Demanding The Bucs Lose At All Costs
December 22nd, 2014
It has come down to this. For the first time, Joe will root for the Buccaneers to lose Sunday when the whistle blows.
Lovie Smith can try to spin the benefits of victory against the Saints all he wants. He can’t fool Joe. He can’t fool the fans. And surely he can’t fool Team Glazer.
Losing Sunday is the right thing for the franchise – to secure the No. 1 overall draft pick in 2015.
Joe considers this a major announcement because cheering for a Bucs loss will go against Joe’s DNA, but it is critical.
The Bucs have a shot to get a guy who, if all works out, can lead the team out of the depths of a miserable offense, out of the basement of irrelevance, out of the dungeon of losing. A player who can lead this team to relevance, to sell tickets, to deliver hope, to ignite a fan base.
As much as Joe loves big-time, bone-crunching offensive linemen, he has never seen a left tackle in his life lead a team 80 yards for a go-ahead touchdown in crunch time.
After ignoring quarterbacks last year with the rare chance to draft one early, the Bucs are on the cusp of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (again) to draft a quarterback of their dreams, a position the Bucs need in the worst way.
And to secure this ticket to a bright future, the Bucs must do one thing in six days.
Lose.
No. 1 Is Much Better Than No. 2
Tampa Bay is assured now of drafting No. 2 overall, but scoring the No. 1 pick would be far more beneficial.
While Joe prefers the undefeated national champion Jameis Winston, Joe would be content if the Bucs’ braintrust believes Marcus Mariota is the one. Joe heard — he will write about it later — that the Bucs all but have their draft board set. Yes, this early. So to get their desired quarterback, the best thing they can do to secure that man is simple.
Lose.
But the power of the No. 1 pick goes beyond the college player. With the No. 1 pick, the Bucs will know exactly what offensive coordinator to hire. Winston and Mariota are very different players, and will need to be coached differently.
The Bucs need not land in the position of selecting their next coordinator without knowing their quarterback. They can take care of that easily.
Lose.
Remember Calvin Johnson
Common sense has to come into play. What is more important, winning a meaningless game that no one will remember in three weeks, or scoring the chance to draft a player that could lead the team to the playoffs for a decade or more?
Quick: What was that all-important, landmark franchise win in 2006 that cost the Bucs a chance to draft Calvin Johnson and, instead, forced them to settle for the immortal Gaines Adams?
Yeah, that win sure was helpful. The Bucs are still paying for it lo’ these many years.
Winning the Saints game to close the season would be like having that third beer at the bar despite having to drive home. That third beer may go down swell, but you’ll pay dearly for it for years when you get caught in a police roadblock later.
Team Glazer Must Lead
If Lovie Smith is too stubborn to see the light, if he cannot see the forest for the trees, then Team Glazer must step in. For if the Bucs needlessly blow this opportunity, it won’t be Lovie paying for it down the road; it will be Team Glazer. It is their team. They will own the franchise long after Lovie is gone.
If the top pick in the draft is urinated away with a worthless win, then it is Team Glazer that will feel the pain of fan apathy, angst and disgust.
Yes Lovie, Joe knows losing stinks. It sure seems like you are coming back next season, whether you have two wins or three. But you must consider the big picture. It’s your duty. Find a way. Sit down your top players.
This a rare chance in which one loss can set the franchise up for many, many, many wins in the future.
Look at the big picture here. Please. To save the team.
Simple as that.
Lose.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:08 am
You got me Joe…I set my alarm and everything! Ill give you this one though, there is little they get from winning this game. MAYBE, just maybe if the defense goes out and plays its ass off, but Id say getting the NO.1 pick all alone without a tie is worth it, because your also first in the 2nd round too…(instead of reverse order crap) which would give the Bucs two of the best 33 college football players!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:09 am
Joe I have been rooting for them to lose for weeks now glad your on board!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:09 am
Please let Drew Bree’s play the whole game!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:10 am
Welcome aboard. Suck for the Duck.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:12 am
Really I’m good now we are going to get mariota or Winston now! But agree we need the first pick it would help us with getting a oc quickly.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:13 am
This coaching staff needs no encouragement to lose. It is the worst that I have ever seen!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:21 am
Agree 100%. Y was expecting something different for the big announcement. Nice teaser last night, it did the trick…
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:21 am
Welcome aboard joes!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:24 am
Is there a scenario where bucs win and still get 1st pick? Raiders won yesterday.. thanks
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:30 am
Yeah….. We all know that wanting your team to lose sucks but this is the perfect opportunity to set your franchise up for the next, potentially, 10 years!!!!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:30 am
I totally agree with Joe…and another benefit of having the #1 pick is have more leverage in a trade…assuming they obtained a FA quarterback and wanted to trade that 1 for a RG3 type deal 🙂
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:31 am
Welcome to the rest of the fan base that actually looks big picture!
As much as we SUCK….It’s in the Bucs DNA to be a day late and a dollar short and screw this up some way, some how.
What’s that slogan….suck for the Duck?!
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:35 am
@Joe – I agree 100% that the team needs to lose in order to help the long term success of the franchise. I was wondering though, suppose the team screws it up and wins this game. Are there any scenarios where we can hope for other teams to win and we can still maintain our #1 pick, or would a win relegate us to #2 status?
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:41 am
Think “immortal” is probably the wrong choice of words….
I agree though, I will be gutted if we don’t lose and claim #1….not even because either QB is a cast-iron solution (history shows us that there are no guarantees that picking the most-heralded QB in a given year brings you a true “franchise” QB), but because if the value in future draft picks trading down gives as an option.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:46 am
So….do we definitely have the #1 draft pick if we lose?
