“Coach Frazier Is Taking Control Of Everything”
December 16th, 2014
Lavonte David said today that he’s been pretty pleased with his play this season.
But David also illuminated some of what’s gone wrong with the Bucs defense.
David joined Ron and Ian on WDAE-AM 620 this afternoon and multiple times cited “a lot of communication errors” early in the season.
He talked about “knowing where the next guy fits” taking time, and David said going forward “it’s a lot more learning for me.”
On Lovie Smith, David said “he still has that fire in him” and that despite losing, Lovie is still the same guy, not pointing fingers, holding everybody accountable.”
Interestingly, when pressed about the delineation of duties when it comes to coaches running the defense, David said Lovie Smith is more of a CEO type who lets his people work.
“Coach Frazier is taking control of everything,” David said.
December 16th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
That’s probably the problem with the offense this season. Under the circumstances they needed a hands on guy.
December 16th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
2-12.
It’s not working!
December 16th, 2014 at 3:24 pm
lovie is the CEO type.. lol
the one who blames everyone else and then moves on.
December 16th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
Would I take any player statements in an interview as gospel? Of course not! However, David does raise a point of concern and may be speaking candidly further to the entire mindset of Bucs structure. A total reexamination of the team, top to bottom, is needed. Is Lovie Smith the guy to do that? No! Not even close. Not in your worst nightmare.
December 16th, 2014 at 3:56 pm
Never thought Frazier was the right hire. We only got him because Dallas made Marinelli defensive coordinator
December 16th, 2014 at 3:59 pm
Okay…for you Fire Lovie types, who exactly do you think will replace him? Do you think _______ can come in and make this team a playoff team in 1 year? Are you prepared for ANOTHER team overhaul? Are you going to cry, piss, and moan when our first year QB doesnt throw 6000 yards and 70 tds? Are you going to fire THAT coach too? What if Bill Bellicheck comes in and LIES and misleads? Because he wins, maybe, 4 games, that’ll be okay?
You guys are ignorant to football and life. It takes time to build a team. It.tajes time to evaluate a new roster, it takes time to develop a QB. And MOST coaches mislead the media and opposing teams. Sometimes the fans get caught between too. It’s football! Not everything is Xs and Os. Stop being fair weather fans and start to appreciate the little things we have. Lovie will turn the ship around in a year or two. Give it some damn time!
December 16th, 2014 at 4:00 pm
@Robert 9,
I get why you don’t like Lovie. He is the head coach of a 2-12 team. Even though I still have confidence in Lovie, if I had to grade his performance this year I would give him a F. However, where are you and others getting this idea that he is blaming everyone else? I have yet to hear him blame anyone but himself, which he has done on numerous occasions. He hasn’t called out individuals in the media, which I think is actually something he probably should have done (to light a fire under them, i.e. Michael Johnson).
Again, I’m not saying you are wrong for disliking Lovie. He’s done plenty to earn that. However, I think your dislike for him is clouding your judgement of him at the same time. You are implying things that aren’t there to fit your agenda. I don’t see the purpose in piling on and making things up when you can stick to the facts and he already looks bad.
December 16th, 2014 at 4:25 pm
explains a lot of the offensive problems…
December 16th, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Hawaiian, I was thinking the same thing.
December 16th, 2014 at 4:32 pm
@john, oh we’re ignorant? No you moron….latest example of Lovie AND FRAZIER’s bad decision making, still playing the highest paid DT in this past weekends meaningless game AFTER he just injured his knee in the prior meaningless game….and I’ll be damned if he doesnt get injured again!….and thats just part of the list of the cons vs the pros!
Call me fair weather for not wanting to risk injury to McCoy? So what would you have done GENIUS?
December 16th, 2014 at 4:37 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo likes Frazier….Pablo likes Lovie….Pablo liked Schiano……Pablo loves Rah…..Pablo thinks Chucky’s cute”
December 16th, 2014 at 4:44 pm
The BEST thing about replacing him and the whole lot NOW vs LATER? Its only been a year, we didnt have an OC anyway, and we can still take advantage of SOME of this young talent we have out there before its too late, the window is closing! Besides, L&L said it themselves “We’re not rebuilding, we’re playoff bound now, the fans deserve it” (something like that) … well well well, boy did they disappoint!!!!!!!!!!
