“A Good Pick If You’re Not Going To Play Him”
January 10th, 2015
Marcus Mariota got a quite a backhanded endorsement from a Super Bowl-winning quarterback this week.
BSPN talking head and resident quarterback expert Trent Dilfer, who once tortured Bucs fans but made a Pro Bowl with Tampa Bay, joined the Ron and Ian show on WDAE-AM 620 to talk Bucs and QBs.
Dilfer was asked the money question on the minds of Bucs fans from Clearwater Beach to Lakeland: Who do you think should and will be the next Buccaneers quarterback?
“I think it should be Jameis Winston,” Dilfer said. “I don’t think there’s a comparison between Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota when it comes to being pro-ready. I think Marcus Mariota is a good pick if you’re not going to play him. I think he has a chance to be a very good player in the NFL. He’s got a great physical skill set. He’s got a nice intangible makeup. He’s a great kid, but he needs to learn a lot of football. He needs to learn how to play the quarterback position in the NFL.
” He needs to sit for a while. So if you, as an organization, can afford to sit him for a year, a year and a half, and play someone else, then he’s a good pick.
“If you want a quarterback that can come in right away, be the face of the franchise, make plays on Sunday, get everybody to believe you’ve got hope, Jameis Winston’s the guy.”
Hmm, that was interesting.
Would the Bucs have the stomach to draft Mariota and park him on the bench for a year or more? That sure would be a tough sell to Bucs fans, who watched spread offense quarterbacks Cam Newton and Andy Dalton excel as rookies in 2011, even after missing the entire offseason.
The Bucs would need a “bridge quarterback” far better than Josh McCown to pull off a maneuver like that without a widespread fan uprising.
Joe’s got full audio of the Dilfer interview below. It’s quite good. Dilfer talked about regretting not listening to coaching during his early years, and much more.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Hmm, Diller could make all the throws and came out of a pro set offense, how did he turn out?
January 10th, 2015 at 12:06 pm
Hogwash. Draft him and make him the starter from Day 1.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
IMO, neither is a franchise Qb, so let’s drop it altogether. I’m A OK having the Bridge over troubled waters be MG8. -MGM fan
January 10th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Draft Mariota, that is.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:12 pm
We all agree on only one thing. We need a QB!!!
That’s where the debate goes all over the road. Perhaps MG8 has a Flacco/Ryan ceiling. We really haven’t had a good enough look at MG8 to pass final judgment.
Maybe neither of these QB’s is worth the risk of the Heisman jinx and the firestorm of pub that would attend drafting one of them first in the draft. If it’s Mariota that’s minimized because he’s a choirboy and handles himself with grace and aplomb. If it’s Jameis….
Maybe the Bucs braintrust has Id’d a QB for later in the draft. Maybe they feel a QB coming out next year is a far better prospect than these two.
I used to be on the Jameis or Marcus bandwagon. Just get us a QB. No longer. In fact it’s beginning to make me nervous.
It’s the age old draft question. Do you draft solely for need or do you take the BPA. I realize you have to strike a balance but I get truly nervous when moves are made out of desperation because of need. Just sayin’.
Whatever, while I was scared spitless about Lovie making this decision his addition of Koetter has calmed me significantly.
Remember Lovie went against form when he picked Tedford a college coach who was promising a wide open offense. I now believe that Lovie is going to give Koetter plenty of authority and even a degree of autonomy.
Remember Koetter was not desperate for a gig. He could have any number of coaching jobs from college HC to NFL OC. I don’t think he took this job just for money either. Lovie had to give Koetter something to take the position.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:13 pm
If we start Mariota day 1 his stats will be worse than Tim Tebow. He needs at least a year to be even close to ready. Unless…. unless Koetter is really a saint and can perform miracles. Wouldnt it be nice to have a saint within the organization?
January 10th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Quite a few nfl folks are saying he will fall to mid teens.. One made a good point that the last two oregon quarterbacks had very similar gaudy stats.and when his knee was injured and couldn’t run in 2013 he had poor games from the pocket.
Come draft time he may not be in the conversation as the number one pick.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
SURE!!!!! Maybe Winston is more Pro-Ready….but Mariota has a higher ceiling. Winston is only pro ready because he was coached up in a pro style offense.
There is nothing that would suggest Mariota cannot learn and run the same offense just as good or better.
Marioto, DE, OL or trade…
January 10th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
If you’re going to draft Mariota then sit him for a year or two (A.Rogers). In those 2 years Bucs can groom him. In those same 2 years Winston could be spending his time getting out of trouble. IMO. Pass on them both, neither are Franchise QBs. You don’t take one just because they’re there.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Winston is pro ready? The only QB I’ve seen pull that off is Andrew Luck. Amazing how the talking heads all grab on to the same thing and beat you to death with it.
Sure, OK. That’s why he’s jawing with his coach when things start to unravel during the Oregon game. There’s more to football then just being a good athlete. I see maturity issues both on and off the field.
Regardless of whom the Bucs take (ahem, MM), it would be wise to sit either one.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:15 pm
BTW I have an honest question for all of you. Try to put aside our desperate need for a QB. Nole fans take off those Garnett and gold glasses.
Forget the position. Simply state who you believe is the BPA in this draft.
Not the player you would necessarily select, especially if you think our QB NEED overrides all other considerations
Just a straightforward question. Not who is the best QB but who is the BPA in this draft?
