Many Fouled Up On 12th Man
December 1st, 2014
Joe thought it was honorable of Bucs head coach Lovie Smith to fall on his sword yesterday and say it was his responsibility to make sure there are not 12 men on the field (much less on consecutive plays).
He is right; at the end of the day, foul ups fall in the lap of the man in charge.
Joe has written you can decide for yourself who the guilty party was, per Josh McCown’s explanation. It frankly wasn’t Lovie. To hear from the man who hired Lovie to coach the Bears, as many as four assistant coaches were asleep at the switch.
Former Bears general manager Jerry Angelo, a former Bucs director of player personnel, does a weekly NFL question-and-answer piece with veteran sports columnist Gary Shelton at the author’s new site, GarySheltonSports.com. There he explained how most NFL teams have safeguards to prevent such a stunt.
How do most teams handle the counting of players? Whose responsibility is it?
The persons who are in the best position to see what’s going on are up in the box. As a rule, there are no less than 3 offensive assistants in the box. One of them should have caught the personnel mistake, as well as the on the field position coach. He above all should know what personnel package is on the field given the situation. You rarely see 12 offensive players in alignment on the field, as we did Sunday. Simple, because they know the play and who is supposed to be in the game. It was huge mistake, and it cost them the game.
For those asking, the Bucs wide receivers coach is Andrew Hayes-Stoker. Tight ends coach is Jon Embree. Just to refresh your memory, Oneil Cousins had checked in as a tight end to replace wide receiver Robert Herron.
Angelo noted that rarely do you see teams line up with 12 men and, apparently, the Bucs did this twice.
Unreal dysfunction there folks. And yes, as Lovie suggested, at the end of the day, that eventually falls on the desk of the head coach.
December 1st, 2014 at 3:32 pm
Ray jay home of 12th man!!!
December 1st, 2014 at 3:34 pm
The loss yesterday was the final nail in the coffin of the 2014 season. We can hope for continued improvement from some of our young talent but otherwise this team has been a total disaster. It’s not just the losing but the way we’ve lost.
Sometimes in life you run into better competition and you simply get beaten. If I give my best effort I can accept that. But the Bucs are LOSERS. That is they find a way to
December 1st, 2014 at 3:37 pm
Who cares about how many players were on the field? At least the players got to eat the pasta shapes they wanted and eat in a room where they decided the temperature. Having laid back, flip flop wearin’ Lovie as your coach has its advantages.
December 1st, 2014 at 3:52 pm
Lovie is a dinosaur….
if you watch HS footbll
if you watch college football
if you watch NFL football
the trend is wizz bang scoring
Lovie is a fine man
December 1st, 2014 at 3:52 pm
“Let’s bungle in the jungle”. Jethro Tull must of wrote that in reference to the Bucs.
December 1st, 2014 at 4:01 pm
Probably have Cousins as a running back next week
December 1st, 2014 at 4:20 pm
RastaMon Says:
December 1st, 2014 at 3:52 pm
Lovie is a dinosaur….
if you watch HS footbll
if you watch college football
if you watch NFL football
the trend is wizz bang scoring
Lovie is a fine man
——
You’re probably one of the geniuses that was saying the T-2 has run it’s course and is outdated…now the D is playing some excellent ball. Give Smith the 2nd year that Schiano wasn’t overwhelmingly deserving of. (2012 collapse, nearly worst pass defense in league history, rushing the kneel down plays, etc). At least with Smith you can see the team improving every week. Add 8 points offensively to this current team and they are easily in the driver’s seat for the NFC South.
December 1st, 2014 at 4:26 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
December 1st, 2014 at 3:34 pm
The loss yesterday was the final nail in the coffin of the 2014 season. We can hope for continued improvement from some of our young talent but otherwise this team has been a total disaster. It’s not just the losing but the way we’ve lost.
Sometimes in life you run into better competition and you simply get beaten. If I give my best effort I can accept that. But the Bucs are LOSERS. That is they find a way to
————————
So you’d rather have us lose in uncompetitive blowouts like we did against Atlanta and Baltimore? Or in the last 4 games of the Raheem Morris era or like we did 7 times last season (including 3 of our last 4 games)? We’ve had 10 competitive games this season, or in other words, one more competitive game than we had all of last season despite playing four fewer games. Sorry, there’s not much talent on this roster, so that is considered progress whether you agree or not.
December 1st, 2014 at 4:26 pm
@Brandon….associate me with things I say…not what you imagine I mght have said or may say….
I did say this and have not see anything to change my mind….and I am not holding my breath…
after the season home opening game…
Lovie is in WAY over his head….I listened to his press conference yesterday and was underwhemled by his monotoned empty words…then by chance I listened to a long interview with #55 on all sorts of subject…a stark contrast in leadership and answering questions. Lovie is an empty suit that has been swept to this point in life by his association with the greatness of others. I don’t mean to be harsh…but that is what I see……
December 1st, 2014 at 4:42 pm
Amen Rasta
December 1st, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Brandon — Raise your standards sir. This team is not improving. Lovie is a stubborn dinosaur who willbe out of work in 2 years along with 8.
