“Mistake” Helps Schiano’s Bid For Third Year
December 20th, 2013
The ghost of Raheem Morris lingers at One Buc Palace.
When former Bucs coach Raheem Morris manned the pirate ship, it was one big chest-bump at One Buc Palace. With rap music blaring at practices (in 2009) and the head coach hanging with players in trendy south Tampa hot spots, it was more like One Buc Club than an NFL franchise.
And it showed on the field in 2011.
Likely embarrassed, Team Glazer hired Greg Schiano, in part, to lay down a New Schiano Order, weed out malcontents like DJ Toes on the Line, Rip Van Freeman and reality star-wannabe Dez Briscoe, among others, and build a new foundation.
Thus far, there have been highs and lows nearly two years after Schiano took the gig. But the ghost of Morris casts a pall on the doors of the suits at One Buc Palace. Because of that, both the Custodian of Canton, eye-RAH! Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune, and the one and only Chris “Mad Dog” Russo, agree that ghost may very well be a significant reason why Schiano, still searching for his first winning season in the NFL (Morris actually had a winning season his second year), could be retained for the 2014 campaign.
That’s what Kaufman said to Russo in his weekly appearance, “Kaufman’s Korner,” on the show that bears the hosts’ name, “Mad Dog Unleashed,” heard exclusively on SiriusXM Radio.
eye-RAH! Kaufman: They are trying to get through a miserable football season, Chris. Only two weeks left. Schiano’s future is up in the balance. Who knows what the Glazers are thinking? Chris, I will tell you one thing: I don’t think they are in a hurry to admit to making another coaching mistake. I think that works in Schiano’s favor.
Chris “Mad Dog” Russo: I think he is going to get another year. Now they are going to lose their last two games, I think. So they are going to be 4-12. I don’t think these last two games are going to look good for Schiano as far as the record is concerned. But I think with the quarterback [Mike Glennon] and that turned out to be a pretty good move, and the fact they were relatively competitive, and as you said, after the last coaching moves with the last guy you had, what was his name again, I forget?
Kaufman: Raheem Morris.
Russo: Oh, yeah (laughs), Raheem Morris (laughs). How many coaching moves can you make? I think Schiano will get a third year. Now I wouldn’t bet the ranch he is 4-12 next year. But I do think he will get a third year.
Joe does sense Kaufman and Russo are on to something. Joe is pretty sure Team Glazer does not want to be the Oakland Raiders of the east coast, changing coaches every two years. That is hardly any way to develop a foundation, develop consistency, all necessary ingredients for building a lasting contender.
The mystery won’t last long. We should know within two weeks if Team Glazer is going to make a move or not. If Joe had to lay a $5 bill, he’d bet Schiano returns.
That’s how cautious Joe is. Nothing is etched in stone. One can only read the current tea leaves, which are floating in Schiano’s direction.
December 20th, 2013 at 8:06 am
If they don’t get a quarterback it doesn’t matter who the coach is. Glennon is not the answer.
December 20th, 2013 at 8:17 am
The Glazers will let Schiano run the draft for the third straight year. He will get his third year in Tampa. I really don’t think that they will let go Coach Schiano, As it is nice that the Bucs finally have some that can identify talent in the draft,
December 20th, 2013 at 8:31 am
Shades of the Steve McQueen western Tom Horn. Tom Horn was a tough cowboy gunslinger himself hired by the towns people to establish law and order. Once Tom cleaned up the town of rustlers and gunslingers, the townspeople had to figure out how to get rid of Tom!
December 20th, 2013 at 8:48 am
Now, that is the best rationalization I have heard for why they would want to keep Schiano – Glazers do not want “…to admit to making another coaching mistake”.
That is so screwed up, but probably right on the money. And that also means keeping Glennon. Next year is going to be another abomination. You cannot win consistently in todays NFL with a mediocre QB and a coach with a pop gun offense.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:25 am
We need offensive linemen and defensive linemen. Our O line is not worth the price.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:30 am
Oh yeah, Raheem Morris…..laughs.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:45 am
@Harry it’s an institutional belief for the Bucs to play to not lose, rather than playing to win. Goes from the coaches, straight up to management. I do think there will be a new OC next year.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:25 am
phil Says
“If they don’t get a quarterback it doesn’t matter who the coach is. Glennon is not the answer.”