January 10th, 2015 at 12:15 pm
Lovie needs help now or else he’s gone next year. He doesn’t have the luxury of spending a number 1 pick on a person that won’t be ready for another year and a half.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Dilfer sucked so bad as a QB I don’t get how he’s such an expert now! I can’t stand to hear him or King they love to tell you about Being a Great Qb! But they could never even be average! What a joke
January 10th, 2015 at 12:18 pm
The thought of Jameis Winston as the face of our franchise is shameful and embarrassing. The Glazers will NEVER do it. Get over the fantasy, people. Embrace Mariota.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
What’s a year?……not much in the life of a Buc fan…..With Koetter, I’d be comfortable starting Glennon if we improve the Oline…..sitting Mariota for a year or using him in the wildcat…..”what a novel idea”
Joe thinks we would be stupid (from earlier post) to trade down with Tennessee and still get Mariota…because Tenn would surely take the “NFL ready” QB…..that “all” Scouts and NFL Front Office types support as the # 1 pick.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:20 pm
Lovie does not have time to develop Mariota. Lovie’s only option is to draft Winston. I love all the people so sure what is going to happen. No one knows anything yet. Lovie has plenty of time to screw this first pick up.
Draft Winston!
Erik with Clean Athletics – I am sure Jameis will be glad to sign your Winston Jersey when he is drafted over your man crush Mariota. I do respect your consistency just disagree with your position.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
I’ll post this everyday til the draft if Joe’s going to continue to be stubborn and illogical….
Veteran draft analyst Russ Lande of GM Jr. says in his podcast with Josh LIskiewitz and Scott Bischoff, starting at around 18:00.
“Winston to me is a terrifying prospect,” Lande said. “Because while I understand some of the physical skills that get people excited. He’s got a plus arm, he can make every throw ridiculously easily. When he’s doing things right, not over-striding which is a big problem he has, when he is striding correctly he can make every throw accurately, on time, and he can be very good at anticipating receivers, leading them toward big plays.”
“However all that being said, I don’t think he has great pocket awareness, I think he takes a lot of hits and sacks in the pocket that he doesn’t need to, I don’t think he protects the ball particularly well in terms of fumbling. And the biggest problem I have is I don’t know if he can see the field particularly well. And the reason I say that is, it is remarkable the number of passes that he throws that defenders have an opportunity to get two hands on and make an interception.”
“I’ve never charted a front-line quarterback that was being considered as a first-round pick that threw as many balls into bad spots. He really reminds me, and I’m not talking about character or any of that, just on the football field. He reminds me a lot of Jay Cutler. A guy with enormoous physical talent who always finds a way to put the ball in the opponent’s chest. One of the things that I think is concerning in addition to that, is that this kid plays with a clean pocket almost every game, because he has a great offensive line in front of him, he has a lot of time to throw the ball, and he still finds a way to throw balls for defenders to get their hands on.”
“When I chart this kid out, he charts out as a late-round pick,” Lande said. “I’m not saying that he wouldn’t warrant maybe going a little earlier. But when you add in the questions, the off-field concerns, I just don’t see where you draft this guy because I think he’s gonna really struggle to be a consistent starter in the NFL.”
January 10th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
StPeteBucsFan –
I would have to say BPA is Amari Cooper factoring everything talent, risk and that dreadful word potential.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
LMAO I’ve gone from Jameis or Marcus just get a QB to Williams or Peat. Just get us a franchise player at some position. Do not blow this draft pick.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Bpa is Leonard Williams. He immediately brings an attitudeto our defense that we haven’ t had since the days of Sapp. I’drather have him than Clowney bc he is so stout in the running game and he brings it every play. Fowler would be a better fit but Williams is a guy you make fit.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Eric Says:
January 10th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Quite a few nfl folks are saying he will fall to mid teens.. One made a good point that the last two oregon quarterbacks had very similar gaudy stats.and when his knee was injured and couldn’t run in 2013 he had poor games from the pocket.
*******************
That is false. One analyst even said that a majority of NFL scouts would go back to last season and watch those last 4 games where he had an injured knee, but still played. He came out of those 4 games with a 61% completion rate on a bum knee. Kid is tough and accurate whether FSU fans want to admit or not.
From Sports Nation:
“Mariota played on a sprained left MCL in November 2013. While this obviously limited his mobility, and he played with a large brace to stabilize his knee, scrutinizing these games tells you … what? His ability to play injured? (Oregon went 2-2, losing to Stanford and Arizona in that stretch.) Sure, the knee injury took away his explosiveness as a runner. A knee injury also hinders a quarterback’s ability to do just about anything.
While the MCL injury wasn’t to Mariota’s plant leg (which essentially takes away all ability to drive into a throw), it still affects how he could throw the ball. Legs are important for a quarterback! And not just for running!
And if you’re wondering how Mariota fared on one leg, well…Mariota while “limited as a passer” with MCL injury in 2013: 61% completion rate, 10 TD, 4 INT.”
He did just fine throwing on a bum knee. Let’s try to find something real to talk about Mariota instead of false made up stuff about on field play. If you wanna talk about mechanics let’s talk about it. If you wanna talk about reading defenses let’s talk about it, but to say well he is a spread QB and that doesn’t work in the NFL is false.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Tmax
Wow just imagine Amari and his graceful athleticism and speed with Evans and ASF!!! That would surely free us to deal VJAX a player I love but a luxury if we added Cooper to the roster.
