Patience Is Key
October 14th, 2013
Joe knows Bucs fans are so enraged at Bucs commander Greg Schiano they want him to clean out his desk right now. This second.
Actually, some fans want Schiano’s access card deactivated and have an underling fetch Schiano’s belongings.
Joe understands these feelings. For the past day, Joe has tried to find a positive to releasing Schiano right away. Joe cannot find one positive in such a move.
First, Joe has documented that a coaching change now may just ruin a chance of a decent draft pick. Wins are meaningless now. Draft position is critical.
Then there is the coaching factor. Joe’s going to guess Schiano is not here in 2014. So let him play out the season.
Unloading Schiano now sends a terrible message to future coaching candidates. You think any decent coaching candidate, who will have several options to choose from, wants to work for an ownership group that has a quick hook? Of course not. Would you work for a company that has a history of unloading employees every few months? No one that isn’t desperate would. Agents would steer their clients clear of Team Glazer.
By letting Schiano finish the season, it demonstrates Team Glazer as patience. “Hey, we gave Greg the entire season to win ball games and show some progress, but it didn’t happen.”
(Yes, this may hack off fans, but guess what? Fans always come back when a team wins).
Now some fans will howl that by not releasing Schiano, it stunts a coaching search. That is patently absurd. Trust Joe, Team Glazer is methodical. They didn’t get to where they are by making rash decisions. Joe wouldn’t be shocked if Team Glazer has already done research and has a dossier of candidates they want to interview when the time is right.
And honestly, just what NFL team — or college for that matter — is going to grant one of their coaches the opportunity to interview for another job … in October!?
The answer would be none.
Joe understands totally why Bucs fans want to launch Schiano now. But the NFL is not baseball or hockey. There is nothing positive to accomplish by letting Schiano go five weeks into the season, or 10 weeks for that matter.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
0-5 aside Shciano should be fired for the joke that this team has become off the field.
That has nothing to do with patience.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
The emotion side says you’re wrong. The common sense side says you’re right.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
The problem is fans had a whole lot of hope going in to the year, but when the team has dominated the headlines for all the crazy organizational stuff and no wins to this point, patience was last year. We were duped, Schiano is trying to rebuild a team that he wants, kinda like his coaching staff. Quandary is this, if he starts winning, we gotta keep him even after this circus of a year.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
“You think any decent coaching candidate, who will have several options to choose from, wants to work for an ownership group that has a quick hook?”
I dont think 1-11 or watever it is constitutes a quick hook.
The only message that would send is that you’d better know what the F&*% you’re doing because this clown just wasted everyone’s time for 2 years.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
what kind of message does 0-16 send ?
October 14th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
That’s what my doctor said. Patients are key.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Joe, buddy, you need to lay off the booze for a few days and reevaluate your position here. If any coaching candidate were to look at the Bucs’ current situation and think a change isn’t in order, then that coach shouldn’t be on our sidelines to begin with as their expectations of winning football obviously aren’t high enough.
After we go 0-7, a change should be made. 0-5 may be too early, but we’re about to drop 3 division games, and then it’s time for a change and to get the search going for a quality candidate sooner than later so we don’t have to settle as the next season looms closer and closer.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
d-money Says:
October 14th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
I dont think 1-11 or watever it is constitutes a quick hook.
This. It would be a quick hook if we were still losing but were showing definite signs of improvement (see Dungy’s early career here). Besides, I think a potential coach would look at all the extra-curricular problems going on and point to that as the reason for Schiano getting fired, not that he didn’t instantly turn the team around.
The real reason for not firing him now is to wait for the various investigations to pan out. If Schiano is found at fault in either of him, they can fire him for cause and not owe him a dime left on his contract.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
“Trust Joe, Team Glazer is methodical. They didn’t get to where they are by making rash decisions.”
Hey Joe – first of all, the Glazers (son’s now running the team) got to where they are by being the son of daddy glazer who was calling the shots while the BUCS were relevant. Just saying.
Brian and Joel, have proven that they dont make rash decisions, just bad ones. Raheem, Schiano, build through the draft, cut the payroll to nothing for four straight years then wonder why we have no depth.
I am a die hard BUCS fan but when the Glazers boys bring in a “proven” winning coach at the professional level, wake me up. Then I’ll be happy to give them credit for something with this team. Right now they get credit for being born into a pretty choice spot.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Eh, the weather is too nice right now. I’m setting the DVR. If they play well enough to make it worth my time, I will go back and watch. Besides, I’m scared I’m going to break the remote control.
