What Did Lovie Expect?
November 18th, 2014
Lovie Smith says things are ahead of schedule in one area of the Buccaneers’ development.
Man, that left Joe scratching his head last night.
Speaking on the Buccaneers Radio Network yesterday, Lovie was asked whether the win in Washington was “how you envisioned what Buc Ball would be?”
Lovie replied with an emphatic, “Yes.” He said forcing takeaways and pressuring the quarterback were the prime indicators on defense.
But it was Lovie’s offensive answer that raised Joe’s antennae.
“And offensively, of course, ball security. The part we would all say we still need to still do a better job of to complete our version of Buc Ball is running the football,” Lovie said. “”You know the passing part, it’s come around. It’s come along even faster than we thought. We need to still be able to run the football on the offensive side, and then that will be what we envision our football team looking like.”
So Lovie says the passing game has “come along even faster than we thought.” Wow! What does that mean? And what did Lovie expect in Week 11 from a veteran offensive line, his hand-picked veteran quarterback and the Dunkaneers receivers?
That sure was odd. There are many ways in which one could read between the lines.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:00 am
wow, beating the chest after beating a terrible team, smh!
shockingly, the bucs are rated 19th in the league in passing yards per game Avg.
Of course Glennon’s yards are much higher than McCown. in fact if it was just based on McCown the bucs would be rated 29th!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:00 am
My guess is it alludes to the development of Mike Evans.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:01 am
Wow, a victory over a disfunctional Redskin team and all is well……
Haruuumph……still couldn’t run the ball…..there were wide open receivers that the inept RGIII couldn’t hit…..
We’ve got one receiver……maybe one and a half receivers
Oh yeah, all is well ……..
November 18th, 2014 at 10:01 am
I don’t think Lovie thought Evans would be a dominate beast by game 8. Evans is way ahead of schedule. Especially for a guy that never really ran routes before.
That’s how I read between the lines, anyways.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:03 am
Really? McCown grew for 600 yards the last two games
November 18th, 2014 at 10:05 am
@TBR:
Stow the pessimism about “beating a terrible team.”
The Bucs are more than capable of losing to terrible — even dreadful — teams. Beating up the slow fat kid is an accomplishment, not a given, in these here parts.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:16 am
He was probally just thinking of mike Evans when he said that.. I hope lol. Cause I mean as bucs fans we can all agree we got a slam dunk pick in mike Evans.. Not even calvin came out this strong as a rookie.. Randy moss did but I mean, when you play football you use the term moss so he is the GOAT in my eyes
November 18th, 2014 at 10:18 am
I agree. Lay off the discredit of beating a bad team. Yeah they are bad and yeah we beat them b6 TWENTY points in their home turf. How many times have we been beaten by bad teams this year on our own turf. Not anointing us a good team but this was a good victory and a step in the right direction. So to all the negative Nancy types on the page, you have the right to be negative and the rest of us have the right to think what we think about all of you.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:19 am
Lol people are gonna hate this guy soooo much next May when he drafts a lineman, The vitriol will be intense.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:20 am
What he is hinting is forget about Winston
November 18th, 2014 at 10:23 am
lol
more evidence lovie is a baffoon.
“how about we beat a bad team that thought we were a cake walk. there is much more to do.”
thump that chest as soon as you can lol
November 18th, 2014 at 10:25 am
Huh?
Wha…
November 18th, 2014 at 10:27 am
Maybe he meant from the reset button after accepting that we stink –
November 18th, 2014 at 10:29 am
In an entire paragraph, he had two sentences where he was pleased with something. The rest was stating what they need to do better.
