Bucs Got Worse Today
October 28th, 2014
Joe loves today’s Tampa Bay trades of Jonathan Casillas and Mark Barron. Beautiful work, Jason Licht!
However, these deals surely seem to run counter to the message sent by Lovie Smith.
Lovie keeps saying the Bucs are two games out of first place, right in the hunt of the NFC South title. So how exactly did the Bucs get better from these trades? How exactly do these deals help a team whose head coach says is a contender this season?
Barron wasn’t performing well, but he was no Sabby The Goat. His trade makes the Bucs painfully thin at safety.
As for the move of the now-healthy Casillas, Lovie was just raving about the guy last night on his radio show. Lovie was excited to have Casillas return Sunday as one of his “core players” on special teams. Casillas also, when healthy, offered at least solid depth at linebacker.
So the cold reality is the Bucs got worse today. That sure doesn’t appear to be the actions of a team that really believes it’s in the hunt for the playoffs.
Again, Joe’s fine with that. The Bucs have the worst record in the NFC and the rest of this season should be all about next year — even if the head coach won’t go there publicly.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:21 pm
I wonder if this may have been some sort of a locker room issue. I know they were suspended in the preseason, and Barron was benched to start one of the games (I think it may have been Carolina). Obviously they did something they weren’t supposed to do, so possibly that had something to do with it. Of course, it makes that decision much easier when they actually can’t play. Both have been huge disappointments this year. We may have gotten worse, but I feel pretty confident that we didn’t get much worse (of course if we get any worse, they may change our division to the SEC West).
October 28th, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Apparently, Lovie is good at shoveling bull spit. Like I don’t know that after this offseason of how “Buc fans have been patient enough and we are headed to the playoffs….”
If we thought our D was bad before, it is time to cover your eyes.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:23 pm
Its hard to get worse than the worst defense in the NFL.
Barron has had maybe one or two memorable plays in two and a half years, and Casillas, meh.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:23 pm
Barron. Was. TERRIBLE.
A bust in the pure sense of the word.
I said it before – to spend the 7 pick on a Safety, he better become Ronnie Lott.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:27 pm
So, we traded casilias to move from the top of the 6th to the very back of the 5th. Nice! Hopefully we find another b bowman in that shrewd move to move up a few spots
October 28th, 2014 at 9:28 pm
How much worse, exactly, did a dreadful 1-6 team get?
October 28th, 2014 at 9:28 pm
On paper, we are a little worse. In reality, we are….. Eh, who cares. Can’t get much worse.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:29 pm
I think the GM took control today…watch Lovies attitude get even worse after he got over ruled….
October 28th, 2014 at 9:32 pm
Way worse. Barron was NOT the problem. Bucs cover was not a fit for him. Im happy for Barron moving to a better situation and scheme and that buc fans wont bash him any longer. It’s funny how our run defense improved since he been here and that’s what he was good at. Cover 2 stinks in this day and age
October 28th, 2014 at 9:35 pm
@sho nuff, That is a interesting thought..
October 28th, 2014 at 9:35 pm
You’re wrong joe, look at barrons and sabbys stats. Sabby had more ints, 5 to 3, 3 times as many forced fumbles, 3 to 1and 4 less passes defended, 15 to 19 but that’s while sabby started close to fewer than 50 percent games less than barron
October 28th, 2014 at 9:39 pm
@Lamarcus,
What exact defensive scheme do you think he will excel in? One that requires him to not have to cover or tackle. The guy whiffs on just as many tackles as he makes. He is always late to the play, and he almost never makes a splash play. If you believe guys like Steve White and Derrick Brooks, he is also very sloppy in his preparation, as he is often misaligned or he misses his assignment. There’s not a scheme in the world that I know of that is going to take advantage of a safety that can’t cover, can’t tackle (consistently), and doesn’t prepare.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:40 pm
Agree la marcus. We’ll see what they so with these mid late round picks. Not sure how a 5th rd pick is better than cassillas unless he is a bad fit for Lovie’s defense or his contract is up next year. It’s hard to find productive players in the 5th or 6th round. According to Lovie, cassillas had value?