.
The_Buc_Realist Says
“The Glazers will let Schiano run the draft for the third straight year.”
.
I SAY
I’ve been saying exactly what phil said since Glennon was drafted. Realist, here’s my theory. I’ve said it in the past, but here it is.
Most new coaches when hired get the option of bringing in their own QB of choice. The only exceptions to this are teams that either have given up their top pick or teams that already have a well established QB in place (such as Dungy when he became coach of the Colts).
When Schiano was hired, the GM and the Owners still believed in Josh Freeman. I believe he probably didn’t really want Freeman, but wasn’t given a choice. So in his first draft he avoided QBs.
Then, in his second draft they had cut Dan-O so they needed a replacement that could be groomed into a suitable backup. At that point, Schiano was probably sure he wanted Freeman replaced, but because of the ups of Josh in the season before, the GM and Owners probably felt that an elite QB was in Freeman and he just had to have more time.
Add the fact that the Bucs did not have a first round pick because of the Revis deal, and all Schiano could do is draft a replacement for Dan-O and hope that Freeman had more ups than downs this year. Dan-O was brought back. Why? Because the Bucs were not convinced that Glennon would work out as a backup. They wanted insurance.
We all know he didn’t. He flopped. While I believe it wasn’t all Josh’s fault, the QB always gets the blame. So he’s out.
The Glazers thought they had a great QB in Freeman. Now he’s gone. Turns out Schiano was right (if my theory is correct). So now, they have probably told GM and head coach that they must draft a QB in the first round to replace the one that was released.
Schiano has been fantastic at drafting good players. I thought his first draft was a fluke when I saw this years draft. But as it turned out, it was a pretty good one as well.
So I believe Schiano will finally get his first round QB in the next draft. I believe since he didn’t get to sooner, the owners will give him another season and perhaps a 4th season to break in the new QB.
I also believe Glennon will be starting at the beginning of next season unless the drafted QB wows everyone (like Mike Williams did), but eventually the new guy will step up.
Glennon will go down as the second coming of Chris Simms.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:38 am
“As it is nice that the Bucs finally have some that can identify talent in the draft,”
Aside from David, I’m unimpressed with the last two years drafts.
2012 – had Barron & David in the first – although both are very good players, both were over-drafted based on position. The other 4 picks have been irrelevant, only Michael Smith is with the team.
2013 – Banks has been as expected, or a little less than such, as a second round pick – starts but has been a liability. Glennon hasn’t shown to be more than a back up to this point, with a 3rd round pick you need a starter. Spence in the 4th has been one of Schiano’s better picks, is not spectacular, but solidly fills his role. Gholston and Means have potential – what you expect from late round picks. James is running back – getting a running late or undrafted is common, not impressive as ‘talent’ evaluation.
Schiano’s drafts have been middle of the road. There’s no player he’s drafted that is playing above their pre-draft scouting report. Go back and look at the 2012 draft, as soon as David was drafted, there were multiple ”experts” saying he was the best pick in the draft, and had the potential to be the player he is becoming. It wasn’t Schiano who saw it and no one else did.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:40 am
Joe,
I agree with you. I don’t want schiano back but Russo and IRA make a good point. If we end the season and the organization feels that glennon is going to be a very good qb, then schiano will be back. If they feel we need to draft a new one in the 1st round, then a new coach will make the pick. I don’t think the glazers fire schiano with out having the inside track on a proven coach.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:42 am
Guys, what good is having a new OC if he still has to run Schiano’s conservative, run up the middle, play not to lose offense? If Schiano is retained for next year, as I believe he will be, it will be another long season. And as a long-time Bucs fan who went through the successful seasons of playoffs, division wins and a championship, mediocrity is not acceptable. And I don’t know about you guys, but I’m getting tired of always saying now “wait until next year”
December 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am
Not opposed to him returning as long as a few assistants are shown the door. Both coordinators, receivers, d-line to start. the Bucs drafts have been much better since NSO got here, maybe a coincidence, maybe not. Some heads must roll for a 4-12 record from a team with this much supposed talent, let’s just hope it’s the right heads.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:47 am
Like him or hate him, Schiano has changed things for the better in the Bucs organization. It may not be reflected in wins, but the changes have been great.