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:49 am
What scares me is lovie will screw the pick up i see nothing but black clouds with the imposter
.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:49 am
I’m not that sold on either QB either, at face value, but I do like the idea of being able to get an OC in here that is well suited for that QB and giving him the best chance to flourish. I also like that we’ll be at the top of every round so even our 2nd round pick would not be far off from a low 1st rounder. That would be a great place to find one of our O-linemen. I’d be happy with a good MLB or FS at that #33 spot as well.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:50 am
@Scotty – I know that a loss guarantees us the spot. I was asking earlier about scenarios where we could get it if we were to win. I haven’t been able to find that anywhere else either.
December 22nd, 2014 at 6:52 am
@Joe
Glad to finally have you aboard
Question..
Since Defense has fueled the Lovie Smith era…Is it ‘his Defense or “Ron Rivera’s & Rod Martinelli’s Defense”?
Case in Point:
• On January 15, 2004, Lovie Smith was named the Chicago Bears Head Coach
• On January 23, 2004, Ron Rivera was named the Chicago Bears Defensive Coordinator.
2005 Chicago Bears 11-5 .688 (Division Championships)
• Defensive Coordinator: Ron Rivera ←
• Allowed 202 points (12.6/g), 1st.
In 2005, the Chicago Bears defense was rated second-best in the NFL.
The 2005 Bears qualified for the NFC playoffs losing in the 2nd Round to the Carolina Panthers 29-21. The 2005 performance of the Chicago Bears earned Ron Rivera consideration for Head Coach assignments from several NFL teams.
2006 Chicago Bears 13-3 .813 (Conference Championship)
• Defensive Coordinator: Ron Rivera ←
• Allowed 255 points (15.9/g), 3rd.
The 2006 Bears’ defensive efforts failed to match the success of their 2005 season. Nevertheless, the team was still a notable presence in league, finishing with the league’s third ranked and conference’s top-ranked points allowed category. Once again the defense’s success earned Rivera recognition among franchises looking for new head coaches.
*The Arizona Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers interviewed him in January 2007.
Ron Rivera was a candidate for the vacant Dallas Cowboys head coaching position, a job that ultimately went to San Diego Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips. Rivera was named as a potential candidate to replace the fired Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego, but the job was filled by Norv Turner. On February 19, 2007, it was announced that Ron Rivera’s contract with the Bears would not be renewed.
Drop off In Defensive Production After the Departure of Ron Rivera
2007 Chicago Bears 7-9-0
• Defensive Coordinator: Bob Babich
• Allowed 348 points (21.8/g), 16th.
2008 Chicago Bears 9-7-0
• Defensive Coordinator: Bob Babich
• Allowed 350 points (21.9/g), 16th.
2009 Chicago Bears 7-9-0
• Defensive Coordinator: Bob Babich
• Allowed 375 points (23.4/g), 21st.
In January 2009, Rod Marinelli joined the Chicago Bears.
• Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Line
*He held that title his last four seasons in Tampa Bay. The Buccaneers’ line racked up 328.5 sacks under Marinelli, the most in the league during that span.
In February 2010 Rod Marinelli was promoted from defensive line to
• Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator
*From 2010 to 2012, Marinelli’s defenses ranked ninth, seventeenth, and fifth, respectively. Also in 2012, the Bears led the NFL in interceptions with 24, along with in takeaways with 44, sixth in third-down efficiency (35.5 percent) and eighth in sacks with 41,while ranking third with the fewest points allowed (477)
2010 Chicago Bears 11-5 .688 (Division Championships)
• Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator: Rod Marinelli
• Allowed 286 points (17.9/g), 4th. ←
2011 Chicago Bears 7-9-0
• Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator: Rod Marinelli
• Allowed 341 points (21.3/g), 14th.
2012 Chicago Bears 10-6 .625 (Division Championships)
• Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator: Rod Marinelli
• Allowed 277 points (17.3/g), 3rd. ←
The defense has 4 top 10 finishes in total yardage under Smith, but the other five seasons have seen the Bears finish from 13th to 21st in total defense. Smith’s defense is predicated on forcing turnover and limiting points more than worrying about how many yards the team has given up. They have four top ten finishes in points allowed during Smith’s tenure. The other five seasons have had the Bears wind up between 13th and 21st in points allowed.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:01 am
Is this the major announcement? Joe wants the team to lose? How will this make fans happy? You realize that it doesn’t really matter what Joe wants… it doesn’t make any impact on what happens on the field, right? I don’t see the big deal in Joe wanting the team to lose… a poll on another site BEFORE the game stated that 75% of the fans wanted the team to lose.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:16 am
Joint effort?
Oddly enough these are just some of the reasons listed, on why he should be fired-by Bears fans when he was their head coach
Inefficient offense
The Bears offense under Smith has been stagnant and unimaginative. They have only finished in the top 20 in total offense in his nine seasons once. That was 15th in 2006, their lone Super Bowl appearance in the Smith era. They have four top five appearances in scoring under Smith, but those number have always been boosted by the emphasis on the defense producing turnovers and points. Many have criticized the turnover of the offensive coordinators and Smith’s conservative approach offensively.
Rotating coordinators
The Bears have had four offensive and three defensive coordinators during the Smith era. The defense, which is overseen by Smith has been one of the best in the NFL since his arrival in 2004.
His Offensive coordinators have been:
• Terry Shea (2004),
• Ron Turner (2005-09),
• Mike Martz (2010-11)
• Mike Tice (2012- ).
Only the 2006 season can be deemed a success offensively for the Bears during the Smith Era. They finished 15th in yards that season and second in points scored. That was the only time since 2004 the Bears have finished above 23rd in total offense. The changing systems offensively have hurt any continuity the Bears have had. In six of Smith’s nine seasons (including 2012), the Bears have finished in the bottom quarter of the NFL in total offense.