So what is your strategy to get him? What’s funny is that by the time the draft rolls around, the interviews, research and combines, it’s quite possible that neither of these QB’s will be projected #1 and a player like Cooper could hit the top.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Lovie wont decide based on the short term.
But the point is Marcus may not have the skill set to make it period.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Now you’ve just excited me Tmax.
Imagine Glennon (again I’m not in the MGM but I don’t think we really know about him yet) with a retooled competent offensive line, a top NFL OC and Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, and ASF as targets. With Koetter doing the playcalling that could be a truly exciting offense!
January 10th, 2015 at 12:32 pm
StPeteBucsFan
I am convinced the bucs have no choice but to draft Winston unless he pulls another bonehead move between now and then. I believe he will be on his best behavior and hire some good pr guys to get him through the draft. There is too much money at stake for all involved, for that not to happen. I am not saying it will be sincere or permanent but he will come off clean until the draft. If not then he deserves a free fall. I am FSU fan but not a radical by any stretch. For instance, I respect the Hurricanes a great deal and seeing Doug Flutie’s picture on this site yesterday almost made me throw up. So I am not a radical fsu guy but I do believe Winston is the only choice. Mariota might be good in a few years but Lovie does not have a few years. Times have changed. It’s a new league.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
All of you that think this is solely Lovie’s decision may be very wrong…..I think the Glazers will have the final say on this pick. That’s what happens to a coach & GM when they go 2-14….they start to lose some control.
Koetter very well may have come in and told them thyeat he could absolutely work with Glennon for a year or longer….giving them the option to pick a “non pro ready QB” or trade down…..that could have been music to the ears of everyone!!!
January 10th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
StPeteBucsFan – I imagine Glennon on a chair next to his brother doing a radio show. Sorry but I have a thing for Glennon. I don’t like his game and when he stepped out of bounds without getting that first I was done with that dude. The only way I ever see glennon doing anything good is if he was surrounded by 10 All Pros and that is unrealistic. I know he has a fan base here but I am not one of them. I can’t sugar coat it. I just dont like 8 on any level.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:35 pm
“Dilfer sucked so bad as a QB”
Because he was a poster boy for a player who came in as a spoiled rotten petulant star athlete. He is a great athlete and succeeded at multiple sports.
But he was uncoachable in his early years. And he had the QB coach who helped develop Joe Montana at SF and Boomer Esiason at Cincy but Dilfer came out knowing more than Wyche.
He’s speaking from his personal experience. He absolutely needed a a year or two to become even adequate. Luckily for Dilfer he grew up in time to at least salvage a decent career and a SB.
Dilfer is exactly the reason many of us are frightened about Jameis. We’ve already seen super athletes who come in as franchise saviors with great guns and way too much confidence, trying to squeeze in tight throws that NFL DB’s feast on.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Tmax
I respect your opinion on Glennon and that play made me sick as well. For all we could say bad about McCown the dude totally sold out on the field and left bodyparts out there for the Bucs.
That was one play and perhaps he felt the time wasn’t right to sacrifice or risk.
But I’m not going to defend him. As I said I’m no member of the MGM but I don’t think we really know his ceiling yet. But I completely understand your disdain.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:37 pm
DRAFT MARIOTA.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:43 pm
I love this place. You guys keep making me change my mind day after day!
I tend to agree with Tmax that Amari Cooper is the BPA. I’m a huge Cooper fan. It just never occurred to me that a WR could be worth that much. DUH
Evans at #7 was well worth it. If we added Cooper we’d be balanced, deep and set for a decade or more at TE and WR.
Dammit Tmax now you have me hoping for a draft of Cooper.
January 10th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
QB’s don’t come out of college NFL ready….simple as that….
January 10th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
THANKS TO JOE….
Joe’s working overtime to find positive articles on Mariota….by my count, this is the 2nd one….first was about Mariota missing home…..now….draft him but don’t play him…..
Thanks for your efforts to throw a bone to the 50% of JBF readers that supported a Mariota #1 draft pick by the Bucs……we are only a handful of readers but we are important too!!!
***Source for 50%, JBF “poll”***
January 10th, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Dilfer never figured out how to play quarterback himself, how can he judge anyone else? Please next article. I would love too see the look on all you Winston lovers faces when Goodell comes out and says ” with the first pick in the 2015 nfl draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select… Marcus Mariota!!
January 10th, 2015 at 12:58 pm
Winston is more “pro-ready” if the season started the day after the draft. But it doesn’t. The only thing that matters is how ready Mariota will be in September.
Mariota’s overall football IQ, mechanics, and skill set as a passer tell me that he will be ready and you start him right away. He might struggle early in his career, but who cares? This is a long-term investment.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
It boggles the mind that people think that just because you were not All-Pro, you wouldn’t know how to judge talent. Superstars sometimes make the worst coaches and evaluators (Jordan, Isaiah Thomas, Emmit Smith) so I listen to guys like Dilfer because he played and he’s extremely smart.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:11 pm
[@sshole — yeah, going to start name-calling, Joe can do that too. Joe doesn’t give two flips what the fans want. Joe is always — ALWAYS — going be honest and write what Joe believes. If you want to jerk off over a Mariota story, then go here and you can paint your ceiling. Gonna guess the fans also want the Bucs to be 14-2 instead of 2-14, right? So should Joe start writing about the playoff game the Bucs are playing this afternoon? It’s not about what fans “want,” it’s about being honest and upfront. Don’t like this site? Then you have no reason to come here. See ya. – Joe]
January 10th, 2015 at 1:12 pm
With a good OC, which we now have, I would be comfortable with Glennon holding the fort for a year or two while MM sits, or for that matter, keep Mike, trade the pick for a bunch more, and fill several holes, to where we have an O-line that protects and run blocks, and a solid D with depth, so that our QB doesn’t have to carry the team and end up doing too much. I agree that Glennon just might have a Flacco/Ryan type ceiling, he just needs someone to find an build it.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:12 pm
@ St. Pete
No way we are getting Cooper….we will pick one of the two QBs or trade down & unless we trade down with Tenn….Cooper will be gone.