And Im glad our getting pissed and fired up about all of this OFFENDS you, the ONE whose OK with mediocrity, the ONE who can sit back comfortably and snarl his nose at the negative comments he cant stand to read, THE ONE who is OK with a (supposedly experienced) LOVIE & LICHT professional combination who cant beat out LAST YEAR’s 4-12 MRSA team!!!
December 16th, 2014 at 4:53 pm
Lovie Smith CEO guy, Marcus Arroyo Mailroom guy
December 16th, 2014 at 4:56 pm
@John ValentI says:
“…Do you think _______ can come in and make this team a playoff team in 1 year?… You guys are ignorant to football and life…. it takes time to develop a QB… Stop being fair weather fans…”
John, you had a decent post until you started calling others ignorant. First, I don’t think anyone expects a one year turn around. BUT, Lovie has a history of being a poor (i am being kind here) overseer on the O side of the ball. 2nd, he is demonstrating to be a horrific talent evaluator; most of the Onplayers are ones Lovie chose, at least the ones that are failing miserably, right? Since talent is apparently what we lack, is this the guy you want building the talent base?? What Lovie has clearly demonstrated is he is so bad at picking talent he could set the Bucs back YEARS if given another year. 3rd, Lovie is choosing to NOT develop a QB – he refuses to play The Future and McCown has had 13 years to “develop”.
Lastly, you are ignorant if you think your opinion is the “be all, end all” on what is good for the Bucs. I have been a Buc fan for 25 years, so I am far from being a “fair weather” fan. See if you can make a post without insulting the few of us in here who try to keep it civil
December 16th, 2014 at 4:57 pm
hawain “However, where are you and others getting this idea that he is blaming everyone else?”
how about when he did not call a time our when the defense was gassed. we lost the game and the next day he said he did not believe in fatigue. I call that passing the buc
how about his comments on “true fans”? I translate that to mean only the casual fan could be so stupid as to not buy in. i.e. it’s our fault we’re upset because we are casual fans
saying we’re in all but 2 games. REALLY? o me that puts the blame squarely on luck or chance, when in reality our opponents have been playing down to our level
and some simple decisions that wreak setting up a fall guy. like not bringing someone in to help on the OC side…even a consultant. really, after 56-0 in the 3rd qtr? really.
maybe I am projecting my thoughtson the future based on my belief that he is just collecting a check and would love to get fired. Too many bad decisions for a man at his level for it not to be intentional. and someone is going to be to blame. based on his previous actions it will be dumb luck i guess.
December 16th, 2014 at 4:58 pm
MadMax, they miss you at the Thunderdome. I was angry 10 weeks ago as well, but now it’s acceptance and just moving forward, hoping for the best in the future. Firing L&L etc. won’t bring any continuity, or better results. Look, the defense is actually starting to play better. It is working, just very slowly. If they get a couple decent Olinemen in the offseason and hopefully a franchise QB, then next year will be ok and 2016 could be playoff time. It is what it is.
December 16th, 2014 at 5:02 pm
To pile on Biff’s “2-12”, consider this: what is scarier than our record is that the players held over from Rock Star’s cast are the onescwho are doing SUBSTANTIAL better then those hand picked by Lovie. This is the CEO we want building our roster?? I think NOT!
December 16th, 2014 at 5:08 pm
Of course they miss me, I was their Super Star!
I agree with you though Buctebow, but will they make the right decisions? Are we going to be another heavily penalized team? Schiano only had 2 years exp as HC and did soooo much better than this crapfest! Not at all what I was expecting…after being told to expect more. And Im ok with some disappointment, I can roll with the punches too, but theres a whole lot of BS going on with this organization.
