Painful Truth On Defense’s Learning Curve
October 15th, 2014
Joe got a sobering take from Alterraun Verner
Win-now Buccaneers fans aren’t going to want to hear this. But it represents painful reality from arguably the most intelligent player on the Buccaneers’ roster.
Yesterday, Joe asked Pro Bowl cornerback Alterraun Verner whether he felt he was reacting 100 percent instinctively in the Bucs’ defense and had a thorough grasp of its nuances.
“No, I definitely wouldn’t say that,” Verner said. “And I would say expectations, when I said during preseason that I thought it would take a few preseason games or a couple of games, it’s taken longer than I anticipated. But I’m not giving that as an excuse for why we haven’t been performing. We still should be making plays and doing things out there. I think we’re still trying to grasp all the ways of this system because there are a lot of details in it.”
Verner said the bye week will afford more valuable classroom time and film study.
[The bye week study] is going to be more mental and we can really decipher what’s going on and what people’s responsibilities are,” Verner said.
So there you have it. Defensive players are still learning Lovie Smith’s defense. And they’re struggling while they learn.
Based on Joe’s chats with defensive linemen, it seems the greatest learning curve is in pass coverage among the back-7. Regardless, the Bucs clearly aren’t performing well what they have mastered. Things shouldn’t be this bad and on the decline.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:06 am
Still should be making SOME progress, right? I mean, they’re not learning less as time goes on, are they? When your opponent knows what you’re doing better than you do, maybe your classroom isn’t working so well.
Maybe they can use sock puppets, it works in kindergarden.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:08 am
Maybe they haven’t mastered anything yet thats why its historically bad. I think this defense is more complicated then people give it credit for and it works if everything is executed correctly. Things will get better it cant get much worse
October 15th, 2014 at 9:10 am
Louis Friend..funny^^^^^^^^^^^^and true!
October 15th, 2014 at 9:11 am
If this defense is so drastically complicated to learn and teach then why wasn’t it “phased” in with a working defense familiar to the players that would have at least made the team competitive when the season started and gradually this “new defense” when learned could have taken over.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:11 am
I guess that’s why the Bucs secondary plays so soft at the LOS because it takes at least a half of a season to learn how to jam a WR.
It’s just more and more excuses from these losers.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:13 am
NFLosophy broke down the game on his twitter last night. He has about 50 tweets about it. Worth checking out. Long story short: We dont have the horses to run this defense and, like Verner said, they are still clueless on what to do. Especially the safeties and line backers.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:16 am
@biff barker
Hey Biff, they’re on their way to setting the all time record for points allowed, give them some credit for accomplishments once in a while.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:16 am
Because this is the defense Lovie wants to be the foundation of the football team I see what your saying but its hard to get film on it , correct it and master it when you don’t use it against opponents. It may not be the same tampa 2 he could be adding new wrinkles to it
October 15th, 2014 at 9:17 am
i feel bead for these guys. i mean, they are getting paid, but they are being thrown to the wolves with clueless coaching, poor game planning and a predictable schemes on both sides of the ball
October 15th, 2014 at 9:17 am
Lovie”s son is the safetys coach.
Saying.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:34 am
There may be a long learning curve but it appears the team is lacking the talent as well. The lack of a pass rush and the lack of a pass defense in general isn’t just about the coverage calls. At some point the line between defensive scheme and the players ability to execute the scheme has to be drawn. I would anticipate more changes coming for the defense in the offseason. The secondary definitely needs more talent for starters.
October 15th, 2014 at 9:48 am
Joe
Would it do any good to hire your nursing home neglect attorneys to go after the front office/coaches for neglect?
October 15th, 2014 at 10:00 am
so if this is Lovie’s defense then what the hell is Frazier getting paid to do?
October 15th, 2014 at 10:06 am
This makes sense and would go a long way in explaining why the team has looked flat all season. They’re playing on their heels because they’re thinking too much and that puts them a step behind. Coupled with the offense playing a different offense than the one that Tedford practiced in the offseason and I can see why we’re struggling. As the great football mind Al Pacino said, “football is a game of inches”. That late step to get on their assignments has given the other teams the inches on us all season.
There will be some shake ups after this season and some new faces in the lineup but I think that having some players with knowledge of the system and some continuity will help it be a much more functional team next year.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:11 am
Let’s all hope you’re right Patrick. While it’s fun for Lovie to try and build a complex mousetrap it’s usually better to build one that actually works too regardless of how simple it may be. Lovie has the personnel, it’s up to him to tailor his ‘mousetrap’ to function with these guys currently on the roster. Glennon is right the NFC South isn’t out of total reach…yet
October 15th, 2014 at 10:23 am
The Bucs defense gets smoked on basic routes. How hard can it possibly be to cover the slant route for the 10th time that day?
October 15th, 2014 at 10:27 am
Well should the coaches not see when they are out of position and correct as soon as they come to the sidelines if not the next play? I don’t pretend to have the knowledge to be a coach but when the Ravens run the same play time and time again and complete it, you would think we could adjust and properly defense it.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:29 am
@TOTL – i know that it stings to use the cowboys as a comparison but they’re coming along in their defense the way that we’re hoping to. And that’s with Sean Lee being out for the year. It takes time, just like all the old school guys have said and just like we’ve seen in Dallas, Carolina, etc.