Fans memories are short. All they remember (mostly) is the wins and losses of Raheem Morris. They forget how bad it really was with him as head coach.
The challenges Schiano faced coming in were
– a total lack of discipline in most of the players with few exceptions.
– a mixed group of players that consisted partly of players that wanted to coast thru their careers with as little effort as possible
– another part of that group were players that thought they were better than everyone and wanted to be treated better
– yet another part were the players that broke the rules on and off the field…Tanard Jackson. Talib. Wright. etc.
– yet another part of players that just were not good enough at all.
– and finally, there was a small group of players who were good or had the potential to be good with the right coaching and they had good attitudes.
So Schiano had to figure out who was who. That is a lot to deal with. Five groups of players and 4 of them needed to either be cut or straightened out.
Looking at it like that, doesn’t it make sense that it would take at least a season to figure out who was who? Sure, some became obvious pretty quickly. He got rid of them just as quickly.
Even after he figured out who was who, you have to understand that it takes time to flip a roster like he needed to. Assuming that it took a full season to get the lay of the land, think about how many people he needed or still needs to replace.
It takes time, and given the limits on getting a QB up until now, he deserves at least one more year, maybe two. If he get’s in everyone he wants, imagine how good this team will be. Look at who he has brought in so far.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:51 am
gatorkmk, I don’t understand how you can even think that way. Of course Schiano knew what David was. That is why he drafted him. Same with Martin. Same with Baron. Same with Spence.
And considering Glennon was drafted with the intent of being a backup, same with him as well.
December 20th, 2013 at 10:59 am
What has Schiano shown in his history as a head coach to make you believe that he has the potential to be a consistent winner in the NFL (ie 10 wins, playoffs, championship contender).
Schiano seems like a good guy, and he has changed to culture of the organization. But my problem with him as the head coach is that he not shown to be championship caliber at any point in his career. One conference championship in 2000 as DC at Miami, and he has been a coach for 22 years. He may instill discipline, and help players mature etc etc – that’s fine if your the coach at Army or a high school – but in the NFL or major college ball you have to win. Schiano hasn’t. All I hear is ‘We’re going to turn this around – just wait. I’ve done this before.’ That’s simply not true – as a head coach he has not led a team to any type of championship, ever.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:02 am
“BuccaneerBonzai Says:
December 20th, 2013 at 10:51 am
gatorkmk, I don’t understand how you can even think that way. Of course Schiano knew what David was. That is why he drafted him. Same with Martin. Same with Baron. Same with Spence.
And considering Glennon was drafted with the intent of being a backup, same with him as well.”
All I am saying is he does not seem to be an exceptional evaluator of talent. He has not made picks that have outperformed the general consensus of them. His evaluation skills seems to be about the same as everyone else, an average skill set. Is average an improvement over what we seen in the past, yes. But I don’t see being average as a selling point to keep someone as a head coach.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:28 am
@gatorkmk
It’s not just the draft where Schiano has helped…and….by the way, you forgot James, Tandy, Gholston….
But it is the development of young unddrafted talent….look at Tim Wright and others in the pipeline like LJ, Melvin, Page, Shepard, Owusu…
I like what I’m seeing with player selection & development but the fact that we have to develop so many players is costing us wins now. Hopefully it will mean an affordable productive roster in the future.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:35 am
I think the laugh after remembering Raheem Morris was hilarious. Russo had forgotten his name and then once he remembered he had to chuckle just thinking of the guy being a head coach. Unfortunately for those years while Raheem was in charge we just cried each Sunday.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:42 am
Has Schiano had good drafts? Let’s find out.
