Basement Has Been Bucs’ Home
June 24th, 2014
If Bucs rookie Mike Evans can have an impact, it would help the Bucs get out of the NFC South basement, which has been their home alarming number of times in recent years.
Oh, Joe longs for the days of the old Bucs, when a playoff appearance was all but assured year in and year out. Getting to the playoffs was not a goal, but getting to the Super Bowl very much was.
Lately, just making the playoffs feels like a miracle while landing in the NFC South cellar feels routine. It’s been a brutal 12-year run.
How brutal? Let the “Custodian of Canton,” eye-RAH! Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune explain the ugly facts.
Job 1 for the Bucs is to escape the NFC South basement. They’ve been last 6 times in 12 yrs. Every other division club has been there twice
— Ira Kaufman (@IKaufmanTBO) June 22, 2014
That’s just pathetic. The Bucs officially have been last in six of 12 seasons, which means they had awful records, which means they’ve had plenty of opportunities to build through the draft and, essentially, all they can hang their draft hats on is Gerald McCoy and Lavonte David and Mason Foster and Doug Martin and Mark Barron (who currently is an OK safety drafted way too high).
Yes, Joe agrees, Job 1 is to get out of the basement. To help aid that cause, this year’s draft picks, especially the three guys drafted during the first two days, must make a positive impact.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:10 am
We’ve been the suckaneers for too long! I feel this year is going to be different though….we’ll be better than .500
June 24th, 2014 at 8:11 am
Here’s to hoping baron becomes more along with the entire team.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:12 am
Wow this really puts things in perspective for the post SuperBowl era for the Bucs. Not only have we been subpar but our front office proved to be unable to develop a competitive team.
Sure we can hindsight and look at the hiring of Schiano and Raheem but the common denominator was always Dominik. I don’t want to make it about him but it’s hard not to.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:19 am
When Mark Dominik, in his first major move as GM, traded up to reach for JFro, the writing was on the wall.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:21 am
Hard to believe given the ingenuousness of the “rock star”.
A fleecing machine that dude was.
Really enjoyed watching the no fools gold lasting contenders play.
Thankfully, all is well now with Lovie.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:27 am
Both Barron and Morris Claiborne with Dallas have been under-performing duds, so far. But this should be the year for our safety to learn and step it up a notch.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:28 am
Geez, how could they manage that when they had a “rockstar” GM for a lot of those years?
June 24th, 2014 at 8:30 am
Blame it on Dominik all you want but Gruden/Allen fielded their fair share of awful squads. Being a Bucs fan from the early days gives you a thick skin and poor expectations. Woe is a Bucs life…
June 24th, 2014 at 8:35 am
All of this began when Malcolm Glazers sons took over.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:37 am
Yet you continually called our great GM a rockstar. It’s amazing that most of names you mentioned got here when Schiano was here so Dominik doesn’t really get credit for those and McCoy was a no brainer. Unfortunately the Glazers need to take some responsibility for hiring these guys that were clueless in their evaluating.
How many are longing for the Gruden era now? I know I am. We have been irrelevant since he’s been gone. Here’s hoping Lovie is finally the answer.
It seems that Malcolm knew football a whole lot better than his sons. These boys need a success in a big way. That’s where the true bad evaluating has taken place in both GM and coaches.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:48 am
*REPOST
LUVMYBUCS Says:
October 1st, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Not a Propagandists, simply trying to give an impartial examinations of the facts of the matter.
Notes:
Things haven’t been the same since Malcolm Glazer’s stroke in 2006.
Bruce Allen (After Rich Mckay’s salary cap purgator) left the organization with 44mil to spend in 2009.
5yrs later and we QUALITY DEBT not QUALITY DEPTH
June 24th, 2014 at 8:56 am
Dom started w/ $44million in cap space-Then there was Black Monday (When he cut all the veterans) Pushing the available cap space well above $60 mill..
He’s a BUCS fan, so he’s part of the family regardless. I’m just happy to see him doing his thing on ESPN….. not One Buc.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:58 am
if the Panther did not tank it for a high draft pick in 2010, and Atlanta did the same last year. Mark Dominick’s team would have finished last 5 years straight!!!
4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, and 3rd in the division,,,,,, that is unacceptable!!!!
June 24th, 2014 at 9:48 am
Gruden won the Division in 2005, and 2007. Winning seasons three of this last four years.
