Keep Greg Schiano
December 25th, 2013
Joe makes the case
Joe just laughs when Bucs fans demand consistency from their team. That’s a true and a noble goal. Consistent winner. It’s not like it can’t be done in the NFL; it’s not like the Bucs have never done that. Joe can’t argue with wanting if not demanding consistency with victories.
Then, just as quickly as Bucs fans scream consistency, they want to run Bucs commander Greg Schiano out of town right now.
This just in folks: You can’t have both.
Where would the Stinking Panthers be if they got rid of Ron Rivera last season?
There’s no need for the Bucs to turn into the east coast version of the Oakland Raiders. They haven’t been back to the playoffs since the Bucs pounded them 12 years ago to win a Super Bowl. The Raiders have had six different coaches since. Do the math.
You don’t build a winner by unloading a coach after two years.
Climbing from the ashes
Schiano was given a monumental task. The team had gone off the deep end with the ultimate party coach, Raheem Morris. He didn’t care what you did off the field and it seemed the on-field product was waning as well.
Missed a tackle? Don’t worry. You will just have to buy the first round at McDinton’s tonight. Dropped a football? Ah, you still owe me a gin and tonic. That will not be two? Hound your young quarterback play after play demanding the ball despite your body breaking down and you drawing double- and triple-coverage? Forget about it. We’re good. You are a warrior.
Don’t feel like practicing? OK, just show up for the game.
These were the types of things that were ingrained into the Bucs and it took Schiano the better part of two years to weed out the malcontents, the drinking and partying, and put football back into the top focus of the team.
Building a winner from that nonsense doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time.
The Rip Van Freeman sabotage
Just the mere fact that Rip Van Freeman did his best to wreck this team in order to satisfy his selfish ways and get cut loose is enough for Joe to give Schiano another year for hazardous duty.
No team in the NFL can do anything when its franchise quarterback implodes to begin the season. Hell, look what happened with Tuna Parcells with the Jets? His starting quarterback, Vinny Testeverde, was hurt on opening day one season and the Jets never recovered. And that was with a Hall of Fame coach.
Did anyone really believe the Bucs could win with a rookie third-round draft pick of a quarterback? Sure Nick Foles, another third-round pick, is having a fabulous year this season. How did he do as a rookie with an offensive-minded coach? Not so well, did he?
Freeman did his best behind the scenes to Pearl Harbor the Bucs and he did one helluva job doing that. There’s a reason his teammates did not vote him captain, think about it. Outside of Donald Penn raising a stink, did you notice any other Bucs crying about Freeman getting booted? Should tell you something as well.
Just because Freeman melted down that shouldn’t mean ripping apart the franchise by getting a new coach. On this reason alone Schiano deserves another year, if not a raise.
Developing players
The haters of Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik love to claim Schiano is running the draft and credit the head coach for the solid drafts of 2012 and 2013, not Dominik, which Schiano has consistently claimed is nonsense. Joe has another angle that is better based in reality. Schiano and his staff know how to develop talent.
Notice under Raheem Morris people were hollering how Gerald McCoy was a bust? Now he is one of the elite players in the NFL. Notice how rotten of a player Quincy Black was? He played his best football with Schiano. Notice how much Mason Foster was overwhelmed as a rookie? He is one of the more consistent linebackers in the NFL now. Demar Dotson has become a serviceable tackle, not under Morris, but under Schiano.
So you want to unload a coach right now who has established a keen ability to get the most out of young players?
Team is still “gelling”
Players love to use the term “gel.” It is an overused cliché but in this case, the proper synonym would be “molding.’ The NFL isn’t like baseball where you can load up your team often with All-Stars and the team will automatically be good. In the NFL, players, both veterans and youngsters, have to learn how to play with each other because at one point they were strangers.
That’s the case specifically with the Bucs secondary. The secondary is getting better and better because they are learning how to play with each other’s strengths and weaknesses. You had three new starters in the secondary this year, two vets and a rookie. These things sometimes take a season or more to bond. That’s not Schiano’s fault.
