Hope For The Bucs’ Running Game
October 5th, 2013
Yes, Doug Martin has struggled this season. Martin looks to have the same burst and drive he had last year, but the holes haven’t been there.
It’s interesting to note that two Bucs opponents in September, the Cardinals and Jets, are tied for the NFL’s top ranking in yards allowed per carry. Both only give up a stunning 3.0 yards a handoff. That’s some serous run defense. Keep in mind the Bucs’ defense led the NFL allowing 3.5 yards per carry in 2012.
So perhaps the Bucs have simply plowed into a couple of stout run defenses and inevitably will bounce out of their rushing funk?
Joe realizes it’s not that simple, but the numbers are worth noting.
Greg Schiano went of his way this week to talk about how he’s not naïve to the fact that the Bucs’ offensive line is still gelling as Carl Nicks and Davin Joseph had very little preseason work. Joe buys that to a point, but the Bucs had backups step in and perform mightily in 2012 and in 2010 (James Lee, and rookies Derek Hardman and Ted Larsen), guys who had nowhere near the talent of Nicks and Joseph. So it’s really been enough time, especially after bye week, for Joseph and Nicks to bounce back to their superstar forms.
Even with opponents inevitably loading the box against the Bucs to dare Mike Glennon to beat them, Joe believes there’s a lot of hope for the Bucs’ running game. The challenge lies with Mike Sullivan to stay unpredictable.
October 5th, 2013 at 10:05 am
Hahahaha Sullivan unpredictable.
October 5th, 2013 at 10:09 am
Glad u said that Joe! This O is as predictable as butter on crab! I really hope we open things up! It’s just a hope tho……..
October 5th, 2013 at 10:31 am
A couple of added points…
Year 2 is usually tougher for rookie RBs because defenses are on notice.
We didn’t have Lorig for Game 1
As far as predicitability…I would rather see a 2 back set with Demps occaisionally…I know he can’t block…but I think defenses would have a difficult time reading our play….getting either Martin or Demps outside….or even Martin up the middle against less of a stacked box.
We have been very predictable on 1st down particularly.
Lets take some heat off Glennon and let him throw early and often.
An inteception way down the field on 3rd down is almost as good as a punt….
October 5th, 2013 at 10:40 am
@TBBF:
2 Back sets!!! Yes! At this point, anything to change it up. This run, run, run, caveman-heave-ball-50yards isn’t cutting it.
We need more short yardage passes on 1st down. Screens, crossing routes, something, anything to throw these defenses off balance.
Glennon has a good arm and a VERY FAST release. I liked what I saw last week from him. It isn’t his fault the coaching staff didn’t adjust and allowed the pressure to continue to build on him. IMHO he is as good or better than Josh. Doesn’t look scared to be there and makes much faster decisions.
Those first three games, I was constantly yelling at the screen for Josh to throw it away. UNACCEPTABLE for a 1st round QB in his 5th year!!!! I don’t recall once having to yell at Glennon, a 3rd round rookie.
We have a good D and the potential is there to beat almost any team on the league. We man handled the Saints most all of that game but look at what the Saints have done to everyone else. They were lucky to get that win from us.
We are 0-0 in a 12 week season. I think we can end it 9-3.
GO BUCS!!!
October 5th, 2013 at 10:45 am
TB I’ve been saying that 2 all my friends! I’m thinking full house sets, some screens….. Open things up! Run,run,pass isn’t working. I was never high on Free, but this could be the judgement point!
October 5th, 2013 at 10:47 am
Lol 9-7???? Yeah right. That’d be a miracle
October 5th, 2013 at 10:49 am
Nicks was damaged goods when he left the Saints. Thats why they let him go. Joseph is playing like crap and may never be the same. Those two are overpaid and underperforming.
October 5th, 2013 at 10:51 am
“…The challenge lies with Mike Sullivan to stay unpredictable.”
Isn’t that the problem? We are predictable. As has been pointed out, endlessly, and even by our past coach’s, the Bucs offense was awesome at one point last year, until the other 31 defenses figured it out. We never adjusted/countered what we saw on Sunday.
