Greg Schiano Messed Up With Josh Freeman
October 5th, 2013
Pat Kirwan
Former Bucs scout, Jets linebackers coach under Monte Kiffin, Jets pro personnel director and current NFL analyst Pat Kirwan has always been a Josh Freeman fan.
So Thursday when the Bucs ended the 10-month old drama with Freeman by washing their hands of him, it came as a surprise to Kirwan. On his excellent SiriusXM NFL Radio show, “Movin’ the Chains,” co-hosted with Jim Miller, Kirwan gave his take on the situation.
In short, Kirwan had pointed words for Bucs commander Greg Schiano. To listen, click the orange arrow below.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:02 pm
Stuff it Patty.
We all know you don’t know football.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
I don’t know if it’s possible to beat the Freeman and Schiano drum any harder. Every day, it’s more talk about this subject and it’s getting stale. Freeman cannot be defended no matter how hard some will try. Coaching didn’t lead to Freeman’s demise, Freeman did. He failed to perform and regressed dramatically. Keep in mind, that regression began long before Schiano took over. The downward trend just continued under Schiano. I think Schiano’s hands were tied with sticking with Freeman. After all, there is a wide gap between the investment of Freeman vs Glennon. I’m the first to say Schiano should be canned ahora but Schiano has certainly taken his share of unfair criticism and fabricated claims.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Hence the unprecedented number of teams rushing to sign Moron 5
October 5th, 2013 at 3:12 pm
He’s not even a Buccaneer anymore, let it go.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
@Cmurda
Agree completely.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Even to those of us that have supported Freeman in the past…how could this be a surprise??? Politicians can get reelected after being terrible for 4 years but it’s not the same for QB’s…..
October 5th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Ends with….”You never even got value for the guy”…uh. what value exactly? Cleveland and the Jags have come out very quickly stating “NOT INTERESTED”.
No value because there is none…but there is lots of drama floating with that package. Now we know just how bad it was when NOBODY is interested. Looks like the right move was made on Freeman.
Now on Talib and Bennett and Blount, those were some boneheaded moves!!
October 5th, 2013 at 3:35 pm
I think it’s the other way around….:”Freeman messed up with Schiano” he didn’t step up when he was given the chance.
Last time my “boss messed up” with me…I was the one who had to hit the door!!!
Here is a link to an article about Schiano with a Rutgers QB (3year relationship) It is well worth reading.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1796427-it-wasnt-easy-ex-rutgers-quarterback-remembers-good-bad-about-greg-schiano
October 5th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
@Cmurda
I agree enough is enough…but I try to stay on subject with my posts….unlike many who take every opportunity to vent against Schiano. I’m not defending him…I just think it is a waste of time because he has a longer leash from the Glazers than most would like.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Infrastructure Infrastructure Infrastructure..smh
October 5th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
@TBBF
Funny how that story hasn’t been spread around by media like some of the
“anti-schiano” stories huh?
We’ll do it for em though 😉
October 5th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Like everyone else, Kirwan’s got one of each. Freeman was never anything but a backup at best. The pity is that Raheem talked the Rock Star into trading up to draft his very good buddy.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@TBBF Agreed. I’ve really been with Schiano. I liked his concepts and the key elements of team building. The problem has been it hasn’t been the players who have had the coach lose faith or trust in them. I don’t know who you meant by staying on topic because Im commenting directly on the JBF post. As I’ve stated before, Schiano’s poor record and sticking with Freeman so long were certainly not favorable situations but that isn’t enough grounds for dismissal in such a short period of time. I understand that it takes time to change the culture. However, Schiano’s locker room and the level of distraction appear to be all-time highs and neither fans nor the Glazers can enjoy that. In the end, it is about winning. That hasn’t happened and the ability to do so in the future is greatly compromised right now. This is what has me up in arms about Schiano.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
MadMax, trading Talib was not boneheaded. It was the best thing for Talib. He needed a reality check. If it had not happened he would still be getting in trouble.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
He Kirwin….Do you think the “Bucs messed up by not voting Freeman Captain”?
Did all other 31 teams mess up because they wouldn’t take the Buc offer to absorb most of Freeman’s salary in return for a 2015 7th round trip?
You have zero credibility. The marketplace has spoken. Perhaps the asking price was still way to high…Maybe we should have paid.
According to you all he needs is some good coaching and perhaps the right prescription cocktail.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
I’m gonna change the topic because talking about a crappy QB that doesn’t play for us is tiring.
Anybody watching the Clemson game? If Glennon turns out to be decent and we arent looking for a QB, my personal fav is Sammy Watkins. V-Jax, Mike Will and Watkins in a 3 WR set?
That sounds pretty good to me.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
7th round pick….