Recovering injuries
In a way, Adrian Peterson has hurt his brethren in the NFL. Peterson is a medical freak. He came back from an ugly knee injury in one year and it was as if he never lost a step. This is rare. Incredibly rare. Yet now, that same freakish standard is forced upon all players by fans.
Ask Darrelle Revis if he is back to his old self and he will honestly admit, no. Davin Joseph, good guy that he is, will wave off the question and state that cannot be used as an excuse and he needs to play better.
The simple fact is, it often takes more than a year for a player to bounce back from a knee surgery. Imagine how much better the Bucs can be if Revis and Joseph and (oh, yeah) Adrian Clayborn are fully recovered (notice Clayborn is playing his best football of the season in December?).
The fact all three are coming back from knee surgeries shouldn’t mean Schiano is sacrificed.
Conclusion
Schiano has done everything (but win) Team Glazer has asked him to do. Clean out the locker room and build a team of players the community can be proud of. Then, build that lasting contender.
If Schiano comes back in 2014 – and he should! – There are no more excuses. He’s had two years to lay his foundation. Time for a winning season, or else.
Due to a confluence of events and circumstances, it would be shameful to jettison Greg Schiano next week.
Merry Christmas!
December 25th, 2013 at 8:47 am
You make a lot of very good points. But something tells me, when I read the next article, Fire Greg Schiano, I will want him gone again. Im so flippy floppy on Schinao, I’m glad I don’t own this team
December 25th, 2013 at 9:04 am
The Ron Rivera point is good joe; however, isn’t that the point to improve and not to go 7-9 and then go backward to 4-12 regardless of the Freeman crap or Mrsa or injuries. Look @ the patriots for CS. Everybody has f&@$);’ injuries right now.
December 25th, 2013 at 9:23 am
No flip flop from this season ticket holder since 1977. Make him walk the plank. Schiano can only coach ‘yes men’. He does not know how do deal with the various personalities of pro players.
December 25th, 2013 at 9:50 am
Schiano Stays. Sorry but he is getting one more shot at this. Last Shot, but one more shot for sure, and next Season the Bucs will bounce back strong.
But first they are going to beat the Saints on Sunday, and send that whiny B!t<H Drew Brees home for the playoffs.
I can't stand Cum Spewton but Carolina is going to the NFC Championship.
December 25th, 2013 at 10:04 am
Good ideas guys. After reading both I think Keep Schiano makes a better argument. I say give him 1 more year. Merry Christmas all.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:06 am
Joe not to be rude but Doms drafts were atrocious 09-11 and his free agency additions were nothing but overpaying for players. The eagles cowboys and eagles in the past did that and failed miserably.
Besides Vincent Jackson , bucs have not gotten any ROI in wright, nicks, goldson and Revis. I said Revis and goldson would be wastes of cash when we could have strengthen our dline and gotten someone like Brent grimes and Sean smith, both at 5mm a year, resigned Bennett , (look at that 3 players at 15 mm a year compared to two busts at 24 and a 1 and 3 draft picks).
I said we should have used that #13 overall pick on Vaccaro or Richardson or even Loutelleli if he slid. Look at that all 3 are young studs.
My favorite was Vaccaro bc he’s going to be a stud top 5 safety in this league. Now he’s in NO. Loutelli is in Carolina. And we’re overpaying for Revis who is far and away from the best defensive player.
Dom needs to go. His decision making has cost us over 5 years. Not saying schiano deserves to stay but we need a gm that can evaluate talent and mold it with the chemistry of this team.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:11 am
Not only that look at his additions: goldson and Barron are both the same players. Both are better run defenders and in the box safeties. Barron is a SS who might be better in coverage than goldson.
We don’t have any slot wr that is shifty and get open. We have two possession wrs who can get deep occasionally and win jump balls.