December 16th, 2014 at 5:12 pm
But hey, we’re probably getting the 1st overall pick!! Im happy about that 🙂
Too bad L&L put us in this position, but it is what it is. And hopefully they wont screw this one up too if they’re still here. I saw this coming about half way into the season, was just worried that another team might actually suck more than us, but NOPE, so far its us 🙂
December 16th, 2014 at 5:47 pm
To be offended at being called ignorant seems to be par for the course around here. There is a vast difference between being ignorant, and being stupid. That being said, to focus on one perceived to be insulting line in the middle of an otherwise decent post…well that I will call ‘Stupid’. (Insert outraged self-righteous comment here)
For those of us who lived through the hideous late 70’s and most of the 80’s, we knew this is exactly what to expect when a new regime takes over from a previous one that was horrible. The new regime placates the fan base with reassurances of “this isn’t a rebuilding year”, and “we have the talent to win”. Sam Wyche, anyone? I fear in today’s world of instant gratification, and lower patience levels, some fans just don’t understand that sometimes it takes a bit more time than expected to repair something to be better than it was before. This whole Glennon vs McCown thing is nothing more than Chuck Fusina vs Jackie Thompson 2.0, and it isn’t any better than the original, let me tell you. I honestly think Thompson had a marginally better offensive line than Glennon/McCown have today. (Chuck Fusina left the Bucs to lead the Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars to three USFL title games.)
The point is, it will get better. Changes will be made, and hopefully some smarter people than I will be able to better evaluate talent and build this team into the winner we all want to see and support. But in the meantime, let’s keep our heads and hearts closer to reality. For better or worse, Lovie is our coach for the near future. His next two years will determine if he is our coach beyond that.
Y’all try and have a nice day, and Merry Christmas!
December 16th, 2014 at 6:02 pm
John Valenti Says:
December 16th, 2014 at 3:59 pm
Okay…for you Fire Lovie types, who exactly do you think will replace him? Do you think _______ can come in and make this team a playoff team in 1 year? Are you prepared for ANOTHER team overhaul? Are you going to cry, piss, and moan when our first year QB doesnt throw 6000 yards and 70 tds? Are you going to fire THAT coach too? What if Bill Bellicheck comes in and LIES and misleads? Because he wins, maybe, 4 games, that’ll be okay?
You guys are ignorant to football and life. It takes time to build a team. It.tajes time to evaluate a new roster, it takes time to develop a QB. And MOST coaches mislead the media and opposing teams. Sometimes the fans get caught between too. It’s football! Not everything is Xs and Os. Stop being fair weather fans and start to appreciate the little things we have. Lovie will turn the ship around in a year or two. Give it some damn time!
——
I agree. The Patriots wasn’t built in a season. They were 5-11 in retread Belichick’s first season. He might’ve won more, but he wanted to build a lasting contender. He stuck to his guns and built his team the way he wanted…and it took time. This despite him taking the Browns to the playoffs ONE freaking time in 5 seasons. Not including the playoffs, the Pats were 2 games over .500 during his first 3 seasons…then they became a perennial power.
Lovie comes to the Bucs with an even more impressive resume than Belichick did. He won Super Bowls as an assistant, and took a terrible team to the Super Bowl. Before Lovie got to the Bears, they had two head coaches after Mike Ditka, both had losing records and only took the team to the playoffs once… that’s two playoff appearances from the time Lovie got there, to Ditka’s last playoff appearance in 1991. That’s 12 seasons and a grand total of 2 playoff appearances and 3 winning records and Lovie came in, did things his way and went 5-11 his first year and then the playoffs the next two years… WITH REX “FREAKING” GROSSMAN at QB. Not Tom Brady, REX GROSSMAN!!!
It takes time. I agree with John and I wish he would post more. Maybe he shouldn’t have called out the haters as ignoramuses but like me, he’s probably sick of the knee-jerk comments and hatred.