Inability to develop talent
Although Jerry Angelo and Phil Emery have overseen the nine draft since Smith was hired in 2004, his inability to cultivate that talent has been hurt the Bears in recent years.
Nine Players that were drafted by the Bears have been to the Pro Bowl under Smith. Five defensive players earned trips, two on special teams and two on offensive. Matt Forte is the only skilled position player on offense selected to the pro-bowl in Smith’s tenure. That should change this year after the season Brandon Marshall has had. Three of the players were drafted before Smith was hired.
Shea McClellin and Gabe Carimi are the only Bears first rounds picks since 2004 that are still on the roster. Neither is a starter at the position that were drafted at. Smith has done a solid job with the players drafted on the defensive side of the ball, but the offensive players that they have drafted have been a disaster with the exception of Forte. Smith has to be liable for some of the blame to develop the players. Scouts and management find talent and coaches are supposed to develop the players provided to them.
Disastrous offensive line
The Bears have been in the top six for most sacks allowed in each of the last three seasons. The Bears have had to repeatedly draft offensive lineman in an attempt to get to produce results. After drafting the injury prone Chris Williams at guard in 2008, the Bears had to let him go earlier this season due to more injuries and ineffectiveness. That was after moving him inside to guard.
They seemingly bring in free agents that have not worked out in attempt to patch up the O-Line. It hasn’t worked and now the Bears will go into another off-season needing to find help on the offensive line through the draft and in free agency.
Does Any of this Sound Familiar?
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:16 am
AHHHH Joe YOU fooled me!!! Just like the bucs have been fooling me for years and years. But like the good little lemming i am i will continue to read your blog just like i will continue to go to Buc games. Just do not do it again or next time i will drop this blog from my favorites list quicker than my cheating girlfriend. Or maybe not.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:18 am
Agreed with the losing for the #1 pick. But it will be wasted if Lovie remains. He is so stubborn and incompetent. We assume it will be a QB, but with the fool in place expect the unexpected. Also, I’m not so sure he will change any of his coaches or hire a new OC. Arroyo may stay as horrible as that may sound. Nothing would surprise me with our beloved leader anymore. In Lovie we trust.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:24 am
I knew this was your “major announcement”.
Nailed it…. (Hank from Californication voice)
Pickgrin Says:
December 21st, 2014 at 11:06 pm
Lemme Guess. You will “officially” be hoping the Bucs lose to secure a potential franchise QB prospect – just like most intelligent fans have been doing for the last 2 weeks.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:37 am
RIP to the drafted QB if he has to play behind that line. Does it really matter who the QB is with that line? Amazingly if you watch any QB, doesn’t even matter if it’s Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, when they are consistently under pressure, they struggle mightly. Green Bay is not a great defense and they had 7 sacks and could easily have had 5 more.
Yes, we need a QB. But I think this shows people again selling short how bad this team is. With that offensive line again next year its another top 5 pick without question. We can’t start the rookie behind it or he’ll die….which means we have to sacrifice McCown’s body instead and that’s no more than 4 wins again.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:48 am
Joe,
Thanks for printing what many have been feeling for weeks, if not months. It’s very interesting how Lovie has. generally, gotten a pass from most local and even national media. This season as been a total disaster. I didn’t think it could get much more embarassing than MRSA and Freeman, but it has. In honor of the holidays here are twelve examples (in no real order). First, the search for Lovie’s GM…Licht seems like a good fellow, probably pretty bright, but the way this went down it made it seem like he was going to be Lovie’s puppet. Next, Free Agency/Revis and the spin that one great player is worth 3 marginal ones. Seriously, how’s that working out? Third, the rebrand itself and handling of the reveal of the uniform ‘upgrade’ that no one saw coming and was universally blasted as being XFL ish. Fourth, the coach/GM’s dismantling the OL w/o addressing the G position during the draft or FA. Not to mention relying on part-time starters to play full-time roles. How could a team go into the season with no guards? The Mankins trade was a desparate move. Fifth, the coaching staff. It’s Rah and Schiano bad. Sixth, somehow believing and trying to convince the fans (and the team) that McCown is an NFL starter. Seventh, benching Glennon (I’m no MGM member, but WTF, Lovie). Eighth, Gilkey- why is this guy on an NFL roster, much less this one? Ninth, we’re so bad on the DL that we continue to give Bowers a chance and think Johnson flashed some last week. Tenth, Marcus Arroyo. Eleventh, beleiving the D is just around the corner. Twelveth, not trading Barron sooner.
This is all to say that this team sucks and sucks hard. Lovie has done the near impossible in coaching gone from really bad at 4-12 and made us absolutely a joke at 2-14. How is it that every single decision (save realizing how bad Barron is) this guy made has gone wrong? You can’t pin any of this on Tedford’s heart, or lack thereof. This all stinks of Lovie.
Do you trust this man to draft and develop a franchise QB? He’s an O-coordinator’s kiss of death. What noted name is going to work with him here? He has burned every single O-coordinator he has ever had. So what does that leave us with in terms of hiring an O-innovator and/or developing a QB? A HC that still believes McCown give us the best chance to win (have you seen this guy play Lovie?) or at best thinks Glennon has a future?
It’s time to cut our losses here folks. Yes, tank on Sunday. Fire Lovie on Monday.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:52 am
Lovie Smith and the offense just don’t get along. He had the same issue in Chicago. Did Lovie limit what Tedford wanted to do? I dont’t know but what I know is Lovie never had a successful ofense.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:52 am
BTW – Bucs are guaranteed the #1 pick if they lose. If Bucs win and Titans lose – we are guaranteed the #2 overall pick. If both teams win we get the #1 pick. So Bucs are getting either #1 or #2 pick regardless of what happens.