That’s called pounding the chest? Get real.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:29 am
It’s always funny to me how some people can’t help but be critical, even when we play a great game (for once). Nobody here is suggesting we are a great team, but you feel the need to continue to criticize. What purpose does that serve? Does it make you feel more like a man? No matter what Lovie says, you will criticize. Be happy for a week! I will never understand why anyone would willingly be a fan of a team if all they do is criticize week in and week out. Yes we beat a bad team. Yes we still have a lot of holes. No, we aren’t going to the playoffs. Who the hell cares? We won, it feels good, ENJOY IT!!! You probably won’t have to wait too long before you can complain again, but this is not the week.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:30 am
Lovie did not say all is well. He just said that the offense is progressing faster than he thought based on the personnel. He alluded that the running game still needs a lot of work as we all know. Think people!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:35 am
all the passing game needed was a defense to cover our stud WR with a LB. We found the missing piece!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:36 am
2 wins in 8 games, Lets not get ahead of ourselves Lovie!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:36 am
HawaiianBuc, even against a bad team, a win is a win. Agree.
The frustration, at least in my case, is that you need a freaking secret decoder ring to understand what Lovie is saying.
If fans can’t understand what the hell he saying, how can the players?
November 18th, 2014 at 10:37 am
lovie is the new version of ray Charles, except he forgot the lyrics, let me remind him. hit the road jack and don’t you come back no more!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:38 am
It’s always funny to me how some people can’t help but be critical
________________
This coming from someone who was one of the loudest Schiano haters last year “week in and week out”. But now, Lovie wins a game and we’re supposed to enjoy a turd that has been slightly polished for one week.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:40 am
alanbucs Says:
Lovie did not say all is well. He just said that the offense is progressing faster than he thought based on the personnel. He alluded that the running game still needs a lot of work as we all know. Think people!
————————————-
When you overhaul 80% of the OL, hand pick your QB- no competition, spend every single draft pick on offense, and your happy about the 2-8 offense?
I submit that it’s you that should be thinking more.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:42 am
There is an old song BY Joe Jones, 1960.
“YOU TALK TOO MUCH”
You talk too much
You worry me to death
You talk too much
You even worry my pet
You just talk
Talk too much
You talk about people
That you don’t know
You talk about people
Wherever you go
You just talk
Talk too much
You talk about people
That you’ve never seen
You talk about people
You can make me scream
You just talk
you talk too much
November 18th, 2014 at 10:43 am
I think maybe Lovie was realistic about the offense not being great coming out with a new QB, rookie WR, etc. He’s probably also taking into consideration that his QB was out for a long while. Surely he expected ball security to be much better on O. He was expecting the passing game to be dink and dunk, with extra ball security. The deep passing game, “Airing it out”, is probably the surprise to him, and is beyond his expectations.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:43 am
It’s no big mystery why the run game didn’t get going. Everyone in the stadium saw that they were forcing the ball to Sims. If I saw it then I know that the defense saw it and reacted accordingly.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:46 am
He means it came along very fast once Glennon was back holding a clipboard. The MGM should prepare itself for their hero to be traded during the draft.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:46 am
@lightningbuc,
I want you to go back to the archives. Find where I criticized him after a win. I cheered harder than anyone for my Bucs under Schiano. Even though I couldn’t stand him, I still spent my hard earned money to fly the 4 members of my family from Hawaii to attend 3 home games last year. t didn’t want to give him the coach of the year award after a win, but I’m not doing that for Lovie either. So before you start accusing me of stuff, get your sh!t right!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:49 am
note to self.
don’t be critical.
even when a coach destroy your team.
don’t be critical
even when a coach leads you to abandon a team
don’t be critical
even when a coach is a bafoon
don’t be critical
when we win be thankful and enjoy it, soak in the cool aid and citicize the people who do not agree.
got it.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:51 am
oh no he di-int!
hawaii, layin the smack down while bragging about his deep pockets.
you go buuoyyyy!
November 18th, 2014 at 10:51 am
@biffbarker
Lovie never said he was happy! Where are you getting this from? They made some bad moves no doubt, but they also made some that could set us up well for the future. He went totally offense in the draft when everyone said he wouldn’t! Give him some credit. If he did nothing to fix the offense then people would have whined about that. I’m just saying that its been years of mismanagement that Lovie and Licht have to now fix.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:52 am
@biff barker,
Here’s the thing, Lovie has to do these press conferences. It’s mandatory. I don’t know what he’s supposed to say. Half the people want him to be positive, the other half wants him to say we suck and he should be fired. There’s no pleasing everyone. Why the assumption that he speaks the same to his players?
