“They’ll All Flourish Now”
February 17th, 2014
Warren Sapp was his usual opinionated self during Super Bowl festivities. Joe got a chance to sit down with Sapp in frozen Newark to talk about a variety of topics. Joe’s already shared Sapp’s Hall of Fame takes, changed Xs-and-Os view of defense, and Sapp’s thumbs-down on Mike Glennon.
Today, Joe is sharing a Sapp take on the Buccaneers’ pass rush.
Sapp was adamant that Greg Schiano’s defense was a disaster and the Bucs’ current defensive ends will improve the minute they arrive for the 2014 season in April.
JoeBucsFan.com: On a conceptual level, as well as Gerald McCoy has played as a 3-technique and as much as you’ve praised him, if the guys on the edge of him aren’t getting sacks and pressuring quarterbacks, does that just say they’re not good enough?
Warren Sapp: No. The system wasn’t good enough. The system didn’t match what they were doing. Gerald McCoy in spite of what they were calling on defense. The system is there now. They’ll all flourish now.
Joe: What do you expect from Lovie and (Joe got cut off)?
Sapp: They’ll all flourish now. All of us played well, Simeon Rice, Greg Spires. All of us played well. All of us. It had to be a system that says, ‘I’m going to trust everyone around me.’ And that’s what they’ll have with Lovie. Thank God.
Sapp absolutely would not talk specifics about Adrian Clayborn, DaQuan Bowers and friends. Sapp’s mindset was that things were so mangled and bungled by Schiano along the defensive line that there’s nothing to say.
Joe sure hopes Sapp is right, though Joe’s hardly confident in the Bucs’ current crop of defensive ends.
Lovie will deliver his initial verdict soon after the free agency bell rings on March 11. How stunning it would be if the Bucs did not add an established and dangerous defensive end.
February 17th, 2014 at 12:09 pm
Interesting take. No way that same concept could be applied to the offense though. I mean, we had a defensive minded coach whose defense was so bad that we can’t even talk about the merits of the players playing in it and that same defensive head coach had a heavy hand in the offense but there’s no way that the program they were running on offense was bad. And without a GMC on offense that could play at a high level despite the circumstances it’s astonishing that the offense couldn’t pull it together. Must be the rookie QB who was doing whatever the coach said because he was a rookie that was given a chance to start in the NFL and he didn’t have enough sway yet to tell the coaching staff that he wasn’t going to do what he was told. Clearly it was simply a lack of talent
February 17th, 2014 at 12:09 pm
Adrian Clayborn had a very nice season, don’t see why people hate him so much.
Bowers was the biggest bust and I am glad we got Ghoslton, the light really came on at the end of the season.
I believe in what Sapp is saying, the system for the D-linemen was terrible. Now that they will be free to rush the passer, they should look a lot better. That and having a real D-linemen coach that will teach them how to rush the passer.
I know Lovie will sign a vet or 2 on the D-line to show the young guys the ropes and get them better. Always good to have fresh bodies rushing the passer.
I am really hoping we draft Khalil Mack, guy is a monster. Reminds me of Demarcus Ware, just not as big. He wouldn’t play OLB, we would draft him to be a DE. He is physical, has a great burst, and rarely gets blocked 1 on 1.
February 17th, 2014 at 12:11 pm
I don’t agree that “Lovie will deliver his initial verdict soon after the free agency bell rings on March 11.”
I don’t expect them to sign guys right out of the chute this year. The initial stage is always the higher priced guys. The market settles down after a week or two. Guys drop their salary expectations. Then the shopping begins. If Jared Allen goes out in the first few days of FA and manages to wrangle stupid money out of some desperate team, let him.
February 17th, 2014 at 12:31 pm
Jared Allen and of course Clowney are the answers.
February 17th, 2014 at 12:58 pm
I think we only need to add 1 DE through FA cause I have a feeling William Gholston will be a beast for us. Jared Allen would be perfect.
February 17th, 2014 at 1:01 pm
Then we could use more money in FA and draft picks to go OL WR and TE
February 17th, 2014 at 1:06 pm
Can’t wait to get the ball rolling. Lovie will have that defense on fire.