I was/am all in favor of seeing what Glennon has, but it was not ALL Free’s fault. Shiano has done a great job with the D, but why is the offense so bad we are 0-4, and Payton Manning is AVERAGING more touchdowns then the Bucs have scored in all 4 games?
October 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am
Yes Walter, that would be a miracle. I tend to lean on the hopefully side until all hope is lost though. I won’t hold it against your for being a Negative Nancy.
October 5th, 2013 at 10:56 am
Joe said “Keep in mind the Bucs’ defense led the NFL allowing 3.5 yards per carry in 2012.”
Teams didn’t have to run on us when we had the worts pass defense. Misleading stats joe.
Just read on ESPN that Martin is on pace to run 400 times this year. The record is 416. Schiano will run his bell cow to the ground. Caddy style. Enjoy your 5 year nfl carreer Martin.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am
This OL is under performing and no its too late to fix it. No need to make excuses or justify the lack of production.
We have the second strongest schedule for the rest of the year…I am thinking 2 maybe 3 wins max.
Clean house this summer….new GM and new HC.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:05 am
The few times we have dumped to Lorig he had gotten yardage.
I’m not all about comparing Glennon to Freeman but on one issue…short passing Gleenon is superior.
I think Sully has gotten the message…I would be astounded if he comes out the same way after the bye.
Blame who you want but s)it flows down hill. Sully will get the ax first if this keeps happening. (you heard it here)
October 5th, 2013 at 11:07 am
If the coaching staff did not trust Freeman to perform and set the plays up accordingly, hopefully they will change them with a QB they do trust.
As clafollett states he has a fast release and he thinks fast, Josh had regressed when he was sacked for the last time here.
Receivers get open against our DB & LBs, why don’t our receivers get open and go across the middle? Is it because with Josh the throw would be inaccurate or late?
Joe please tell us what you think.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:09 am
How can Sullivan be unpredictable when he has to please the HC or he will change the play call to one that our retarded HC likes…
October 5th, 2013 at 11:11 am
Ok. I just crunched the numbers from Schianos Rutgers days 2001-11.
Pass Attemts: 4147
Rush Attempt: 5023
If you think its sullys idea to call all those runs. Think again.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:13 am
Also, since we had the best rush defense because teams passed on our worst of alltime pass defense. Wasnt Schiano a DB coach with the bears? What the hell?
October 5th, 2013 at 11:15 am
As far as the Jets and Cards run defense
Why run when you can Fly??
As far as our Running game- No.
You can have the best RB and best line in Football,
But if you don’t have a good QB, who can scare the Defense- you won’t be able
To run effectively enough to win!!
What, you guys new to football?
If you could- Adrian Peterson and the Vikings would be getting Sized for their 5th Super Bowl ring!! The Run as well as anyone- no passing game- LOSER
That’s the biggest fundamental flaw( one of many) in The Lil Emperors “scheme” he wants to be a running team, in a passing league. Doesn’t work.
There were teams recently that built to Run then realized that they weren’t winning that way.
It’s a passing league!! And we don’t have a QB, and have the worst scheme in the league.
We won’t win- I don’t care how far Doug runs
October 5th, 2013 at 11:16 am
Great job hectorvas.
I believe it’s Sully’s offense, but Schiano’s style. I think if Greg could just take his dirty paws off the offense, it would be a lot better. Sully is hindered with Schiano’s overly conservative play style
October 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am
Tampabaybuctfan said “Sully will get the ax first if this keeps happening. (you heard it here)”
Well Schiano already bought at least 4 more games by throwing Freeman under the bus. So sully is obviously next in line.
In his breakfast, Schiano tried to justify keeping him by calling raheems team. From two years ago! Schiano needs to man up and accept that he has run my talented team to the ground because he’s too arrogant and stubborn not to adapt his methods. He cant adjust during gameday. We lose close game after close game. All thats on coaching.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:27 am
Asking Sully (or Coach) to stay unpredictable is like asking me to stay away from drinking alcohol when I go to a bar…..NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Oh well, maybe they’ll find a fool somewhere….a broken clock is…..eh, you know.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am
Chef Paul, good to see someone on here has some sense as to whats really going on. No matter how Schiano spins it, this team is a reflection of its head coach. Lol at him telling the breakfast, “you guys needed me”.