Look at Bill Bellicheat. Have you ever seen one of his press conferences? You can never tell if they won the Super Bowl or lost by 40. Judging by these press conferences alone, would you think his players would want to play for him? No, but to a man they all say that’s not how he is to them. These coaches don’t want to do these press conferences, but they have to. They don’t want to divulge anything to the media, so you get a ton of generic coach speak. As for myself, I listen to the press conferences because I’m pretty much obsessed with the Bucs, but I don’t think there’s much (if anything) to gain from it.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:56 am
Bill Belichick can go 45 mintues and have said literally nothing. Lovie needs to learn a thing or two about that approach.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:59 am
I am somewhat confused, ME13 catches passes for more than 200 yards, including the one called back for a penalty, and this did not open up the running game, why would Lovie think that there was not something wrong with his running game, like play calling?
November 18th, 2014 at 10:59 am
Listen here’s the thing. Washington stinks. They are a mess.
The Bucs need to have a performance like that against one of the better teams in the league before I would even consider saying “we are on the right track.”
November 18th, 2014 at 10:59 am
So, you guys got upset about us not winning the games that we’re supposed to win and now you’re upset because this was a game that we were supposed to win. I’m pretty sure that the fans of other teams had no problem with enjoying the wins that they had over us all season so far.
I realize that Florida is a retirement destination but it seems like all of you are the old men yelling at people to get off your lawn and keeping errant footballs that come over your fence.
November 18th, 2014 at 10:59 am
@Hawaiianbuc:
Exactly. People accuse those of us who Dont read negativity into everything Lovie says as being blind allegiants. Isn’t hypocritical though because the same people twist Lovie’s words to mean what ever they want them to?
November 18th, 2014 at 11:01 am
The sooner the Glazers hire a president of football ops the better.Lovie is clueless . He needs to be castrated from making player personnel decisions when it comes to the draft or free agents.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:04 am
@Robert9,
So you think you are qualified, as strictly a fan, to call a long time NFL coach (with a pretty damn good amount of success) a bafoon after 10 games? And what exactly did he destroy? The team was destroyed when we fired Gruden and got rid of #55 (and a bunch of others). Where have you been the last 6 years? Lovie is cleaning up a chess pool of an organization, and you think he’s a “bafoon” because we aren’t competing for the playoffs in year one? We’re all disappointed in this season, but once you stop drinking the Kool-Aid, it’s really not that big of a surprise. New roster, new scheme, and a new coaching style add up to some struggles for most teams. We don’t have the talent of a team like the Chiefs had a few years ago. They had like 8 Pro Bowlers the year they were the worst team in the league. We haven’t had more than 3 since the Super Bowl! We swung and missed on most of our free agents (still think Verner is going to be good eventually), but that’s pretty normal for free agency. However, had he not tried, we would have all complained as well. However, it looks like we had a pretty good draft, including a home run with Evans (knock on wood).
So yes, in a miserable season, I do think we should just sit back and enjoy this win. This season is over, and it has been for a while. We may not win too many more. Why not just lay off the team for one week, then resume after their next loss. If anyone says we are great and Lovie should be coach of the year, I’ll join you in crushing them. I’ve yet to see anyone say that. You just don’t have to be an arse hole after we finally look like a NFL team.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:05 am
@CC:
And how many good football personnel decisions have you made lately?
November 18th, 2014 at 11:06 am
*stupid autocorrect, “cess pool”
November 18th, 2014 at 11:08 am
“hawaii, layin the smack down while bragging about his deep pockets.”
——
Believe me, my pockets aren’t that deep.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:12 am
gruden kept us competitive with has beens until kiffin pulled the rug out on a playoff run.
a good coach does not have to gut a roster and get peanuts in return for players. they use what they have.
this excuse about what came before him is just that IMO. What I see is a team that is letting guys go to move on and become stars, overpaying has beens, getting zero trade value, getting blown out like never before….