It makes little sense not to trade down if we don’t choose a QB with our first pick….it is too valuable to use it on anything else. IMHO
January 10th, 2015 at 1:12 pm
All I know is everyone on here would agree that we wouldn’t want Dilfer!
January 10th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
This is one of those things people will think back and regret calling for Winston over Mariota in a few years. Mariota has shown he has what it takes, but most of you listen to the various talking heads and let them fool you.
Most of those media guys watch no more than 1 or two games of each quarterback, and then go by what others say themselves…the popular opinions.
This is why we see quarterbacks slip through to later rounds at times, because the people making choices become blinded by popular opinion.
What they really need to do is look below the surface for the things the common evaluator does not see. The clues that hint that they are getting it wrong.
That’s how you spot the diamonds. Mariota is a diamond, but some are missing it. The FSU bias is blinding you.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:16 pm
Im torn between wanting to see the bucs draft Winston just to see the reactions of the clowns on here who have convinced themselves that it would never happen and wanting to see them draft mariota so I can enjoy watching all the pro-Mariota crowd backpedal for the next five years as he never amounts to anything but a mediocre square peg in a round hole. For those who think we’ll draft any position but qb #1, you’re delusional. We might trade down, but a qb is going #1…winston, unless the eagles trade up.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Because everyone here knows more about actually playing QB in the NFL than Dilfer. Mariota is great if you want him to take off out of the pocket or throw screens. Just because you play Madden and watch NFL network doesn’t mean you actually know anything.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
I may take a year or two to develop Marcus…..just as A. Rodgers did…no big deal. The problem with Winston is that he might not only be NFL ready, but also JAIL ready.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:20 pm
As far as starting at the beginning of the season, Lovie would be foolish to do so no matter who is picked at quarterback. They are completely rebuilding the offensive line, people.
You don’t put your franchise quarterback out there until the line can at least halfway protect him. You put the sacrificial lamb out there for the first few games until the offensive line gets some experience under their belt and can work together.
If our line was at least halfway more stable, it would be different. But it’s not.
And besides, making the draft choice feel like he has to work hard to earn his starting role is a good thing. It will make him appreciate it more.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:22 pm
This is worse than Tokyo Rose.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:23 pm
R.O. Says
“Because everyone here knows more about actually playing QB in the NFL than Dilfer.”
See? Comments like that would make sense if Dilfer never got it wrong. But he does. And he is this time too.
Just like he did when evaluating the SeaHawks 2011 draft.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Senor Mofo nailed it.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
And, incidentally, Dilfer criticized the Seahawks for taking Wilson in 2012 as well. He sure knows his QBs.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Ive seen enough of Glennon, remember the Cleveland game when he didnt have the arm strenghth to hit a wide open Evans several times for TDs.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:27 pm
yeah, remember the “ONE” time Glennon ….whatever
January 10th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Florida State is my college team I have a warrick Dunn autographed jersey hanging in my room.with that said I do not want Jameis Winston I do not like what I see from every single play that I’ve watched since he’s started.Marcus Mariota will be the next Aaron Rodgers.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Tampaaaaaaaaa
January 10th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
@ SAMCRO
Tokyo Rose……..LOL!!!
How ’bout “Tokyo Joes”
January 10th, 2015 at 1:37 pm
Hey if they draft Marcus ill be 100% behind him. But the truth is many nfl scouts, not guys doing mock drafts in their grandmothers garage, have concerns about the guy.
If you dont believe ot just google marcus mariota and you will see.
A nole fan didnt like a single play Winston made? Not even the winning td in the championship game? Tough fan!
January 10th, 2015 at 1:41 pm
I’m not falling for this BS this year.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:49 pm
If we draft that clown Winston, Lovie should be fired on the spot!!!
#MariotaorBUST
January 10th, 2015 at 1:52 pm
I’m enjoying this. Some of us are a$$holes, others merely ignorant, idiots, or delusional.
I shall add this. Anybody..expert..NFL QB..Coach…blogger whomever expresses with any certainty how the draft is going to go when we’re still in mid January and the NFL types are just now getting serious in their evaluations, are the ones who are truly delusional.
NOBODY knows how this will turn out. But that’s what makes if fun right? All the speculation.
BTW Anybody headed to next weekend’s Shrine Bowl in St. Pete. I’ve never gone but this year I’m sorely tempted. I’m sorry I missed Garapolo last year.
There will definitely be some gems on display and it might be worth a trip to Tropicana to check them out. If nothing else at least the ticket revenue is going to an awesome cause. What the Shriners do for sick children is simply off the charts!!!
