Bizarre Offensive Line Take From Jason Licht
January 13th, 2015
This commentary from Tampa Bay general manager Jason Licht left Joe banging his head against a wall.
Speaking on the Buccaneers Radio Network following the Bucs’ awesome loss against the Saints, one that wrapped up the Chase for Jameis, Licht talked about the positive impact of Logan Mankins and the struggles on the offensive line.
Licht said the 2014 O-line was a little clueless when it came to proper preparation, before Mankins arrived at the end of the preseason. Here’s the full quote:
“Coming from New England, they have a way that they do things offensively,” Licht said. “Offensive line, they’re tough. They’re mature. They’re smart. They work well together in unison. And you know how with the offensive line, if you’ve got one or two, or even one player out of whack, the whole unit looks bad. And he brought a mentality. And that all comes with preparation. And, quite frankly, I don’t know if our players knew exactly how to work the right way. Not that, George Warhop is a tremendous coach. It takes more than just a tremendous coach. The players have to buy in and do it on their own. They have to watch tape on their own. They have to prepare on their own when George isn’t there. I don’t know if they knew how to do that until Logan came on board. And Logan has been doing it the right way for a long time. So it was very valuable in that regard.”
So Licht is saying the O-line didn’t have the necessary commitment and knowledge before Mankins got here. Yet the O-line got progressively worse, culminating in Josh McCown enduring epic beatings in the final two home games. Huh?
Joe’s having trouble feeling Mankins’ positive impact.
Demar Dotson was in his sixth season. Evan Dietrich-Smith was a starter in Green Bay. Oniel Cousins was handpicked by Warhop. Veteran Anthony Collins was mentored by Andrew Whitworth for years and played with other standouts on the Bengals’ offensive line. But these guys didn’t know “exactly how to work the right way,” per Licht.
Joe’s not sure what to think, especially when Donald Penn, Jeremy Zuttah and Ted Larsen had good seasons with other teams.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:08 am
A good OC can gameplan around a bad O-line to make the until look better than it is. I look at Koetter’s stint in Atlanta and they had to deal with far worse O-line issues than Bucs did (using TE as a OT), but performed admirably on offense given the circumstances. Our current set of guys, especially the failures like Collins and EDS looked better on other teams than here. Also Dotson looked far better in years prior than last season.
I have a feeling that with marginal upgrades the line will be a middle of the road unit with Koetter calling quick 3 step drops, screens and an innovative run game to neutralize the pass rush. We had none of that happen last year. The Vikings and Ravens games are a great examples of our O-line playing very bad, but Arroyo was calling long developing plays on 7 step drops often.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:08 am
Again, crap runs uphill….goes straight back to the man in charge and who’s in charge???
Lovie of course…
Simple as that
January 13th, 2015 at 11:13 am
Key word “together” joe
he said it clearly-“if you’ve got one or two, or even one player out of whack, the whole unit looks bad.” we don’t get to see just how bad they really look in practice or how dumb the free agent lineman are that lovie signed. if you can’t do it the right way meaning prepare then you are doomed to fail and who was it oneil cousins that was always a backup and not asked to prepare as a starter so he was clueless and I think it was the same for Anthony Collins and so yea when the left tackle plays like garbage and the right guard looks like garbage everything around it will collapse. I have no problem with logan mankins or EDS except for the price tag
January 13th, 2015 at 11:13 am
Of course, he is going to say positive things about the washed up, overpriced lineman he traded for. But good lines, like New England’s, are good because they put young talent through their system and develop them. Not sign and trade washed up veterans. We have no young talent and a lousy system.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:14 am
“Licht said the 2014 O-line was a little clueless” – Understatement of the year
“Not that, George Warhop is a tremendous coach. It takes more than just a tremendous coach.” – Overstatement of the year
January 13th, 2015 at 11:15 am
@ Tom Edrington
guess we don’t have to worry about you being a bucs fans for atleast another year or until you decide to jump back on the bandwagon because of all coaching and players changes that will happen lovie will be here obviously so hey bro that’s a long time to hang on to that kind of hate….see us when next season ends
January 13th, 2015 at 11:20 am
Koetter’s first piece of business to attend to is firing Warhop and getting a new OL coach. STAT!!!