October 28th, 2014 at 9:42 pm
It’s not about bashing him at all. I defended him up until a couple weeks ago. He doesn’t even seem to care. He hasn’t improved one bit since he got here. Same mistakes every week. I don’t care what scheme you are in, if you can play, you will make some plays. He didn’t make any plays. Hell, he can’t even recover a fumble that bounces into his arms without fumbling it right back! This guy deserves the criticism, and he never once (to my knowledge) stepped up and took any responsibility for his poor play.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:44 pm
@Brent,
I do pretty much agree with you, but one thing you can do is use these picks to move up in an earlier round. Say you want to move up a few spots in the second round to get your guy, you could use one of these picks to do so. Of course, there’s no guarantee you we wouldn’t blow that pick too.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:57 pm
@hawaiian, I’m good with Barron deal but not sure why joe is so happy with cassillas deal? Maybe we can move up but that hurts our special teams and depth. Maybe joe will explain why he likes it? Starting to think licht is in love with bellicheat!
October 28th, 2014 at 9:58 pm
I’m happy we didn’t deal vjax or gholson got to have some decent veterans.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:59 pm
Geez really? Preach all well about taking players and when they actually do it talk about how much worse they are as if they can look much worse…. It’s been a bad season for the bucs and reading sports articles in Tampa just bad all around, gets harder every year to admit your a bucs fan
October 28th, 2014 at 10:04 pm
Whenever you lose a part time player like Cassillas, it’s not a big loss. The guy couldn’t stop fantasizing about NO anyway…
October 28th, 2014 at 10:09 pm
This team needs plenty of draft picks. Despite the Glazers making another coaching mistake, they won’t do anything with Lovie for at least 3 yrs. Add to this that their drafting acumen is suspect at best and we’re in for bad football for a long, long time. Bruce Ariens would have had us in the playoffs by now but the reason I say this is next time the owners should look for a proven OC.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:12 pm
Another season of holding my nose as I watch the Bucs languish, lose, and play for draft picks. It is all about playing for the future at this point. I agree with you Joe, and the HC cannot go there publicly with his statements. Thanking the heavens that Game Pass has not invented smell-o-vision or my family and I would have leave the house from the stench when I put on a Bucs game.
Still a fan and am not going anywhere. Come on Bucs!
October 28th, 2014 at 10:17 pm
How can you say we got worst when Casillias hasn’t even played the last couple of games, was terrible when he did play and wouldn’t even be a starter over Danny L at 100%. As for Barron as you wrote earlier today you would have traded him without even hearing an offer, you even referred to him as a bust. I believe even if we were 5-2 these two deals are smart, add in the fact that the season is a waste and it makes even more sense.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Lamarcus
“Barron was not the Problem”
You haven’t watched a game, have you?
No one who watched a football game would say something that Stupid.,
Barron was a defensive back, who can’t cover.
Similar to a truck driver who can’t drive a truck, or a musician who can’t play an instrument.
Yeah- it’s that big of a deal.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:20 pm
Surprised we didn’t trade Martin.
Love the guy, but he’s lost it
Lost it 2 years ago.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:22 pm
The head scratcher is the Casillas trade is only going to move the Bucs up 7-8 positions but I guess something is better than nothing.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Who gives a (heck)? Seriously? This team is underachieving to the nth degree. And if ownership is going to give a blank check to L&L for the next 2-3 years, then let us all sit back and watch the (crap) roll downhill. The spotlight should be on the fact that as a supposed defensive coach…you have THE WORST defense in the league! That is all on YOUR coaching, YOUR philosophy, & YOUR free agent signings. I hate to say this so early in the regime, but it might already be time for a scorched earth approach before we are waiting even longer for a playoff appearance.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Let’s not confuse thinner with worse. Yes Barron can play the run better than Sabby the Goat but was easily equally as bad in pass coverage. As weak as Keith Tandy is, he can’t be much worse. So yes they got a little thinner but worse is debatable.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:40 pm
Captain buc and Hawaii something. ….