January 10th, 2015 at 1:55 pm
I didn’t mean it that way I loved his play this year for the Seminoles in college.but I do not like him for the number one pick there’s just nothing too special about him.I think after all said and done ill be a little better than EJ Manuel I never miss a play on Florida State Games I promise you he’s not worth the number 1 pick.Marcus Mariota it has all the skills in the world to be a great NFL quarterback it’s not his fault he played for the system he was in.
January 10th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
Don’t think there is any way that Cooper would go #1. Just don’t see a WR being that important at that spot
January 10th, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Exactly why we should pass on QB at #1 and go with Leonard Williams….can start IMMEDIATELY!
8 games lost by 6 or less points
4 of those by 3 or less
….and how many 4th qtr leads did we give up? Leonard Williams completes our D right now! Our D Line will once again be feared!
January 10th, 2015 at 2:12 pm
Lovie will have an input….so will Koetter & Licht….but they will not make this decision…..it will rest with the Glazers. The only scenario where I could see them deferring is if all three were rock solid behind their recommendation for the pick.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Don’t forget that Dilfer coached Winston in the Elite 11 and predicted at the time that Winston would be a #1 pick in the draft. He LOVES Winston, just like everybody else who has ever coached him, played with him, spent any time with him.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:14 pm
NEWS FLASH!!!
Trent Dilfer sucks ass!!!
The best off season move in franchise history was not giving this turd another contract…
I don’t care what Dilfer says I just hope our next QB doesn’t suck as bad as he did…
January 10th, 2015 at 2:15 pm
Here’s a question for all of you with character concerns over Winston.
Russell Wilson is dating an “instagram model” by the name of Snow Phat. She describes herself as “the baddest b in the DMV.”
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/12/russell-wilson-rumored-to-be-dating-an-instagram-model-named-snow-phat.html
Substitute the name Jameis Winston for Russell Wilson here…..and just imagine the uproar. Imagine what people would be saying about Jameis.
I can guarantee you that for the last yr TMZ has had someone posted up in Tally following Jameis around on a day to day. Have you heard a peep about any transgressions? Any embarrassing phots? Embarrassing stories?
January 10th, 2015 at 2:16 pm
Either QB if drafted needs to sit until we know what the offensive line looks like in game action next year. Without significant improvement, feeding the rookie to the lions behind that line is asking to be David Carr’d.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
I’m already sick of this debate. Mariota supporters make me question their football I.Q. and I can’t take them seriously.
And the amount of plagiarism in these arguments make me sick. None of you clowns are original.
Keeping it football, there is no debate. Winston is clearly the Top QB in this draft. If you feel otherwise, please spare me the 6 paragraph idiots diatribe that I won’t read.
Thanks.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:21 pm
As a nole fan I think it will become clear how great he was now that we no longer have him.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:23 pm
lovie dovie is fighting to keep his job this year he is not going to start any rookie QB if he even drafts one! I would have no problem with drafting M.M and letting him hold a clipboard. lovie would just screw him up anyways!
January 10th, 2015 at 2:25 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
January 10th, 2015 at 12:35 pm
“Dilfer sucked so bad as a QB”
Because he was a poster boy for a player who came in as a spoiled rotten petulant star athlete. He is a great athlete and succeeded at multiple sports.
But he was uncoachable in his early years. And he had the QB coach who helped develop Joe Montana at SF and Boomer Esiason at Cincy but Dilfer came out knowing more than Wyche.
He’s speaking from his personal experience. He absolutely needed a a year or two to become even adequate. Luckily for Dilfer he grew up in time to at least salvage a decent career and a SB.
Dilfer is exactly the reason many of us are frightened about Jameis. We’ve already seen super athletes who come in as franchise saviors with great guns and way too much confidence, trying to squeeze in tight throws that NFL DB’s feast on.
—[-
I also think Dungy’s ultra-conservative playbooks from the 1970’s Steelers seriously stunted his growth. I’m not saying he would have been elite, but I think he could’ve been much better if he was matched up with a guy that could groom QBs and in a system where he could grow and flourish. If he had been drafted by the 49ers he could’ve had a far different career… then again, maybe he would’ve been another Jim Druckenmiller.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:27 pm
“We’ll do everything we can to find about the player,” Jason Licht said. “Because most misses in the draft and free agency are above the shoulder, so not the physical talent.”
“We want to make sure that they’re a good person, that they don’t have a lot of skeletons in their closet in terms of criminal acts and things like that. But we’re not looking for choir boys, either. I mean, we just want to make sure that these guys love football, are passionate about it and they wouldn’t know how to exist without the game. Because that’s the type of player we want, those are the types of players that are going to give 100% to learn the playbook, to give 100% on the practice field. Those are the types of players we want to be Bucs.”
Jason Licht’s on words in an interview he had with 620 WDAE with T.J. Rives…. IF, (BIG ole IF), Licht is a man of his word (unlike Lovie) then he could be giving fans an idea of who they are serious about and who they are not…
If Winston goes #1 pick, then anyone with skill regardless of what their character issues may be from now on should be taken…
Forget Integrity, honor and prestige for they will no longer exist when it comes to #1 over all pick!
January 10th, 2015 at 2:31 pm
@Brandon well said.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:40 pm
Brandon
I feel like you do about Dilfer. He was simply too immature when he came out. But if he had the opportunity like Aaron Rodgers to sit a couple of years behind an HOF QB he might have been a completely different player.