Not only is our offensive scheme vanilla so are our players. Jackson is a great wr but we have no diversity in terms of talent. It’s all the same at wr really.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:17 am
Hey Carolina fired their gm and look Rivera stayed. I’ve been saying it since last year Dom is the problem. He invested how much into the qb and dline and guess what those positions are still big issues. Of his 4 high draft picks, 3 have not met expectations and flopped. McCoy is the only player that is starting to look the part but how much credit can you give Dom on that when Bradford and Suh were off the board.
I’ll always remember Dom as one who took a punter over Greg hardy in the 6th round. Hardy was coming off an injury but in round 6 you take that chance.
He resigned Michael Clayton 10 million guaranteed. Derrick ward. Almost gave haynesworth the biggest deal in history. The 09 class. Josh freeman debacle. You name it.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:30 am
Dominiks early screwups are not relevant to the last two offseasons. Bucs would be foolish to gamble on a new GM, all new scouting staff.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:33 am
^^^ what free agency signing has paid off to what was spent on? Only guy I think of is Jackson. We invested picks and money into an unhealthy Revis. Goldson sucks. Nicks is prob getting cut. Wright ? LOL
December 25th, 2013 at 11:43 am
And Keith yes Doms screw ups are completely relevant. His first draft was a flop. He missed out on a franchise qb big time. Why give him another opportunity to find another? 3 busts at the dline in Clayborn bowers and price.
3 bad drafts set a franchise back.
December 25th, 2013 at 11:53 am
Dom=Rah=assclowns
December 25th, 2013 at 11:59 am
Outside of Donald Penn raising a stink, did you notice any other Bucs crying about Freeman getting booted? Should tell you something as well.
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Not really; most players won’t tell the media how they really feel about a situation. Also, the HC torpedoed the team with his my way or the highway approach. GMC had to go to them twice (that we know of) to ask them to sop using stunts an let him go straight at the QB. At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are. It’s hard to spin 7-9 to 4-11 as upward improvement. Fire Schi and get a proven offensive minded NFL coach and draft a QB with the 1st round pick
December 25th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Joe I didn’t have to read that entire article to know it was full of nonsense and excuses. First of all we were better under Raheem Morris with less talent…..injuries? We had no taken yet still managed to go 4-2 before we lost McCoy then we lost out the rest of the game…..the fact that as a coach Morris was as loose as a Hooker on nickle night make Schiano look even worse…Mr disciplinarian has the 2nd penalized team in the league and the worst offense…..YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS JOE, you haven’t given your say whether you think he should stay or go, get off the fence people decide yes or no. For years we complained the glazers didn’t care about the team because of Manchester United then they finally get this garbage coach and break the bank giving this guy all the talent he wanted and after spending all that money were saying we don’t have enough talent…..that’s just stupid
December 25th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Keep the coach another year. He seems to be a good talent evaluator. This season was stacked with strong opponents who the Bucs struggled with closing out close games. The losing season sucks, the slide back into mediocrity is troubling. If Schiano has a 5 year contract, year 3 should be the litmus test as to whether he remains beyond as coach.
December 25th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
The one thing that all of us Bucs fans have in common is that we want to win.
It’s funny to me though that we all slightly differ in our opinions of how to get back to winning. If we fire Schiano and Dominik, then what is our plan. Start all over with new head coach and quarterback. I am not totally against that either but we better be careful what we ask for because yes believe it or not we can do worse than Schiano and Dom. I am just saying that if they are fired, the Glazers need to do some consulting to come up with a good backup plan.
December 25th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
^ what gives you confidence that this same regime (Dom and schiano) will get it right when they have no history of doing that ?
Come on dude. Dom failed at dline and qb evaluation. Two of the most important positions in today’s nfl. Mike Williams and Jackson are the same wrs. Goldson is terrible. The 5 major acquisitions in the last two years, 4 have not panned out for what we have given up.
Come on dude. I’ve seen enough of this nonsense. The drafting improved the past two years for two reasons:
1. Eric stokes was our director of college scouting.this guy had a key role in acquiring talent in the later rounds of the draft in Seattle. Look at them now. He’s a future stud gm in the making. It’d be a shame to let him go and keep a horrid talent evaluator in Dom.