So trading a safety that idk to ur knowledge was making the team worse sans a locker room problem and getting a late round picks make u feel better. Then more power to u. Go to St Louis rams sites and fans and they just loving the deal. There is a reason we r a laughing stock and some way when let go of some players they get better. In terms of schemes…. any idiot should know he is a front 8 player who needs to hit. What do u know when now he has front 7 support and now play up to his potential. We wanted Mark Barron to be not what he is good for but to be a coverage guy. Saban knew and made him a star. I do watch the games and clearly our offense is the biggest issue. Nuff said
October 28th, 2014 at 10:42 pm
@Capt Tim:
Surprised we didn’t trade Martin.
Love the guy, but he’s lost it
Lost it 2 years ago.
————————————————–
GREAT point. Me too. Question: what does L&L do in the next week or two when Sims comes off IR?
Martin + Rainey + James + Lane + Sims = TOO MANY RBs!
Some teams only carry 3. Most teams carry 4. Does ANYBODY carry 5?
October 28th, 2014 at 10:46 pm
Im w Windy city buc….. how many home grown talent we lost and go to other teams and shine. Simple logic. Our scheme sucks. Blame Barron but knowing football. ….the talent u have, dictates the scheme. I dont see ANY other team with this problem wel have. Is revis playing cover 2 or any zone that doesn’t fit for him? Nuff said
October 28th, 2014 at 10:52 pm
The title of the article made me think we extended Lovie’s contract by another 5 years.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:53 pm
Welp, if we didnt know this was a team in rebuild mode yet, we sure do now. There is absolutely no doubt about it. And being bucs fans, we know the routine. Get ready for a new QB, and pretty much all the old regimes players to find their way off this team at some point, high profile or not.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:54 pm
look there was a time and place for tampa 2 def. and that time is ended throw it in every now and then but you have to mix it up on D. Prime example was Hasslett on MNF. Offense spread the field and throw it up to 1 of 2 Giants at reciever right out the gate back that secondary up a little. Mix up the run and pass downs and for God sake stop with the screens we don’t have that shifty back
October 28th, 2014 at 10:55 pm
Its funny that the 2 player traded were players that had disciplinary sanctions during the season
October 28th, 2014 at 10:57 pm
What happened that they needed to be disciplined? Must have missed that.
October 28th, 2014 at 10:58 pm
@ Lamarcus
Rams fans know nothing more about Mark Barron other than that he was a #7 pick a couple years ago, much like how Bears fans were laughing their asses off at the fact that we thought Lovie was a good coach.
Barron is a bottom tier safety. He cant cover. Period.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:03 pm
@Joe
Does this mean that the “Hawk” will be taking over his old more natural SS position with Major Wright taking over at his more natural FS spot?? If so, I say the Buc’s actually got better today.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:10 pm
Got bucs
Bottom tier??? No such thing in the Nfl. No player they wouldn’t be on no Nfl team if they can’t play. Period. U have video game logic. This is not Madden football. Realist seems to think different. Barron is second on teams in tackles and 8 yards loss tackles that puts him 2nd in league since his arrival. All I can say that he was maybe a locker room problem or worse. Not trying to take up for the guy ( cuz I dont know him personally) but we have bigger issues than Barron. Trading Barron automatically makes us worse. Lovie Identified he didnt fit HIS cover none scheme and preparing to get guys that our cover 2 players i.e. Verner. Same reason he cut Revis
October 28th, 2014 at 11:15 pm
It’s going to take years to recover from the Dominic era. The problem now is that Licht has not shown that he will be any better and if he really is controlled by Lovie the you can forget it.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:26 pm
Scheme or no scheme, the guy had trouble covering and up until recently was having trouble tackling. Also, It’s not like he shined in the old coaching staff’s scheme either, so it’s not just Lovie. Was he the biggest issue? No. But obviously the coaching staff felt like he wasn’t part of the solution either. We might having gotten worse at that position, but it’s only for another 9 more games in already an abysmal season. If he’s not going to be a part of the solution going forward, then get what you can for him.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:30 pm
@Lamarcus,
I’m not saying he was a locker room cancer. All I was saying was maybe that was a possibility. He’s been suspended and benched early in the year.
