2, & a de & cb in round 3….
January 8th, 2015 at 9:25 am
damn joe! that morning cup o joe calendar girl is hawwwt! and has some toe to boot!
oh yeah, we need a QB
January 8th, 2015 at 9:25 am
With Winston you immediately compete in this division.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:31 am
if your drafting good talent you don’t need to wait years for the player to develop. see lavonte david or demar Dotson. the rage i’d feel if we drafted an offensive lineman with the first pick to protect josh mccown….lovie had a bad season but he’s not going to pick in the top 5 of the draft every year, he’s good enough just to be average middle of the pack team so if they don’t get a quarterback now they wont ever get one again until he’s fired
January 8th, 2015 at 9:32 am
Thank you bucco Brice. You are correct.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:38 am
Kenyetta Walker would be the stud of this O Line.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:39 am
Seattle is the defending SB champs and therefore until somebody beats them in the playoffs this year the best team in football.
This should be our model and perhaps Lovie is following it. I’ll give him 2015 to show me that’s his goal.
Seattle has been #1 in defense for the past two years. They have a 3rd round draft pick who came in and beat out a handpicked guy for QB. We do not need Andrew Luck or John Elway or any other “generational” or once in a lifetime player. Russell Wilson will be fine thank you.
And so we do not NEED Jameis Winston as the “FACE OF OUR FRANCHISE”!
It’s not about whether Winston is better than Mariota, it’s about whether Mariota has the talent of a Russell Wilson.
All the chatter from the Jameis lovers has included..he’s ready to play in the NFL because he comes from an NFL type offense in college. OK
What about being ready to be the “Face of the franchise”? Mariota is obviously more than ready while Jameis is clearly not yet ready. Can Jameis change his way. Of course ! Will he? That’s the multimillion dollar question.
Being the “Face of a franchise’ is not easy. If you’re a spiritual man like GMC it’s obviously easier. If you hang out at boys clubs and return to your roots and you already have been a superior face of your college program then it’s probably going to continue.
Before you Jameis lovers…JOE…go nuckin futs here just remember that it’s a lot..lot more than on field play for a “face of a franchise”. A Heisman trophy winner coming in to “save” a franchise is under tremendous scrutiny.
And so in 2016 when we’re celebrating reaching the Conference Championship with Jameis how will we feel when TMZ posts a video the night before the game of Jamies and some buds in a wild party…we used to call them orgies.
He may have done nothing illegal…he could pay women in Vegas legally and party all he wants. But will that pass the “face of the franchise” smell test.
How would you feel having that representation for your city?
January 8th, 2015 at 9:42 am
BTW I like Shelton but this is a flawed premise. There are perhaps as many as three franchise tackles in this draft. It would be stupid to spend the very top pick on one of them.
We take Mariota…we trade the 33rd pick (top 2nd rounder) for Glennon, draft picks..whatever…we only need to move up about a dozen spots to land one of those three franchise tackles.
We can have our cake and eat it too. And with Mariota on the team we can sleep at night without worrying what kind of embarrassing headline the “face of our franchise” is creating for the morning paper and BSPN.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:53 am
StPeteBucsFan…and what if you’re “face of the franchise” Mariota is an NFL bust, like I think he’s going to be?
It’s okay if he sucks because atleast he has good moral character???????
That would be fitting, take Mariota our franchise sucks anyways, might as well add another face to the rest of the suck.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:55 am
Mr. StPeteBucsFan, at no point in your incoherent rambling did you come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this chatroom is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
January 8th, 2015 at 9:56 am
Who the hell is Steve Lindley?
January 8th, 2015 at 10:16 am
Mike Golic just made a good point about Winston on Mike and Mike.
He said Winston will be forced to grow up because he will be surrounded by grown men.
He said that as Herbstreit, Corso, and both Mike’s said Jameis goes #1 overall to Tampa Bay.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:28 am
the bucs won super bowl XXXVII with brad Johnson.
he was drafted in the 9th round(not a misprint) pick number 227. all the names you mentioned in this article are 10 times better as QB’S.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:30 am
DallasBuc Says:
With Winston you immediately compete in this division.