We needed a leader. Not a arrogant and stubborn run-your-team-and-players-into the ground coach. And Dominik, I liked you, but you signed your own pink slip by not having the balls to fire this guy when you should have.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:30 am
This offense doesn’t fool anybody.
As for the team it’s just excuse after excuse for losing, over and over again. Other than 2010′ fluke season it has been nothing but a culture of losing. At what point do you say enough and hire a real proven coach? A Cowher or Billick or even Chucky. I’d kill to have Chucky back. Schiano has proven he can’t win easy games against losing teams and the good teams beat him before he gets there. The guy has a proven record of losing in the clutch and his game day decisions are suspect at best.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:33 am
“Asking Sully (or Coach) to stay unpredictable is like asking me to stay away from drinking alcohol when I go to a bar…..NOT GONNA HAPPEN!”
If he can’t even switch up his thermostat or type of pasta once in a while, good luck trying to get him to budge on his philosophy. Like in that Mike Silver article, NFL executives, (the cabal), they know how this guy has some serious personality issues. The guy is legitimately crazy.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:42 am
BigMac, this was supposed to be our year! Everyone was excited with all the talent we had. We just didnt realize that a lunatic was steering the ship. Must be related to that oil spill exxon valdes captain. Just loses all that precious cargo because of his incompetence.
I bet Dom hired him because Schiano threatened him in the meating room with a louisville slugger.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am
@hectorvas….
“In his breakfast, Schiano tried to justify keeping him by calling raheems team. From two years ago! Schiano needs to man up and accept that he has run my talented team to the ground because he’s too arrogant and stubborn not to adapt his methods.”
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WTF???? Did Raheem bring in V-Jax, Martin, Goldson, Revis, Nicks, Barron, Lavonte David, adn Banks??? What the hell are you talking about?? Do you not remember 2011 and all the games being over by half time. What Schiano was referring to was all of these players that HE brought in and the missing final piece is the QB. KKind of like Harbaugh getting rid of Alex Smith and getting Kaepernick installed at San Francisco. Yeah, this WAS Raheems team and it WAS a laughingstock and you were probably one of the ones laughing at ‘Youngry’ and calling for Morris’ head on a platter. Don’t feed me all this fake outrage crap.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am
Here is a link to Demps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW4X664GRt0
All things are possible with a two ack set.
The jury is still out on the Blount trade…what did we get…a sixth round pick & this guy?
October 5th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
Hey guys!!! This is an article about the Bucs running game.
Now you can post what you want but I’ve seen plenty about Schiano (not defending him) I’d like to see some thoughts on our running game. There are plenty of articles coming about Schiano for you to vent.
Now, with that said….we are carrying 6 running backs and 6 WRs…..do you think that spells some changes?
October 5th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
Bobby said
“WTF???? Did Raheem bring in V-Jax, Martin, Goldson, Revis, Nicks, Barron, Lavonte David, adn Banks??? What the hell are you talking about?? Do you not remember 2011 and all the games being over by half time. What Schiano was referring to was all of these players that HE brought in and the missing final piece is the QB. KKind of like Harbaugh getting rid of Alex Smith and getting Kaepernick installed at San Francisco. Yeah, this WAS Raheems team and it WAS a laughingstock and you were probably one of the ones laughing at ‘Youngry’ and calling for Morris’ head on a platter. Don’t feed me all this fake outrage crap”
First, with all that talent you just mentioned? We didnt have that in 2011, but we do now. And Schiano STILL cant win with them. Oh yeah, just so you know how the NFL works, the GM signs the players, the HC and assistants coaches them up. Don’t talk about the defense either. ANY moron with NFL experience would have had them ranked No 1 by now with that talent.
Second, we didnt lose those games in 2011 by 2 or 3 points. This year, and last, when you lose games by 3 points or less, consistently 1-9, then thats poor coaching.