January 13th, 2015 at 11:21 am
Depends if you believe the old saw that OL is one of the most demanding spots in terms of players performing as a UNIT.
If 40% of your starting OL is clearly not NFL quality…certainly not Ohio State quality you’re bound the have problems!
Think about how we looked. Every other spot on our OL was filled with somebody who shouldn’t even be in the League!! Garrett freaking Gilkey..are you kidding me. Oneil Cousins? C’MON MAN!
EDS had Mankins on one side and a total joke on the other…that joke was inside of poor Demar Dotson. And Mankins had a turnstile to his left.
OL’s are truly units. You simply can’t let 40% of the line be that horrid and expect the 60% to look good.
I’m not saying Mankins, EDS or Dotson are going to be all pro. But if you found an all pro LT…Andrus Peat? and an all pro right guard EDS, Mankins and Dotson would suddenly look much better and their play would definitely be elevated.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:21 am
If not for Robert Quinn, penn would still be scoring tds for the bucs. Damn you Robert Quinn.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:22 am
Nate
Not named mike Tice.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:23 am
Jonny 2.3
My post obviously echoes your thoughts. I agree with you.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:23 am
Our offensive line was the 25th worst in the NFL.
32 – Dolphins (8-8)
31 – Rams (6-10)
30 – Bills (9-7)
29 – Chargers (9-7)
28 – Titans (2-14)
27 – Chiefs (9-7)
26 – Falcons (6-10)
25 – Bucs (2-14)
I don’t think we can use our O-Line as a reason to why we lost games. Other teams seemed to fair much better than us with an o-line worse than ours. Most of them have a QB though or could run the ball. We didn’t have any of those. Also, the Playcalling was awful at best.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:23 am
Licht’s comment was a bunch of gibberish. They must have had an open bar at the suite from which Licht watched the Saints game from @ RJS…..
January 13th, 2015 at 11:24 am
Hey Joe this first part is off topic but thought it was a good news … Dari and Mel podcast from this past Saturday debate on Mariota and Winston with Chris Mortensen weighing in as well.. Starts within the first 10 min of the podcast
On topic now.. Jason just covering his @$$ when it comes to his free agent signings.. Should just come out and say we missed on the line and needed better coaching and as a GM I need to be better than that.. Man up when you swing and miss so badly that we traded a 4th round pick and a talented and young TE for an old guard who wouldn’t take a pay cut.. When we were not anywhere close to competing for the Superbowl..
January 13th, 2015 at 11:29 am
Love the website Joes! I know a guy has to make a dollar but the new “Courtyard” pop-up advertising (that comes up every time I expand a story now) is a little too far… especially annoying on an iPad.
Joe appreciates non-malicious feedback, but openly suggesting people not visit JoeBucsFan.com. is over the line. That’s why the rest of your comments were deleted.–Joe
January 13th, 2015 at 11:38 am
Tom Edrington: by your logic the problem lies with the Glazer lads if the crap indeed runs to the top. They are the one’s who are allowed L&L to let the franchise slip to a low unseen since Leeman Bennett and Hugh Culverhouse were gracing the sideline in Creamsicle leisure suits….. However I see your point, whatever Lovie’s lapdog says is a direct reflection upon him and rose colored glasses and some nicely spun BS from L&L may help disguise the stink of the OL but its ineptitude, lack of discipline/talent was apparent to anyone who watched the Bucs this year and I find that #25 ranking a bit dubious as it is hard to believe any OL (except for the ATL, Lambs and perhaps Jags) were as bad as Tampa’s…..