Can you imagine the crowing if the rock’s team had done that?
Insufferable!
June 24th, 2014 at 9:49 am
Well, at least they’re being consistent. We’re the New England Patriots of basement domination.
June 24th, 2014 at 9:52 am
It’s not all Dominik by the way. The roster he inherited was getting old and meager. He just finished it off by ruining too many drafts. Raheem had a hand in it, and now Schiano.
When you screw up that much, you have to blame more than one man. The whole organization failed. From the team facilities people (MRSA outbreak) to the trainer – how many hamstring tweaks happened in a short time the last couple of years?
Even the guy who takes care of the field has had it in rotten shape on game day a couple of times. And that NEVER used to happen.
June 24th, 2014 at 10:08 am
Oh those days when Dungy had a Hall of Fame Defense and couldn’t get out of the first round, year after year after year.
June 24th, 2014 at 10:10 am
doooommmiiiNNNNIIIIIKKKK!!!!!!
June 24th, 2014 at 10:24 am
Please give me the Dungy era again!
Pretty please.
June 24th, 2014 at 10:27 am
Louis Friend
“When you screw up that much, you have to blame more than one man.”
Detroit Lions fans say hog wash…..If Matt Millen can do it, any ONE man can!
June 24th, 2014 at 10:30 am
While Dungy and Gruden eras were great, I’m just hoping for a kick a$$ Lovie Era!
June 24th, 2014 at 10:34 am
Damn straight Oar!
June 24th, 2014 at 11:26 am
Finishing tied for last place sucks too.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:04 pm
What the heck are we gonna do without a 7-10 game losing streak?
June 24th, 2014 at 12:06 pm
Wow the part that I’m digesting of the last place 6 out of 12 years isn’t the fact but rather that means the Bucs finished in last place 3 of the years Gruden coached!? 2 years under Rah, 1 year under Schiano leaves 3 years under Gru. I didn’t take the time to fact check that, but damn I don’t remember 3 last place finishes in Gruden’s 7 years? That’s a shocker
June 24th, 2014 at 12:13 pm
@ToesOnTheLine
Technically both years with Schiano were last place. They tied for last place in 2012. 2 years under Gruden in the last 10 – 2006 and 2004.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:14 pm
Gruden only finished last in the division in
2004
2006
Rah
2009
2011
Schiano
2012 ( tied for last ) had higher draft pick due to tie-breakers
June 24th, 2014 at 12:15 pm
ahhh tied for last this past year with atlanta ( atlanta had tie-breaker for higher draft pick.)
June 24th, 2014 at 12:16 pm
@OAR – Detroit has been screwed up since President Eisenhower was in office and Bobby Layne was their QB. They had some stand alone good years sprinkled into the bad ones, but really you’ve got to go back to the good old days of the 50’s to find any excellence in that franchise.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:31 pm
We haven’t had a coach since Jon Gruden left so how could you expect anything else. Firing Gruden was one of the biggest mistakes in Bucs history. And that’s saying something considering our history.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
^ Wrong. Gruden and Allen left the roster with very little talent… and provided mediocre results on the field.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:38 pm
I don’t understand the Gruden nostalgia. He wasn’t that good. The Superbowl year was good. Every year after that was a frustrating mess, even the 11-5 year (which was smoke and mirrors). Worst draft results of any coach we’ve ever had. Win one SB and people are willing to tolerate mediocrity forever??? I don’t get it. Yeah, he was better than Rah and Schiano, but if that’s all you’ve got, it’s not much…
June 24th, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Orca is wrong
Gruden and Allen went 9-7 the last 2 years, 2007 they were resting starters as they had a playoff birth locked up,
and 2008 they collapsed the last 4 games, but more to do with the defensive coach announcing he is leaving, taking recruiting trips during the week, leaving Rah as intern Defensive Coach
June 24th, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Gru
(The Good)
2002 (39 age) 12-4 (.750) *Super Bowl (NFC South Division Champ)
2005 (42 age) 11-5 (.688) Lost 1st round of playoffs (NFC South Division Champ)
2007 (44 age) 9-7 (.563) Lost 1st round of playoffs (NFC South Division Champ)
2008 (45 age) 9-7 (.563) Monte’s announcement/Defense collapses (3rd place)
(The Bad)
2003 (40 age) 7-9 (.438) Super Bowl Hangover (NFC South 3th place)
2004 (41 age) 5-11 (.313) (NFC South 4th place)
2006 (43 age) 4-12 (.250) (NFC South 3th place)
Note:
2003-Gruden vs Johnson (illustrated by a video clip of him yelling at Gruden on the sidelines) led to his de-activation for the final 7 games of the 2003 season- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-a9BhLIpwM
2006-Chris Simms Spleen/ 6th round draft pick (194th overall) Bruce Gradkowski starts 11 games (3-8 as starter).