2009 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Josh Freeman QB – GONE, considered a bust.
3 Roy Miller DT – GONE, thought to be good, but turned out to be easily replaced.
4 Kyle Moore DE – GONE, thought to be a bust.
5 Xavier Fulton T – GONE, bad pick
7 E.J. Biggers CB – GONE, bad pick
7 Sammie Stroughter WR – GONE, bad pick
5 bad picks
1 good pick
2010 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Gerald McCoy DT – the best pick of the Morris & Dominick era.
2 Brian Price DT – GONE, thought to be a bust
2 Arrelious Benn WR – GONE, thought to be a bust
3 Myron Lewis CB – GONE, bad pick
4 Mike Williams WR – the second best pick of the Morris & Dominick era
6 Brent Bowden P – GONE, bad pick
7 Cody Grimm LB – GONE, bad pick
7 Dekoda Watson LB – was a depth pick, turned out to be decent, not great
7 Erik Lorig DE – providing depth, was an okay pick I guess, not great
5 bad picks
4 good picks
2011 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Adrian Clayborn DE – Still trying to prove himself but I believe he will become
very good.
2 DaQuan Bowers DE – still here but most would consider him a bad pick./ I would like
to see him excel but it is looking less and less likely.
3 Mason Foster LB – very good pick
4 Luke Stocker TE – INJURED, but an okay pick I guess. Very possible he’ll be cut by
next season.
5 Ahmad Black S – GONE, bad pick
6 Allen Bradford RB – GONE, really bad pick
7 Anthony Gaitor CB – INJURED, but bad pick. Afterall he was part of the worse
secondary in the league.
7 Daniel Hardy TE – GONE, bad pick
5 bad picks
3 good picks
Now let’s look at the next era.
2012 DRAFT – Greg Schiano & Mark Dominick
1 Mark Barron SS – Great pick, developed a little slower than David but is coming
into his own by the end of his second year
1 Doug Martin RB – Fantastic pick
2 Lavonte David OLB – Fantastic pick
5 Najee Goode ILB – GONE, bad pick
6 Keith Tandy CB – Depth pick
7 Michael Smith RB – INJURED, I thought was a good pick for the 7th round, but doubt
he’ll make the team next year
7 Drake Dunsmore TE – GONE, bad pick
2 bad picks
5 good picks
2013 DRAFT – Greg Schiano & Mark Dominick
2 Johnthan Banks CB – Great pick. Developing into a very good CB. By the end of his
second season he should be top notch
3 Mike Glennon QB – drafted to be a backup and is performing that role well enough
until a better QB is drafted or signed
4 Akeem Spence DT – Roy Miller’s replacement. Already better than Miller in his
rookie year.
4 Wil. Gholston DE – Turning out to good. Schiano thinks he might even turn out to be
great.
5 Steven Means DE – Depth pick
6 Mike James RB – INJURED, Turned out to be a pretty good backup
0 bad picks
6 good picks
Totals
Morris & Dominick 8 of 23 for good picks. A 35% success rate
Schiano & Dominick 11 of 13 for good picks. A 85% success rate
When is the last time you we’ve seen a coach and gm hit on 100% of their picks in the
draft. Yet that’s what happened in the 2013 draft.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:44 am
Has Schiano had good drafts? Let’s find out.
2009 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Josh Freeman QB – GONE, considered a bust.
3 Roy Miller DT – GONE, thought to be good, but turned out to be easily replaced.
4 Kyle Moore DE – GONE, thought to be a bust.
5 Xavier Fulton T – GONE, bad pick
7 E.J. Biggers CB – GONE, bad pick
7 Sammie Stroughter WR – GONE, bad pick
5 bad picks
1 good pick
2010 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Gerald McCoy DT – the best pick of the Morris & Dominick era.