________________________________________________
I concur.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:37 am
Jameis is junk. Mariota is mediocre.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:47 am
Geeze call me low football IQ, a troll, an idiot or whatever but I am still alive and see just fine, and with that said have not given up on the Bucs actually being sold on Glennon moving forward. I mean they didn’t trade him despite receiving offers last year (contrary to what many predicted was the plan) and they passed on every QB in last year’s draft (again contrary to what most self-proclaiming high football IQ types predicted). Based on Lovie Smith’s history and what we’re seeing so far it sure looks like they might be content either drafting a day two day three QB this year or possibly bring in another vet retread to compete with Glennon while focusing on improving both lines. That’s not a tail between my legs prediction, but rather an observation that Glennon could be a poor man’s Joe Flacco which is probably good enough for Lovie’s offensive approach.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:52 am
“Say all you want about the need for an offensive lineman, but it’s amazing how much better an average offensive line looks in front of an accomplished quarterback.”
In all of my years following football I have never heard that before. It really does not make too much sense. An above average OL makes average running backs and quarterbacks/wide receivers look like gods.
I am not advocating using the 1st pick of the draft on a Hog, but trade down and stockpile. So far there is no Pro Bowl QB in this draft. If you get 4 picks for that original pick your chances of hitting a home run multiply while shoring up holes on the team.
I am really not understanding how people do not get that.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:56 am
Guys don’t be surprised when Lovie drafts a DE. Mark my word. Lovie went all Offence last year so DE 1st round, maybe a QB 2nd, O line and MLB this draft. Remember you heard it from me.
January 8th, 2015 at 10:58 am
Thunder Sack Says:
January 8th, 2015 at 10:52 am
“I am really not understanding how people do not get that.”
Allow me to help you understand then.
Some of us, me included think Winston will be a very good QB in the NFL and you don’t think so.
You don’t pass up this chance when it only comes around every ten years or so.
Simple as that.
January 8th, 2015 at 11:10 am
Thunder Sack yer spot on…How many times have you heard broadcasters say that if you DON’T hear an offensive lineman’s name they are doing their jobs ? So of course you don’t hear someone applaud a left tackle when they march down 80 yards for a game winning score….But you can bet that sweet toe photo that it took all 11 men to do it and not just the qb.
January 8th, 2015 at 11:19 am
How do we definitively know that we don’t already possess that QB on the roster now when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning , nor Aaron Rodgers could have survived statistically behind that sieve? And who in their right mind even suggested who spend the #1 overall pick on an O-lineman. Trade down for GOD sake’s. Yes, it’s true you don’t see the left tackle march his team down the field 80 yards in crunch time for a go-ahead score, but without blocking you want see any QB march his team down the field 80 yards in crunch time for a go-ahead score either.
January 8th, 2015 at 11:28 am
Bryce Petty is an excellent option at QB! I will keep saying it over and over again. Until Team Glazer fires the entire Lovie Smith group, it does not matter who is chosen at QB. Franchise QB’s are not always found in the first five picks. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Flacco, Russell Wilson, Kap, etc, etc. The problem is my rottweiler has as much skill picking football talent as the wimp called Lovie!!
The Cowboys are another example of a team without a top 5 pick at QB that are doing better with several first round picks on the O line! Romo definitely looks better and stayed heathier (not the O lines fault he is hurt in a car crash) with those big studs blocking for him.
The only group with less talent than the QB’s for the Buc’s was the O line. If the Buc’s waste one more pick on D line I will scream. So many starters playing for other teams right now. Michael Bennett was allowed to walk away. Aquib Talib is a shut down CB with the Broncos. What did they get for Talib?? A 6th round pick??
I disagree with the debate that Winston will mature when surrounded by grown men. He was surrounded by a large number of grown men at FSU who only facilitated his raping of a female student. I am telling you during or before the 2017 season, he will reoffend and end up on the NFL’s exempt list while waiting for his next trial. The NFL will not play with this idiot and will not care that the Buc’s have to pay him while awaiting his trial.
Bryce Petty could be an excellent option if you do not believe strongly in Mariotta…..although Mariotta will not disappoint the Buc’s by thinking with what lies between his thighs (like Winston) instead of what is between his ears! Fire Lovie NOW!!!