January 13th, 2015 at 11:41 am
Fort Myers Dave Says:
January 13th, 2015 at 11:38 am
Tom Edrington: by your logic the problem lies with the Glazer lads if the crap indeed runs to the top.
**************
I would agree with that. I’ve said all this year that the Glazers need to sell the team to a competent owner.
January 13th, 2015 at 11:48 am
We need the Glazers on tape making Donald Sterling-esque comments. A forced sale is what’s best for everyone
January 13th, 2015 at 11:48 am
@Fortmyersdave
“Tom Edrington: by your logic the problem lies with the Glazer”
I don’t know if that was Tom’s intent but that’s exactly how I feel! If you look at the common denominator in all the NFL franchises that suck it’s the ownership.
YES the Glazers have been the problem. Again in fairness to them, they made a very shrewd business deal with Man U that has them set as Billionaires. Hard to blame them for that but the deal set the Bucs franchise back at least ten years and gave us Rah and Schiano.
Now they’re investing again and so let’s see what happens the next ten years.
If the Bucs don’t make the playoffs in the next two years there should be a law that lets fans vote and force the Glazers to sell.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:15 pm
he has to defend the absolute failure of a trade and highway robbery NE pulled off on him.
his a$$ is probably still sore from that. so much so that he throws the OL coach under the bus, not that we did not already know he sucked.
So, the OL coach is going to get fired. thank you.
now, who’s gonna throw the mud at licht?
the players did not know how to prep???? they did not buy in to the OL coach, they did not study?
who signed these clowns mr licht?
January 13th, 2015 at 12:21 pm
there was some chatter that the Bucs might look to Mike Tice to come and replace Warhop.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Why does it seem the head coach, assistant coaches, GM, and all the players act like they have never been in professional football before? Did I miss us timewarping back to 1922?
January 13th, 2015 at 12:30 pm
Years of losing has a way of upsetting fans.
The “you’ll be on the bandwagon soon” is homer speak.
I truly want to see it…. but my eyes just don’t.
Yes, the OC hire was a pleasant surprise, but those expecting to see a rookie QB propel this team to the playoffs soon are buying the same pile of dung we were sold on last year.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:32 pm
I wish we could replace these moron haters that will hate on anything and everything and replace them with real fans.
Worst fan base in the league. You fuc*s thrive on failure because of your miserable lives.
Go hang yourselves and do the world a favor and let real bucs fans comment.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:42 pm
@TheKevin
Dude did your forget your meds this morning? LMAO Passion is one thing but that was a pretty vitriolic blast there. Just sayin’
January 13th, 2015 at 12:53 pm
The Kevin hasn’t gotten laid in a few decades, cut him some slack. I’d be that tense too if I were him.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:55 pm
my take on the OL is one word “cohesion” > the act or state of uniting, or sticking together….we dismantled the line of 2013 and then tried to put a bunch of strangers together and mesh…then substituted and moved people around…a mess from start to finish…IF Mankins comes back, we need to determine, IN THE SPRING, who is the RG and other OT and hopefully they can mold to a cohesive unit…end of rant lol
January 13th, 2015 at 12:59 pm
Mealy-mouthed tool bag. This guy is a joke.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:00 pm
The Kevin is chief of fan police! What a bag
January 13th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
Despite what Buc4lyfe may say or think, I do not hate anything regarding sports, I really dislike what happened to the team this past season and I dislike the failure of those inside the walls in their talent evaluation.
That being said, this looked worse than the first season in 1976 and I was part of our Tribune coverage back in the day.
I was also saddened by those season ticket holders who personally told me they “hated” going to the games after about the midway point of the season, so take that and stick in your pipe 4lyfe.
I have no confidence in the talent evaluation skills of Lovie Smith. Also, Lovie’s concept of the NFL is one that was a product of the old rules. With the rules changes, it is becoming more difficult for him to adapt and that is painfully obvious.
As for the owners, no doubt they were very embarrassed this season and I would love to hear Lovie’s excuses given behind closed doors.