February 17th, 2014 at 1:08 pm
What’s the deal with Steven Means? Is he developing? If he’s not an edge rusher could he compete for SAM LB? or is he to heavy? I think he’s around 260 lbs.
February 17th, 2014 at 2:13 pm
Sapp should know, but I question some of this. First, Schiano coached up and got a lot out of Ghoslton and Spence. And he raised the level of play for the D as well. But, my biggest complaint about Schiano was he was ridiculously set in his ways and didn’t adjust to the talent of the players he had – i.e. his schemes sucked. He also was the one who said great things were coming from Bowers this past year – and even then, I don’t think he used him at the end of the year like he should have (barely played).
But Lovie definitely knows what he is doing. No question we should see an improvement. And as good as the D played at times, that is exciting.
February 17th, 2014 at 2:29 pm
@Patrick in VA Says:
“…No way that same concept could be applied to the offense though.”
I think most, if not all of us, think Schiano’s offensive schemes were terrible; no one said that. Maybe thats why there are no articles on Schiano’s offensive failings is bc it is assumed to be a given. IMO, MG8 just didn’t shine, didn’t raise the level of play at all.
Using your comparison, GMC definitely raised the level of play.
Patrick in VA Says: “…Must be the rookie QB who was doing whatever the coach said…”
So, is what you are saying that if VJ or another WR is open, he wouldn’t throw to them and threw the check down instead bc Schiano told him to?
I do think maybe MG8 played very conservative bc it was drilled into his head. Under Tedford, hopefully that will improve. But from what I saw of MG8, his talent level is not that high; he looks like a very good backup QB who was drafted in the 3rd rd.
February 17th, 2014 at 2:32 pm
scheme muddled the evaluation of so many players over the last 2 coaching regime, i really feel like everyone deserves a second look. how do you evaluate a sports car when you’re driving it down a flooded south tampa street?
February 17th, 2014 at 2:34 pm
Sapp is fat.
February 17th, 2014 at 2:46 pm
Left DE & Right DE should be addressed in free agency. Current DE’s are average, good for depth but not true starters. We need bonafide pass rushers and edge setters. I do like Golston
February 17th, 2014 at 2:55 pm
draft watkins or mack!!!!!!!!!!
February 17th, 2014 at 3:05 pm
But Joe is all in when he says Glennon is not the guy GM Sapp says a lot and then he back tracks see the DE from NY who was just elected to the Hall of Fame I say let the coaches work with the guys and cream will rise and crap will sink!
February 17th, 2014 at 3:25 pm
@Harry – the job of coaches is to put players in the proper situations and give them the opportunity to shine. If it’s widely understood that schiano did a poor job then why is it so hard to understand why glennon didn’t shine when he wasn’t given an opportunity to. I understand that it’s frustrating that he missed open receivers sometimes, like a rookie is wont to do, but if his first look is the conservative one by design then is it unbelievable that he would miss a streaking receiver?
February 17th, 2014 at 3:41 pm
@Patrick – OR ANY MGM:
I would like someone who is pro MG8 to explain to me what plan B is for getting a franchise QB if MG8 fails?
FA? Never good, at least not long term. As an example, this year Vick is the best, not much of an upgrade, if at all.
Drafting one in later rounds? Almost never going to happen; total crap shoot. Even the Seattle GM said the same thing – they got lucky.
High draft pick? That will likely be gone after this year if Lovie performs as expected. This is the BEST way to get one, but if we don’t do it this year, then what?
February 17th, 2014 at 4:27 pm
Patrick: Yes, the offensive system was flawed in many ways. No doubt about that, and Glennon could be better this year simply with a better system. However, what is being stated is that the DEs will be better under Lovie’s system by default because A) it’s a better system and B) GMC is an all pro player at the key DL position in that system. The difference is Glennon hasn’t shown to be anywhere near an all-pro player at QB in any system. GMC succeeded in a poor system despite the system. Glennon was unimpressive due to the system. He did not overcome the system to be successful, in fact he regressed the minute they returned to the original system. When he first started, they had him throw a lot, as if he was a seasoned veteran, that didn’t work. Then they changed the system slightly, creating more checkdowns, RB routes, used the TE more (something the former staff loathed to do) and it benefited Glennon and we began to see Wright shine. After a couple “rookie system games”, they again went back to the original offense and Glennon regressed.