Third, Our owners and GM wanted a coach to get Freeman back to his 2010 form. You bring up Alex Smith? You just proved my point! Look what he’s doing with good coaching!
Fourth, Raheems “youngry” team may have been a “laughingstock”. But the nation isnt even laughing at our 2013 team. Its beyond a laughingstock. Its just sad.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
“Now, with that said….we are carrying 6 running backs and 6 WRs…..do you think that spells some changes?”
ok, Lets talk running game. We have 6 running backs, and only use 1.
Well I said my peice, its time for some football!
October 5th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
@ hectorvas
One change….lets hope “only use one” becomes “only used one”
I think we are in for some changes. If we do the same thing and lose…it will be Sully’s head…..if we change and lose….it will be Sully’s head.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I don’t think it’s that simple. It’s usually our TE’s block that is coming free making the TFL’s. I don’t see our crap TE’s getting better at that.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Last week we put in an additional OLineman (elligible)….they weren’t able to block either….We need to get our speed outside in the run game. Let the WRs do some blocking.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
The offense has got to change. Mike Sullivan has no coordinator experience and it shows.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:29 pm
@Jim Says:
October 5th, 2013 at 10:49 am
Nicks was damaged goods when he left the Saints. Thats why they let him go. Joseph is playing like crap and may never be the same. Those two are overpaid and underperforming.
Nicks certainly was not damaged goods, he was an all-pro who was 24 or 25 years old. The Saints could not afford to resign him because they have a lot of things to fix, namely their defense. He hurt his toe here last year, no way is any team going to sign him if he was damaged goods. He will bounce back and be great I think.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Nw tht the drama is gone back to playin ball
October 5th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
It’s dishearting to see this OLine underperform this badly. Maybe Joseph and Nicks aren’t 100%. But Penn and Zuttah have no excuse. It’s bad that Demar Dotson may be playing the best on the line right now.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
vs AZ
Longest running plays Goldson 22, Demps 14
Longest pass play Lorig 20
What do they have in common?
They were unexpected!!!
So we went to Martin for 45 yds on 27 carries and we got 36 on the two carries (above)
And…how ’bout that fake punt?….As Buc fans we haven’t seen something like that in decades….I think it is a sign of some changes to come. The only problem in the AZ game after a successful fake punt we went right back to Martin up the gut…
October 5th, 2013 at 12:48 pm
penn Is playing like crap this year and the bucs need to take some load of doug please mr schianoo
October 5th, 2013 at 12:52 pm
@hectorvas
First, with all that talent you just mentioned? We didnt have that in 2011, but we do now. And Schiano STILL cant win with them. Oh yeah, just so you know how the NFL works, the GM signs the players, the HC and assistants coaches them up. Don’t talk about the defense either. ANY moron with NFL experience would have had them ranked No 1 by now with that talent.
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That was my point…you said Schiano ruined your talented team. No he didn’t, he’s helping to build your talented team. A big part of that is getting rid of a very inconsistent QB. And, just so you know how the NFL works, the GM drafts the players that the coach wants for his scheme. It’s not some random “I pick ’em, you coach ’em” thing. My conclusion would be that Freeman was just not very coachable. The defense is doing fine.
October 5th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
O-line sucks but Doug isn’t running the same as end of last year. I see a lot of the same as start of last year where he couldn’t seem to break arm tackles and goes down on first contact. I kept pulling for Blount until a few games in when something clicked for him. So far this season I don’t know if I have seen him break a tackle. End of cards game was very telling. Backed up near own end zone was out in space one on one with backup linebacker and couldn’t make him miss.
October 5th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Looking at it as a Bucs fan from Scotland who manages to come over to see a couple of games every year, unfortunately the Saints and Cards this year, then perhaps I am slightly more objective. It seems to me that the Bucs tried incredibly hard to change their QB in the offseason and when that didn’t happen then they took Glennon as insurance against Freeman failing. I think that Freeman realised that even if he had a “good” year this year he would still be out and was going through the motions.
The bog spending in the offseason was I think based on the belief that another QB would be in residence – not Freeman. So the owners and management believed that this season with a different QB and the new signings would be a marker for a real run at the play offs next season. Unfortunately the new (better) QB scenario did not pan out and then the Freeman implosion occured.