Part of me is now hoping for scenario 2 where Bucs win and Titans lose. Why – because we must have 1 of these 2 QBs. MUST HAVE!!!! I don’t want the temptation of other teams offering extra picks to trade up for their choice of QBs. I also believe that Winston is the better QB prospect and would prefer that the Bucs be “forced” to choose him with Mariota likely off the board at #1.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:54 am
By the way, can we buy 2 get away tickets for coach Warhop and Cousins? How much longer?
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:54 am
I wouldn’t trust this current regime with the Number 1 pick.
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:58 am
Question for people who watch college football more than myself….are either mariota or winston THAT good? Yes they are the best this year, but in the wider scheme of things, how do they match up to past #1 qbs? Clearly they aren’t Andrew luck, but if Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, rg3, and Matthew Stafford were also in this years draft (their post-college, pre-draft versions, ignoring their subsequent nfl careers) where would mariota and winston rank as prospects?
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:59 am
@Pickgrin – What if the Titans were to fall in love with one of the QBs and they don’t want to risk missing out on their guy and they would be willing to trade up from #2 to #1? Not an impossible scenario. Especially with the boom or bust postential of Winston. If the Titans think that Mariotta is the only guy worth having then I’d be willing to bet they’d make a phone call.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:01 am
Just loose baby!!
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:04 am
Touché
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:05 am
Lovies Draft Picks (Da Bears)
(2004)
• • 1 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
• • 2 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington
• • 3 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State
• • 4 110 Nathan Vasher DB Texas
• • 4 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland
• • 5 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh
• • 5 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State
• • 7 215 Alfonso Marshall DB Miami
•
(2005)
• • 1 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas
• • 2 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma
• • 4 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue
• • 5 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson
• • 6 181 Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe
• • 7 220 Rodrigues Wilson LB South Carolina
(2006)
• • 2 42 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian
• • 2 57 Devin Hester DB Miami
• • 3 73 Dusty Dvoracek DL Oklahoma
• • 4 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State
• • 5 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama
• • 6 195 J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma
• • 6 200 Tyler Reed OG Penn State
(2007)
• • 1 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami
• • 2 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan
• • 3 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois
• • 3 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford
• • 4 130 Josh Beekman OG Boston College
• • 5 167 Kevin Payne DB Louisiana-Monroe
• • 5 168 Corey Graham DB New Hampshire
• • 7 221 Trumaine McBride DB Mississippi
• • 7 241 Aaron Brant OT Iowa State
(2008)
• • 1 14 Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt
• • 2 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane
• • 3 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt
• • 3 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas
• • 4 120 Craig Steltz DB Louisiana State
• • 5 142 Zack Bowman DB Nebraska
• • 5 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State
• • 7 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State
• • 7 222 Chester Adams OG Georgia
• • 7 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State
• • 7 247 Kirk Barton OT Ohio State
• • 7 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas
(2009)
• • 3 68 Jarron Gilbert DT San Jose State
• • 3 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma
• • 4 105 Henry Melton DE Texas
• • 4 119 D.J. Moore DB Vanderbilt
• • 5 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian
• • 5 154 Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State
• • 6 190 Al Afalava DB Oregon State
• • 7 246 Lance Louis OG San Diego State
• • 7 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburgh
(2010)
• • 3 75 Major Wright DB Florida
• • 4 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern
• • 5 141 Joshua Moore DB Kansas State
• • 6 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan
• • 7 218 J’Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M
(2011)
• • 1 29 Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
• • 2 53 Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
• • 3 93 Christopher Conte DB California
• • 5 160 Nathan Enderle QB Idaho
• • 6 195 J.T. Thomas LB West Virginia
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:07 am
@Joe – Had a suggestion that I thought I’d air out to see if anyone else would like the feature and, if so, then you can take it for what it’s worth:
I’d like to see a drop down menu where you can access previous posts (no need to go back further than a day). Maybe you could even allow the comment count to be displayed for each story. That way those of us who maintain dialogues in the comments sections can navigate between various conversations more seamlessly. I’d imagine it would be a fairly low tech addition and it would make it a smoother ride, in my opinion.
Either way, thanks for what you do fellas.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:10 am
I have a sick feeling that Lovie is going to add to his putrid legacy here by winning this last game and botching the #1 anyways. Then he will put a spin only that by winning it brings momentum going into next season starting fresh with McCown at QB. He is that arrogant.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:15 am
The strategy is simple. Keep Lovie for one more game. He’ll try to win, but it will be an almost guaranteed loss. Then, fire him after the game.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:15 am
Note: Lovie & Jerry Angelo traded stud TE Greg Olsen to the Carolina Panthers. In return, the Bears will receive a third-round pick in the 2012 draft.
Olsen had been rumored in the past to be on the trading block, in part because of the perception the tight end didn’t fit into the pass-happy system employed by Bears offensive coordinator Mike Martz.
Olsen Reply:
“I did everything that I was asked,” Olsen said. “Playing fullback and pass protection and blocking. That was kind of the rap going in. I proved all that wrong and showed that I could play every down and did everything I was asked to do. At the end of the day, it just wasn’t really a fit. And that’s fine. Everyone has their ways of doing things and I have no hard feelings towards it at all and I’m just happy and satisfied that I have the opportunity to go play somewhere where I feel like I have a better opportunity.”
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:16 am
All well and fine but no matter whom or how many players we bring in, we’ll still have an inept coaching staff.