On the football field, he has underperformed at every scheme. There is no longer a such thing as a safety that sits in the box and hits people all day. Those days are long gone in the NFL. Don’t agree, name me one. Every safety is forced to cover, and he is simply terrible in coverage. Not average, not disappointing, but horrendous. There’s no denying that. So you think he would be great if his team could just put 8 in the box on every play? Never going to happen. Besides, how did the 8 man front work when he was in the box against Baltimore? Missed tackles much?
As for Saban making him a star, Saban makes everyone a star. Ever noticed how so many of his players don’t make it in the NFL? He’s a fantastic coach with fantastic assistants with a fantastic scheme in a fantastic conference with a school that is the easiest in the country to recruit to. What someone does in college means jack in the pros.
The worst thing you could have ever said in this argument is pointing out what Rams fans think about the trade. That’s a huge LMAO. So is that now the standard for how we judge trades, what the fans of the franchise think the day it happens?
October 28th, 2014 at 11:32 pm
I agree. Cover 2 is not his forte and Rams coughing up a 4 and 6 round picks for a sorry player like other ppl label him tells me a different story. If Barron was that bad no way a team trade for him. Not picks either. He wasn’t a fit going forward.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:33 pm
@Lamarcus,
Do you have inside info on why we cut Revis. Lovie has said he cut him because we could get 3 starters for his salary. We tried to get Revis to take a pay cut. I hated losing Revis (still pissed about it), but don’t make things up. Revis wasn’t cut as a scheme mismatch, he was cut because he makes too much money, period.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:35 pm
There is only one thing I can say about L&L. it appears that their 2 first choices are better than the Rocky Star. Yes GM was a great choice. but in actuality it was not his choice, Detroit forced the pick.
Start over. hire talented scouts. Hire someone that does nothing but scout the practice squads 100% of the time. Build from the inside out.
On D, a middle line backer, a compliment on the line for McCoy. A safety.
Remember when we played a cover 2, we had the middle of the field controlled.
On offense, work from the center out. I want a premier LT. I want a mean offensive line. I am not concerned about a QB for 3/4 more drafts. And for all you Johnny football fanatics, there is a QB on the browns practice squad that is better and if it were not for ownership forcing the Jf DRAFT, the guy on the practice squad would be no. 1 or 2 today.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:45 pm
yup just like we here every week from this ahole they call a coach. about the big picture he sees. or how much better the team was this week. what I want to know is wtf! is this idiot smoking. he is the biggest friggin phony ive ever seen in my life. people im sorry but I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel with him running things period!
October 28th, 2014 at 11:47 pm
sorry meant all we hear!
October 28th, 2014 at 11:50 pm
Regardless of how bad Barron is, we didn’t get better. However, this season is over guys. It would take an act of God for us to even win 5 games this year. Barron wasn’t going to be on the team next year anyway. They were going to upgrade that position. There’s absolutely no doubt about that. Barron was due $2.3M next year. Anyone think he’s worth even half that? At least now we got a couple of picks for him. Now if history continues to repeat itself, we’ll end up blowing the picks anyway, but at least there’s a slight possibility we could do something good with them.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:56 pm
Hawaii you believed and chased that bs. Revis is a man to man , poison to Lovies coach scheme. Revis is once in a lifetime player a worthy of EVERY dime. Once lovie was hired the first thing came to my mind was how Revis was going to fit. Then it was Barron. Next is the Hawk. Come on man, is Barron only player missing assignments?????? Everyone including coach is missing assignments. Get real. To note. Paying Revis is not an issue when a team pays a player like Cutler.
October 28th, 2014 at 11:57 pm
ya revis had to go so they could give this pinhead coach 5.mil a year to f..k this team up worst than it was!
October 29th, 2014 at 12:02 am
Of course next is going to be “Hawk”! You really think that guy is worth 8 mill per? If there was one player that I would bet my bottom dollar that will not be here next year, its hawk. No way he stays, no way… and it has nothing to do with him fitting into any kind of scheme.