October 5th, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Freeman sucks!
October 5th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
Watkins would be a GREAT pick that guy is going to have a “Welker type” impact on the league.
He would be a phenomenal slot except for the fact that eventually he will demand number 1 type money.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:58 pm
He’s wrong on so many levels. He makes mention of Talib like we got rid of him because he and Schiano didn’t get along….How about his multiple suspensions for drug usage?? Ya think that might have factored in? Then he acts like we should have just stuck with Freeman even though he’s playing like crap and it’s his final year and we WERE NOT going to resign him after an 0-3 start. So it’s smart to just play the guy out and NOT see what you have in Glennon and then what?? How do you know whether you need a QB in the draft or not if you don’t test Glennon? Is he seriously suggesting that Freeman didn’t have enough time to get his act together? This is just another stupid rant from a poorly thought out commentary Kirwan.
October 5th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Agreed.
V-jax isn’t going to play forever. And with Watkins, we would have 2 young studs to replace him when he goes. It’s a win win. Sadly, Bucs probably wont pick him simply because I want them to. Lol
October 5th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
Pat Kirwan of “Yankin the Chains” says…blah blah and blah.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
That is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say, except perhaps my own emotional response to the coach blowing up the offense in the beginning of the season…
The part where Kirwan intimated that “the coach has to learn…” tells me all I need to know. While PK is no longer an NFL exec, or even an assistant to an NFL exec, he still thinks like they do – thats why Sirius hired him. PK’s take is DEAD-ON.
I would add – that not oonly does Glennon NOT give you the best chance of winning a single game – AND the decision to put Josh in street clothes up in the stands said – Schiano had decided to RELY on a rookie for the remainder of the season on Glennon. Which meant that he had moved on whether his boss or the owners had, or not!
It isn’t going to get better with time – Schaino doesn’t like treating men with mutual respect. If you want respect in this league, you have to show it. He wanted Glennon on the field from the moment he drafted Glennon. I absolutely believe that – I also absolutely believe the same guy who hurt his team’s prospects by starting a rookie against the worst team on our roster – also put the only guy ON the roster to have won an NFL game – in the STANDS!? He didn’t even want to position the team for a possible injury.
That tactic alone tells me he had a hand in some, if not ALL, the crap that went on that led to the unceremonious release of a former FIRST ROUNDER and STARTING QB that fought through fires of his own, earned the fans he had with 5 4th quarter come back wins, led the team to it’s first ever Top Ten offensive ranking, the FIRST Buc QB to throw for 4000 yds…if you stopped there – that should have been enough to force the new guy to use diplomacy. He didn’t, because he;s never HAD to. At Rutgers, when Schiano barked – everyone jumped. That isn’t the case in the NFL – to the pros on this roster – many never thought seriously about playing at Rutgers. It would be easy to see that they may be skeptical – not vocally – but privately.
We’ll see if his moves made him more or less powerful in the locker room.
By the way – I especially loved PK’s acknowledgement of the coach’s issue with Aqib Talib in this fiasco. At least we know the owners have skin in the game – Schiano made sure that where ever Freeman lands – the Bucs will be paying the salary of another player to play for an opponent.
It’s out there for everyone to see now – and while you’re at it – remember seeing Blount score a couple of TD’s in the same, different Jersey…
October 5th, 2013 at 4:04 pm
That makes since, your right, VJ will be on his way out by the time Sammy’s rookie contract would be up.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
@ Bobby
Agree on Talib…he always had talent…but only once in a while for us….how could you trust him with a long-term contract, so we got a 4th round pick for him. Everyone was saying then that we picked NEs pocket.
As for Blount…the jury’s still out for me there…lets see how Demps turned out & I think we got the pick for James too with that trade.
“No one knows what goes on behind closed doors” Kirwan and fans have no idea how Blount acted in front of or behind Schiano’s back.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
Sammy’s a beast. But he’s to rich for our blood given the overwhelming need to to upgrade our Oline (namely Donald Penn).