2 Brian Price DT – GONE, thought to be a bust
2 Arrelious Benn WR – GONE, thought to be a bust
3 Myron Lewis CB – GONE, bad pick
4 Mike Williams WR – the second best pick of the Morris & Dominick era
6 Brent Bowden P – GONE, bad pick
7 Cody Grimm LB – GONE, bad pick
7 Dekoda Watson LB – was a depth pick, turned out to be decent, not great
7 Erik Lorig DE – providing depth, was an okay pick I guess, not great
5 bad picks
4 good picks
2011 DRAFT – Raheem Morris & Mark Dominick
1 Adrian Clayborn DE – Still trying to prove himself but I believe he will become very good.
2 DaQuan Bowers DE – still here but most would consider him a bad pick./ I would like to see him excel but it is looking less and less likely.
3 Mason Foster LB – very good pick
4 Luke Stocker TE – INJURED, but an okay pick I guess. Very possible he’ll be cut by next season.
5 Ahmad Black S – GONE, bad pick
6 Allen Bradford RB – GONE, really bad pick
7 Anthony Gaitor CB – INJURED, but bad pick. Afterall he was part of the worse secondary in the league.
7 Daniel Hardy TE – GONE, bad pick
5 bad picks
3 good picks
December 20th, 2013 at 11:48 am
gatorkmk, Raheen Morris only had a 34 percent success rate in the draft. Only 8 of 23 of his picks were considered good.
Greg Schiano has an 85 percent rate. He has hit on 11 of 13 picks. In his last draft he hit on one hundred percent.
I am sorry, sir, but you are wrong. Greg Schiano has been the best talent evaluator in the league for the past two years.
December 20th, 2013 at 11:53 am
“@gatorkmk
It’s not just the draft where Schiano has helped…and….by the way, you forgot James, Tandy, Gholston….
But it is the development of young unddrafted talent….look at Tim Wright and others in the pipeline like LJ, Melvin, Page, Shepard, Owusu…
I like what I’m seeing with player selection & development but the fact that we have to develop so many players is costing us wins now. Hopefully it will mean an affordable productive roster in the future.”
I forgot Tandy, but he has not shown to be an NFL player, a CBs body with safety speed. Drafting RBs is not impressive, the fact we have had 3/4 RBs be effective this year is not evidence of ability to find RBs but illustrative that RBs are plentiful and not really that valuable. There are about 5 backs in the league who can make a difference – the rest are just ‘guys’. Gholston has never started a game, he has made a couple of play but that’s it, if Means hits and becomes a double digit sack player I will be impressed with Schiano. He a player that was off the radar and our scouting is why he was drafted.
The fact we look at guys like Johnson, Page, Shepard and Owusu as viable options is just an illustration of how bad the roster is. These are 3rd string players – they come and go every year on every team.
The bottom line of Schiano is that he is average. His career has been average. Just because the last coach was below average in may ways, doesn’t mean average will win us anything.
I’m a Bucs fan. In the same way I wanted Dilfer (Morris, King, Freeman, Testaverde, Erickson, Curry, Thomas, McRae, Tate etc etc etc etc) to be great, I want Schiano to be great. But I don’t see why I should be believe he will be.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
Joe, please check your email for a message from me.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
So the majority opinion is now Schiano sucks except for his defensive capability, but he will return next season to be head coach. Glennon sucks every which way, a third round back up QB at best who will return as QB in 2014. Our offense sure sucks under this scenario. The Bucs need some offense that can score more than 20 points a game and give Glennon adequate protection on passing plays. No sacks on our QB. It’s asking too much for a capable offense, just like all previous years, the Bucs never had one.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
You cannot discount any of his picks. If you choose to ignore whatever picks you like, you can make ALL coaches look bad.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Bucfan#37 Says
“Glennon sucks every which way, a third round back up QB at best who will return as QB in 2014.”
Um…that is what he was intended to be, regardless of what the media fed us. Right now he is a space filler until the draft or free agency.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:09 pm
gatorkmk, email me at buccanerbonzai2 at yahoo and I’ll send you the breakdown of those drafts.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
“BuccaneerBonzai Says:
December 20th, 2013 at 11:48 am
gatorkmk, Raheen Morris only had a 34 percent success rate in the draft. Only 8 of 23 of his picks were considered good.