The more appropriate analogy would be that Glennon should improve with a better offensive system if a guy like VJ (who succeeded despite the system) continues to elevate Glennon… (as in Gholston should be even better with GMC and a better system). Glennon is closer to Gholston. Both showed flashes of something decent, but couldn’t overcome a poor system. With an all pro player assisting them, they can be decent. Not necessarily great, but better than last year.
February 17th, 2014 at 4:29 pm
@Harry – I think that’s the disconnect between the two sides. You’ve drank the kool-aid and believe that if you don’t have a “franchise” qb then there’s no point in taking the field. It’s important that we have a qb that can perform and having a great one would be awesome but I also know that there are plenty of teams that don’t have franchise qbs (despite what their getting paid) and they’re doing well. Flacco is serviceable, Dalton is questionable, Eli is serviceable sometimes, rg3 is a one trick pony, Cutler is erratic and a pain, Ryan had shown himself to only be as good as the players around him. These guys are “franchise” qbs and are eating up tons of cap space but they’re not great. Some aren’t that good. If you have a truly amazing qb then that’s a big difference but if they’re not great qbs (I’ll save you the suspense, these bozos coming in this year aren’t great) then they’re not going to move the needle that much. They need to be able to do their job but I’ll take a complete team like Seattle over Dallas and their over paid qb with little else any day
February 17th, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Hope Sapp is right. Based on past results Lovie should do a very good job getting players to buy in and play well (I’m not familiar with Frazier’s defenses other than when he was a HC the Vikings D’s always seemed mediocre overall). That is just an opinion based on the few Vikings games I’ve seen during that time as well as their record most of those years, so maybe the stats say otherwise (too lazy to check though)?
February 17th, 2014 at 4:38 pm
As to the DEs being better this year with a better system and GMC at 3-tech…. I tend to agree, simply because I think they will use less stunting and focus more on one gap assignments where it doesn’t take a player crossing 2 or 3 gaps to get to his assigned gap. As to which DEs should see better play, I think Clayborn, Gholston AND Bowers should be improved. There’s a lot being said about Bowers failure, but it was obvious in preseason last year that Bowers was out playing T’eo-Nesheim but was in the coaches dog house and T’eo got the start. Even then, the first few games of the season, Bowers limited opportunities still looked better than T’eo and he still saw limited opportunities. As the season progressed, instead of benching T’eo and inserting Bowers while giving Gholston more opportunity, they simply cut Bowers opportunities and gave Gholston more. Obviously, Bowers was in Schiano’s dog house still. When Gholston took over ahead of Bowers, he did well. And he (Gholston) should get opportunity this year, but Bowers was not invisible because he wasn’t getting pressure on the QB or making tackles, he was invisible because of something between him and the coaches. I also believe there was a report that Bowers was suffering from a minor injury a decent part of the season. Remember GMC’s first two years on IR? Everyone called him a bust? Don’t be shocked if Bowers… in a new system, next to GMC, fully healthy… steps up and shocks a few people. I’m not saying it IS going to happen, but have to put it out there that Gholston may have some pretty stiff competition for that starting gig and it may not come in the form of a FA or draft pick.
February 17th, 2014 at 4:50 pm
@Patrick in VA Says:
“… You’ve drank the kool-aid and believe that if you don’t have a “franchise” qb then there’s no point in taking the field…”
First my friend, let me point out you ignored my question. If MG8 is not better than last year, or is just marinally better, “What is Plan B to replace him?” Is there not an answer to this riddle?
Second, when I watch MG8 play, then listen to you talk him up, I know who is drinking the Kool-aid, lol. Of ALL the playoff teams this year, ONLY two teams had QBs that were NOT ranked in the top 10. Those two are (drumroll…), Brady and Luck (guess they had off years).
Let me be very clear, I do NOT think we need Payton or Brady; it is very much a team game. But we definitely need more than a QB who is ranked in the bottom 25% of starting QBs and the QB who led the Bucs to the worst offense in the entire NFL. I mean really, are you expecting him to change that much bc of a new coach (who has never coached in the NFL)? Really?