December 16th, 2014 at 6:06 pm
IStillbleedOrange Says:
December 16th, 2014 at 5:47 pm
To be offended at being called ignorant seems to be par for the course around here. There is a vast difference between being ignorant, and being stupid. That being said, to focus on one perceived to be insulting line in the middle of an otherwise decent post…well that I will call ‘Stupid’. (Insert outraged self-righteous comment here)
For those of us who lived through the hideous late 70′s and most of the 80′s, we knew this is exactly what to expect when a new regime takes over from a previous one that was horrible. The new regime placates the fan base with reassurances of “this isn’t a rebuilding year”, and “we have the talent to win”. Sam Wyche, anyone? I fear in today’s world of instant gratification, and lower patience levels, some fans just don’t understand that sometimes it takes a bit more time than expected to repair something to be better than it was before. This whole Glennon vs McCown thing is nothing more than Chuck Fusina vs Jackie Thompson 2.0, and it isn’t any better than the original, let me tell you. I honestly think Thompson had a marginally better offensive line than Glennon/McCown have today. (Chuck Fusina left the Bucs to lead the Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars to three USFL title games.)
The point is, it will get better. Changes will be made, and hopefully some smarter people than I will be able to better evaluate talent and build this team into the winner we all want to see and support. But in the meantime, let’s keep our heads and hearts closer to reality. For better or worse, Lovie is our coach for the near future. His next two years will determine if he is our coach beyond that.
Y’all try and have a nice day, and Merry Christmas!
—–
Where have these voices of reason been the past few weeks?
I for one, have seen tremendous improvement on this team. Think of it this way. The Panthers scored one TD on the Bucs on Sunday… that TD drive was 4 yards. The Panthers were motivated and fresh off a complete manhandling of the Saints in always tough New Orleans, outscored the Saints something like 41-3, and we lost by 2 in Carolina. Don’t you think that if we can seriously upgrade ourselves at QB and OC that we will be winning these games? I’m excited for next season…but first, the bowl games, then the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, then the Combine, then the draft…but I’m excited.
December 16th, 2014 at 6:40 pm
You could be talking about the Rays lack of hitting and the people who constantly harp on Lovie, Robert 9, would blame it on Lovie.
Because of that, you people really do lack any type of credibility.
December 16th, 2014 at 6:46 pm
If the shoe fits, wear it. I too, have been a Bucs fan for life and my point is, we’ve always been mediocre save ONE season. We have been the epitome of mediocre and the reason is knee jerk reactions to coaches and players. More specifically we’ve trashed numerous QBs and coaches and run them out of town. We have NO PATIENCE as a fan base and react as though we once held this great dynasty.
It took Lovie 3 years to get the Bears to the SB. He did so with Rex Grossman and people dont realize this but they had the 3rd ranked offense thar year. Crazy, I know. Lovie passed the torch of D to Frazier who he trusts. And the D has improved. Have you seen the stat where we’ve lost by ONE score 8 times? Have we not been in position to win numerous times late in games? Lovie does not fumble. He does not throw redzone picks. He does not make penalties late in games. You can only.teach so much.
Yes, McCown was his hand picked QB and he has failed us. YES, the oline was rebuilt and has been a huge disappointment. These are mistakes. They happen. Lovie is a pro coach who can turn.things around. Not in one year. And our 1st rd QB wont do it in one year either. AND JESUS himself will not come here and turn this team into an instant contender. It takes time. All the great coaches and QBs need time.
Had David said that Lovie is more hands on, instead of.letting Frazier do his.job, you would complain that Lovie meddled too much. It’s a lose lose. And my ignorant comment was that you (these fan types in.general) are IGNORANT and lack understanding as to what it takes to build a team. I compared it to life, because well, if you act this way about football you must really lose it when dinner doesn’t come out on time.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:10 pm
Chiefs,Falcons,Saints,49ers and the Seahawks. All recent examples of teams that changed coaches and made the playoffs! It can and should be done!
December 16th, 2014 at 7:15 pm
@ John, mediocre? We’re not even there. Historically the worst winning pct.
mediocrity would be welcome!