I will admit, I was not in line when God issued empathy, but I have no use for this coaching staff until they prove me otherwise. and one game against a bad team who probably was at the strip club till Sunday am. is no reason to thump your chest. it’s just my opinion.
lovie looks like he’s about to give mccown a jump in that picture.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:16 am
Those of us critical of Lovie are still rooting hard for the Bucs. To insinuate otherwise is silly.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:20 am
Robert9,
Keep preaching, brother. Like I said a few weeks ago, you were the ONLY poster who stated immediately after the Mankins trade that you hated it, while everyone else was orgasming over Grandpa Logan. And you took a lot of crap, people calling you a hater, etc.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:22 am
@Robert9,
As for thumping your chest, again, who is doing that? Who here is saying we are great? I sure as hell haven’t heard Lovie say that, nor have I heard one player, or any fan.
Aside from Revis, who exactly did Lovie let go that has become a star (for the record, I’m still pissed about getting rid of Revis. Single dumbest move Lovie has made in my opinion. He gets no kind of a pass on that one)? Donald Penn? Pretty sure he won’t be attending the pro bowl this year. Neither will Davin Joseph. They may be a little better than what we currently have, but they are much older and I don’t think losing them has been the difference in our season. What other great player did Lovie get rid of? I’m so confused by that logic.
And I am not and will not compare Lovie Smith to Jon Gruden. As far as I’m concerned, they should rename our stadium to Jon Gruden field. But to be fair, Gruden came to this organization when it was in much better shape than it is now. I don’t think Gruden, Harbaugh, Lombardi, or anyone else would turn this team around in one season.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:27 am
i’m in the headhunting biz. i may not be a football expert, but i know a crap deal when i see one. i.e. when someone is not going to work out long term.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:30 am
@ Alan
I don’t get paid million to make them.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:33 am
“coming around” hardly means he believes the passing game has arrived.
When you have a rookie ranked tenth in the NFL in receiving that is better than you would expect. And going 200+ for the first time since Moss.
But any silly little thing brings the cascade of hate………………..
The man is trying to turn around a failed franchise, failed since this same group of bitching goobers ran a fine coach like Gru out of town.
Go Lovie.
November 18th, 2014 at 11:37 am
I liked the Revis move, not complaints there, I am on record as saying Penn needed to be moved as well.
But….replace with someone better and OR has more upside potential. it’s called bench strength.
Collins is not better than Penn and he sure as hell aint bench strength or a young buck on the rise
Joseph- who did we replace him with??
Zuttah – playing pretty damn well in Baltimore while EDS looks like he does not give a damn
Mankins- we gave a 4th and pay him how much???
Tim Wright – better stats, more TD’s than ASJ, and ASJ is a penalty waiting to happen
Barron- playing him no to his strengths, what did we get for him again? paid a 1st and got a 4th
M Williams. got a 4th, not a bad move, but might have gotten someone in the deal
now their gonna trade Martin for a bag of chips? another 1st rounder
It’s as much on the GM, maybe one too man beers before he makes a phone call, but Lovie is in charge. and his coaching is what leads to a lot of these moves in not getting the best from his players. I could go on, but they are gutting the roster and expect to replace 1st and 2nd round picks with guys from the back end of the draft???
good luck with that!
November 18th, 2014 at 11:47 am
So who were these available free ages that Lovie could have brought in to turn this disaster around in one season?
We should have kept more of the same group from the rockstar era?
Barron? First round bust not drafted by Lovie.
Williams? Already demanding out of Buffalo. No factor at all. 8 catches for 142 yards for the season.
Martin hasn’t had a good game since the raiders two years ago.
Penn? How are the raiders doing?
November 18th, 2014 at 11:49 am
Hawaiian=right.
robert9=wrong, bitter, grumpy.
Also, Robert9 keeps spelling buffoon wrong. Who is the buffoon?
November 18th, 2014 at 11:55 am
I know what he didn’t expect, he didn’t expect his offensive coordinator to disappear without a trace for the entire season. That factor alone changes all expectations.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:00 pm
Rooting for a loss does so that we could get a better draft position not equate to rooting for the Bucs.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:01 pm
“He means it came along very fast once Glennon was back holding a clipboard.”