We now are faced with replacing Lovie’s replacement players.
Pinning hopes on a rookie franchise QOF is being a bit naïve. Smith must go next Monday.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:17 am
I agree, it goes against every standard I’ve set related to being a pure Buc fan, BUt in this rare instance in this perfect and rare space in time, the Bucs need to lose. My only concern is it benefits the Saints to block this opportunity because they are division rivals. If they sit Breez and their top players this could be a virtual race to the starting line. Ironically we may not lose if we try too……….Don’t Go Bucs…..
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:25 am
Joe welcome on board. As I’ve said many times, I don’t like either of these qbs but could live with mariota. Howver if we don’t trade down, Lovie must go. His talent evaluation is terrible. In addition, he has shown no ability to hire and retain offensive talent. Winston or mariota Lovie must go
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:26 am
I’d rather just cheer for TEN to win. Then we can curbstomp the Saints and still get the first pick.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:27 am
@Joe: Yawn.
Your blind victory crusade seemed noble. But it’s no special announcement that you are finally accepting the obvious and joining the long-term strategy club. We welcome you, but your special announcement is not exactly fanfare and ticker-tape parade worthy.
Regarding this week’s game: I can see the press conference now:
Glazer Elf: “We full support Coach Smith. We know they will put their best effort forward to finish the season on a strong note and bring us our first home victory of the year. Thank you, please drive safely.”
Microphone clicks off. . .
Glazer Elf: “Lovie, you win this game, we’ll demote you the commissary burger flipper next to the last head coach who screwed up our draft slot.”
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:29 am
Like many i agree lovie wont get fired but i seriously wouldn’t mind if they showed him the door monday!!
I’m kinda getting used to starting over Year After Year!
And i also have to agree that no QB we draft or play is safe with this Oline, But i do feel drafting a qb would give us fans something to look foward to in some way shape or form
maybe thats just me
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:31 am
@meh – They’re going up against the Colts after they just got shellacked by Dallas. I would imagine that they’ll want to tune up prior to going in to the playoffs so I doubt they’ll just roll over for the Titans. Colts are probably taking that one. I’d prefer that scenario as well though. Just doubt that it’ll happen.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:34 am
0 – 8 is historically bad. Not since 1976 have the Bucs lost all their home games. the number one draft pick is still worth it.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:39 am
Can’t wait to here from all of you when we trade down.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:40 am
“Sit down your top players.”
So does the starting lineup change at all?
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:45 am
I’m sick of you crying wolf. People commented that they were actually worried for your well being and your big revelation was you’re doing what most of us have been doing sinc Halloween.
Shame on you Joe….and at Christmas.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:46 am
I find it interesting that Joe has been pushing for Winston all this time…..now wants to lose to have a choice of QBs…….can someone tell Joe that there is no way Tenn is taking Winston….and there is no way anyone else is trading up to get hiim.
The Bucs will absolutely have a Winston on the board when they pick……the problem is that the Bucs likely won’t take him either.
Meh & I are the only fools that are rooting for the Bucs & Tenn…..
All you Winston lovers can root for the Bucs Sunday without worry….
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:50 am
You can’t just sit down all your top players, without the league potentially hammering us…but as this year has proven…there are many ways to lose while playing all your starters.
And maybe the NO players will be playing for Payton’s job.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:54 am
Former Bears General Manager Jerry Angelo admitted that trading Greg Olsen to the Panthers in 2011 was a mistake, during a conversation with the Kap and Haugh Show on 87.7 FM The Game.
Olsen wasn’t a fit for what then-coach Mike Martz wanted to do, but has developed into one of the most reliable pass-catchers in the league.
“It was a mistake to trade him,” Angelo said, via CSNChicago.co, “I understand he wasn’t the ideal fit in the scheme, but we let our best receiver go. Obviously, it was [Jay] Cutler’s favorite receiver at the time, and we let him out the door.
“That’s on me. I understand what the coaches were saying, but you don’t let your best player — one of your better players — out the door. Everything he’s doing hasn’t surprised me. He’s an excellent player, particularly in the passing game. He’s Newton’s favorite target.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:57 am
I strongly believe in rooting for wins every week because for Bucs fans they come so few and far between lately. Tomorrow isn’t guaranteed for any of us, but I do believe that winning this Sunday will feel more like a loss in the long run.
Peyton Manning v. Ryan Leaf
Andrew Luck v. Bob Griffin
Be the bride, not the bridesmaid.
I’m on board losing this week, but I was NOT on board with “tanking” the season before week 8 like some…
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:58 am
Rooting to lose? Shame on any so called Buc fan doing this. #JustWinBaby
At this point it’s 50/50 Smith keeps his job. Neither Smith or a new HC going to roll the dice on a QB 1st overall.
Licht must fire Smith, he has the Glazers blessing.
December 22nd, 2014 at 8:59 am
Joe, since some of use have been rooting for the Bucs to secure the #1 pick for weeks one, doesn’t this make Joe a bandwagon fan?
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:05 am
Im not sure that either quarterback prospect is going to be a franchise guy. Then again neither could possibly be as atrocious as McCown.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:06 am
Major announcement,TMZ move over. lmfao,,,Now back to reality, have you ever seen a QB take a team down the field on a last minute drive WITHOUT adequate O Line blocking.We just witnessed an entire season of a piss poor O Line. I pray that the team doesn’t cave to the pressure of the “glam” pick. Doing the right thang is seldom the popular thang. Scherff IS the best option or another of the top o linemen.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:09 am
Can we all let cooler heads prevail here?! Regardless of where the Bucs draft before we say the Bucs should draft Mariota or Winston can we wait until after the regular season has finished? Can we wait until they have held their individual workouts? Can we wait until the Scouting Combine? There will probably be some other player in the discussion that the Bucs should be looking at to draft besides these two QBs.