December 1st, 2014 at 4:49 pm
lovies just collecting a check, the others follow suit
er… empty suit.
i am no for another coaching change, but this is what i see.
so, their screwed either way. they are not going to fire him, and i am not going to waste another sunday on them until 2016 the way it looks right now.
December 1st, 2014 at 4:53 pm
the real idiots are the glazer boys for not seeing this in the interview process.
they saw dollar signs on lovie bringing fans back, but forgot to really interview the man and see if he had any fire.
no fire there. 56-0 in the 3rd qtr and he’s stonefaced????? thats when I knew we were done. he should have been in the face of every coach and every player on the team. he should have cursed and screamed at everyone, including the dog.
nah, not lovie. he just collectin dat check.
December 1st, 2014 at 5:03 pm
I agree that others should have noticed 12 men on the field beyond Lovie,
but this part is the coach
– no tight ends so you bring in your worst lineman to act as one. How about just changing up the offensive design so you don’t need that position for this game.
– a back up center that has never at any level played center. How is that possible at this level.
Why are we putting people in positions they don’t know or practice. This is on the head coach!
December 1st, 2014 at 5:06 pm
I love how the Schiano haters / Lovie schills say there is no talent on this team. BS. Almost every media type before the season picked the Bucs to go to the playoffs based on their talent and a new coach. Some were even stupid enough to pick them to go to the Super Bowl. Herm Edwards being one of them, so he knows talent.
There is plenty of talent on this team, just no talent amongst the coaches.
December 1st, 2014 at 5:07 pm
Brandon is Jason Licht or someone close to Lovie. He actually literally said in another post the Bucs are a good QB away from being, and I quote “Contenders”. Yeah…..
December 1st, 2014 at 5:09 pm
yeah…the G’Boyz have a huge amount of blame…starting with KNOWing that Lovie was the answer…instead of hiring a GM first….which is why the franchise needs to untangle this mess ASAP….bye…bye … L&L….
December 1st, 2014 at 5:49 pm
I’m convinced Brandon = Lovies son the safeties coach. Whatever his name is.
Joe we should have put Michael Johnson out there instead of cousins. No one would have noticed mj. HA! I’m here all week folks, don’t forget to tip your bartenders.
December 1st, 2014 at 6:53 pm
on the FIRST day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, A PATHETIC LOSING QB. on the SECOND day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the THIRD day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the FOURTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the FIFTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS,THREE FUMBLES LOST,TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the SIXTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST,TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the SEVENTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING,FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST,TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the EIGHTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, EIGHT MEN A SULKING, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the NINTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, NINE LADIES CRYING,EIGHT MEN A SULKING, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the TENTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, TEN POINTS A LOSING, NINE LADIES CRYING, EIGHT MEN A SULKING, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING,SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING,FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB, on the ELEVENTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, ELEVEN PENALTYS, TEN POINTS A LOSING, NINE LADIES CRYING, EIGHT MEN A SULKING, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB. on the TWELTH day of CHRISTMAS my lovie sent to me, TWELVE DUMBERS PLAYING, ELEVEN PENALTYS, TEN POINTS A LOSING, NINE LADIES CRYING, EIGHT MEN A SULKING, SEVEN POINTS A SHAVING, SIX MEN NOT PLAYING, FIVE YARDS RUSHING, FOUR CALLING REFS, THREE FUMBLES LOST, TWO DEFENSIVE DUDS, and a PATHETIC LOSING QB. merry Christmas everyone.
December 1st, 2014 at 9:13 pm
I guess if Lovie’s talent evaluation is as terrible as it is with players, why should we expect any different from positions coaches?
Joe, do you have any info on how many position coaches in Dungy’s first year were still there in the second? Or any HC for that matter… I seem to recall a lot of changing of position coaches after our coaches’ first years.
I certainly think our d-line and o-line coaches are garbage. Do we even have a QB’s coach?
December 1st, 2014 at 9:15 pm
@ihatelovie
Epic! 5 yards of rushing. HA!
December 1st, 2014 at 9:21 pm
@IHATELOVIESMITH- too funny man lmfao. but true!
December 1st, 2014 at 9:23 pm
lovies a idiot should not be head coach or any coach for that matter on any team.
December 1st, 2014 at 9:26 pm
@ ZAM YES QB COACH IS ARROYO ALSO THERE OC
December 1st, 2014 at 9:30 pm
ihateloviesmith,
Love it! Saving it! Twelve dumbers playing – no wonder he was wide open yesterday!