_______________
This is what I got out of it.
As far as all the pessimists on this here, just enjoy the f**king win. Most of you are former MGMers, you wanted to give Glennon 2 years, at least give Lovie 16 games.
I swear, if it werent for all these haters, JBF would have closed shop years ago. Quit hating on Lovie and get back to hating your lives! ..bunch of fa*gots
November 18th, 2014 at 12:04 pm
@Brandon:
Exactly. Some Dont want to take those factors into account they only want some one to blame (Lovie) for all of the Bugs deficiencies when there are many factors. This is year one for Lovie. He is trying to fix years of bad decision making by the front office and they expect it to be done in year one. Succesful orginazations (Seattle, Indy, New England, Denver) build stability and continuity (something we haven’t had since Dungy/ Gruden).
November 18th, 2014 at 12:05 pm
Bucs
November 18th, 2014 at 12:07 pm
all hail lovie.
friggin sheep
November 18th, 2014 at 12:10 pm
@robert9
Who is better than Revis that was available? Verner was a pro bowler, and is younger. I still hate the move, but according to what you want, it should have made you thrilled.
As for Wright, are you serious? In 2 less games, ASJ has more catches and more yards. Oh yeah, and Wright just so happens to play for the greatest QB of all time (in my opinion. that can be argued, but it’s safe to say he’s better than Glennon and/or McCown on their best day). Nice try making crap up, but you tried that on the wrong person.
Barron has barely hit the field in St. Louis, and his only splash play there is having Carson Palmer tear his ACL while moving away from Barron’s missed tackle. Barron sucks no matter what round he was drafted in. Wake me when he even cracks the starting lineup for the Rams.
Nobody was trading for M. Williams. We tried! He sucks too, can’t even dress for Buffalo.
Sounds to me like you are blaming Lovie for all the mistakes of Dominik and/or Schiano. If a guy sucks, get rid of him. Why do you think they should get special treatment because they were drafted in the first? Would you like Freeman back too?
November 18th, 2014 at 12:16 pm
I guarantee, the same people who keep hating on Lovie,
a) former MGMers
b) Dominik haters
c) Schiano Apologists
d) have small penises that have turtled up inside them on this cold day
November 18th, 2014 at 12:25 pm
^ Seems pretty accurate to me, lol.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:34 pm
Dinnerplate cut through all the nonsense and got to the heart of where all of this contempt is coming from.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
Perhaps Lovie felt that way because they had no OC and did the coordination by committee. That obviously has had a negative impact on development but it seems that Arroyo is getting them(and himself) better prepared and improving in his play calling.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:49 pm
Lovie misses the playoffs twice as much as he makes it. The only people who think he’s a great coach are people who like failing 2/3 times. Congrats I guess? Some of us have loftier goals than pure mediocrity.
Andy Reid though? Now there’s a great coach, about to up his playoff make percenatge to a cool 69%, or more than double that of Lovie. Lovie is a mediocre coach, people need to accept that. He’s not going to make us a perennial contender, at best we’ll be an occasional contender when everything breaks right. But we will not be becoming New England under Lovie. If we’re lucky we’ll get back to how it was under Gruden.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Seems to me Lovie is referring to the pass protection of the offensive line which for most of this year has mostly been – um – offensive.
November 18th, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Please get us back to where we were under Gruden.
That Lombardi trophy was sweeeeeeet.
And the three Division Titles and four winning seasons.
Please please please.
November 18th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
HawaiianBuc Says:
November 18th, 2014 at 10:29 am
I will never understand why anyone would willingly be a fan of a team if all they do is criticize week in and week out.
——————————————————————————-
Did you just get here Hawaiian? Welcome to JoeBucsFan comments section….
This is just how “fans” who are negative as hell in their daily lives roll. Misery loves company and this is the miserable Bucs fan’s congregating place. Just accept it or find another Bucs site to frequent and comment on where the publishers don’t feed and encourage the trolls so regularly.