December 16th, 2014 at 7:25 pm
shut up! valentine. your the one who is IGNORANT you don’t even know any of these people personally. and u sit there and type how people live there lives. we just vent that’s our god given right. if u don’t like it don’t read it! I personally didn’t expect playoffs. but after all of his the fans deserve to win now! and crap. wtf this guy acts like a rookie coach period! and from what he has done to this team he deserves every bit of this. go head vent people anyway u like.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:31 pm
@john, for you to take my opinion about my team that I follow, and cheer for, and criticize it when I want (its an opinion)….and turn that into how I conduct my life says a lot more about you than me.
But really, I couldnt care any less of what you thought of me and my life, so have at it. Thats how it usually goes with people like you. You have to resort to personal attacks because your subject matter for the RELEVANT argument is failing. Well done.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:36 pm
@MADMAX- watch out pal Brandon found a friend. hahaha!
December 16th, 2014 at 7:40 pm
LOL! The anger is REAL! If you take sports comments personally, well, you’ve got bigger fish to fry and should probably be on Dr. Phil blogs. Mike H.(hatesLife?)
Dungy just came out and said Lovie was taken for granted in CHI. How true is that? The team went from 10 win seasons to out of contention.
If you stop getting hung up on the “ignorant” comment (“maaaaa where’s my meatloaf?!?”) you’d see the message is.to have some patience. Patience would have worked with Steve Young, Doug Williams, Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, and quite possibly, Josh Freeman. (I know that’s a sore subject) Gonna be awhile till we see 3500 yards, 25 tds and 6 INTS. Was a long time before him too.
Gruden’s problem was patience. He didn’t want to develop a QB, would rather bring in game worn vets. Always wanted to reload not rebuild. It cost him his job.
Bears ownership/front office was unhappy winning 10 games a year (a luxury we would LOVE to have) so they canned the defensive minded coach for an offensive guru. Now they are offensive (very) and not very good on D.
The Bucs are a few key pieces away from being very good. The defense is close to great and continuity at coaching positions is a key. McCoy and.David.would be on their 3rd scheme in as many years with a new coach. Same for the young players on O. Hard to believe in a system that is constantly changing.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:41 pm
looks like this john guy needs one….just in case dinner is late (projection maybe?)
December 16th, 2014 at 7:45 pm
@john, that was then and this is now…..now dont go screaming at your wife and kids because I finally brought you to this realization. Now you know. Thank me later.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:49 pm
bla bla bla he said she said bla bla bla what ever eat your meatloaf. mouth! im sure u never dish anybody in sports. bla bla bla!
December 16th, 2014 at 7:52 pm
I actually think the defense has played pretty good, and If that falls on Leslie Frazier so be it, but if Lovie was truly a CEO of the team be would’ve hired an offensive Coordinator to run Telford’s offense after He know that Jeff wasn’t coming back, IMO that’s highly short sited, The defense has played well for 8 games, but the Offense hasn’t improved any, Now it’s the poor offense that’s hanging our defense out to dry.
If Lovie was a CEO he would have fired Warhop by now, and Replaced him with someone competent, Lovie’s incompetent offensive line is effecting the offense which in turn is effecting his defense.
If Lovie was a true CEO he would’ve fired his special teams coach by now.
The special teams has more problems that the offensive line, which affects the starting field position for said crappy offense.
Successful CEOs adapt to problems, and make changes immediately to fix them once they arise. Knowing that one bad cog in the system could gum up production, and value down the line.
Look at the Cardinals they’re winning with a 3rd quarterback, backup defense lineman, and linebackers, yet they keep rolling, and keep winning!
Here in Tampa the Bucs have been stuck with an offense that can’t put up more than 17 points, a bad quarterback, no real quart
December 16th, 2014 at 7:53 pm
Mad Max, did you imply the Bucs screwed up their first round draft pick? Because Mike Evans has been a standout this year even with HORRIBLE QB play. He has outplayed VJax, catches almost everything, and leads the team in TDs. He is a surefire ROY and one of the better WRs in a RIDICULOUSLY GOOD WR class. He is a bright spot on a poor.offense. Mind you, fans wanted Manziel (see his stat line last game please) I myself wanted Bortles but I’m thankful we didn’t get him OR Teddy B because those.guys need time and CLEARLY some of you fellas’ don’t have it. Mariota and Winston will likely need time too. Both will be joining a brand new offense next year and what will likely be another patchwork offensive line that needs TIME to gel.