Now we’re clowns! LMAO. I love the way some of you think. Because you have a different opinion on a freaking football player anybody who disagrees with you is wrong. Maybe we need to add arrogant to our ad hom attacks eh.
Some of you are showing your lack of critical thinking skills. If you come here and cry about wasting your time, or having to wade through posts so far beneath your “expertise” can you not see by definition who the clown/idiots/ really are. In my family we had a saying. Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!
January 10th, 2015 at 2:42 pm
Some people could use a bit of an education to help their “debating” skills.
Definition of AD HOMINEM
1
: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2
: marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
Consider your posts. Are you actually making a rational point or simply calling other posters names? If you feel such a need to denigrate people with ad hom it actually shows your OWN horrible insecurity. Just sayin’
January 10th, 2015 at 2:43 pm
Who sits the #1 pick in the draft? That just sounds insane to me.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:46 pm
All of this sounded really good until you said “face of the franchise”
I agree that Jameis is the best choice to win now but something strikes me horribly wrong when I think Jameis Winston as the face of our franchise.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:46 pm
trent dilfer had a bucs 0-line that was crappier than this past years bucs o-line. trent was sacked and knocked down on the ground every play. what josh mccown went through this past year was nothing compared to what trent went through on the bucs. if the bucs draft pocket passer jameis they had better protect him better than with the current o-line. if not, draft mariota and let him run around like johnny football did at texas a&m.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
I’m not an expert on anything, but wouldn’t it make sense that those rookie QBs would do better coming from the spread offenses into the NFL if there was no offseason? I mean, a lot of the nuance and technical aspects of the defenses would have been learned in the offseason and if the other teams don’t have that then those two quarterbacks, having an offensive systems that mirrors what they just did in college, should be a step ahead of most teams, right?
January 10th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
Laughing with @StPeteBucsFan, Well said Sir! Im sure many here dont comprehend the meaning of critical thinking….and especially ad hominem.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:50 pm
This fan would have no problem with it. I don’t think qbs should start year one anyway. It’s a long term asset. The only question to me is he the better long term asset or Winston? Most rookie qbs struggle anyways there 1st year. Whats the rush we’ve sucked since gruden?? Mg can play.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:51 pm
The Bucs will no doubt investigate Jameis as well they should. I happen to believe when they talk to people who know the kid they will conclude he has good character and a great work ethic.
We shall see.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:52 pm
@stpetebucsfan- ok we all didn’t graduate from Harvard like you! don’t read other peoples post if it bothers you so much. you clown!!!!
January 10th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
I agree Eric. I think a lot of people only care to see the negative in Winston. Theres a lot of positive too, it just isnt in the headlines.
January 10th, 2015 at 2:57 pm
Dilfer was not ready for the NFL after 5 years……
January 10th, 2015 at 3:01 pm
Thanks for that compliment Mike. Nah I didn’t go to Harvard, just the lowly University of Cincinnati.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo resents all this discussion about AD HOMiNEM & appealing to PREJIDUCES. Pablo has limited experience with the English language but even Pablo knows that it has something to do with HOMOs…..Pablo is also not prejudiced….he has already stated his desire to bring in Mark Sanchez….or give Jeff Garcia a tryout….and we should add Louis Vasquez & Manny Ramirez to protect them.”
“Pablo will go with whoever TBBF wants”
January 10th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
you bet! and you don’t like the bengals? lol.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
StPeteBucsFan,
Here’s some critical thinking for you …
Please realize nobody is here to read your 10,000-word posts as most people are using their mobile devices to surf these here webpages and we’re not patient enought to type out 3 sentences much less read some article-sized drivel written from your PC.
This is a comment section, not a write-your-own-article section.
If you can’t make a point in 3 sentences, please refrain from commenting. It’s getting old.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
I have studied the Winston sexual assault allegations…..and I come away with some serious doubts….it is very possible that the accuser deemed this to be rape after the fact and not during. I seriously doubt that one of Jameis’ friends would be taping a rape in progress…….I am not blaming the victim either. I think the investigation was flawed and this is a very bad thing for both parties because the doubt will likely always remain.
Unfortunately for Winston, he will always have the doubt hanging over him and will have to lead an extraordinarily clean life in particular when it comes to women he dates. He is, as all those with money, open to extortion threats.
As for his character…I have absolutely no idea….but that insn’t good either. I would prefer to be convinced. But, for the fans that think it isn’t relevant…think again. In today’s NFL it is. And it will be for those making the draft decision. I wish them clarity with their investigation & interviews.
This is a very, very difficult decision facing the Bucs. I don’t do sports prayers…I save my prayers for something more vital….but those of you who do…Pray on!!!
January 10th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
The best player in this draft is hands down Jameis Winston. He is the best player in college football and best qb in college football. People forget how average Florida State football had become until he stepped in as the starter. Special players take a team to the next level and he did that from day one. In fact as a Noles fan I am very worried about them next year as I am not sure people no how good/important he truly was to the entire team. I have zero doubt he will also do that for whatever team does draft him. I just hope the Bucs are smart enough to not make us have to watch it from afar.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:17 pm
Somehow I doubt that any of us (including Joe) knows what type of offense Kirk Koetter will try to install (key word with our Bucs is ‘try’).
Given that, how can any of us know at this point which QB would best fit his preferred scheme?