Greg Schiano has an 85 percent rate. He has hit on 11 of 13 picks. In his last draft he hit on one hundred percent.
I am sorry, sir, but you are wrong. Greg Schiano has been the best talent evaluator in the league for the past two years.”
What’s a hit? Making the roster?
The only great pick I see in the last two years is David.
If Barron is not an All-Pro, that will be a bad pick. A safety in the top ten need to be a special player.
Martin has been very good, but even he was eclipsed in rushing yards by a 6th rounder. I just don’t believe running backs are valuable in the current NFL, and we traded up to get him.
Good, Tandy, Smith and Dunsmore haven’t – and likely won’t make an impact with the team.
Banks is a question mark at this point. He may or may not be an answer at CB.
Glennon is looking more and more like a backup each week. You don’t draft a backup QB in the third round if you are a losing team. That’s a depth move when everything else is set.
Spence has been solid if unspectacular, good pick. Gholston and Mean have seen limited action. Although Gholston has flashed.
James had a nice little run at RB, but once again RBs are overvalued. He may not even be on this team next year, and if he’s not it’s not a big deal. RBs are a dime a dozen.
He’s drafted one Pro Bowl player (Martin). David should be an Pro-Bowl, All- Pro and Defensive Player of the Year candidate. He won’t be DPOY (or likely All-Pro) because the team is bad, and the national image of him is still the bad penalty on Geno Smith. I don’t see Schiano as that impressive in the draft or with talent, average. And as a coach he’s below average.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
You are wrong #37.
Glennon is good.
Schiano will return.
The Bucs will add a few more free agents (thanks to that loser Josh Freeman being dumped) along with another solid draft.
Can’t wait!
I love my new Bucs.
Hated Raheem and Freeman… and Winslow.
December 20th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
Greg Schiano now is a frequent poster here on JoeBucsFan under the name of BuccaneerBonzai
December 20th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Backups are commonly found in the third round or later. Doesn’t matter. I see facts won’t change anything. You’ve clearly made up your mind and so are blinded to factual data.
December 20th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
lol, not hardly, Mr. Patrick.
I just looked at the results of the last 5 drafts. It is the common tactic of persons without facts to back up their claims to resort to calling names.
December 20th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
@BuccaneerBonzai
So, what you are saying is we spent (wasted) a 3rd rd pk on Glennon to be a future backup? WHY, when we have NEED at so many positions, would we waste (my word) a 3rd rd pk on a backup QB? A backup QB is usually picked up in free agency. Most of the time when a QB is drafted it is for grooming to be the future starter.
My feeling is Schiano drafted Glennon to be groomed as a franchise starting QB; Schiano is NOT drafting another QB next year. If Schiano stays, Glennon is your starting QB as long as Schiano is the HC
December 20th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
gatorkmk- Those are some lofty expectations you have my friend. How long did it take McKay/Dungy to put together the winning teams of the “glory years”? They had more than 2 years to do it.
Schiano came to TB with practically an empty cupboard(especially when you factor in the Freeman mess!). The best coaches are not going to hit on all picks, so give this guy some credit. If you can’t look at the pieces he’s put together on defense and see the improvement then you’ve got “fire Schiano” blinders on.
I like our direction and I think he deserves another shot.Nothing is going to be perfect, but I’d rather not hit “reset” AGAIN! You THINK this is a mess!
Go Bucs!
December 20th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
@BucsfaninChina Says:
“…it’s an institutional belief for the Bucs to play to not lose, rather than playing to win. Goes from the coaches, straight up to management. I do think there will be a new OC next year.”