You have to have patience. No one has answered me as to who you’d like to see replace Lovie. Harbaugh? Are you prepared to give up a 1st round pick for him? Everything comes with a price. The price for TIME is merely a season or so of games.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:54 pm
No offensive coordinator, or progress on made on the offensive side at all.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:56 pm
he is no belichick and never will be. owners don’t fire coaches because there great.
December 16th, 2014 at 7:58 pm
Have we EVER had a good special teams? Let’s hire a new OC midseason.
Let’s hire a new Special Teams coach midseason.
Let’s fire our 3rd HC in 4 years. As a matter of fact let’s PAY TWO head coaches who no longer coach for.us, trade some draft picks for a 3rd one and pay him handsomely too.
I love your thinking. Lmao. Joe? Where are you?
December 16th, 2014 at 8:01 pm
They almost ran Coughlin out of town in NY. Glad they didn’t two SBs later. Bellichick took over for a Parcells built team btw, and INHERITED Tom Brady. But he has built the team with no names and a team first mentality.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Licht had his hands on the Cardinals team AND the Pats. Also helped build the Chiefs that went 2 wins to playoffs, no?
December 16th, 2014 at 8:03 pm
@ANOTHERJ- yes but he is a sit back and let everybody else work kind of CEO. so why is he there again? wow!
December 16th, 2014 at 8:06 pm
@john, yes we did have a pretty good special teams the previous 2 years, but they couldnt do it all…..where were you again?
December 16th, 2014 at 8:12 pm
LOVIES HERE CUZ HIS GREAT EYE FOR TALENT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:19 pm
@robert9,
I have no understanding of your translations whatsoever. Again, I understand your dislike for his performance, but you are completely twisting his words to the point where you sound ridiculous.
As an example, saying we were in all but 2 games doesn’t mean we weren’t lucky. How in the hell did you draw that conclusion? First of all, we were in all but two games. You know why we lost? Because we didn’t make the plays we needed to make. Guess what – that’s EXACTLY what he said. How you can translate that to the other team got lucky is beyond me.
He said they didn’t lose because of fatigue, not that he didn’t believe that fatigue is a real thing. All he’s doing is not making an excuse for the loss, because believe me, if he did, you and half of Tampa would be screaming that he is making excuses. Please tell me otherwise.
I didn’t like the “true fans” comment either, but I don’t make the connection between that statement and making excuses. You’re going to have to expand on that.
As for not bringing in another OC, I don’t know who the hell else he could have brought in. Who is jobless that could do it? There is only one guy that coached with Tedford before. Guess who? Do you understand that you can’t install a whole new offensive system in the middle of the season? It’s not possible, and if we did, we would be 0-14 right now. Besides, he thought Tedford was going to be back. By the time he knew he wouldn’t, it was way too late.
I don’t believe for a second that any coach is coaching to just collect a check. Unless you have hard evidence, I’m calling complete BS on that. Do you have any idea how many hours a head coach in the NFL works? Any concept whatsoever? Obviously not. How about all the stress that comes along with it? You don’t think TV wouldn’t go crazy for him? He doesn’t need money, and he certainly doesn’t have to get it from coaching in the NFL. That claim is ludicrous, and you should be ashamed for even implying it.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:26 pm
Hey some sanity on this thread!!! Totally agree with “bleed orange” John Valenti and Brandon.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Valentini… Schiano could come back and it would be a HUGE improvement over the train wreck of leadership that we have now! Yes,.. there are a lot of us who are on the GET RID OF SMITH bandwagon., and your question about who could possibly be any better is laughable!