Seeing the most recent trends in the NFL, I’d think that Marcus Mariota would provide the greatest flexibility in terms of scheme options, but that’s just one opinion. Only our new OC (and hopefully Lovie and Licht) know which direction the Bucs will opt to go next year and beyond.
Have no problem sitting a new QB for up to a year if he’s a 1st round pick, but after that he’d better get the reins. Tired of losing seasons.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
In about 15 minutes, Joe peeks into the crystal ball.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:20 pm
Ab-so-lutely!
January 10th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
So you are who you are at age 20 – hmmm
Thank God social media wasn’t around when I was 20
January 10th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
@aaron – I’m not interested in who Winston will be in life. Who he is at 35 and has hada chance to reflect and make better decisions is not what I care about. I don’t like turning the team over to a 20 year old that makes lots of dumb, high visibility decisions.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
@ St. Peter
THANKS!!!
January 10th, 2015 at 3:51 pm
@Clown
“Here’s some critical thinking for you …
Please realize nobody is here to read your 10,000-word posts”
Thanks for providing all with an example of hyperbole or exaggeration. NOBODY? Sorry but people have betrayed you here then because I get plenty or responses.
most people are using their mobile devices to surf these here webpages and we’re not patient enought to type out 3 sentences much less read some article-sized drivel written from your PC.
WOW! JUST WOW!!! I hate using my mobile because of inconvenience in sizing the page, longer load times etc, but my mobile allows me to simply put my finger on the freaking screen and scroll QUICKLY.
You btch about me writing more than 3 lines and took 10 lines to simply insult me. Apparently irony is also lost on you.
I am well aware that people see some of my longer posts and simply scroll because they’re too busy or simply do not wish to read anything I write.
I’m cool with that. All I can say CLOWN is get a freaking life…deal with your impatience or learn how to use one of your fingers to scroll.
You need to join a blog jihadist group that tells everybody else how to conduct their business.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
OMG… An NFL evaluator/scout/GM/coach. Missed on a player. Holy $hit that never happens. Belechik never missed on a draft pick. You ‘tard Bonzai. Seahawks can keep Wilson. Don’t want him. They don’t lose because of him. They certainly don’t win because of him.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
BTW Forgot one thing CLOWN
If you can’t make a point in 3 sentences, please refrain from commenting. It’s getting old.
May I respond with an old family refrain. Kiss my rosy red Irish A$$!!
If JOE is upset he can simply ban me. It’ JOE’s blog not YOURs. Because you’re too freaking dimwitted to scroll is not my problem. And remember what started this debate….None of you clowns are original.
I’m merely pointing out that your arrogance is only exceeded by your boorish manners.
January 10th, 2015 at 3:59 pm
@St.Pete,
Nice response. The Clown Boy does not speak for me. I happen to enjoy reading your posts. Clown Boy some how appointed himself to be the JBF comment Nazi.
Hey, Clown, don’t go away mad…just go away.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Mariota has a very good skill set as does Winston. I just prefer Mariota over Winston. If we take Winston I will be upset, but I’ll get used to it. However, the first time he gets in trouble or does a boneheaded move then you know this place will blow up with “I told you so”. I’m hoping both players excel in the NFL, but preferably the one we draft.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Thanks so much Dave. I’m well aware that some of my posts run longer.
I read everybody because I have time. I enjoy most. The only one’s who get to me are the freaking blog jihadists who think they are the ISIS of the internet able to tell the rest of us what to write.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:07 pm
@StPete, Im with you. Read or dont read. Those of us who’ve been here a while read through the opinions and at least try to respect each other. The new comers who dont will weed themselves out.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:16 pm
You and MANY others Sky. But his negatives (the proven) have been sensationalized more than the rest of his life. It is what sells and gets attention.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:16 pm
http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/1/9/7520293/2015-nfl-draft-praise-and-harsh-critiques-for-jameis-winston-on-the
Tl;Dr
‘Veteran draft analyst’ Russ Lande, of GM Junior, poses the question- “Is Jameis Winston even Draftable?” Eyeing him as a “late round pick” and likening him to Jay Cutler. For they share two of the same qualities, Really good, Not great arm talent; and a tendency to hit defenders square in the numbers.
That scares me Joe, and it certainly doesn’t scream First overall pick.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:25 pm
Winston is nothing like Cutler. Cutler had a below-60 percent completion percentage in college with is often a death-knell for NFL quarterbacks. Winston has about the opposite personality from Cutler’s “How quick can I get to the bar” mentality as one can get.
January 10th, 2015 at 4:49 pm
He is like Cutler, to an extent. In the sense that he makes questionable throws into coverage. I’ve watched numerous games of his where he’s throwing Int’s to underneath defenders dropping in front of his receivers, a common occurrence in the NFL, the game against Florida was a perfect example. And I’m not the only one who’s noticed…
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/2484384/nfl-draft-breakdown-of-jameis-winstons-four-ints-vs-florida
January 10th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
I would rather have a Mariota set on the bench for a year than a Shameis sitting in the Orient Street jail within a year. Trent Dilhole is such an ass, if he said it was sunny outside I would look out the window to see if it was
January 10th, 2015 at 4:53 pm
FSU-Buc fans are standing by with our credit cards.
Bryan and Joel…do the right thing!
January 10th, 2015 at 5:23 pm
Maybe that is why Buc fans are scarce. They are mostly FSU fans. Haha. JK. Let’s see…draft Winston for a couple of FSU fans or draft Mariota for 65% of Buc fans. Wonder which would sell more jerseys. My guess Mariota. I already got an Evans jersey so I’m not getting either QB until Mariota is gone.