I concur. A lot of coaches play not to lose. There is no excuse for the Bucs to have the #32 ranked offense – NONE! Between the injuries, drama, change in QBs we have had, of course I would expect a drop from the lofty #9 offense we had last year. But not to the bottom and still falling. A lot of it – most of it – is Schiano. He is a defensive minded coach (see how that worked out for Lovie Smith – he went thru 4 OCs in Chicago – I laugh at ppl who suggest Lovie coach the Bucs – he already is… lol).
But Schiano is coming back. So is Glennon (bc Schiano is coming back). So, as you said, Sully faces the guillotine, and he should.
December 20th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
pathetic that we have to wait another year to see if the freakin head coach is going develop. “The ghost of Raheem Morris lingers at One Buc Palace.” i wish for those days again, atleast he started out the season 4-2, we werent calling him an idiot like we are greg schiano…..comparing raheem morris team to this years team your gonna say we dont have enough talent, thats an insult and no coach should go 0-8 and have a chance to keep his job with a roster this talented all i hear are excuses for why we suck but no one gave raheem excuses. above average talent with below average coaching equals middle of the road which is not much farther than where we were under raheem morris…he did what he was asked to do as a coach which was try to win games with a talentless squad of rookies and nobodies……no one even gave raheem morris the excuse of not having an offseason to work with his young players because of a lockout but schiano has be afforded every luxury you can imagine and what do we get…the same record we had under raheem morris.
the next two games should not decide schiano’s fate, whether he stays or goes should already be decided….ex bucs on our greatest teams of our history think this guy is a joke so ill side with a hall of famer like warren sapp any day of the week and twice on sunday
December 20th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
bring back p.j. fleck lol
December 20th, 2013 at 3:13 pm
“Bucsfanman Says:
December 20th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
gatorkmk- Those are some lofty expectations you have my friend. How long did it take McKay/Dungy to put together the winning teams of the “glory years”? They had more than 2 years to do it.”
Do you remember Dungy’s first 2 years?
1st year – 6-10
2 year – 10-6 and playoffs
Exactly two years.
December 20th, 2013 at 3:20 pm
BuccaneerBonzai –
I haven’t ignored ‘facts’ – all I want to know is what ‘facts’ give you the belief that Schiano will be a successful head coach. I can find any in his history.
I hope that he does. I hope that he changes his career trajectory from mediocre to superior, but that’s just it ‘hope’.
December 20th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
True gatorkmk but that team already had pieces in place. Lynch, Brooks, Sapp, and even the great Trent Dilfer were already here. In terms of a foundation, I would say that exceeds what Schiano had to work with don’t you think.
I’m not making excuses. If there is no improvement next year I’ll jump on the bandwagon too. I’m just saying, how can we know? Look at the Freeman mess! Anybody see that coming?! He should get a pass based on that alone.
By the way, what “facts” lead you to believe that Dungy was going to be a good HC? What was his head-coaching experience like before the Bucs? Oh yeah, that’s right, he had NONE!!! Just saying.
December 20th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
@ BuccaneerBonzai
Thanks for the draft evaluation under Schiano/Raheem. At least I thinks thats what it was as I scrolled over the first 10 paragraphs.
You forgot a few stats from earlier this year 0-8 and currently 4-10 with the possibility of being 4-16.
Schiano has no legitimate TE, let Bennett go for couch change, keeps trying to use Bowers(the human bookend) and is very thin at almost all positions.
Schiano doesn’t get it when it comes to X’s and O’s. His play calling makes that evident.
Bring in Lovie as head coach and let him bring in a good offensive coordinator. At least Buc Ball had a hard nose defense not this flip flop crap from week to week.
December 20th, 2013 at 5:38 pm
“Bucsfanman Says:
December 20th, 2013 at 4:26 pm By the way, what “facts” lead you to believe that Dungy was going to be a good HC? What was his head-coaching experience like before the Bucs? Oh yeah, that’s right, he had NONE!!! Just saying.”
You’re right – he had no head coaching experience, but he had the potential to be good. When he was hired was I confident, or see any evidence he would be great – not really, but the potential was still there. Schiano has been a head coach, and been average, for a long time. I don’t see potential at this point, he has demonstrated what he is.