December 16th, 2014 at 8:38 pm
or some insanity, or ineptness at the ability to draw some conclusions as to why we are where we are, and how we got here
(just doing enough to get my check)
Once again, example: playing the highest paid DT in a meaningless game, risking injury again after being injured in the prior meaningless game, and he gets injured even more this time around!!!!!!
You cant argue against that! I dont know if its insanity or lazy decision making or just absolute knuckle headed being a hard head stubborn! I thought they were better than this….call me insane all you want.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:48 pm
Rich Biasccia had good special teams!
December 16th, 2014 at 9:53 pm
Robert 9
“how about when he did not call a time our when the defense was gassed. we lost the game and the next day he said he did not believe in fatigue. I call that passing the buc”
Idiot certainly fits you, Robert. Banned 8 times and back for more?
Every one of those points are stupid. Tony Dungy dealt with the fatigue issue in his first year, and said the same thing.
The rest of your coments are just too ignorant to address.
December 16th, 2014 at 10:09 pm
If Lovie is more of a CEO then you guys cannot blame him if offense or defense is screw8ng up. The 0oordinstora are to blame, and they will be replaced is off season.
And, as to talent evaluation, what draft picks have not worked out for Lovie?
Head coach picks college draft picks, he and gm discuss other needs and the gm finds free agents to fill them, with HC getting the final okay.
What free agents have not worked out?
Mankins cannot fill the role of the entire oline, no matter how much he tries.
Michael Johnson ? Played through injuries in a new system all year. With Frazier in charge. Get Rod in here and he’s be better.
The center was the only bad big signing, and he carries no cap hit if the cut him, so his contract was essentially a one year deal. So there could not have been confidence in him to start with.
Mike Jenkins? A minor role player given a second chance.
I said this BEFORE training camp…with all the turnover, there was no way they could strike gold on even half the new players. The odds were too great. So filling holes for the season was the only option.
Common sense, a wonderful thing.
December 16th, 2014 at 10:11 pm
@MadMax
Embrace the idiot label. Take pride in it. I do. 😉
December 16th, 2014 at 10:32 pm
I don’t know BucBonzai; it seemed so apparent to everyone that Marcus Arroyo was over his head that if Lovie was a competent CEO/HC he would have done something to help but instead he let the offense become such a laughingstock? If Lovie is hands off, was it Arroyo’s idea to switch back to McNown and basically shelving Glennon instead of allowing him to gain some game experience and continue his evaluation? Did Arroyo decide that Glennon is not the future all by himself??? Arroyo had exactly 2 seasons of familiarity of Tedford’s offensive schemes as a qb coach and then was asked to run that offense as OC with carte blanche? Man that just seems grossly incompetent.
Now Lovie is not going anywhere, I agree there is no way the Glazers fire him with Schiano’s contract still open but how about the Glazers forcing him to fire more people than just ST coach O’dea, OC Arroyo and most of the offensive coaching staff? How about forcing him to let Licht go or reassign him to some sort of player development title and bring in a strong GM who handles all personnel decisions and reports directly to the ownership and not Lovie? Lovie can not make any argument that can support keeping Licht after his track record this season; he got a stud with Evans but missed the mark on everything else but the decision to save $2 million by releasing Connor Barth and going with a rookie kicker. Licht’s record as a GM is about the same as the Bucs on the field; 2 right moves and well over a dozen bad decisions. That should force ownership to seriously think about bringing in a new GM and some new eyes to evaluate talent….
December 16th, 2014 at 10:35 pm
Bonzai you know me, couldnt care less about any label from anyone…..its all good, we’re all sharing what we think about our team, agreements or not. Its those few others who cross the line and try to make it personal because thats all they have left in a losing argument….is what it is, like I said, it says more about them.
You make some valid points, just hope you find some sense of reasoning in the points Ive made against L&L. If not its cool, we remained mature and didnt resort to personal attacks in the discussion.