January 10th, 2015 at 7:29 pm
Like we should listen to anything Dilfer says. Backed into the Pro Bowl, Care taker on a SB team (they just needed him not to LOSE). The most vivid memory I have of Dilfer is him coming out of college with everyone saying he was NFL ready and that he could make all the throws and then he proceeded to help Blow-Out Horace “Hi-C” Copeland’s knees because he couldn’t hit him in stride and he always had to come back to catch it. I wouldn’t listen to Dilfer if he was the last QB to ever touch the ball. Just like I give little credence to anything Shaun King says and I liked him.
January 10th, 2015 at 7:40 pm
SSG Mike, some have said that due to Winston’s throwing mechanics it can cause him to be a tick late. So could see that translating to the NFL as throwing behind receivers.
January 11th, 2015 at 1:27 am
Couple of things, and I’ll try to be brief as possible so I don’t annoy any impatient Clowns…yeah.
We sit here at listen with rapt attention to the waste coming out of Trent Dilfer’s mouth. Might I ask why? Trent Dilfer was inconsistent and had trouble running some very simplistic offenses. I don’t think some of you recall who was on Dilfer’s O-Line, the great Paul Gruber being his tackle. His O-Line was not horrible, in fact, its stability allowed the Bucs to be in playoff contention all the way until week 14 in 1995. After we were out of the playoffs, Sam Wyche planned to pull a very inconsistent Dilfer and play Casey Wheldon, upon which Dilfer blew up at Wyche and divided the locker room. Dilfer took so many hits, mostly because he held the ball too long, and then tended to miss his receivers badly, causing some to get injured while trying to catch un-catchable balls.
The point of this nostalgia is, if there is any former NFL QBs that I take seriously when they talk football, Trent Dilfer is not one of them. He was a mediocre NFL talent, even though he was lights out at Fresno St. He is the embodiment of what many people see Jameis as, “Pro-Ready” out of college, a top notch athlete, strong armed. I have watched Dilfer both as a player, and unfortunately as an analyst. He is mediocre at best as an analyst, I feel, because he has yet to frame an original thought about anything. Most of his predictions are almost carbon copy of what the majority of the talking heads produce. It just seems to me that if he hadn’t been on that Ravens team of 2000, he would have been no more of an after thought than say…Bert Jones, who in my opinion was a much better QB than Dilfer ever was.
St.PeteBuc…keep em coming. Some of us Bucs fans actually have an attention span longer than 3 seconds.
SSGMike, do you recall the play where Dave Moore had gotten so wide open and Dilfer did everything he could to overthrow him? If it wasn’t for him leaping to snag the ball one handed and falling down with the ball, it would have been another Dilfer overthrow of a wide open receiver. I recall saying thank God for Dave Moore!
January 11th, 2015 at 6:10 am
The draft is not about what the rookies can bring to the table in 2015, that is what you use FA for, the draft is to get the best guys for the next 10-15 years.
I’m all for Mariota if we can get a decade of great QB play from him after a year or 2 on the bench, Winston the other hand very likely won’t make it long due to being unable to get out of his own way.
If you are thinking short term you go Winston but even then he’s likely to struggle as most rookies do.
The best option is clean house at QB, take Mariota, sit him while a guy like Matt Moore is signed to be a bridge.
McClown & Glenda are simply not the answer unless the question is “which QB do you plan to start if you want to ruin your season before a single snap is taken.”
January 11th, 2015 at 10:11 am
Stillbleedorange
Your post is the perfect example of what I was trying to get across to Clown.
When I first saw it I thought…that’s long…but I started reading and you made such great points and refreshed my memory of Dilfer so well, I had forgotten the entire Weldon incident.
Well thought out and well written.
Here’s a tip you can’t take or forget I’m not the blog police nor any kind of expert.
Coming from a broadcasting/marketing background I can suggest the white space is your friend. If you break up your thoughts and then leave some white space between them they become easier to read and digest.
That’s nitpicking. 🙂 It was an excellent post.
January 11th, 2015 at 12:38 pm
Been saying since the Koetter hire that it opens the door to the very real possibility of the Bucs passing on both Mariota or Winston and going for Leonard Williams with the #1 pick. Granted I could be reading far too much into the OC hired, but it’s awful coincidental that the guy Lovie hires has had some success with a QB that has a more refined yet similar style of play to Glennon. I keep going back to Lovie saying he believes a great D/ST will win 10 games…if Lovie is on the hot seat what do you think he’ll do, risk his career on a rookie QB with flaws (one with NFL mechanics, one with maturity) or go for a pass rush coupled with an improved OL to protect Glennon and an OC that has a proven track record with limited mobility QB’s? With the first pick in the 2015 NFL draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select Leonard Willians, defensive tackle out of USC. BTW I’m a member of the ficticious MGM, so obviously I’m OK if this plays out (but I’m pretty much fine with any scenario as long as the team wins enough games to make the playoffs next year)
January 11th, 2015 at 2:15 pm
Funny if the Bucs draft neither of the two and they end up as good franchise quarterbacks. I say pick one. Bucs have nothing to lose. #1 draft picks don’t get $50-100 million out of college anymore. If neither work out, you have to take the risk and draft a QB until you get a franchise QB.