I can still watch Manatee High and FSU on Fridays and Saturdays. Hopefully they put it together, sooner rather than later.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:16 pm
Unfortunately for the fans’ emotional state Joe is right on this one. The Glazers have to think about the big picture, not just the heat of the moment. Future coaching candidates are watching this situation, and if ownership and/or management overreacts and gives in to the lynch mob it will reflect very poorly on the Bucs and diminish their chances of ever luring a top-notch coach to Tampa. Fans need to sit back and let this play out as it should and stop acting like children stomping their feet demanding they get their way. Stop the emotional reactions and start thinking logically.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
This isn’t necessarily true Joe. Season tickets for the Bucs started becoming available for the 2009 season after the team posted back to back 9-7 seasons. The Bucs had a winning season in 2010 but that didn’t translate to ticket sales. There used to be a waiting list of over 100,000 for season tickets.
The fans haven’t been coming back since Gruden last coached.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Glazers can be rash.
See the half day it took to fire chucky and hire a new GM and Head Coach. That all developed in a manner of weeks after the 9-3 start, and because great players like Michael Clayton complained.
Then the methodical Glazer method led to this current insanity.
What they really need is some sort of interim GM to come in for the rest of the season and guide them through to next year. An adviser. A respected figure of some sort.
Show Dom the door. No worries about problems of not giving him enough time.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Awesome draft pick! That is a mega bonus.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Thanks Joe for laying that out for some of the fans. You did a MUCH better job than I was doing trying to put it into perspective. As I see no benefit at all to getting rid of him now. Your points are spot on, especially for hiring possible future candidates for the job. It would send a TERRIBLE message to them. It’s a win-win situation for Bucs fans. If the team keeps losing the Bucs get a higher pick and a new coach at the end of the season. If Shiano somehow (I doubt it though) turns this thing around and they start to win some games this season, that will still satisfy some of the fan base like myself. So it’s a win-win for all fans alike. If it gets fixed then great, if not then he’s gone and they get a higher pick plus a new coach.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Joel Glazer was the one who got Chucky.
Hope you enjoyed your nap.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
“awesome draft pick that is a mega bonus” that will just be wasted by these clowns
October 14th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Joe is sober and there is no need to reevaluate. Coaches look at stability and chance to win. A high first round draft pick is a bonus.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
What exactly has “Team Glazer” done correctly since the firing of Jon Gruden?
What?
Please name one single positive that relates to this team winning games?
Just One!
So Joe, you’re expecting them to suddenly start making good decisions about hiring good football people to run this team?
Why?
October 14th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
Fair enough, my bad then, just haven’t like the direction of the team for some some some time and they have been in charge…right?
Btw – it wasn’t a nap, it was an alcohol induced coma to cope with being surrounded by eagles fans gloating in my face yesterday.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
The positive in relieving Schiano immediately is that this will give Bucs the first opportunity to interview, consult and hire Lovie Smith or Bill Cowher. This will allow Smith or Cowher to get dialed in and analyze the team thoroughly during the season. Then they can hit the ground running in 2014 offseason.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:28 pm
I keep expecting Cowher to end up in NY or Charlotte. I just don’t think he wants to be in Tampa (if he chooses to coach again).
Of the coordinators, Mike Zimmer is my first thought, but, I haven’t really considered everyone that thoroughly.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Is Eddie DeBartolo still wanting to buy the team? Would the NFL allow it by now? It’s been long enough.
That would be the actual best case scenario. It would all flow down from there.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
The only stability any coach in the NFL has is if they’re winning. Period.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
I just don’t see how Raheem and Schiano are better than Gruden. How did we even get to this point. The owners are to blame if you ask me, so I don’t trust their judgement in picking a new HC.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
A huge problem is that the Bucs are not the Glazer boys’ top priority; rather, Man U is their focus. The franchise’s decline into mediocrity and their purchase of MU is not a coincidence. Look how MU behaves as an organization vs. the Bucs. MU acts like the Bucs used to. Why? MU does not reach to hire inexperienced, unqualified people to run its operations, yet the Bucs did three times with Dominick, Morris, and Schiano. You can hire the best coach available and it is not going to work if the organization lacks a solid operational and strategic planning foundation. Remember the Rays and Pinella before Sternberg. The difference here is that the Glazers can do it. They just cannot be in two places at once. They need to do more than hire a new coach and GM. They need to recommit themselves to the Bucs.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Freeman was his excuse card
And he played it to early
Fire him now before he does
More damage
October 14th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
If were so obviously chuck full of talent one would think a great coach would recognize that and want to come. Should be lining up chomping at the bit.