2. Schiano has developed nfl type players and stick in the nfl at Rutgers. He’s got any eye for nfl talent coming out of the college ranks as well. He’s just too stubborn to adjust to today’s offensive scheme. Like it or not that is how and why saban failed bc he had the same approach. Pound the rock and play action. He failed for the same reason.
December 25th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
I think Joe did the best job possible presenting the “Keep Schiano” argument. But I am with Santa – the most important detail is that in year two, the team got WORSE, not better. The Glazers have to ask the question “Are we moving forwards or backwards?” And the answer is backwards. Maybe he gets one more year, but he shouldn’t.
December 25th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
The reason this team will be 4 and 12 at the end of the yr is becus of this coaching staff. This team underachieved point blank. When looking at the overall job, this team is not headed in the right direction. You cant spin that in any other way.
December 25th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Who was the guy that made Nicks and Price run sprints on the 1st day of camp last year and destroyed their careers?
I’d fire that guy.
Today!!
How butch is that?
December 25th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
I say keep Schiano! Keep him until Sunday. Then on Monday morning…
December 25th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Brilliant, let’s keep him. I can see one fantastic reason to do so…
Another year of Schiano and Glennon with Sully and Sheridan would allow all the fans that are a little slow another year to evaluate and finally realize what most of us have known for quite some time. We can’t leave any fans behind, not even the slow ones.
December 25th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
revis will pay off. thanks to some very good cap management by dom his deal won’t cripple the team. they should’ve spent money on a DE this offseason but looking ahead at least it helps next year’s cap. freeman contract off the books, and guys like goldson and nicks can be dumped with no cap hits in the next year or 2 if they don’t play up to their salary. dom was a total flop in his collaboration with raheem, but he crafts some of the cap friendliest contracts in the league, he does well in trades, and despite the debacle on sundays talent evaluation and development has seemingly improved. schiano just needs to get better on sundays, either by trusting good coordinators (not these ones) more or by doing a ton of brutal self scouting this offseason.
December 25th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
This from the people who told us Freeman was our best chance to win, just before Schiano dumped him. Don’t disagree with the dumping, not personally sure how much was deliberate sabotage by Free, as Joe implies, but it was obvious the two were never going to work well, together. It sure looked, to me like the coaches were deliberately trying to make Free look bad thru the play calling, or so I thought, until the same shit happened with Glennon. And that’s why I wany Schiano & his crew gone. Stubborn, adherence to a pre-concieved game plan, no ability to adjust to anything not planned for, and Dictatorial control of every detail of life. All totally livable if they worked…just how long do we wait for them to work ? Are 4 wins, against weak teams, enough to convince the Glazers the winning is going to happen ? I guess we’ll see in a few days, won’t we ?
December 25th, 2013 at 6:03 pm
Keep Schiano because the last regime sucked it’s not a valid argument specially when he sucks even more than the “laughingstock” of the league… There is absolutely no reason why we should keep Schiano end of story.
December 25th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
” Schiano has done everything but win”. That’s like paying a hooker for a hug…
December 25th, 2013 at 7:20 pm
The saints bombed last season too, it’s proof that all the off the field drama definitely can have an impact on a team.
The way this season started for us was beyond horrible and to say that we still aren’t trying to rid ourselves of the venom Freeman and camp injected into our organization is quite naive.
Our season was doomed from the get go.
December 25th, 2013 at 7:22 pm
pick6 Says:
December 25th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
revis will pay off. thanks to some very good cap management by dom his deal won’t cripple the team. they should’ve spent money on a DE this offseason but looking ahead at least it helps next year’s cap. freeman contract off the books, and guys like goldson and nicks can be dumped with no cap hits in the next year or 2 if they don’t play up to their salary. dom was a total flop in his collaboration with raheem, but he crafts some of the cap friendliest contracts in the league, he does well in trades, and despite the debacle on sundays talent evaluation and development has seemingly improved. schiano just needs to get better on sundays, either by trusting good coordinators (not these ones) more or by doing a ton of brutal self scouting this offseason.