Greg Schiano
January 8th, 2015 at 11:28 am
@Buc1987
StPeteBucsFan…and what if you’re “face of the franchise” Mariota is an NFL bust, like I think he’s going to be?
What if Jameis is a bust of gets busted out for behavior like a lot of us worry about.
The simple truth is that both these players are a 50-50 gamble talent wise. They both also bear the burden of the Heisman jinx.
IMHO they BOTH will make servicable if not top tier QB’s and they both show enough potential to be really good.
We do not need another Andrew Luck or generational QB. We only need..Russell Wilson..Matty Ice…Joe Flacco..Brad Johnson…
QB’s fall into three groups for me.
1st and very, very rare…the QB who can take a team and carry it on his shoulders. I do not believe Jameis or Marcus are that QB although I could be proven wrong.
2nd. A QB who doesn’t PREVENT you from winning a SB again see Brad Johnson…Flacco etc.
3rd A QB who so limits you that you have no chance at really competing in the playoffs….see the current Bucs roster.
I think both Mariota and Winston will at least make that 2nd tier and that’s all we need if Lovie builds the dream defense.
IF we could win with either of them, why would you want somebody who has his buds make a tape of him scoring and then effectively boasts about it by yelling a gross obscenity in an FSU building.
Imagine you sent your 19 year old daughter to FSU. Forget the sexual allegations.. How would you like her hanging with her friends and having to listen to stuff like F her in the p. making fun of the serious charges he was still facing. You really want that for the face of your franchise?
Both are 50-50. The talent differential is not that great. The personalities are night and day different.
January 8th, 2015 at 11:59 am
@Nick
may God have mercy on your soul
We obviously disagree on religion as well as football.
I think God has far more important things to deal with than the condition of my soul because of an opinion I expressed on a sports blog.
Gawd some of you Jameis freaks are out of control. It’s a freaking sports blog. It’s football…as in entertainment!!! We are all expressing OPINIONS.
This is not life and death and it doesn’t really need to be so full of personal animus.
Fortunately although I disagree with many folks here and agree with others I do not hold any personal animosity towards posters I disagree with nor do I need to call them names or PRAY FOR THEM. LMAO
January 8th, 2015 at 12:03 pm
Buc1987 said: “Mike Golic just made a good point about Winston on Mike and Mike. He said Winston will be forced to grow up because he will be surrounded by grown men. He said that as Herbstreit, Corso, and both Mike’s said Jameis goes #1 overall to Tampa Bay.”
If Greenberg says anything that is pretty much the kiss of death….. But what Golic said about being forced to grow up: not always true as guys like Cryin’ Leif, Jamarcus Russell, Todd Marinovich, and our own Josh Freeman adequately point out via their careers and subsequent issues on and off the field…. Johnny Football appears to be another for this list as he appears to also be a bit slow on the curve concerning growing up a tad… Then again Winston could very well be the exception to the rule and blow the doors off of the NFL…. Being a franchise qb is high pressure with a lot at stake. It is a lot for a kid in his early 20’s to handle and that includes not only Winston but Mariota, Hundley, or Bryce Petty. I just hope whomever the Bucs selects can actually be their first real franchise qb (Steve Young don’t count) and has a long a fruitful career for Tampa but StPeteBucsFan is right its a 50-50 dice roll at best….
January 8th, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Joe, I think I get it why you’re so high on Winston. Decent QB on the field, and he’ll hopefully outgrow his problems off the field. Fine.
The bigger question I think is: Can he LEAD an NFL offense?
More specifically: Could he LEAD the Bucs’ offense?
NFL players (and coaches) aren’t going to put up with some of the crap that he’s pulled in college. Arguing with the coach in the game against the Ducks? He’s got Josh Freeman written all over him. When times get tough (the Bucs are the poster child for that) Winston’s LEADERSHIP won’t be able to pull them through. I haven’t been impressed.