IMHO -You don’t even have to draft a tough, hard nosed, quick twitch, speedy; slot receiver. You just have to scout well, and give these kids— that are not afraid of the bright lights– and big hits across the middle a chance
October 5th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
@ Couch
We will have some $$$ that would have been spent of Freeman that could buy a TE or 3rd WR….I think the key to our draft is whether Glennon works out. If he does, that would be fantastic because we could get a WR or TE in the draft….I suspect we will want to look at a DE also…because so far it doesn’t look like Bowers is the one. (that’s one position I would avoid from Clemson)
October 5th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
@TBBF
Agree I would stay far away from Clemson DEs. But I’m not giving up on Bowers just yet. But I can admit it’s not looking good for him.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
@ White Tiger
If you are even 1% right where is one other team stepping up to take Freeman? The owners were willing to eat $6 mil…that should tell you all you need to know.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
IMHO(OLINE UPGRADES)
(1st Round) OLT-Taylor Lewan 6-7 315
(3rd Round) OG/- Spencer Long 6-4 315
(4th Round) RT/LG-JaWuan James Tennessee 6-6 318
October 5th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
Same ole Blount good for a Bunch of stuffs and 1 long run.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
“We will have some $$$ that would have been spent of Freeman that could buy a TE or 3rd WR”
What $$ ? Seems to me that, right or wrong , they were NEVER going to sign Freeman. They won’t have one penny more because the released him this year.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
If we can Trade
Vincent Jackson( 1st or 2nd round pick)
Revis (1st Round Pick)
We take the extra cap space and build some, quality depth across the roster.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Hopefully Talib pops a positive drug test in about December so everyone can still think it was terrible getting rid of him as he begins his 1 year suspension. Talib was and still is an incredible risk, and his play right now is irrelevant because he’s in a contract year and we all know what happens those years.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
@ Fritz
How ’bout I re-word it for you….Money not spent on a QB next year…..
October 5th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
And please, please stop talking about blowing this team up. We’re the Seahawks before Russell Wilson and the 49ers before Jim Harbaugh. If we can get either a very good QB or a very good QB coach, we’re going to the playoffs next year with the same roster. People really need to chill it with the ledge talk.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
Sorry dude but lay off the FireSale mentality
We are not going back to square one.
We are not the Miami Marlins of football
October 5th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
Excuse me I just don’t see the value in paying a corner back 1million a game. My bad
October 5th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Your forgiven
October 5th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Donald Penn has seriously regressed
October 5th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
Our pass defense has been very strong this year without a true #2 to play opposite Revis. His impact cannot be understated, he has made our defense much better. He allows our front 7 to be more aggressive, and obviously we are getting after the QB more this year.
There’s also the whole nobody else is going to pay that salary to Revis thing that sort of makes him untradeable. The only way Revis isn’t a Buc for the remainder of his contract is if he gets cut.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:40 pm
And obviously cannot deny Penn. In fact that’s what makes me hope Glennon develops so we can spend our first on a tackle. Penn has been straight up awful most of this season.
October 5th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
You can always restructure a NONE guaranteed contract and not take an immediate cap hit.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
I agree…no need to dismantle…just tweak….assuming Glennon works out…we need TE,3rdWR,LT…Maybe more help on the DL….I think Banks will work & Johnson & Gorrer will develop.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:34 pm
It seems that we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t with Freeman…
When he was on the roster/starting every analyst in the universe talked about how bad he was, now when we bench him/release him we’re the bad guys or in this case Schiano’s the bad guy.
Freeman would still be here if he didn’t start pouting like a little B!tch after he got benched; he handled that situation like a spoiled brat period. The bottom line is 2010 is ancient history in NFL years; minus the 6 game stretch last season Freeman has been trash since 2011. Can we please stop beating this dead horse I’m over it already. Go Mike Glennon/F*ck Freeman…
October 5th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
I agree 100% with Pat Kirwan.
He knows football better than anyone who comments on this site, Joe included, PRBucFan; that’s the truth!
October 5th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
“Same ole Blount good for a Bunch of stuffs and 1 long run.”
Yep.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
Didnt Kirwin pick the Bucs to win only 5 games mainly because of the inconsistency of Freeman?
What a tool.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
Pat Kirwan is that you?
Bahahaha what a tool
October 5th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
@Snook
Lol glad we are on the same page
October 5th, 2013 at 5:53 pm
“I like the skills of quarterback Josh Freeman, but he’s as inconsistent now as he was last year.” — Pat Kirwan
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/23268807/nfl-teambyteam-record-predictions
He didn’t think much of Josh Freeman in his pre-season prediction. So what’s the problem? Josh went out and proved Pat’s words correct. He’s inconsistent. Period. Why keep him around?
Kirwan claims at the end that the Bucs “never got value” for Freeman because they released him? No shiz. We got about 1 season of value.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:59 pm
*Check Mate
October 5th, 2013 at 6:33 pm
Bobby/PR Buc”Fan” Says:
October 5th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
“Same ole Blount good for a Bunch of stuffs and 1 long run.”
Yep.
********
I never understood releasing him. He averaged 190 touches his first two years. Averaging 5.0 yds/carry and 4.2 yds/carry. Then he drops off in 2012 to only 41 touches, average drops to 3.7 yds/carry. Now he already has 34 attempts for 4.6 yds/carry. Oh yeah, ZERO fumbles.
Yep. Same ol Blount!