Im just frustrated man. I know it takes time, Im not new to football. And theres valid excuses like you pointed out, but then theres just all out BS decision making and the way some of the players are playing that seems to point to bad coaching. All in all, in the meaningless two games left, I hope we test our backups to see what we have in them, and yes I hope we end up staying with the #1 overall….could work wonders trading that bad boy.
December 16th, 2014 at 10:59 pm
Coaches are not perfect. Nor do they always make the best decisions. I felt like Lovie and Co. had to do a lot in a small amount of time. I think they felt they had a good squad and could contend, that’s why theybsaid what they did. Couldn’t predict Tedford’s condition and had no time to repair the damage. I think we’ve got a stellar coaching staff, just missing a few pieces of personnel. Obviously, we need a new OC, but otherwise, coaches coach, players play. I’m happy with the gains the D made, even though there were a few disappointments. They can be replaced.
The most glaring needs are on offense. We need an oLine and we NEEEEEEED a QB.
Special teams lacks playmakers. Specifically, we need returners who can get back chunks of yards. Murray has been lights out and the strength of that unit. Koenen’s time is done. Some of those things can be addressed in FA. The rest through the draft.
Most disappointing is being so close to winning so many games in a division that was clearly up for grabs.
December 16th, 2014 at 11:29 pm
I can agree with you there John.
December 16th, 2014 at 11:48 pm
agree mad max somewhat! if the moron coach took a look at the oline guys before cutting them and did more in the offseason maybe mg or jm might have been better . yes that’s called coaching wtf!
December 17th, 2014 at 1:00 am
Exactly Mikeh, I meant to say somewhat, (agreed with his later points), but it boils down to the coach and gm….which is why I want at least one of them, if not both, fired…..at least for accountability’s sake!
If they stay, I see another losing season next year, maybe 3 wins, smdh
December 17th, 2014 at 2:07 pm
To all the “true fans” posting while inhaling large wiffs of unicorn farts…we are a 2-12 team realistically looking down the barrel of 2-14. We are not talking about an inexperienced coach who inherited a talentless roster nor was given no money to go free agency shopping. This is a coach with a track record on the NFL…some things good, some things bad, who supposedly did a year’s worth of evaluation to become a better HC. How any of you can sit there and say fans who can truly be confident with this staff and the defense rising to a level not even as good as last year’s team (you Schiano/Sheridan haters must love that) is totally baffling to me. Hold Lovie to the same standards you did Morrus and Schiano…higher since he’s more experienced and higher paid.
December 17th, 2014 at 6:06 pm
Although that’s a good point about accountability – I did not call for.Schiano’s head in year one. Or after year one. Nor did I have a problem with Morris. I was a strong supporter of Morris. Schiano I had no feelings either way. Until of course, the PLAYERS quit on both of those coaches. I think Lovie’s experience is MORE reason to have MORE faith, because he knows how to turn it around and I remain confident he will.
December 18th, 2014 at 3:05 am
Having seen the avalanche of mistakes, miscues, and any other M word describing the mayhem that we’ve endured this season as Bucs fans, I have never been so ready for Spring Training…lol!
However…we have seen so many defeats pulled out of the jaws of victory, one can only hope that the offseason brings with it the long lost map of Captain Lombardi’s Silver Statue…and the glory our Buccaneers can reap with its discovery. Personally speaking, it’s because we never had our throwback game in the creamsicles that threw our karma out of whack. I mean, seriously, we couldn’t paint our helmets? The Steelers can look like bumble bees, but we can’t paint our helmets for a throwback game…
The point is, this year just had a shipload of bad, whatever you want to call it, karma, luck, joo joo, whatever. The sooner this season ends, the better, I say, and let the offseason rebuild begin at once!
Oh, and I don’t care if we are 2 – 12, I don’t ever want to see that gutless wonder Glennon under center. Any QB that alligator arms the first down marker has no heart, and I don’t ever want to see lack of heart on our team. Even Trent Dilfer would lower his head sometimes to get that extra yard. And you know Doug Williams would leap over you to get it too.
Keep the faith…vent your frustrations, but keep it real. We old time Bucs fans have seen it all, been there, done that. It will get better!