November 18th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
My gawd I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you robert9, but I do believe that when a new coach comes into a team, then tend to want their guys. Lots of coaches don’t just stick with what they got. Whether he got it right or wrong with the new players is not my point. My point is exactly what I just said, new coaches usually let a lot of players from the previous coach go.
Lovie will get this right. I think it’s just a matter of time. I know it doesn’t look good right now, but perhaps Lovie needed to shake off some rust even though he was only out of the NFL for a year.
I still don’t like this total control over everything Bucs via Lovie thing though. So far to me it looks like a failed plan.
November 18th, 2014 at 1:53 pm
2-8 with the potential to go 2-14 or 3-13. That’s acceptable bc “it takes time”. Does NOT matter that rookie head coaches Raheem and Greg both had better records with worse teams. Neither made 5 mil a year or had total control but hey STFU and stop being negative you fag**ts.
It’s 1969 and this is the way it’s supposed to be.
Tell you what, if and when Lovie beats Green Bay then I’ll give credit where it’s due. Sunday just showed me that a rookie DE is a 100x better than Lovies $48m FA and that a rookie wr is a better play caller than the 12 year veteran back up of a QB. So our win was due to rookies outplaying Lovies high priced FA. But hey it takes time maybe next year or the year after we can have more than 2 wins by November and mccown can beat a team with a winning record.
November 18th, 2014 at 1:55 pm
2-8
November 18th, 2014 at 1:56 pm
it means he thought his quarterbacks were garbage and it was a bleak situation but with Mccowns play the last few games he is basically saying he is surprised especially with the way the line is playing
November 18th, 2014 at 2:17 pm
@robert9,
How many times did the Bears go to the playoffs before Lovie got there? How many times after? I do think Reid is a fantastic coach. One problem though, I don’t remember him being available? I must have missed that. One things all these consistent teams have in common is great ownership. What was Bellicheck in Cleveland? Unfortunately, we don’t have great ownership, at least when it comes to the football side. That’s probably not going to change, so asking to be a perennial contender is a bit far fetched.
Lovie is a good coach, not necessarily a bad coach. He is, however, a million times better than Morris and Schiano combined. Getting a great coach is about as hard as getting a great QB. Not very easy. Who would you want that we could get? It’s easy to criticize, but much harder to find alternatives. Assuming you would want some coordinator, keep in mind how often that fails. Throughout his career, Lovie has consistently fielded good teams. Spinning the numbers in the opposite way that you did, he only has had 3 losing season in 9 years (one of which was his first season). He went to the Super Bowl with Rex Freaking Grossman as his QB! That alone should at least get a trophy. We haven’t had back to back winning seasons in what seems like forever. We haven’t had a good team in a long time. But instead of complaining, give me an alternative, and a reasonable one. You can’t and you probably won’t. Instead you’ll just continue to hate. That’s your move.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Sorry, that was directed at bucrightoff. My apologies robert9.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
“If we’re lucky we’ll get back to how it was under Gruden.”
——-
yes, please.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:31 pm
In 1996 Tony Dungy started the season 2-8, after taking over a team that had gone 7-9 under Sam the year before.
They were blown out three games in the first half of the season.
Took a little time to get it turned, but when it did Tony never had another losing season.
It can happen again. Anyone can see they are improving.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:39 pm
“Anyone can see they are improving.”
——
not the experts of JBF. They know we aren’t, because they are football experts, and we are nothing but sheep.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:46 pm
1996 was 1996. Do you realize how different the game is now? It’s not even in the same ballpark, totally different games, totally different eras. As to improving, if by improving you mean playing Cleveland, Atlanta and Washington, two horrible teams and a mediocre one, then yeah, we’ve improved. Last 5 games are going to be much, much, much more telling as they Bucs figure to be touchdown underdogs in all but one of them. We’ll see how much better they are, but when you look at the schedule you could see 4 potential blowouts out there. So we’ll learn a lot more from those games than the ones we just saw.