Mariota may not be a slam-dunk in the NFL, but I’ll take his LEADERSHIP potential any day of the year over Winston’s. And as far as his other aspects go, being able to keep his eyes downfield while he’s scrambling for his life may come in handy in a few games … as in 16 a season.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:20 pm
@Dick
Are you talking badly about Jameis? The rest of us will pray for your soul. 🙂
January 8th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Fort Myers Dave ..I’m sure Winston can handle the burden of being labeled the franchise. He’s dealt with much worse than that in college.
I don’t think this kid knows what pressure is.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:32 pm
Dick…that is ABSOLUTELY insane talk. It’s you’re opinion though, just as it’s mine to call you insane.
Winston is dripping with LEADERSHIP skills.
How in EF does anyone NOT see that? How do you watch an FSU game and not see how fired up Winston is and what he does for the rest of his team?
I repeat DRIPPING.
As a matter of fact that’s one of his biggest qualities.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:38 pm
Gee, Joe, you really believe this?
“Winning the trenches is important, of course, but it does not supersede the following: You. Need. A. Quarterback.
Shoot, the Bucs proved this in their one and only Super Bowl win.”
No, they proved the opposite. The Raiders had the BEST QB in the league, but the guys in “the trenches” Sapp, Rice, McFarland, and Spires forced him into enough ‘gifts’, that the Buccaneer DEFENSE scored as many points (21) as the league MVP QB (funny… Manning did the same thing, last year, with the same result). Good Lord, Shaun King might have even won that game. It would be wonderful to have a Manning, Brady, Flacco, but the truth is that there is NO guarantees that ANY QB drafted will become one of those. But if that ONE pick can bring you a handful of picks, then take it and increase your chances of successful players.
If you can protect your QB AND beat the pulp out the opponent’s QB, you can win a lot of games.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Roman Oben at LT, Kerry Jenkins at LG, Jeff Christie at OC… I can’t remember the RG, and then Kenyatta… who was the RG? This is driving me crazy!
January 8th, 2015 at 12:46 pm
@Buc1987
“You don’t pass up this chance when it only comes around every ten years or so.”
I appreciate that you think so highly of Winston. The problem is that the talent evaluators across the board do not. As they have said repeatedly, there is no Pro Bowl/Franchise QB in this draft. Not that there could not be one later on in the draft.
If the Bucs were a better team without so many glaring holes I could maybe see taking the chance. As it stands? It doesn’t make too much sense.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:05 pm
I can agree on this Joe. An OL can be had in 2-7 rds.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:21 pm
@StPeteBucsFan Says: Are you talking badly about Jameis? The rest of us will pray for your soul.
__________________________________________________
LOL. I appreciate your prayers, I really do (noticed through these comments that you seem to be praying for a lot of others who disagree with you also … praying is good, although your motivation might be circumspect).
Somehow though, I don’t think that my preferring Mariota over Winston will keep me out of heaven. Just a guess however.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:37 pm
Yeah Dick.
I don’t think God really cares about any opinion expressed on a sports blog.
I don’t think God cares whether we select Jameis or Marcus.
I honestly do not bring God into these discussions and try to stay away from race other than in response to others.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:44 pm
@Brandon
Cosey Coleman was RG…..not a standout bunch…credit to Gruden and Johnson for the “functional” offense
January 8th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
Agreed Joe. Look at the best lines in the NFL over the last few years with stud tackles; Cleveland and Philly to me have been the best lately and what have they done. Teams like Baltimore and Pitt seem to have continued success with mediocre to slightly above average lines. That’s what the bucs should be aiming for, a stud qb who can make their average line look stellar. You said it best, Brady and Peyton have never seemed to have bad lines. I assure you that the GMs on the three teams have not been able to maintain an excellent line every year over the last 15 seasons.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:55 pm
The fact is that you can find good offensive lineman all throughout the first and second rounds, but only very rarely are you in the position to draft the franchise quarterback that you have your eyes on.
January 8th, 2015 at 2:16 pm
Question is….how many HOF’ers will we get to pass up on to get a non-franchise QB?
January 8th, 2015 at 6:27 pm
Gruden had that line playing to their absolute full potential. Together. Those guys never played anywhere near as well again.
January 9th, 2015 at 4:22 am
Lomas Brown?