June 24th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Louis
“They had some stand alone good years sprinkled into the bad ones”
Really? 2-14, 3-13, 5-11, 6-10, 5-11, 3-13, 7-9, 0-16, where do you see any “stand alone good years” under Millen?….Missed my point I guess? My point is that one man, Matt Millen, destroyed that team for years! Head Coaches and players came and went, but he was the constant element of failure there. BTW I was just talking about the Millen years.
So again, I say yes one man can destroy/set back a franchise for years!
June 24th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
(Summer 2008)-ESPN is reporting that the Packers have been in “intense” negotiations with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and a deal could happen by Wednesday.
Sources from a Tampa Bay newspaper advised that the Packers are very close to sending their former franchise quarterback to the Bucs for a package that may include a veteran QB and some type of compensation. It is rumored that it would include draft picks and the Bucs reworking Brett Favre’s contract.
Woulda-Coulda shoulda…smh
June 24th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
The_Buc_Realist Says:
June 24th, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Which part is wrong: (a) the fact that Gru/Allen were terrible drafters and personnel evaluators, leaving the roster barren, or (b) the on-field results were mediocre, or (c) Bucs fans gave Gruden too much rope because he won a SB?
I think (a) is indisputable. I also think (b) is pretty accurate, depending on how you define mediocre (yes, 9-7 is mediocre)… I really believe that the Gruden nostalgia is rooted in how awful his successors have been.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:58 pm
After the SB year, Gruden’s record was a combined 45-51… and ZERO playoff wins. And even those playoff appearances were with teams that weren’t very good. The 11-5 team played like a 5-11 team and had some sort of voodoo to get to that record.
Even with the SB year, the combined regular season record was 57-55 — BARELY over .500.
How is Gruden’s record not mediocre?
June 24th, 2014 at 1:07 pm
“Worst draft results of any coach we’ve ever had.”
Hmm …obviously you missed the Raheem drafts.
June 24th, 2014 at 1:12 pm
After compiling a 40–28 win-loss record (including playoffs) in four seasons with the Raiders, Gruden replaced the fired Tony Dungy as head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002
_via a high-stakes trade that included Tampa Bay’s
• 2002 first-round draft picks
• 2003 first-round draft picks,
• 2002 second-round draft picks
• 2004 second-round draft picks
+$8 million in cash
Would trade all of that and more for a Super Bowl ring any day!
June 24th, 2014 at 1:15 pm
Gruden-Won & Lost w/ scraps-Its not like he had a bunch of premium draft picks and cash space.
June 24th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Typical ingrate buc fans, railing on the only two guys in our 40 year history who won more games than they lost in their tenure here.
All Dungy did was put together one of the best defensive runs in league history.
Gru the Super Bowl, plus two additional Division Titles.
Precisely the whinny attitude that got them both fired………..
Some folks just never learn.
I’m sure we will hear the same mantra from the brain dead if Lovie wins the Division, but loses a close game in the first round.
SMH.
June 24th, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Lance Nimmo, Austin King, Travis Stephens, Marquise Hill, The Rocket Lockett (don’t remember his first name), 2nd rounder on Piscitelli, Larry Brackins, Michael Clayton, Gaines Adams, an offensive guard in round 1, a clear character problem CB in round 1, Cadillac Williams… these were all terrible picks. All those drafts and those two clowns couldn’t find a couple of decent starters?
I know some of you think Joseph and Williams were studs…but you’re wrong. You take an OG in round 1 he had damn sure better be All-Pro every year… he made one stinking Pro Bowl, he just wasn’t that good. Williams… a RB… that couldn’t catch to save his life… had three great games to start his career and was a complete dud after that. Again, a RB at #5 and not even a special one at that!