Immensely talented it has been said. All offseason. Any disagreement and you were an idiot.
Or, maybe that is a pipe dream too?
October 14th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
“a coaching change now may just ruin a chance of a decent draft pick. Wins are meaningless now.” With all due respect Joe, that’s practically saying that the Bucs should tank it. No fan wants to waste their hard earned money on a ticket to go see their team “play” for a draft pick, and even less will want to watch it on TV, especially now that every game will be televised, and for what? So you’re saying that Schiano gives us the best chance to lose and secure a top draft pick rather than an interim? And for who, Teddy freakin’ Bridgewater? The 2014 draft is going to be QB rich. Not just Teddy, but QB’s like Johnny Manziel, Aaron Murray, Zack Mettenberger, and A.J McCarron. The Bucs can go interim and still lose for a draft pick, but if they win a few games they will not only still have a decent draft pick, they will have a lot of QB depth in the draft and some momentum going into the 2014. Like someone said earlier those “meaningless” wins in 2009 gave the Bucs confidence in the rookie Josh Freeman who would help lead the Young Bucs to 10 wins the next season, and they still got to draft future Pro-Bowler Gerald McCoy even though they didn’t get Ndamukong Suh. We all know Schiano will not be here next year and there’s still the off-chance he wins a few games and “ruins a chance at a decent draft pick”.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
BUCFAN – Agree with you half way. Dont think Man U is getting in the way “NOW” because they are totally willing to open the purse strings lately. If anything, they have just made consitent bad calls as to who they have chosen to give the keys to. They tried to get Chip Kelly who would have cost a fortune. I dont think its a money thing anymore, just bad judgement.
Sternberg has been a Jerk of a owner for most of the time. Friedman and Maddon on the other hand have been the real deal…..
October 14th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
There is only one problem with letting Schiano finish out the season & its the same problem we had with Freeman…
What if he starts winning?….then what do you do?….Fans hate you…but what if??
Thats why Freeman didn’t get a shot at AZ….if he won….what if?
Well Greg…you won 4 out of your last 6 and the team is with you…but since the fans hate you….you’re fired!!!
October 14th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
I do not care about draft position I want to win each game we play. I don’t think at this point Schiano gives us the best chance to do that. I don’t think it sends a bad message to future head coach candidates. They’re probably looking at our situation thinking the same thing.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Was listening to sports radio here in the DC area and they suggested an approach that I think we would do well to adopt. Treat the rest of the season asa long stretch of preseason games. Wins don’t matter. From now on we’re looking to develop or young quarterback and sort out the people we have who will be playing for us next year
October 14th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Jesus Joe you waddle back and forth worst than a 4 year old trying to pick out a Halloween costume!! Fire this guy! Draft position?! Really? so keeping him so we can continue to tank is a philosophy?! Thank god you are not ownership. This roster is talented and severely UNDERACHIEVING, that is a direct reflection on coaching and strategy. Time to go. It’s not a quick hook it’s appeasing fans, the people that matter, not F*ing draft position. We were 6-4 until teams started figuring us out and there has not been any change we continue to do the same crap and that is terrible!! I wish we didn’t have to fire Schiano, but we do!! He is not going to change his ways he has run a team with playoff ambitions into the ground!! We use a 16 million dollar corner in zone 95% of the time, and I’m not expert but listening to Ronde call the game he kept saying Revis is in some sort of zone coverage. This has got to STOP and you got to stop waddling its disgusting!
If Joe wants to play along, and Joe appreciates your passion, then you don’t make a midseason switch unless you have a better candidate. Wannstedt and Sullivan are not it. It’s not like the Bucs have quit on Schiano this season. That would be a different animal. –Joe
October 14th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
I think you let him finish so that way I can spend my Sundays doing something else.
if there was a new coach, I might be inclined to watch.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
@joe Where was your and the dogs outrage when Rha was loosing? Yes Schiano is down and easy to be kicked and piled on. I just think it could get interesting who all might get deposed under oath as this investigation into the leak of medical info gets going. Where is the outrage over Banks, Taleabs information getting out. Are we being selective because of josh? in my book this season is on freeman and the dog slamming our team repeatedly and viciously. This of course is my opinion. Joe you are better than that even though I know you have to get along with dog.