Chris Landry made a good analogy a few articles back. If you start building a house and you keep tearing it down before it’s finished then you can’t get upset that what you have is a mess. We just started building this house, let’s stop complaining about how it’s not keeping the rain off of us yet.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:44 am
ToesOnTheLine Says:
so if this is Lovie’s defense then what the hell is Frazier getting paid to do?
—————————————————-
Pretty good question.
His defensive staff has been a massive failure thus far.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:46 am
RealityCheck Says:
The Bucs defense gets smoked on basic routes. How hard can it possibly be to cover the slant route for the 10th time that day?
Maddening isn’t it?
No improvement.
More excuses.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:59 am
getting smoked on 10 yards slants….. LOL
thats about th time I change the channel after the umpteenth time.
pure stupidity at it’s finest for all the world to see. and nothing changed.
except my tv channel!
October 15th, 2014 at 11:01 am
I hear an echo. You Bucs fans are clueless. Hurry up and wait.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:01 am
All the more reason to play starters more in the pre-season. Especially when new systems are put in place. The offense did not want to show anything in the pre-season and now they are showing NOTHING in season games.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:10 am
Schiano’s Bucs rarely made excuses. This team needs to put up or shut up. I know they are being asked questions so they have to answer. Damn it I guess I have to read it too. Unfortunately.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:22 am
Either two of their first three picks and/or a couple of REAL FA D-linemen are what’s needed to make this defense work. If there is ZERO pressure on the QB, there isn’t a defense backfield in the league that can hold up to an ‘average’ offense. If you can get consistent harassing pressure, on the QB, you would need only ‘average’ talent at safety/corner.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:23 am
As a 20+ year Bucs fan, I find it disheartening that Joe believes ( and says on the radio ) How pathetic our team is and we are playing for next year…blah, blah, blah.
I guess I figured a FAN site, would have stories written by fans of the team. Not constantly moaning and groaning during a first year coaches challenges.
I am happy that I can be patient and wait for the good team Lovie is going to build.
That said, I can no longer listen to you guys on 620, it is not fun to listen to you two moan every week. Even Steve disagrees with you!
October 15th, 2014 at 11:28 am
@Keirster – then go away and take your faulty logic with you. The only people watching, talking, and writing about the Bucs are FANS. Everyone else ignores this horrid team and enjoys their Sundays. This is also coming from a 20+ year Bucs fan.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:36 am
@RealityCheck Faulty logic? You need to take your Faulty logic and go away.. I find it hard to believe that you as a Buc fan for 20+ years realistically expected Lovie Smith to turn this team around in his first year. The roster is horrid and NO other coach would be able to turn this around in a single year. I mean they talk about the players being soft, how about the fans being soft. All I hear is people crying like b!tches on this forum.. Why don’t you all MAN UP!
October 15th, 2014 at 11:54 am
@OneLove – Cool story bro, can you read? Faulty logic clearly refers to his belief that people are not being “fans” simply because they state how bad this team is.
Please show me where I said I “expected Lovie Smith to turn this team around in his first year”. I’ll wait. Can’t believe you use the term “MAN UP” to refer to being a fan of football. Too much bro logic for me.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:57 am
Why do all these players and coaches say they “aren’t going to make excuses” right before they give you an excuse?
October 15th, 2014 at 12:07 pm
No more free agency, or have three massive busts in a row (Wright, Goldson, Johnson) not convinced people it’s a horrible approach that only poor organizations choose to pursue? Draft is the way to go, but even then Lovie’s track record at evaluating talent is abysmal (remember Gaines Adams for a 2nd round pick?)
October 15th, 2014 at 12:09 pm
It’s okay Joe perhaps Keirster just needs to see the Bucs get beat over the head with a baseball bat a few more times this season for it to sink in.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
Jim says:
“All the more reason to play starters more in the pre-season. Especially when new systems are put in place. The offense did not want to show anything in the pre-season and now they are showing NOTHING in season games.”
From all these posts, this is the most profound! Everyone gets that it’s a new system, new coaches, etc… How do you get better? “We talkin’ ’bout PRACTICE”, to quote the great Allen Iverson. Reps, reps, and more reps.
Great point Jim!
October 15th, 2014 at 12:21 pm
are there HIRE SCHIANO signs up around town, yet?
October 15th, 2014 at 12:36 pm
Still learning the defense or not, whether intended or not that sounds like a jab at the head coach.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
Doesn’t matter because there’s zero pressure up front
October 15th, 2014 at 1:59 pm
what’s so damn complicated about playing cover 3? Then again we’re talking about dumb jocks. And they playing off so that’s even less complicated.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:15 pm
You know that it is not fair to even describe the defense as the Tampa 2 anymore, because it has evolved from the old days. It would be more appropriate to call it the “Chickens with their heads cut off 2”.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:20 pm
or Burnt 2, or Sieve 2, or Toast 2, I could go on………..
October 15th, 2014 at 7:41 pm
Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.
Vince Lombardi
October 19th, 2014 at 12:07 pm
This defense is predicated on up front pressure from the 4 D-linemen, we’re not getting enough and not dropping the QB when we do get there.
Like D. Brooks said, we are losing contain and gap integrity, also, how do you not jam receivers at the line when they are continuously beating you, especially in the seams? Only time you should play off the ball that far is when you have a large lead with just a few minutes left in the game and you are in “prevent” mode.
Regardless of whether the D is still learning the schemes, that doesn’t justify or excuse the poor tackling. How many yards have we given up after the first or second contact?
Finally, Lovie will right this ship, remember, many were ready to make Dungy walk the plank by his 7th game.