Think about it this way – would you rather have a player like Akeem Spence or Roy Miller. Both very similar, run stuffing DT with a little pass ability. The difference is we know what Miller is, he is out of potential. Spence still has the potential to be something more.
December 20th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
As far as the Freeman mess, he did see it coming that why we drafted Glennon, and tried (and failed) to sign Carson Palmer. On the outside we don’t know all the facts of the situation, but it looks like the Bucs had an idea something was wrong. I just disagree with the moves they made surrounding the problem -drafting Glennon as a starting option and having Orlovsky as the only other QB with a start in the league on the team.
December 20th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
MTM,
We were discussing talent evaluation in the draft (I was). Not win. Not losses. Draft.
And while we are at it, he also let Roy Miller go. In the process, he drafted Spence…a better player.
He’s thin at positions because you cannot rebuild a whole team in two drafts, not when there were so many issues. And the main reason he is thin? Injuries. At the start of the season only two positions were “thin”. WR was considered overstacked. Injuries wiped out the starters.
Lovie Smith is a BIG no, unless it is only as DC, which is doubtful. I hate to break it to you, but Schiano will be here another year, whether you like it or not. Not just because it is the Glazers choice, but because it is smart business.
This time next year fans will love Schiano I suspect. And not a one will eat crow.
December 20th, 2013 at 7:58 pm
@Bucs Fan #237… I said majority opinion, not my opinion. I like Glennon as Bucs QB, have since he was drafted.
December 20th, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Great Job Bonzi! I see these same things as I evaluate the job that our head coach is doing. I would bring him back if it were up to me,.. I believe he has a long-term focus…. that doesn’t always look good in the beginning! GO BUCS!
December 20th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
Bonzai—how can you say the more modern lower round picks are good depth picks, but the ones from earlier in Dominick’s regime are “bad picks”. Biggers, Straughter, & Grimm all got significant playing time, & all played immensely well for as low as they were drafted. They were DEPTH PICKS for that era, just like you say now. & hasn’t Gaitor been hurt for the better part of two seasons (which isn’t ideal, I know)…I not sure you can blame him for last year’s secondary debacle when he was in street clothes most of the time.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
As for Joe’s constant assertion that we’re trying to avoid being the Raiders—the Raiders were headed by a guy who always thought he was the de facto head coach, meddling up a storm. The Glazers do the exact opposite. & just because you have a bad apple, you don’t keep the bad apple because you don’t want the perception to be that you throw out apples. Greg Schiano I think has proven he doesn’t quite have the tactical ability to be in this league. If he gets two immensely talented assistants in here next year, he might have a shot (& how would that happen? He’s pissed off most of the NFL at Rutgers, & that’s why we have the two coordinators we do now. Plus, EVERYONE will know Schiano is coaching on his last legs next year unless he hits it out of that park…an ability he hasn’t shown in his entire coaching career).
Greg will probably get a 3rd year, mostly because of Morris’ last mistake (Freeman), the injuries, & the tough schedule. But some teams that went for “consistency” instead of “elite competence” (the Bengals & Texans) at most showed they were destined for 1st round playoff outs. We’ll be lucky if Greger gets that far.
Greg is hardheaded, *&*, not that smart. That’s a tough combination in an evolving sport.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:05 pm
PS—that’s why the mutual hiring of Dom & Raheem was so hurtful, because Dom deserves to pick his own man again (GMs generally get two HC hires)…but Dom hasn’t made the playoffs in 5 years (an egregious stat), & I’m not sure the Glazers should trust him to run another coaching search.
December 20th, 2013 at 9:25 pm
@Mr. Patrick Says:
“…Greg Schiano now is a frequent poster here on JoeBucsFan under the name of BuccaneerBonzai…”
LOL, its true.
December 21st, 2013 at 1:04 am
There are no excuses for this season’s record; it was the HC’s decision. “making this move now gives us the best chance to win” is what he said.” Going from 7-9 to 4-12 is not improvement, it’s regression and with the talent the team has, it’s unacceptable.