Please get real. Joe was appalled by the tank job under the Raheem regime. Joe wrote about it daily, including the continued starting job kept by serial loafer Sean Jones, the gifting of a starting gig to sackless Kyle Moore, Raheem saying he would “fix” Sabby the Goat but that never happened and they kept trotting him out on the field. Must Joe go on? Joe begged for the Bucs to hire a consultant to help Raheem because the guy was overmatched and unable to figure out why his teams started slower than three-legged turtles. Joe wrote repeatedly that the stupidity of the Benn’d around play fell on Raheem’s lap. Joe could go on and on. –Joe.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:55 pm
wins are never meaningless
October 14th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Unfortunately draft spots in the top 10 matter quite a bit. Meaningless wins dont.
See Joe Thomas & Calvin Johnson.
There are good players, game changers and franchise builders.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
OK…let me ask this…..what is your biggest fear keepiing Schiano?
Losing the team?
Schiano winning some games and the Glazers keeping him for another season?
I think I know the answer…..
October 14th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
The Eagles once won 2 “meaningless” games at the end of a 2-12 season. It allowed the Bills to get in front of them in the draft.
Guess who they picked?
OJ Simpson.
Wins might not be “meaningless” but they can be f***ing damaging.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Thank you Espo for an opinion that I share. I think it’s far more important for the psyche of the entire team and its dwindling fan base to experience something positive on which to build before this 2013 season is behind us. I’m certainly not concerned now about having the first pick or the fifth pick in the 2014 Draft. That is no guarantee. We Bucs fans have had a lot of “saviors” in our sights over the years only to be disappointed again and again. If Schiano is fired now at least we can have some satisfaction that justice was served immediately rather than have him sit on death row for 11 more games. If the interim coach wins a few games it would prove our point as to whose head the hat of blame rests. Don’t let the rhetoric fool you. Players stood behind Richard Williamson too. Time to go Schiano.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Joe I know you’ve been around since the old days. So tell me, what did those high draft picks do to 14 years of losing? The draft is no absolute. Winning is absolute. It goes in record books. It brings fans to the stadium so we don’t have green Sundays you hate. Trust me, a higher draft pick in 97 would have done no good compared to those late season wins. Even the late season wins of 09 sparked the 10-6 season. What happened after that was another story. I don’t see a future coach turned off by a mid season fire. Let’s go back and look at some
October 14th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Id frog march Schiano and Dom out, call in the Hazmat team to fumigate the place, and not allow any relative of theirs in the building that is within one degree of consanguinity.
let Wannstedt coach, he wont win a game. Schiano is following his formula anyhow.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Right again TBBF, on fire!
October 14th, 2013 at 2:27 pm
SCKelly22,
We are on the same page. I don’t think it is a money thing. Throwing money at the problem wouldn’t help anyway without the right management. See Redskins, US government. I believe their poor judgment and bad decision-making stems in part from their lack of total focus on the Bucs. This franchise did well for a long time because they put their total energies into the team AND they had someone running it who loved the team and cared for it as much they did in Rich McKay. If they want to be part timers then they need some experienced, successful NFL executive talent to run things. Does anyone here believe DeBartolo would hire Raheem, Schiano, or Dominick?
October 14th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
@Eric – You realize Wannstedt is a colorful, motivational type guy who had four winning seasons in Miami with Jay Fiedler. No, he’s not a great coach and he’ll never win a Super Bowl, but the Bucs don’t need that potential mess and possibly fans calling for Wannstedt to be hired after a salvaged second half.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:31 pm
I kind of agree with Joe better to let things play out or if a coaching change is made have Wannstadt be the interim coach rather than rush and hire a coach now who will bring in a new “system” for everyone to learn. Best to do that after this season is over when things cool down and then do a methodical search for an experienced nfl coach. It’s painful but it might be the best course of action. If a new coach is brought in at the end of the season he can then make whatever player changes he wants far more easily than he could now in mid season and then implement a new “system” for everyone to learn.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
@ PR Buc Fan
Hatred usually comes from fear….and what do those who hate fear the most…..possible success….
I’m not saying it will happen…but most want to drive a stake through the heart to make sure it doesn’t.
I know you know exactly what I’m talking about with Freeman…..inconsistancy meant winning sometimes…and they didn’t want that.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
I was critisised on a post yesterday about a possible “silver lining” with MW19s absense…..and that was the additional plays for perhaps Owusu, Underwood, Page & Wright….