So :
1. How do we know Revis will pay off? Dude has been nothing worthy of what we paid for him and we made the deal and contract without seeing him prove he’s 100%. Also Idc if Dom made no guaranteed money. The first round pick cost us Vaccaro which brings to my next point.
2. Goldson isn’t even a top 10 safety. He’s horrid in coverage and only hurts our team with stupid penalties. Watched him get burned all last year. Only has happened this year and were on the hook for 8 and 6 mm guaranteed the next two seasons. Vaccaro would have been a 1st round pick and 4 year deal and is going to be a stud FS in this league. Now he’s in N.O. Awesome.
3. Dom has invested a 1st and 2 2nds in Clayborn , Bowers and price. All busts. Joe decides to throw schiano under the bus for not resigning Bennett. How does Dom not get included on that fault? What about handing wright all that money last year? Michael Clayton 10 mil guarantee ? Michael Koenen, an average punter almost 3.25 mil a year? Quincy black ? You name it. Same result. Bad decision.
December 25th, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Even tho I am in the fire the guy camp, I have to agree you make excellent points. However, there is one HUGE consideration. The QB position. I don’t want Greg picking a QB for his style of football and then leave the us the next year with a QB ill suited for the new coach. I want us to take a first round QB star ( no a Freeman type project ). Bottom line, I would not trust Schiano to pick a franchise QB for us. Its hard enough to find such a rarified creature as a Franchise QB…but Schiano? Meh.
December 25th, 2013 at 10:03 pm
^^^but you trust Dom?
December 26th, 2013 at 4:42 am
Everyone second guessing: Hire a NEW guy!!!! Inherit a new set of problems. Get ready…..
December 26th, 2013 at 9:29 am
It is very interesting to read these posts. It’s like deja vu. Dungy was too defensive minded and stubbornly never hired an OC, Gruden was an ego maniac who won a Super Bowl and took the Bucs to the playoffs a few times but he HAD to go too. Rah was a stop gap coach who was clearly in over his head and now we have Schiano, the dictatorial college coach who can’t coach in the NFL. So now we clamor for the great unknown, a new GM, a new coach, and new players just like Dungy’s era, Gruden’s era, Rah’s era, and now Schiano’s. We’re tired of losing but don’t want to give enough time to correct our mistakes. We don’t agree with the way a coach coaches so get rid of him. Our 3rd round QB pick struggles…get rid of him. GM doesn’t draft hall of famers every year…gone!
Bucs fans be careful what you wish for. You can keep hitting “reset” all you want, it won’t win you any more games. What do you think will happen with new offensive playbooks, defensive schemes, and another rookie QB? We’ve been down this road before, it’s called losing! And, we’ll be right back here lamenting this draft pick or that play call, calling for another coach’s head!
This guy deserves another chance, at least a year. If after 3 years he cannot turn it around, we look elsewhere. 2 years is simply not enough time to change an entire roster or endear a new philosophy. Change does not equal wins. Perseverance and stability are the ingredients of a winning franchise, something Bucs fans have not had in some time.
December 26th, 2013 at 9:54 am
Keep our coach for 2 reasons. He had the balls to fire freeman.
and look at Houston and Washington. Both teams who made the playoffs last year with their full team intact to start the year and both were a popular consensus to make the playoffs again and both with a worse record than the bucs.
It is very hard to win in the nfl.
December 26th, 2013 at 10:01 am
How anybody in their right mind would think the Bucs are going to improve under Schiano’s reign baffles me. The scheme and play calling are idiotic. Schiano has proven he will not change his system to compliment the players he has, so how is this team suppose to improve.
If you gave Schiano a prime rib to cook he would boil it! That’s the mentality he has.
December 26th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Key points here about the knee injuries and the “normal time” it takes to recover. It is unreasonable to expect a new coach, new staff and new playbook to click in two years, especially when you have your starting QB melt-down and then your elite running back and best O-lineman out for the year. Coach should get one more year!