October 29th, 2014 at 12:04 am
another great move from the friggin glazers who got the idea from dungy the great! who would never have a ring if not for p. manning. and im willing to bet they asked dungy to come back first. also willing to bet pinhead lovie will never have a superbowl ring never!
October 29th, 2014 at 12:06 am
@Lamarcus,
Believe me, you could not possibly be half as pissed as me about losing Revis. I complained about it before it happened, and I have never stopped. I’m still sick to my stomach about it, and it is still the single worst decision this regime has made (and that is saying a lot). I do, however, do not believe it had anything to do with scheme. Lovie wants to play man to man, and we play a ton of man. He only really goes to the Tampa 2 on third and longs. Revis was in their opinions (and the opinions of so many other GM’s) not worth the money. I completely disagree (as apparently so do you), but I do not believe it was a scheme thing.
And of course Barron isn’t the only one missing assignments. Nobody is saying that. But he is one of the biggest culprits, and he is young and has a salary that is very tradable. Premium picks always have teams that think they can turn them around. They can’t get rid of Michael Johnson or Dashon Goldson. Who else could they get rid of (and remember you have to consider their contract)? They got rid of the most reasonable guy, who was never going to be on the team next year.
October 29th, 2014 at 12:13 am
No not worth it. But in a better scheme yes. NOT for a cover none scheme. It calls for smaller guys who can run not prototype safeties that hit hard. Is McCoy worth all the money is getting? No, in my opinion, but he fits the scheme and u pay for them
October 29th, 2014 at 12:18 am
I feel confident in saying that whatever team the “hawk” goes to next season, he won’t be much of a factor.
October 29th, 2014 at 12:26 am
Hawaii
I was not upset w Revis departure only because they Hired Lovie and his played out system . He wanted his guys to fit the scheme. Price for three starters??? No probably 5. Reality check….. Lovie couldn’t use him correctly like Barron. Couldn’t committ cover 2 sins. Coaches have belief/schemes that they do NOT break. Its basic football Hawaii. Money is not a factor. Not when Patriots got him for just a little bit cheaper. A tad bit cheaper. U think Lovie pays 12 million a year for him? How bout Revis salary wasn’t guaranteed when he was here? They didn’t have pay him the whole amount? I would of keep Revis and fuck off w the cover 2. Lovies own cover scheme is defeating him
October 29th, 2014 at 12:34 am
Hawaii
Patriots had no problem paying Revis 12 mil a year. We had him at 16 mil non guarantee. Again, its a not fit to scheme. I didn’t buy what smoke screens Lovie was selling. And no. I was not mad at all when we cut Revis. I seen it coming when Lovie was hired. And Barron and any one else he couldn’t salvage into his cover no one scheme.
October 29th, 2014 at 12:36 am
Where are the owners when things get bad? We have been bad since the Super bowl win like the Raiders. Teams is cursed.
October 29th, 2014 at 1:41 am
Martin is a good example of why it’s probably not a great idea to draft a RB in the 1st round. As far as Barron, good riddance.
October 29th, 2014 at 2:23 am
I heard a story a long time ago that an evil voodoo priestess put a evil spell on the bucs because of Doug Williams. It seems we are cursed with the MRSA and Freeman last year and now a missing OC.
October 29th, 2014 at 6:54 am
It will take many years to repair the damage that Lovie does to this franchise. Hopefully we only have to suffer one year of Lovie but I’m afraid it may be much longer.
October 29th, 2014 at 10:32 am
Barron did not play well and may not fit this defense. Some of the plays (he didn’t make) showed laziness or lack of caring. The Bucs are not good on either side of the ball. We have two back-up QB’s and a horrible offensive line. The defense has been stomped on most of the year. At least, the GM sees there needs to be changes. The thing that bothered me against Minnesota was the defense fell apart when we needed them most. Then, you decide to throw your first attempt in OT to an inexperienced TE. We have many more weaknesses on this team than strengths. We have two great wide receivers, who don’t get the ball because your backup QB gets no protection. You have one excellent defensive player, a few good ones and the rest needs to be upgraded. So Joe, where did we really get worse? Barron was our second leading tackler and he couldn’t tackle to save his life.