As it turned out….there was….for Wright & Owusu….but Underwood disn’t do well…even that may provide some benefit.
I agreee that once the season is lost, it is time to develop younger players….and I think that is already starting to happen. At least now when we have “rookie” mistakes from Banks, Glennon & Co. they won’t hurt our playoff chances.
We need a good mixture of youth from the draft (cheap) and FAs to make our cap work.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
@TBBF
I hear ya man, be careful now because when they have nothing else to throw at you they start making up stuff you have said and call you “inconsistent”.
It’s all good though, like you said, “I know you know exactly what I’m talking about”.. I know i’ve always been steady in my views and I have posters like you hear to vouch it lol.
Not to mention the archives 😉
October 14th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
I have been a fan since the 80’s and I must say its time for change but not just a coach, the GM too.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:40 pm
@since 76
Heck no. That’s why I brought him up earlier. A committed owner does make a difference. Look at the Colts. Irsay may be a lush, but, he is committed to that team. The Colts had a one season turnaround. One!!! It doesn’t 5 years to rebuild.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Fire him now, don’t replace him. Give it over internally on an interim basis for the remainder of the season. Begin the process of change now, start interviews with guys that are available. Draft pick would be great, but we could still get a good pick, better coach, etc with an interim coach now, but it shows the fans that they’re doing what’s needed.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
And I can safely can add, never, since I’ve been following this team since week 2 of 1979, have I ever seen so many local writers calling for the coaches head.
Another point. What kind of free agent would want to go to a team with a 2-14 record
October 14th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
BUCFAN…..Probably not. I am still on the fence with Dom though. His track record is not good. And he has made some horrible mistakes, michael clayton contract, plenty of missed draft picks, michael bennet leaving. He has done some good things also, so I am slightly on the fence with him…still. Was his biggest fan coming into the season but lack of depth at key positions falls to him and unfortunately its glaring….
October 14th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
Heres an idea….2 of our first picks for oline, and receiver. 3rd pick o line. 4th pick for the next blocking TE available (or sign Jimmy Graham). Build up for drafting Jameis Winston in 2015!
October 14th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
@ PR
I’ve been through the “wife wars” with my Bucs…she’s always on me about how much time I have spent with “losers”….I told her that “I spend time with winners too….like her”….that usually shuts her up.
Nobody likes losing….so I hang onto hope longer than most…This Sunday, I pretty much have let go of hopes for Schiano…they’ve turned to prayers only. As long as he is coach and a player (like Freeman) or Talib or Blount or Wright is on the team…I hope they succeed. That’s just the way I proceed in this life. “For better or worse, till death do us part”
October 14th, 2013 at 2:46 pm
jbskiff Says:
@joe Where was your and the dogs outrage when Rha was loosing? Yes Schiano is down and easy to be kicked and piled on. I just think it could get interesting who all might get deposed under oath as this investigation into the leak of medical info gets going. Where is the outrage over Banks, Taleabs information getting out. Are we being selective because of josh? in my book this season is on freeman and the dog slamming our team repeatedly and viciously. This of course is my opinion. Joe you are better than that even though I know you have to get along with dog.
————————————————————————————-
No this season is not on Freeman; he was released and has moved on. Schiano said “Glennon gives us the best chance to win” That hasn’t been the case so far. Besides, Freeman didn’t commit the personal foul penalty in the closing seconds of the Jets game; he didn’t make bad coaching decisions towards the end of the Saints game and he didn’t drop 3 sure TD passes in the Patriots game. This season is on Schiano. He has been given more talent than his predecessor and has done less with it.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
The longer you keep bad leaders, managers or employees in place the more damage you do to the organization. The Glazers opened their wallets to upgrade the team and instead seen the team deteriorate. It shouldn’t be long before those responsible start to walk the plank.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
Yea, this Sunday did it for me as far as Schiano goes as well.
I still say let the season play out and move on from there.
Unless some of this media garbage about Schiano is ever validated such as the leak claim. If that ever happens, can him quickly, otherwise let the season play out.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
I’d rather see 11 wins with a new coach than pine away for a high draft pick. Why do you watch football anyway? Why not just tune in come January and see if they are in the playoffs, cause it seems that’s all you care about.
Most likely Glazers will force Schiano to fire O/C Sullivan. They tried to enforce that with Dungy, and if there’s one thing the Glazers crave more than anything since they’ve owned the team, it’s a top-ranked offense. They pine for it.