As far as Lovie, you have to remember when he made the playoffs at the poor rate he did, he was doing so in an utterly horrible division. For the better part of his time he had 3 wins before the season even started (sweeping the Lions and a split against Minny was guaranteed). Andy Re
Point being, Lovie is a middle of the road coach. He is not some upper echelon coach no matter what people want to think (or more likely, hope). Mike Smith made the playoffs more in his first 5 years than Lovie has in 10. We’re not considering him upper echelon are we? I didn’t think so. People need to stop acting like Lovie is a saviour.
My solution would have been to never hire Lovie in the first place and go after a dynamic offensive minded coach. But since we’re here now, fire Lovie and get Todd Bowles. Bowles is putting up a borderline elite defense with tons of injuries. He has shown amazinglu adaptability and knows how to adapt his scheme to the players. Seriously doubt Lovie could do the same.
November 18th, 2014 at 2:48 pm
My poiny about Reid was cut off but he made it 9/14 times in a very difficult division. He’s a truly great coach. Lovie is a mediocre coach. He’s not taking us to consistent contender status, marginal contender is best case scenario.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:01 pm
@bucrightoff,
How do you know Bowles would be a good head coach? Do you realize how different it is to be a coordinator versus being a head coach. Do you need a list of all the “great” coordinators that have flopped? Look at the entire staff of the Patriots as exhibit 1. Besides, the Cardinals are absolutely LOADED on defense. Pretty sure there are a lot of guys out there, including Lovie, that could do well with that kind of talent.
I also find it convenient that you don’t mention Green Bay. I also think you have forgotten how good Minnesota was during most of Lovie’s tenure. It’s just an absolutely ridiculous statement, which is what you do so well. Do you honestly believe the North has been worse on average than the East? The Redskins and Cowboys have been the very definition of mediocre, and the Giants are as inconsistent as any team could be.
I like Reid, but he’s got his share of criticisms. He’s got the same number of championships as Lovie, for the record. Kansas City had a great base of talent when he got there, which is something we did not have. But again, he wasn’t available, so it really doesn’t matter.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:10 pm
Kansas City had a great base of talent when he got there, which is something we did not have.
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If that were true, why were so many experts predicting the Bucs to be the surprise team this year and to make the playoffs. Why would so many predict playoffs and even Super Bowl (Herm Edwards) if the Bucs were void of a great base of talent? Keep makin excuses for Lovie the Great Player Respecter.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:11 pm
One thing that almost always directly links a coach’s success with a coach’s failures is his QB. Lovie has never had a great QB. While it could be argued that he deserves some of the blame for that, he wasn’t the GM in Chicago. I don’t care who the coach, they aren’t going to be successful with piss poor QB play. It’s the one position you can’t cover up. You can have an all-pro roster, but without at least an above average QB, you are going to struggle. Get Lovie a QB, and we’ll be just fine. Give him Glennon (or McCown for that matter), and we’ll be thrilled with being mediocre.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:19 pm
@lightningbuc,
Quite simply, they were wrong. You never know how guys are going to fit into a new system. I thought Mason Foster, for example, would be successful in the Tampa 2. He’s been pretty bad. Although he’s still had a great year, Lavonte clearly isn’t comfortable in the new system yet, judging by his lack of splash plays. Goldson will just never be an impact player again. I don’t care what system he’s in. He’s clearly scared to draw a fine. Can’t say I blame him. All that probably wouldn’t matter if Michael Johnson were half the player we paid him to be. He is the number one reason our defense has sucked. To top it all off, he loafs. Lovie deserves the blame obviously, but at the same time, it’s impossible to predict how a player is going to react to getting a fat contract. Johnson has been terrible, and barring a miraculous finish, shouldn’t be on the team next year.
I’m sure Lovie and Licht also overestimated our talent. It’s just not there, minus a few players. Nobody is voiding him of blame, but at at the same time, he’s not to blame for everything. Not in year one. As I have repeatedly said, there needs to be huge improvement by this time next year. If we gave Schiano 2 years, why wouldn’t Lovie deserve 2 years? He isn’t getting fired anyway, so you might as well copy and paste your b!tching, because you’re going to use it over and over again for a while. Sucks to be you.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:24 pm
The Vikings had fewer than 6 wins in four of Lovies nine season in Chicago. That’s a good team? Jeez I guess compared to what we’ve done recently sure, but that is not a good team. I think you only remember 2009 and think that was the Vikings during Lovie’s time, but they were essentially a bottom third team in the NFC most of his time there. The Packers were better, and they feasted on that weak division for years.