Now back to my original question… If, as it appears, there is not a viable Plan B, why not draft a Teddy/Johnny to compete with Glennon? If he is so good, lets see who wins out.
February 17th, 2014 at 4:52 pm
again, freaking post has not made it out of the JBF filters, very aggravating…
one on its way to you Patrick…
February 17th, 2014 at 4:54 pm
@Harry – standing by. However, nearly home from work so my next fruitless attempt to recalibrate your thinking might be delayed
February 17th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Patrick: I’ll agree with you completely that Romo is overpaid and highly over-rated. Funny thing about Seattle though, is that they drafted a QB with a 1st round grade that fell due to size and filled the team around him with moderately priced FAs. Last year they added Percy Harvin via trade (the speed WR everyone is clamoring for), Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril (that improved DL/pass rush everyone is screaming to draft high) and a couple DBs for depth. Without a first round pick (Percy Harvin trade), they drafted DL, OL, TE, and role players. Seattle drafted a QB (amazingly for them in the 3rd round, most teams don’t get that lucky) and filled their holes in FA and trade and mid to late draft. If we want to compare, we need to draft a ‘better’ QB (I’m not asking for a Brady or Manning) and find ways to fill the other areas. That would be following the Seahawks model for success… not drafting Jake Matthews or Clowney or Watkins.
We could go through a long list, but to make a point…. Did the drafting of speedy Tavon Austin and the addition of Jake Long in FA suddenly make the Rams and Sam Bradford Super Bowl contenders? There’s a team that already has a pass rush too. Did adding Ziggy Ansah to an already decent Lions DL propel them to the SB last year (and they have an OK QB in Stafford). What I’m getting at is you can plug all the holes you want, some will work out, some won’t… at any position. But the one hole that has to be filled more than any other is QB. Otherwise, the slot WR, the TE, the OL, the DL, etc. will not be able to change the game the way they should. Get the QB, fill the rest with whatever you can. There are at least 3 QBs in this draft that are better prospects (not saying better, but they do project better to the NFL with better skill-sets) than any QB taken last year. Last year was a horrible draft for QBs. Some are saying there’s no Luck in this year’s draft, well there was no Bridgewater or Manziel in last year’s draft, so why did we take one then?
February 17th, 2014 at 5:10 pm
Sapp knows what he is talking about and would make a great DL coach if our present DL coach becomes a DC somewhere else after developing Gholston and Bowers into beasts at DL this year. As to Glennon, both Joe and Sapp are correct and Tedford will be cut next year if he is foolish enough to hang his career on sack magnet Glennon. We have to use our first pick on a QB if any of the top four drop to us, but if not take Watkins and then Garappolo in the second round and then let them compete fairly with Glennon in preseason, which will result in Glennon being the backup this year where he belongs. He is throwing from his upper body and is only accurate right down the middle on long throws, he never throws anticipating a WR coming open, he has to see them open before he throws which often is then late. And he has no escapability to keep plays alive and in the fourth quarter he crumbles under pressure and never can bring us back for a win. He chokes–and Tedford won’t be able to make him a great QB in a million years!
February 17th, 2014 at 5:20 pm
@Joe, having the same problem with postings. No bad words, no referencing other websites, but its been a half an hour the my last post was swallowed by the JBF filters. Someone else told me it does that if you use certain names, like Brad or Brady. Why? Help please, it is aggravating.
February 17th, 2014 at 5:23 pm
LOL, too funny, wrote to Joe to complain about his web filters. Told him someone told me if you write “B-rad” or “B-rady” (except I wrote them out the normal way), the filters swallow your post. Guess what… NO Post
February 17th, 2014 at 5:30 pm
I agree with Sapp. The talent in the NFL is separated by coaching.
Schiano would’ve gone 6-10 with Seattle’s roster.
February 17th, 2014 at 5:52 pm
^^^
I’d reverse that number and say 10-6. Quite simply he did better than 6-10 in his first year with the Bucs roster. Was he as good a HC as Pete Carroll during his Seattle tenure, nope. Was he as bad as a lot of bitter Bucs fans like to believe…I don’t think so anyway.