The important thing to remember is that they rushed the Raheem decision, and then in penance they spent a lot of their own personal time trying to find the replacement. After interviewing countless coaches, they made the decision to go with Schiano. Firing Schiano now would be an indictment of their OWN decision-making abilities, and that is tough for any human being to accept.
So firing the O/C as a proxy for the head coach is a way they can save face. And it worked miracles in Baltimore last year.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
Good points Joe.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Joe
What do you think about the positive I found in releasing Schiano immediately?
October 14th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
I just don’t think keeping Schiano is the best way to go. The guy is a hypocrite. He raves about discipline, yet he has one of the most undisciplined teams in the NFL, always committing dumb penalties. He called Josh Freeman his starting QB, yet 2 days later he benches him (not questioning the benching, just saying that Schiano went back on his word). Michael Bennett didn’t even want to be here anymore. And just like everybody said with Josh Freeman, Schiano has all these “toys” to help him win games, yet he is 0-5 this season and 7-14 overall and has brought this team into a nosedive. I don’t agree with tanking it, especially if all we are going to do is draft Teddy Bridgewater. As I said earlier, there is a lot of QB depth in the draft and even if we win some games and don’t get the No. 1 or 2 overall pick we can have momentum and confidence heading into the 2014 season and still grab a QB, much like how the Bucs won 3 games in the second half with Josh Freeman and still got a Pro-Bowler out of GMC even if they didn’t get Ndamukong Suh, then won 10 games the next season.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
“Most likely Glazers will force Schiano to fire O/C Sullivan. They tried to enforce that with Dungy, and if there’s one thing the Glazers crave more than anything since they’ve owned the team, it’s a top-ranked offense. They pine for it.
The important thing to remember is that they rushed the Raheem decision, and then in penance they spent a lot of their own personal time trying to find the replacement. After interviewing countless coaches, they made the decision to go with Schiano. Firing Schiano now would be an indictment of their OWN decision-making abilities, and that is tough for any human being to accept.
So firing the O/C as a proxy for the head coach is a way they can save face. And it worked miracles in Baltimore last year.”
Great points
October 14th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
Outrageous.
It is outrageous to even consider keeping Schiano at this point. An interim coach ought to be appointed just out of principle. Don’t give this man even one more day to damage this team.
October 14th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
And twice in one day JBF calls for a tank job.
“First, Joe has documented that a coaching change now may just ruin a chance of a decent draft pick. Wins are meaningless now. Draft position is critical.”
October 14th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Bucs problems in order.imo
Head coach/G.M
O.C
O line
The way we use Revis
Q.B(rookie)
October 14th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
@ Zam
” Firing Schiano now would be an indictment of their OWN decision-making abilities, and that is tough for any human being to accept”
I agree entirely….and to do it publicly is even more difficult…and when you are a billionaire….almost impossible.
I think that same thing plays out with draft picks & GMs/Coaches….they are reluctant to pull the plug on a draft pick that doesn’t turn out…in our case….Myron & Stocker…perhaps Tandy is next.
October 14th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
There is no positive in releasing Schiano now. If you think a new coach is going to come in and we are immediately going to start winning you are delusional. I’ve seen Doug Martin searching for a hole to run through for 5 games. I’ve seen our O-line getting pushed into the backfield constantly. That’s not ‘scheme’, that’s not coaching….that’s a bunch of highly paid players that were supposed to be some of the best O-linemen in the NFL just not doing their job. There was nothing wrong with our game plan Sunday. Schiano and Sullivan didn’t get flags thrown on them for holding after every crucial first down. We were moving the ball on Philly and penalties killed us as well as the O-line not getting holes opened up for Martin. Thank God Freeman wasn’t in there or we’d have gotten shut out. Glennon did a heck of a job getting us out of long yardage situations all day but you can only do so much.
And the defense? Banks just got schooled. Our D-line got spanked by a good O-line. Coaching didn’t lose that game. We just have players that cannot execute for a full 60 minutes. Good players rarely make mistakes in critical situations. Our players seem to pick critical situations to make mistakes. At what point are players accountable for their play in a game they are getting paid a fortune to play?
October 14th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Maybe you’re right, Joe. I’ve gone from mad….to sad….to pretty much apathetic. Schiano is a lot like MRSA, however. The longer they wait to rid OBP of him the more potential damage he’ll do. Watching them play relaxed and balls out for Wanny would be much more enjoyable at this point IMO.