Not that I don’t think the Bucs need a QB, they did use all of their picks last year on the offense last season and look what that got them.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:09 am
Lose baby lose!!!!!
If they dont want to fire Lovie, at least work him into DC duties, maybe share them with Leslie…..but for all sensible and meaningful purposes, please dont let him remain at HC and draft our players any further. Both of those jobs need to be out of his hands! I DO NOT TRUST LOVIE!!!!
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:22 am
First thing we need to do is banish all this bullsh*t about trading down to get more picks. No! No! No! “Look at all the teams that selected a QB # 1 and crapped out. Look at all the teams that found a great QB in the later rounds”. I don’t care!! We need Offensive linemen, Defensive linemen Yada Yada Yada. No matter who we pick we will still need other players and guess what!! we wont find them with two picks in round two of next years draft. Pick Mariota, put up the police barricades and move on. There nothing else to see here
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:30 am
This blog post will be reprinted as the cover story in the upcoming edition of “Duh!” magazine….
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:33 am
It seems counterintuitive, but losing next Sunday helps this team much more in the long run than winning. There’s no difference between 3-13 and 2-14…..you still suck either way! But having the #1 pick in the draft means that you can have ANY player you want! Whether it’s a QB or a LT or whatever….no one can take that one player away! Even in the other rounds, it helps….there are always a few guys that slip that should have been taken in the earlier round…now because we are #1, we get a first round talent in round 2 and so on! It is also easier to attract coaching talent in this position because we are assured of getting that one guy a coach wants to build around! I hate to lose for no reason…..but the reason is right in our grasp now, and the Bucs would be silly to abandon it!
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:45 am
Hey Shane if they trade down I won’t waste a single Sunday afternoon next season watching Josh McCown stink up the joint. I don’t think I’m alone either. I will watch McCown stink up the joint if we have a franchise QB on the sidelines being groomed to take over eventually. You forget that pro football is a business. If you owned the Bucs and wanted to have more than 30k people at your games would you trade down to the 12th spot to take an offensive guard? The Glazers will not allow Lovie to pass on a QB with either the 1st or 2nd pick.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:48 am
I am sorry, but I will be in the stadium on Sunday and I will be rooting for my team to win!! 1st or 2nd pick is irrelevant with this franchise…
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:52 am
A loss would not only insure a No. 1 pick.But should open up new coaching options.
Lovie does not give us the best chance to win. This season has been a debacle
from start to finish due his poor decision making or lack thereof in the case of
OC.
Keeping Lovie could cost the Glazers far more millions than paying his moving
expenses.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:54 am
I’d love the irony seeing the reactions of all the people who’ve been demanding we tank if the Saints start little McCown and mostly backups and, in effect, tank so we win and go to #2. That’d be hilarious.
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:55 am
Just our luck, McCown will get hurt and our current “qb of the future” will pull out a win – thus losing the chance of the top pick!
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:58 am
It would be great to land the #1 pick AND win the game, but as for what to do with it… I am on record for trading down. Neither of the ‘top’ QBs are worth a top pick. If the Bucs got another R. Leaf or RGIII, THAT would set the franchise back another decade.
BTW, Joe, if the Bucs had a stud LT this season, they likely would have won, at least, half their games. Adding a ‘stud’ to the other side and a pass rusher would have guaranteed the division title.
Trading down can get them those guys. Trade UP next year if there’s an ‘elite’ QB on the board.
December 22nd, 2014 at 10:04 am
I woke up late, so I missed the excitement. I didn’t know until now that the Bucs were trying to win a game. The offense sure looked like it has lost 13 games. Do you expect them, the same players, to rise out of the ashes and win on offense?
I admit that McCown did better than I expected, only one interception and one fumble that we recovered, but he again missed most of his passes. Our OL has let him, of course he helps by holding on to the ball so long, be sacked so much this year that he should be called McBagged.
Oh for the days of yesteryear when the Bucs of old were on the field and not in the booth.
December 22nd, 2014 at 10:07 am
Joe I remember seeing Derrick Brooks bring back a pick 6 in that road win on Christmas Eve. It was good to tell the obnoxious Brown fans sitting in the Greenery with me that day that the Browns were a worse 4-11 team than my Bucs! Did not really think about how that affected the draft order but obviously the Lions and the Browns bth passed the Bucs in the draft order as the Browns got Joe Thomas the next draft right before the Gaines pick at #4…. Of course it could have been worse, the Bucs could have landed Russell if he slid past the Raiders….. I always thought the most wasteful win in Buc histroy happened in 1988 when the 4-11 Bucs routed the 4-11 Lions to 21-10 to finish the year 5-11 and draft 6th where they got Broderick Thomas at #6…. The Lions finished with the 3rd pick and of course drafted Barry Sanders. If the Bucs lost they would have drafted 3rd….. Also picked ahead of the Bucs pick at #6: the 3-13 Dallas Cowboys with Aikman, the Pack with Mandarich, the Chiefs with Derrick Thomas and the Falcons with Deion Sanders. With the exception of Mandarich all were home runs. I am listing these players as the Bucs went 5-11 and FOUR of the wins were over 4-12 Green Bay and Detroit who picked 2nd and 3rd and 3 of these wins were by FGs….. Bucs were very, very close to picking 1st if they simply split with the Pack and Lions and had some edge in the tie breaker with Landry’s 3-13 Cowboys….. If the Bucs did get Aikman or Sanders it is possible that they actually would start to win before Hugh Culverhouse went to the happy hunting ground…..