So on that basis I believe the Glazers will give Schiano this season and next season to prove he really can cut it as a head coach.
One final point re Freeman, How can you mistakenly take the wrong drug Ritalin and why did he have it in his possession in the first place?
So I give
October 5th, 2013 at 1:55 pm
I think the coaches know things have to change in order to win and if we don’t win they are gone whether mid season or at the end. I would like to see some 4 receiver sets variations, got to keep the defense honest. Lets liven up the passing game which we haven’t been doing and that will go a long way in getting the run game back to being effective. Plus use Leonard and James to take some of wear and tear off Doug and keep him fresher for the 4th qtr. It will be interesting to see in the next game if the coaches have learned anything or not or it it’s just more of the same.
October 5th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
@ Mr.T
Agree…and you’ve got to know the Eagles will probably put up some points even against our D.
If we see one more game like the last 4 on offense…I will be ready to revolt….& I have been about as patient as I can be so far.
October 5th, 2013 at 2:33 pm
@Heilan Laddie…
Wow! It takes someone from Scotland to actually understand the situation. Unfortunately you will find that common sense and logic are a short commodity at JBF. Anyway, thanks for being a true fan. Seems like another thing in short supply here in the Bay area.
October 5th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
Well, the offense, in a way I think, was dumbed down because of Josh. Now he’s gone and Glennon can make those short throws plus read 10 times the information per second than Josh, so hopefully that opens the play calling.
But still, they need to stop running Doug into the ground….and need to figure out how to make the right decisions to win the close ones near the end.
October 5th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
@Heilan Laddie…
I agree with you, to sum up what yout said. Its The Pop-Star’s fault!
well said, well said
October 5th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
@MadMax…
Well, the offense, in a way I think, was dumbed down because of Josh. Now he’s gone and Glennon can make those short throws plus read 10 times the information per second than Josh, so hopefully that opens the play calling.
But still, they need to stop running Doug into the ground….and need to figure out how to make the right decisions to win the close ones near the end.
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Agree. I don’t mind them running Martin, it’s WHEN they run him. Let’s maybe pass a little on first down to keep the defense guessing. Can we just TRY to be unpredictable? If this continues then Sully has got to go. I think the play calling will change with Glennon. His ability to see the field seems to be much better.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:04 pm
@Laddie & Realist
I didn’t see laddie blame Dominick…but you continue.
I will agree with you Realist on one point….where has he been?
Quite the politician…Dom..
Laddie,
As for the Ritalin….I wonder when Josh was diagnosed with ADHD….as a child, in college or after he was drafted…
I, like you am not so willing to give an adult millionaire who makes his liviing with his body a pass.
I think they really thought they could get Palmer. Freeman would have to have taken us to the Playoffs in order to survive.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
When watching the Saints, Pats and Broncos, what stands out to me with their offenses is how their QB’s spread the ball around to so many different receivers. I think this Buc offense has been pushing too many balls to Jackson and too many rushes to Martin. The other defenses know it. Watch Manning and Bree’s they look for multiple targets in the span of a couple of seconds, then they pull the trigger. Bree’s finds guys like Meachem and Moore. Manning finds Decker, Thomas all secondary targets. The Buc offense must learn to be more equally distributed and find the other targets. That can be coached and schemed. The Buc QB doesn’t have enough time to throw the home run ball. Get Mike Williams, Page and Demps the ball. The opposing defense is expecting Jackson and Martin to get the ball. How about changing things up to go against their tendencies? Being predictable in the NFL is not a good thing.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:47 pm
Looking for multiple targets in the span of seconds was not Freeman’s strong suit.
October 5th, 2013 at 8:13 pm
He called some play action passes on 1st down several times last week. So it’s not lack of unpredictability.
But those won’t help the running game if the passes don’t hurt the defense. You need a good QB, and they just don’t have one.
October 5th, 2013 at 11:12 pm
“He called some play action passes on 1st down several times last week. So it’s not lack of unpredictability.”
Oh, yes it is.