October 14th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
I want Schiano (& Dominik) gone as much as the next guy. But at this point we need to lose as many games as possible. We need a top 3 pick and we need to draft a real franchise QB, something the Bucs have NEVER had.
Look at the Colts a few years ago when they lost all of those games after Manning’s surgery. Now they have Andrew Luck and are on their way to the playoffs again. We need to take it on the chin this year so the next ten years make us playoff and hopefully, Super Bowl contenders.
We don’t need to rock the boat by firing Schiano now and getting the players excited and maybe playing better.
Also all of the other points Joe made about bringing in a new coach make sense as well. Let Schiano hang himself the rest of this season, get a nice draft pick, and have an attractive job for a good coach.
We gotta play the long-term game here. This season is lost. So for the rest of the season we should be big fans of whoever is playing against the Bucs, the Jaguars and the Giants.
October 14th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
I will never hope for the Bucs to lose. That creates a culture of losing and that is hard to break out of. You lose enough games it’s hard to believe you can win. No. We need to win and we need to win as many as we can. The more games we win and the more this team unifies and plays good football the less we need a high draft pick.
October 14th, 2013 at 4:04 pm
I don’t buy that for one second that it is bad to fire someone mid season. That is, if the coach is a cancer like Schiano. So many bad things can happen from losing, but so many more bad things can happen when losing and the coach is a cancer. First of all, players naturally start to tune the coach out (which I suspect is already happening). Second, players start being undisciplined and trying to do too much (check). Third, the locker room becomes divided, which can lead to problems even after the coach has gone. Also, we end up getting rid of players that really can play, due to the fact that they aren’t playing up to their potential for the problems previously mentioned. We don’t really know how good some of these guys really are, because they play 1960s Big East football. Between Raheem and Schiano, they’ve never been coached. Imagine if we actually let Revis play press man coverage (you know, like what EJ Biggers did last year virtually every snap)? Imagine if McCoy didn’t have to run stupid stunts every other play. Imagine if we didn’t hold up a sign on first down that we are giving the ball to Doug up the middle. Imagine if Glennon actually had a check down route on every play. Let’s see what we have before we get rid of everyone. Get rid of the dictator before he screws us up even worse than we already are.
I hate the idea of losing to get a better draft pick. I’m tired of that crap. How has that worked for us? When was the last time NE had the #1 pick? How about Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Denver, or the Giants? Funny they seem to usually be ok. Here’s a novel concept: scout well and draft well no matter where you pick. Coach your players up. Tanking almost never works, and it has never worked for us. Win as many games as you can and everything will work out fine. That is, as soon as you get rid of the cancer.
October 14th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
If we get the #1 pick and draft Bridgewater, who’s to say he’s going to be any good? He struggled against Rutgers. Who’s to say Johnny Football can endure the hits of an NFL player (he’s the same size as Michael Vick and we all know how that has worked out)? There is very rarely a sure thing in the draft, so why put fans and players through misery just to take a chance on someone you “think” is going to be good. Fact is, picking early like that is easy. The pick is generally made for you by the “experts”, and even partially by the fans. It doesn’t matter who gets to pick in the top 5, we all pretty much know exactly who is going to be picked. It just doesn’t always work out that well. In fact, it normally doesn’t. For every Andrew Luck, there are Vince Youngs and Matt Leinarts. For every RG3, there’s a Jamarcus Russell. You just never know. Scout, do your job, and put some freaking W’s in the books. The mentality of lose to get better is a loser mentality, and you’re not going to be rewarded for it.
October 14th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
@Hawaiian
Agree on the draft. There are no Luck’s this year. He was the only automatic guy in a long time.
October 14th, 2013 at 4:41 pm
What do you guys think of Stephen Morris?
I think he will be special in this league.
He can move, but he is a passer first and foremost.
He isn’t as big a name as some but the kid can ball out.
Anyone see where he ranks on the QB board?
October 14th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
@PR
I’m a Nole but, I can give Canes some love (still like Mike James, Duke is a STUD). But, I don’t find Morris to be elite. But, he’s a good passer, quite good. But I’m not sure if he’s a long term NFL starter. He could certainly develop, but, that can be said about many guys.
I wish this were happening one year later. I’m drinking the Jameis Winston koolaid big time. He has that rare field vision that so many QBs do not. FSU has had a quite a few highly touted guys over the years. But, this is the first guy to make me a believer in a LONG time. He can see the WHOLE field.