Between 2005 and 2009, the NFC East had more years sending THREE teams to the playoffs than the NFC North did TWO. People seem to forget how strong the NFC East was in that period, and how overrated it was in the years after because of it. The NFC East was much, much more difficult than the North in that time. The South was much stronger in that period too. NFC North was mostly weak when Lovie was there
Kansas City has had a decent amount of roster turnover since Andy got their. Difference is, Andy knows how to coach to his talent, Lovie knows how to coach his scheme and that’s it.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:32 pm
Over analyzed
November 18th, 2014 at 3:38 pm
@bucrightoff,
The overall win percentage of the 2 divisions is almost exactly even. What better stat do you want? It is certainly not one sided by any stretch. A lot of those playoff teams from the East were when the NFC was down, and they were getting in with 8-8 and 9-7 records. Am I lying?
Kansas city did have a very big roster turnover. However, they had 8 pro bowlers from the year before, and I believe every one came back. We had 2, and Lovie stupidly got rid of one. That’s what I’ve always said – you don’t get rid of one of the few really good players on your roster. You don’t create a hole when it’s unnecessary. Lovie did that, and it was a terrible mistake that I still have a hard time letting go.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:42 pm
In 2006-2008, the East sent 4 teams with 9 wins or less to the playoffs. Not exactly an outstanding division by any stretch.
November 18th, 2014 at 3:48 pm
Using division win% is faulty because when you think about it, that would hyper inflate the AFC South in that period as Indy consistently had 11-14 wins, an outstanding winning percentage (i.e. Indy can go 14-2 and another team in that divison 2-14m but it’s a “.500” division. Record against non-divisional opponents works better but still has flaws). But that division was clearly a dumpster fire nearly the entire time Peyton was there, they essentially won it by default most years.
And saying 9 wins is what it takes to get in underscores how bad the NFC North was because they usually only had one team above .500. At least the South and East would always have 2 and sometimes 3. NFC South and NFC East have clearly been the stongest divisions in the post-2001 realignment. North and West easily the two worst.
November 18th, 2014 at 4:03 pm
As we continue to overanalyze this, I really hate you for making me look all this crap up. The East did have 3 more winning teams TOTAL over the 9 years Lovie was in Chicago. So while I guess you can say it was statistically better, it’s not better by much. If you really look at it, they are actually pretty damn even. About as even as you can get in fact. Saying the North usually only had one team over 500 is completely false, but I’m sure you already know that. But again, I like Andy Reid, but didn’t realize he was available for hire last year.
November 18th, 2014 at 5:29 pm
while some of you are looking stats up. Jon gruden led the Bucs to a .469 winning percentage in the six years following the superbowl and 2 first round
playoff losses. Look it up. He wrecked a system that drafted and groomed young players. he and Bruce allen stockpiled the team with too many high priced over the hill players. Glad he won the superbowl for us,but from a player personnel standpoint he left the team in shambles. so raheem thought
he had to purge to the team including derrick Brooks. and his youngry players
were no better than the golden oldies.Shiano let go of some pretty good d lineman and brought in too many Rutgers players. I don’t know who gets the credit for drafting Mccoy and david.Evans has proven to be a stud. We need several more years of good drafting of young talent to build this team back to
what is was.
November 18th, 2014 at 6:03 pm
I have been as confused and frustrated as anybody by progress of the team.
Derrick brooks told a story of a game he played that he thought he had a pretty good game. He has a meeting with Lovie gave him a C grade. the point is
this evaluation system appears to be in place. example: starting QB doesn’t
play well backup gets a look.He didn’t perform well so back to starter.He has been plugging new players in places and it paid off this week.I have seen him plug in Gilkey and Pamphille to see where their progress is. Smith is another example.
So I am gradually changing my opinion to a wait and see on Lovie.