February 17th, 2014 at 5:54 pm
@Harry – it’s funny that Brady would be a filter but the racist filth that is tossed around on here goes unchecked. Let’s get some priorities
February 17th, 2014 at 6:05 pm
@Bucsfan4lyf
AC is a good player how had a 7 sack season as a rookie before the stunt machine came in and took over our defense basically saying these guys including gerald mccoy arent good enough to get pressure without constant blitzing and stunting!!!
look no further than our best defensive lineman….how long did it take him to realize how to play….towards the end of the season then he got hurt…clowney is going to be have to be taught also how to play in the nfl. no his talent isnt a question but how to use it still has to be realized and what we dont know is what his learning curve will be….everybody from the start of training camp will have to earn their place on the roster, every single starter on offense except our wideouts and running backs clowney is still an unknown but i wont complain if we draft him but every draft we sit here and marvel over our picks…how many have come in instantly and tore up the league….not enough to keep us from having so many high draft picks since winning the superbowl….im ready to be last to draft in the first round
February 17th, 2014 at 7:21 pm
@Harry – I had a post fall into the b-rady abyss as well. I think what we’ve learned from this is that people posting racist comments is no big deal and they deserve to have a voice but say something about a qb for another team and you better tread lightly
February 17th, 2014 at 7:45 pm
@Patrick in VA Says:
“…people posting racist comments is no big deal and they deserve to have a voice but say something about a qb for another team and you better tread lightly…”
Apparently. Even when I wrote him I mentioned B-radly and it would not post. But, to tag on to your point, he quickly jumped on my butt the other day when he (incorrectly) thought I was accusing him of Glennon bashing. But 3 hours later, nothing on this. Annoying.
If its not rectified tomorrow, I will re-write it. Have a good night Patrick, and don’t drink too much Kool-aid tonight so you are coherent tomorrow.
February 17th, 2014 at 8:09 pm
Barry Says:
February 17th, 2014 at 2:34 pm
Sapp is fat.
YES, and PHONEY!!
February 17th, 2014 at 8:55 pm
barry,joe dunn,sapp still a hof.
February 17th, 2014 at 9:05 pm
Wonder what big Buccaneer announcement Sapp will be making tomorrow? Anybody know?
February 17th, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Mumbles, where did u hear that Sapp was making an announcement tomorrow?
February 17th, 2014 at 10:34 pm
HOF yes…….evaluator of talent?? Not quite yet
Coaching prospect?? Not so fast there, either.
February 17th, 2014 at 11:17 pm
How many times are you going to give us this same opinion from the same source? Gonna ad some new aspect while rehashing the part about Glennon? You are a piece of – – – -!!!!
February 18th, 2014 at 1:13 am
Harry:
Not sure. Either you are using an IP address that was blacklisted at one time or Joe’s spam filter doesn’t like where your messages are coming from. Do you work for BSPN?
February 18th, 2014 at 5:31 am
@Idaho – wow, that escalated quickly. Let’s tone that down a bit. There’s no reason for that. For one you discredit anything you may have said that had any merit when you throw out insults like that and secondly, is it really that serious man? George Zimmerman is a piece of —-, pedophiles are pieces of —-, someone using a particular source for forming an opinion or stating a case about a qb pales in comparison. Let’s leave the hyperbole to fox news. We’re all friends here at jbf. We’re all pulling for the same team. Even if the Harrys and Joes of the world are a little misguided in their thinking, they’re still friends.
February 18th, 2014 at 9:44 am
@Joe Says:
“Harry: …Not sure. Either you are using an IP address that was blacklisted at one time or Joe’s spam filter doesn’t like where your messages are coming from. Do you work for BSPN?
No, no BSPN for me. And as far as blocking my IP, never happened, but maybe you should consider Idahobucsfan? LOL
Someone in here told me once, and now I know its true, that when you write the names B_rad or B_radly (written normally), the JBF filters block the post. Not only did I have B_radly in my post, but also when I wrote to you I wrote then as well. It blocked both of them.
February 18th, 2014 at 9:50 am
@Patrick: thank you for labeling me as misguided. Since you said it, that tells me I am on the right track…
btw, Joe finally got my post up