October 5th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
PRBucFan Says:
October 5th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
Pat Kirwan is that you?
Bahahaha what a tool
***********
Elaborate then…. All you have are two liners. You seem unable to expand on a take and elaborate. Go ahead. You got the floor_______________
October 5th, 2013 at 6:50 pm
U are?
October 5th, 2013 at 6:52 pm
No one for me to waste my time on, that’s who.
October 5th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
I have an idea though 😉
October 5th, 2013 at 7:18 pm
Blount had 9 fumbles in 2010-2011.
The fact has zero in 2012-2013 with such limited carries is meaningless.
October 5th, 2013 at 8:25 pm
The truth may come out someday that Freeman was a messup, and the Bucs organization was actually trying to protect him by not revealing some of their reasons.
I’m not saying that’s the case, but it could easily be. Do none of these talking heads consider that there may be entire sides to the story they don’t know? No, they just rush to judgement.
It was Freeman that played poorly, that missed team meetings, missed the photo, took the wrong prescription, gave the unauthorized interview, and pouted in his suite instead of the inactive players suite.
Those of us that remember Aqib Talib punching a taxi driver in the back of the head are not missing him working in our town. Let the Red Sox nation deal with it.
October 5th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
I don’t understand the details of how it works, but shouldn’t Freeman have been claimed off waivers by now? If so, it’s showing that the Bucs may have made the right call at least according to 31 other teams.
October 6th, 2013 at 2:34 am
You fools actually think Freeman HAS to be signed right away? After what he’s been through?
Freeman and his agent are able to field a host of calls – he will go where the fit is the best and the owners, front office and coaching staff are stable and in agreement. There are quire a few of interested.
You may not like it, but you know it is true. Know how I know?
Who are the Bucs going to sign as the 3rd string QB that Dom said we needed?
How many starting QB’s were injured in a SINGLE GAME between New York and Cleveland.
It’s going to be a L-O-N-G season, and it will culminate with the firing of Greg Schiano. I’m not happy about it, heck, before the fiasco where it showed he has ZERO ability to deal with pros – canibalism isn’t a negotiation tactic – I actually gave him a wide berth. Not now, he’s shown he’s not ready and he’s in over his head. Pros will not tolerate his style – it’s only a matter of time until they quit on him like they quit on Raheem.
Too bad – he’s done this ALL to himself. You have to learn to work with the pro athlete – they aren’t kids anymore – this is there career and they’re understandably protective of it. Hitler has no place on an NFL sideline. He’s injured this team beyond any ability HE has of repairing it.
We are a LOT further away from being a good team than when we started this year. Schiano has weakened this team and brought in league oversight. The fanbase HATES this guy – which means we could very well go through ANOTHER “transition phase” (read:losses, LOTS of them). Not even sure if Dominic survives this – so the entire philosophy behind bringing in the players we have will change.
All because one hard A$$ with a control problem couldn’t learn to work with his starting QB. Greg is about to find out – “his way” leads out of town.
Here we go again.
October 6th, 2013 at 3:00 am
235-363-1, inluding playoffs. Whose side are we on? I want to see this team win every game, 56-0, like junior varsity level on NCAA, but I’ll settle for the Heisman level wins by 7 or less. The bad thing is, this isn’t college. If Mike Glennon can just get the offense to score 18 points a game, they might surprise a couple teams, but that’s pushing it. If his release is fast & on point, maybe, just maybe, they could win 6. SIX GAMES? That might be enough to allow Coach Schiano to get his way for another year. I’m not sure I want that, but if you find 6 wins & that performance by a coach acceptable, I just don’t share the same enthusiasm for what should be an otherwise decent year, 9-7, 10-6, a little progression. I want Glennon to have the same fire that Josh didn’t have, or never cared to show. I want to see that, even if it’s subtle. He would still need to mature & grow confident. But I’m not expecting it. So, surprise me, please!
October 6th, 2013 at 6:54 am
@White Tiger…..I feel sorry for the team that takes on Freeman. I just think he’s not good, at all.
But Im with you on Schiano. More than anything, I want to see a change at GM. All of it rests at Dom now *and the Glazers of course). Im sure the Glazers are the ones who threw the hammer down on the Freeman Circus decision.
October 6th, 2013 at 6:59 am
And Im ALL ABOUT WATKINS Baby!!!! Thats why Im hoping and praying Glennon works out as our starter QB. If he doesnt then it will be a QB 1st round. But we seriously need that 3rd receiver, be it WR or TE, be it acquired through a trade, the off season, or next years draft.
But Watkins is the man on my radar right now!! Said that a few days ago. Clemson is 20 miles away from me…and although Im a Gamecock, I pay close attention to that in-state rival of ours 😉