It better be a HUGE turnaround in 2015 otherwise Lovie could be back in the basement although his house here in our community has no basement!
January 13th, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Every single post by the Kevin is what idiots everyone is and that true fan nonsense. Hilarious
January 13th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
The people here who critisize other people personally are the true losers. How they miss that is pure ignorance.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Hey Joe, are the Rich Eisen videos going to play every time you open a story, or are you in the process of getting this fixed?
They’ll go away. It’s ok. –Joe
January 13th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
“I would agree with that. I’ve said all this year that the Glazers need to sell the team to a competent owner.”
Finally something we can all agree upon. If only Eddie DeBartolo would buy out the Glazer boys.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Joe do you wash your butt cause your butt cheese is out of control.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
I have no faith in the Glazer family of doing anything with this organization. They are to worried about Man U. I wished they would have sold after Malcolm passed. However, we did not get that luxury.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Sounds to me Licht is trying to say Warhop is a terrible coach without actually saying Warhop is a terrible coach. Seriously, why does that guy still have a job?
January 13th, 2015 at 1:30 pm
At least he say something like EDS is the foundation of anything besides the product that comes out of but holes.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
Truth is, Kevin is kind of right. The fans here, most of them, do suck. They are the kind of fans that insist on change all the time, even when things are going well, and complain when they get their way. Case in point, look how many wished Schiano had not been fired these days, even though they called for his head a year ago? And WANTED Lovie!
There are exceptions. Real fans that actually offer constructive contributions here instead of trolling. But they keep going away because of the negativity. Misery loves company, you know. So the whiners are gathering.
On topic, EDS actually cost us 2-3 games last year because he could not hike the ball. That’s the main job of a center, so he needs to go. I suspect Lovie and Licht knew it was a long shot with him, which is why his contract has an easy out.
Mankins, well….I disagree with the common belief that he is a problem. I think with the rest of the offensive line fixed, he can excel. The questions I have on him are concerning his age. Can we fix the line before he is too old to be of use? Because he is nearing that point.
Damar is backup material, nothing more. He would not be a starter anywhere else unless they were desperate. So, really, we need 4 new guys on the offensive line. That is just not realistic. Sure, we can replace them, but do it successfully? There’s the trick.
But, what choice have we but to try? I figure we should draft a center…that’s the key position on the line. Draft a tackle or guard, and then replace the others in free agency. Hope for the best.
Don’t forget, Baron’s replacement is no sure thing and we will need a replacement for Mason Foster and likely Goldson as well. I like Foster, but his health issues are a big problem. Still, he COULD be depth. We have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. We need to make them count.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:59 pm
Sent you a screen shot thru email.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Shouldn’t Warhop be the person in charge of getting the line working together? Sounds like something that would be included in his job description as the offensive line coach. Any word on offensive staff changes after the Koetter hire?
January 13th, 2015 at 3:07 pm
BuccaneerBonzai Says:
January 13th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
There are exceptions. Real fans that actually offer constructive contributions here instead of trolling.
________________________________________________________________
Considering the source….
January 13th, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Yea the fans suck, the team sucks, the coaching sucks, the pop-ups suck. The only thing that doesn’t suck is my wife and that sucks too.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
ROFLMAO….
January 13th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
In the first round DB55 takes a new wife. 🙂
January 13th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Fans that tell other fans how to deal with 6-26 record are worthless. Go f yourselves you pompous losers. Ain’t a lot of positives with a 6-26 record.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:17 pm
Ya I for one don’t get the Mankins deal either. We ship TE Tim Wright and a 4th round pick for a 32 year old washed up Guard. Granted he made the prowl 6 times and we needed leadership on the line, we did it at a big expense. Most good teams can find OL in the later rounds to start. We got a G Kadeem Edwards and T Kevin Pamphile both in the 5th round last year and probably missed on them. There went a 4th and two 5th round picks. This year we will spend a 2nd and probably a 4th on OL…if not more. 2 high priced FA and the the BIG GUY with the BIG toe problem. Licht used to be a OL himself. Warhop is garbage,…..who is running this show?