October 14th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
@PR – but, I do like Morris. I just wouldn’t consider him a lock. Luck was the only lock that’s come about recently in the drafts.
October 14th, 2013 at 5:21 pm
Excellent points Hawaiian.
October 14th, 2013 at 5:37 pm
all the winning coaches were fired from here wow
October 14th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
Joe….we need to hear from the “third arrow” in the “driving traffic to JBF quiver”…..Schiano, Freeman & Shaun King…
I’m sure Shaun has some thought he can share!!!!
“Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 11 or fewer points.”
October 14th, 2013 at 5:54 pm
After further reviewing this, there is some evidence to show Joe’s position has some validity. I just dug into the numbers and posted evidence on my site.
But to me its just a close call at best, both sides have evidence. It still comes down to the question…win? or Draft?
Do you Fire Schiano like my good buddy BucsFanLostInIowa and I both want to (Whoda thought) or keep him?
I say the wins stay on the Books, and make you feel good now for sure. The draft is not an exact science. The Bucs have had oh so many top 3 draft picks, but oh so few wins in its existence
October 14th, 2013 at 6:02 pm
@ODB
Yea Duke is a STUD, and man boy did you guys score bif in Winston!
I hear ya man, yea he would be more under the radar than anything.
It will be interesting to see how Morris develops.
I can’t wait for us to play FSU, should be an explosive game!!!
October 14th, 2013 at 6:05 pm
the draft means nothing if he the coach stays there is not enough offensive weapons on this team and forget about any free agents coming here with this guy in charge so you have to work the best coaches available while keeping this guy for the rest of this year somebody will want this job there is a lot of talent here and were not far off so keep this guy the rest of the year and work the backdoors of all the sportscaster out there that would take this job and they are there just have to use the right lotion
October 14th, 2013 at 6:15 pm
Joe’s assessment is correct, outside of pleasing the horde of angry fans, there is absolutely no benefit and firing him before the season is finished, unfortunately.
October 14th, 2013 at 6:59 pm
Joe, you make a very strong case, and I agree with you. Finishing out this horrid season does make sense. But I still think you are wrong – I think we will have a new head coach before the end of the season.
October 14th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
My patience is waring out for sure
…but
I am keeping the faith and battling the opposing teams fans in the stadium, giving them all I can with my Bucs support. The players hear the crowd, they feed off of it. Not only is there a battle on the field, but there is a battle in the stands as well. Get off of your rear ends and stand up and cheer, quit your belly aching “Freeman coming off the field after 3 and out” type of behavior.
October 14th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Fans don’t drive decisions. Owners will evaluate progress at the end of the year and if they see promise they will give Schiano another year.
October 14th, 2013 at 10:10 pm
coach Schiano should have been gone yesterday! With the talent on this team ,he is the worst ever. Mr. Schiano has more coaches working for him and they still can’t make game day adjustments. I am sick of paying for season tkts and hear his bs after every loss..
October 14th, 2013 at 10:50 pm
Fans absolutely do drive decisions, if there are no fans in the Ray Jay (unless you play Philly and N.O every home game and have the visiting fans sell out your house) for game day, then the product is going to fail (much like no customers at a business).
Sure hope progress will be made, starting all over is no cake walk either.
October 15th, 2013 at 1:13 am
“Fans don’t drive decisions.”
——-
In the real world, they absolutely do. Even the Glazers said as much when they let go of Chucky. This is a business. Don’t ever forget that.
October 15th, 2013 at 3:34 am
SCKELLY22- Totally agree. Could not agree more. I am both a die hard Bucs fan and Man U fan…. they have done the same things with both teams. Let the best and most expensive talent go, hire a cheap and unproven coach, make bad personnel decisions, and hire front office execs that they have promoted through the ranks. Experience is important, paramount even. From our ownership (the real savvy decision-maker no longer steers the ship, the sons who have earned nothing in their lives do), to our GM (scout), to our head coaches (last 2 head coaches), to our O-coordinator (QB coach for Eli when he won superbowls after going 9-7 during the regular season). Eli’s QB play has NEVER been consistent, just clutch in the postseason….. Literally every single decision they make and how they come to those decisions is incorrect and done happhazardly. No tact, no experience. If I was a billionaire and wanted Chip Kelly as my head coach, I would make him an offer he couldn’t refuse. The Glazers have totally failed fans of the teams they control.