Gruden and Allen was beyond abysmal when it came to drafting. Now, say what you want about Gruden and drafting, the fact is that he was horrible, but that man could coach that below mediocre talent and get some decent results. That 11-5 team was one of the top defensive teams in the league with next to nothing talent-wise. Their front 7 was terrible (except Brooks). Their offense was led by Brian Griese and then Chris Simms… they simply were not good but Gruden schemed and coached his way to 11 wins and a theft of a loss in the playoffs to the Redskins (there were 3 terribly blown calls there-the Chris Simms forced fumble and recovery of LaVar Arrington after his INT, the sack fumble that was recovered by Barber and would’ve been a TD was initially called incomplete but after review it was changed to a sack, down at the spot, and then the Cadillac Williams fumble he lost and the player that recovered it was underneath Williams and then ran for a score (or near score, don’t remember) even though it is physically impossible to recover a ball with somebody on top of you and not be ruled down by contact.
That game shouldn’t have been close if the refs don’t blow those three plays. Gruden could coach… he was just a terrible and moronic talent evaluator. Remember him letting Thomas Jones go for one year less and $1 million less money for what he signed Charlie Garner for? Ugh!!!
June 24th, 2014 at 1:39 pm
@OAR
I got your point about ‘one man’, but don’t infer Detroit had much to begin with. They didn’t prior to Millen – they didn’t during Millen (his doing), and they’re at most paper tigers now (Mayhew’s doing). Destroyed them? No, he just took a crap on top of an already festering dung heap. Dominik is comparable only in that regard. The Bucs were on their way to the dumpster in 2008, Dominik did little to stop it when he took over.
Got my point?
June 24th, 2014 at 1:42 pm
Yeah I remember he wanted to draft Calvin Johnson / Adrian Peterson over Gaines Adams. Thank God that didn’t happen
June 24th, 2014 at 1:43 pm
OBVIOUSLY ,JOES , YOU WEREN’T HERE FOR THE REAL OLD BUCS. WHAT WE HAVE NOW AND HAVE HAD OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IS WHAT THE BUCS USED TO BE , NOT THAT 5 OR 6 YEAR SPURT WITH WINNING RECORDS AND PLAYOFFS. KNOW THE HISTORY AND YOU’LL REALIZE THIS IS MORE HOME TO MED THAN THOSE WINNING TEAMS. I WISH IT WERE DIFFERENT , BUT AT LEAST WE ALWAYS HAVE HOPE.
Joe knows the history and the pre-Dungy, post-Doug Williams pain. –Joe
June 24th, 2014 at 1:54 pm
Funny, I remember out of ten seasons prior to Millen they had seven winning seasons (including 6 in playoffs).
And sorry, but coming off two back-to-back 9-7 seasons isn’t headed to the dumpster. Dominik took us there.
June 24th, 2014 at 1:56 pm
The rock star
4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th in the division!
That is so painful to look at.
June 24th, 2014 at 2:01 pm
I’m going to assume LUVMYBUCS’s info is correct which means only one last place finish under Gruden, two under Rah, and one under Schiano (the standings show Tampa finishing 3rd last year, there is no tied for last). This means 4 out of last 12 years were last place finishes. Not great but not as bad as 6 out of 12
June 24th, 2014 at 2:30 pm
In the twelve years prior to Dungy the bucs finished last in their division ten times.
They had finished last seven consecutive years before Tony took over.
In the next twelve years the combined Dungy/Gru record was two last place finish, four Division Titles, seven playoff appearances, and a Super Bowl Championship.
Those guys were such morons.
June 24th, 2014 at 2:36 pm
LUVMYBUCS Says:
December 26th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
IMO-Dungy did Extraordinary Job molding the teams Culture. But lets not forget most of the intrical parts of a defense were already here. Due in Most Part to Sam Wyche & Rich Mckay.
*People are quick to forget, that we won more than -6 FREAKIN GAMES for the FOR THE 1ST TIME in 14 years in 95′. After winning five of its first seven games, we lost seven of its last nine games (7-9). He lift the team in faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrr better shape, then what it was-when he 1st arrived.
Gruden took us to the next level though.
June 24th, 2014 at 2:43 pm
Yeah Sam Wyche was on the edge of creating one of the best defenses in NFL history.