January 13th, 2015 at 3:20 pm
Ummm, no. Thanks for playing Jason Licht.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Lovie should go all def this year. A yin and yang type thing. Would really like to see perryman playing the mlb spot.
Serious question, leonard williams, would he play 3tech NT or DE? Someone told me DT but is that NT? I guess Gregory would make more sense. Having two Simeon clones on each side would be nice.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
they need to dig deeper!!! look for guy with heart. guys that this is their only shot of not being a beer truck man. guys with a brain.
they should have 3-4 guys on payroll doing nothing but traveling visiting OL guys from other teams practice squads, college ranks, washouts.
It aint that complicated. get a guy for east, one for west, one for midwest. Each guy has a list of cities to hit and the potential players in that city. In and out in a few days. From that list you bring in the top 3-5 from each persons meetings. as a headhunter, thats what I would do anyway.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
you could apply that strategy, learn who your best scouts are and save millions on an overpriced free agent, all while easily covering the budget, payroll and expenses of the scouts.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
but we know they will probably overpay for a washed up free agent.
whoever is doing the scouting is a moran.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Tom Edrington Says has several thoughtful posts on this thread. It is also refreshing to see a number of supportive and constructive responses to his posts. What baffles me is the mask worn by most readers prohibiting them from seeing, accepting and calling for change fom the Glazers and Coach(?) Lovie Smith. Like it or not boys and girls, the time is now.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Seriously, you guys who complain about advertising really have no concept of how the worl works do you. If that is all you have to complain about, get a life.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
ddneast = Joe?
Let’s not be ridiculous. –Joe
January 13th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Go look in the mirror ddneast. I dare you to write a post that isn’t b!tching about something or someone.
January 13th, 2015 at 4:39 pm
@Soggy
“In the first round DB55 takes a new wife.”
Soggy FTW!!! But he does have a tough choice. Does he go with the blonde or brunette, both have done some admirable work with bumper hitches.
January 14th, 2015 at 1:50 am
This is Licht trying to defend both the moves he made in choosing the lineman there prior to Mankins arriving (not saying they weren’t skilled, but that they we’re just unaware of how to properly prepare) + defend the trade for Mankins… Both of which he blew!
January 15th, 2015 at 1:17 am
Depends: was Arroyo calling HIS offense, or was he trying to call some of Tedford’s concepts? If so, Arroyo either had no idea if the line should be blocking man/power or a zone scheme – in what situation – or he didn’t know what he was doing, period.
What I’m trying to say is, I’m STILL not sure that we know if the offensive line talent that’s been accumulated, would/or could work with a legitimate OC? Maybe once Koetter installs a LEGITIMATE offense, one that will be called by an OC who has actually called an ACTUAL NFL GAME – will the talent still look as hopeless as last season seemed to imply? I can tell you that after spending a LOT more time than normal, watching our o-line play this year (or as much as a novice can decipher from NFL Rewind & a DVr) – I sure couldn’t figure out what is was we were trying to pull off….whether they had Warhop or not, I don’t think we really ever knew what we were doing?!
Now, having said that, I DO think this is a GREAT chance to get your LOT – as I’m NOT as sold on Dotson as @joe seems to be at LOT – I think he’s ‘passable’ just not sure if he would be more than a swing tackle on an offensive line like Philly, Dallas, New England, or Denver (but maybe SF or Seattle)?
Again, I’m certainly not trying to sound like an expert – far from it – but from my perspective, I’m just not sure last year is a good year to use as an indicator for the talent we may/may not have, along the o-line. I think bad coaching makes good players look bad. I think inept coaching makes good players look inept. I can’t really level ALL of THAT criticism at Arroyo, as he actually entered the season only prepared to be the QB coach – until just before the whistles blew…