December 22nd, 2014 at 10:08 am
DUH! I’ve been saying this for the last 3 games. JOE next time save all the drama!
December 22nd, 2014 at 10:10 am
What we need is for one of the glazers since its so many of them to act as a jerry jones in the organization. I have a filling its people in the front office that are not passionate or give a dam about the team..the cowboys are sucsessful because they have people in the front office that really care. It starts up front i cant take another losing season i hate thinking about the 2007 2008.. when we couldn’t win one out of 4 games i knew then that we was about to be a garbage team for years to come. I wonder how the players would play if jerry jones owned the team
December 22nd, 2014 at 10:44 am
Joe, your “big announcement” is about as anti-climatic as the Bucs 2014 season.
Mehs all around for you.
Lets see your 2014 rundown:
1) Cried for Johnny Manziel (who is a bust)
2) Became the worst, most lackluster “general” of the Mike Glennon Mob… all but giving up several games into his tenure.
Joe never gave up on Glennon. He should have started in Week 4 and played out the season. Anything else was ridiculous. Joe never let off the gas on that.–Joe
I am sure there are more, but this year was very forgettable… and that’s what most people will do, forget 2014.
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:08 am
Joe, Since the Saints are in our division and have nothing to play for why wouldn’t they try and tank the came to prevent us from having #1 pick.
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:17 am
Anyone think McCown will start or even be here next year?
He wouldn’t have made those critical post game comments yesterday if he didn’t read the tea leaves.
The Glazers will insist we draft a QB if they are foolish enough to keep Lovie and staff.
A quality OC will be difficult to hire with McCown here. Precisely why Tedford tanked IMO.
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:25 am
Allowing McCown to play over Glennon, moving Dotson to a position he’s not used to playing, having Gilkey in the game at all, never bringing in a consultant to help Arroyo, giving young players reps, ect…all of these things point to the fact that Lovie Smith *is* tanking the season. Forget what he says in the post-game presser or Monday press conference. All signs point to tanking. He’s doing all the necessary things that, for example, bad NBA teams do to improve their draft lottery chances.
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:35 am
Real fans are not ok with losing. This is why the Tampa bay fan base is the worst in the NFL. how in the world you can root for your team to lose game against division rivals is just beyond me. Pathetic.
You deserve to draft a quarterback and have him flame out hard.
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:35 am
I wonder if the saints will try and screw up our draft by losing?..They are our division rival.. If losing meaningless games for the draft is good enough for Jimmy Johnson, than its good enough for me.. He won the SB because of it and brags about it every now and then. Tank worse than the saints will.. OH YA..
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:40 am
Mort the real fan..lol
December 22nd, 2014 at 11:41 am
Then just forfeit the game and ensure the lose… Spare the players any injuries that could occur…. I know people will say play the backup and see what we have but even they won’t be playing all out knowing that the coaches are wanting to lose….
With Lovie as HC, the game is meaningless anywaysbut it surely is going in it with a desire to lose!
December 22nd, 2014 at 12:00 pm
I never root for the Buce to lose. They manage to do that on their own, and often.
December 22nd, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Sorry but 2-14 means that we finish with our worst record since 1986. Who the hell wants that embarrassment?
December 22nd, 2014 at 12:45 pm
13frain I am with you all the way. Exactly my line of thinking.
December 22nd, 2014 at 12:57 pm
FIRE LOVIE!! If for no other reason than his refusal to let Glennon play. I am NOT a Glennon fan, but he deserved time to either develop or fail. Heck, if you want to trade him, give him a chance to show we he has so other teams may trade for him. On the bench he is unknown. There is absolutely no reason to play McCown once the season was lost. No excuses. Lovie must go.
Suck for the Duck!! Go Bucs!
December 22nd, 2014 at 1:29 pm
Really, irrespective of the draft pick, they should sit all their starters anyway. Why risk injury to Lavonte David, for example?
December 22nd, 2014 at 1:36 pm
So Lovies not having a sex change? Hmmm could’ve fooled me.
December 22nd, 2014 at 2:09 pm
I will feel awkward doing the whodat chat in Buc garb, but I will
December 22nd, 2014 at 3:17 pm
I haven’t seen this much anticlimactic hype since Geraldo opened “Capone’s Vault” and found nothing but a beer bottle and a shoe. It’s fun nonetheless…and a drum I’ve been beating for some time. I told a cocktail waitress who was wearing a Packer shirt yesterday that I was rooting for them even though the Bucs are the team I follow. She was a bit befuddled…
December 22nd, 2014 at 7:51 pm
Soggy is right about Jimmy Johnson: he tanked in his first season, 1989, to go 1-15 but they went and took Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft and thus gave away the #1 overall; this is after drafting Aikman first in the 1989 draft after the ‘boys went 3-13 in Landry’s swan song last season so comparing JJ’s first season in Dallas to Lovie’s with our 2-13 Bucs is not quite the same…. Still that 1989 draft bothered me; the Bucs won FOUR of their 5 wins to 4-12 Detroit and Green Bay who picked 2nd and 3rd. The Bucs got Broderick Thomas, a bust. FOUR of the five guys selected ahead of Thomas were Hall of Famers: Aikman, Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas, and Deion Sanders. Too bad ****ing Ray Perkins did not believe in ****ing tanking games but then Culverhouse probably would have still took B Thomas or traded the pick down to save money or made the signee hold out and take the year off anyhow; he was that kind of owner…..
December 22nd, 2014 at 9:23 pm
Equal or worse record than the Titans guarantees the first pick. Hoping we are the only 2-14 team so we don’t have to do flip flopping in the next 2 rounds due to equal records. That first pick in the second round is crucial too on the second day for trading or picking.