Totally would have happened without Tony.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:06 pm
^ Wrong. Dungy turned around the entire culture of the organization and MADE that team winners.
As for the Gruden excuse makers who say he had nothing to work with… Well, I’ll give you the fact that they lost #1 and #2 picks for his first 2 years… But what happened after that? Horrible drafting and continuing to rely on washed up backup quality veteran free agents just to achieve 9-7. As a game day and strategy coach, I’ll take Gruden, but as an evaluator and developer of talent, he’s among the worst in recent league history. If Gruden had been the HC and there had been a strong GM working the drafts and free agency, Gruden might still be the coach… Even though a lot of the players thought he was a two-faced dick.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:09 pm
Gruden, Greatest coach in Buccaneers history. Period. Dungy 2nd. P.Manning elevated Dungy’s legacy. Smith could be the greatest, we’ll find out. I hope so. If Mike Cannon is , as I believe, a Tom Brady
then Smith will be and Bucs will be Dynasty.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
^^ Saying “Period” doesn’t make it so.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:24 pm
Amazingly, the horrible evaluator of talent won two Division Titles and three winning seasons over his last four years here.
Please bring back that horror…..
June 24th, 2014 at 3:49 pm
We’ve got a better situation now.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:50 pm
‘Saying “Period” doesn’t make it so.”
I know two words that make it so….Super Bowl!
June 24th, 2014 at 3:51 pm
Like Rodney Dangerfield says, we just don’t get no respect I tell ya.
June 24th, 2014 at 4:03 pm
Sorry, one SB and 6 years of mediocrity isn’t good enough. How long until the SB love affair ends? Yes, I repeat, he was better than his 2 immediate successors. So? The organization, the personnel in general, was all going to sh*t under Chucky. They were going to need to rebuild and invest in developing young players, which is something that Gruden never wanted to do. I mean, he’s supposedly a QB guru who never developed a young QB!!! WTF? He didn’t even draft one, except for Josh Johnson. Terrible personnel evaluator, overrated coach.
If, in your job doing whatever you do, you have one great year followed by six years of mediocrity with no signs of improvement or development, wouldn’t you expect your job security to be tenuous? Gruden had more than enough time to load that team back up, but didn’t. Sorry. He deserved to go. You can’t survive on the fumes of a SB forever.
June 24th, 2014 at 4:14 pm
Thank you.
June 24th, 2014 at 4:36 pm
“Yes, I repeat, he was better than his 2 immediate successors.’
Ha! He was better than his immediate predecessors too!
“You can’t survive on the fumes of a SB forever.”
Ask the other 14 other teams without one what they think about that.
June 24th, 2014 at 4:48 pm
^^ Frankly, I’d rather have a team that was highly competitive year in and year out, always a threat in the playoffs, to one that wins one SB and craps the bed for the next 6 years. The SB was great, but I don’t know if it was worth 6 years of mediocre football afterwards… not counting the crap years that followed because of the dearth of talent left behind when he departed.
June 24th, 2014 at 6:00 pm
It was great to see Eric give Sam Wyche some credit. Somehow, he is always forgotten, when talking about the Bucs.
People always say that all Gruden did was take Tony Dungy’s team to the Super Bowl, but it can be argued that all Dungy did was take Sam Wyche’s team to the playoffs.
June 24th, 2014 at 6:09 pm
The super bowl love affair lasts the rest of my life.
For me anyhow.
June 24th, 2014 at 6:25 pm
Orca has flown off the deep end, next he will tell us that he would not want to win the lottery, But just be close every year.
June 24th, 2014 at 10:36 pm
Hey Dallasbuc
Woe is a Bucs life…
That’s what Rum is for.
June 25th, 2014 at 9:06 am
I still think Gruden took Dungy’s team to the SB. Sorry. All Gruden did was tweek the offense. After the SB all he signed were old guys. Still pisses me off. And he didn’t play Allstott enough. Won’t ever get over that.
June 25th, 2014 at 9:52 am
Yea, all Gruden did was bring in 28 new players (more than 50% of the roster) and give us an offense that was accountable!!
Why couldn’t Dungy take us to the Super Bowl with “his” team?
Another question to ponder is, do you think Steve Marucci or Marvin Lewis would have taken us (hell even if it was Dungy’s team) to the Super Bowl? One of those two coaches were who Rich McKay was going to hire.