December 23rd, 2014 at 8:23 am
Have we not learn from our mistakes! Every year we have buc fans who say the same thing fire the coach, get a quarterback when if you look at teams that are successful year in and year out there is continuity at the head coaching position but most importantly there is continuity on the offensive and defensive lines. We as Bucs fans have to wake up and stop being so trendy every single season. We all want the same thing, to win! If you want that as badly as I do then give Smith 3 years, fix the O line, and show some loyalty. Only people who sit on the sidelines and have never played a sport would tell a coach to forfeit or lose the game. You do the best with what you have that’s what you should look for in a coach, if they won’t give their best under any circumstance then why the hell do you have them coaching. We have seen what flopping looks like from our past two h.c. Having pick 1 or pick 2 doesn’t make that big of a difference if you use your pics correctly and get the support you really need which begins on the offensive line. Bucfans, look at the statistics,not from years past but from this season when you cannot run when you cannot pass because you have defensive lineman in your back field in less than 3 seconds you know what the problem is. Neither Heisman winner can cure what 3 quality offensive lineman can (which if we had this year would have put us in playoff contention). We are better defensively now than prior to Lovie, for less money. We have talent in skill O-positions, and if you have watched and broken down the games as I have you will note the biggest problem we have that gives McCown or any other qb anxiety is 91%of your dropback under duress in less than three seconds. No one on earth can be great at qb with that statistic…. nor running backs as well! . And lastly if you really want to help the bucs then stop all the bashing and make people want to be a part of this community, Tampa is a wonderful citywithgreat people and great opportunities.Tell that story, state the facts, provide credible critiques, stay loyal and stop having other teams fans buy more tickets then buc fans and you’ll start seeing us in the playoffs a lot more. Peace I’m out!
December 23rd, 2014 at 9:23 am
Bucfan4life Says ,, Well said Sir and spot on !
December 23rd, 2014 at 9:54 am
Even if losing next week would give the Bucs the first pick, I couldn’t do it, that’s how I’m wired. “Go Bucs”
December 23rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm
Nah man, you never want them to lose. I don’t buy that crap. Sport is sport and you always do your best. Simple as that.
December 23rd, 2014 at 3:09 pm
#1 pick is a huge bargaining chip. But all the pressure!!!!! The #2 pick just settle’s for the other guy.Both Tenn and Buc’s coaches and front office’s want to win this game. To get the #2 pick!!!!If #1 pick is a dud. Everyone gets axed after a season or two. If #2 pick duds….well who cares. Every team would have taken the other guy. If they were as QB needy as Tenn and the Bucs
December 23rd, 2014 at 7:16 pm
Bucfan4life… ditto.
Cannot cheer for a loss. Cannot be happy about a loss. If the Bucs end up with the #1 pick, it’ll be on them, because I’ll be cheering for more offensive points and defensive shutdowns than the other team. I would also like to believe that Lovie’s team is on the rise. Barring some major surprise, by the Glazers, Lovie will be leading the Bucs next year. I’d like to believe the results will be better, if for no other reason than based on the play of some of the ‘new’ guys.
December 23rd, 2014 at 11:04 pm
Na, im not a real fan….even though I realize how valuable that #1 overall pick can be in trading back to help improve us….well, from this “not a true fan” to those of you thumbing your nose at those like me, thats what keeps this crapfest going and bickering amongst each other. “Im better than you” , “No, IM BETTER THAN YOU”…..LOL
I laugh at you guys calling us not true fans….if that makes you feel better, then go for it, have it at my expense all you want. I understand if you lack the ability to see the big picture in a meaningless game in a season thats been over.
December 24th, 2014 at 4:49 am
(First I’m. Bucfan4life 12-23-2014 posted only- I see earlier someone else posted with the same name and I apologize for any confusion, anyway)
Madmax if you were referring to me, for the record, nowhere did I say nor believe now that I am better than you, that’s just not the way I roll! So let’s not make it personal, let’s keep it strictly about buc ball. If you were not referring to me, I apologize for the assumption.
To all of the “let’s lose one to get one” bandwagon have you not weighed what it does to the psyche to the men on the team, the free agents that a hc will try to lure in, the staff both administration and coaching, and the precedent that the loss will set historically. Teams are built by setting and achieving goals, building continuity in the off-season that creates a brotherhood on the field. No team sets a goal at the start of the season to have the #1pick nor to choose a certain week to lose, it is illogical. The discussion we should be having is who is our best OC candidate, then we can discuss who is the best QB that fits our new OC’s scheme. Lastly, I think we all can agree that holding Green Bay to fgs for most of the game was a positive. In the locker room the defense has to fill like they are building and the skilled offensive players have to be frustrated because they know that once again the OL is their weakest link. Every player that has bought into Lovie’s plan is simply waiting to see if he follows through and fixes the need or sells out to popular opinion, or by some miracle accomplish both. Based on their needs and cap space I hope we turn our top draft pick into as many high second round picks as possible and get a few more free agents that can add some leadership who have come from super bowl teams that can lead our young program. Building blocks, that’s what we need, stability, patience, and the relentless pursuit of excellence… not a loss.
Peace. I’m out!
December 24th, 2014 at 10:23 am
Oh it was an assumption on MY part….and Im pretty sure I was correct…but its all good….I dont take stuff here too personal 🙂
But at no other time will I cheer for a loss. Catch me or those logically at my level, cheering for losses the first 10 games…..then you have something to preach to me about!!!
But anyway, we can DEF agree on attacking the fix for the O line….that should be first and foremost!
December 25th, 2014 at 10:41 am
I will be at the game Sunday wearing my jersey inside out to support this same stance for #1