Schiano Ex-Bucs: 17 Sacks; 2013 Bucs: 17 Sacks
October 29th, 2013
Cowboys’ George Selvie is one of four ex-Bucs defensive linemen who have a combined 17 sacks this season.
Yesterday, Joe banged the drum to signal how the Bucs let 2012 sack leader Michael Bennett walk away needlessly and how the Bucs still haven’t come close to matching his loss in sacks.
But it gets more criminal than that. There are other defensive linemen the Bucs had participating as Buccaneer Men on the fields of One Buc Palace over the past two years that they let get away — men who are shining for other teams, teams with realistic playoff chances by the way.
Joe’s going to throw out four names. Chris Jones, Wallace Gilberry, George Selvie and Bennett. The Bucs had these guys on their roster. Bennett, who wanted to return, was allowed to walk away, the other three were cut.
Selvie, now playing for Rod Marinelli and the Cowboys, has five sacks. Jones, playing for Bill Belicheat and the Patriots, has 4.5 sacks. Gilberry, playing for Mike Zimmer and the Bengals, has three sacks. Bennett, playing for Pete Carroll and the Seahawks, has 4.5 sacks. (Keep in mind Gilberry also had a fantastic year last year, after the Bucs cut him in September 2012.)
Add those up and you have 17 sacks as we enter Week Nine of the NFL season. The Bucs are currently 22nd in the NFL in sacks with — you guessed it — 17 sacks (with linebackers leading the team no less.)
Now what the hell is going on here? A few things.
First, it seems the latest fad is to slam Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik. Granted, it’s not as if he has made Ozzie Newsome-like moves throughout his tenure with the Bucs, but he is hardly Bruce Allen, who was atrocious at player evaluation. Dominik saw something in Gilberry, Jones and Selive — enough to put them on the Bucs’ roster –that apparently the Bucs coaching staff either didn’t see or couldn’t get out of them.
Once defensive linemen get on the roster, they’re in the hands of the head coach. He decides who plays and who stays, not the GM.
Notice that the four former Bucs all have one thing in common? They are playing for coaches with a significant track record of getting the most out of players.
Many football pundits claim the Bucs have talent and most are shocked by the Bucs’ winless record with the talent they have? You may do the math but Joe already knows the riddle: The Bucs coaching staff is doing a terrible job of developing talent, evaluating talent, or simply using the talent they have to produce wins.
Bucs commander Greg Schiano has said several times during his 12 of 13 game losing tailspin that his coaching staff must do a better job, starting with himself. You sure are right, Coach. Problem is, just like you and your staff didn’t see the talent in those four former Bucs, fans sure aren’t seeing the talent and development in your coaching, i.e. wins.
Think the Bucs couldn’t use any of those four guys and their 17 sacks?
Oh, Bennett is hardly the only defensive lineman that was not fond of Schiano. Earlier this year, Gilberry blasted the Bucs commander for running what he termed “a high school program.”
October 29th, 2013 at 7:22 am
Actually joe , Dom is the final decision maker on 53 man roster. Also selvie never made it to TC.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:24 am
Do players fit better in one system over another?
October 29th, 2013 at 7:43 am
“Greg Schiano is a joke” sums it up nicely.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:45 am
There is some good & bad with Jones….he made the unsportsman like consuct penalty that caused NE to lose the game against the Jets.
You are correct that the totality of the evidence shows we have let good players go. The real problem is the players we have kept aren’t getting the job done.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:50 am
This guy is causing irreparable damage to the team. He needs to go yesterday.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:50 am
Stunts are simply not working.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:51 am
Dominick has misfired on so many pass rushers out of the draft that its criminal. Bowers, Clayborn, Gholston, McKoy and still no sacks. If Dominick had any brain he would do what we did when we did have a decent pass rush and get a PROVEN pass rusher like Simeon Rice who pushed us over the top. Dom has passed on so many free agents this year and last that could rush the quarterback and thats why he should be fired. Its obvious this team needed pass rushers and he keeps misfirng wasting high draft picks for mediocre defensive lineman. I am done with Dom as a GM.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:54 am
Nice article Joe; great research.
And our starting D-line of Bowers (0), Clayborne (5), McCoy (2) and Spence (1), have only a combined 8 sacks, compared to the 17 sacks of the four non-starters/situational players of Bennett, et al.
Lack of good coaching would certainly explain most of what is going on. Just hard to believe someone like Schiano, rising to the level that he has, could be so inept.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:54 am
Michael Bennett, is that the 0 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 penalties guy from monday?
right decision to not give that a guy a contract.
we also know (from hard knocks) that the Bennett brothers are not the brightest bulbs in the box.
October 29th, 2013 at 7:56 am
Wait but maybe we should keep Dom around to find the next great Raheem Morris/Greg Schiano coach for the Bucs!! Their diamonds in the rough and they cost nothing so the Glazers will be happy!!
October 29th, 2013 at 8:02 am
17 sacks + 17 sacks = 34 sacks , coach
October 29th, 2013 at 8:14 am
The proof is in the pudding
October 29th, 2013 at 8:18 am
wow look at joe protecting the “rockstar” like he was his girlfriend
October 29th, 2013 at 8:22 am
@Joe
Let’s clear this up, pretty please. Bottom line, who has final authority on all personnel, Schiano or Dominick?
Fire the Teflon Dom!!
October 29th, 2013 at 8:33 am
Everyone assumes that it was Schiano who
pulled the trigger to release all of our
quality depth….Bennett, Talib, Trueblood et al.
Personally I think the orders came from higher up:
“Cut anyone who expects a raise and replace them
with new guys who who are glad to be here for
any price.”
Crazy? Ya think?…really?
Anyone with eyes and triple digit IQ would come to the same conclusion.
We’re in bad bad shape and it’s only going to get worse.
October 29th, 2013 at 8:36 am
Nick2 you are right, Schiano is making less in 5 years than Sean Peyton is making in two years.
October 29th, 2013 at 8:36 am
@Harry: Clayborn has 3 sacks, not 5. Makes a world of difference especially when you consider he barely gets any pressure most of the time.
October 29th, 2013 at 8:46 am
I distinctly remember Joe replying about Selive, that it was only pre-season and that he got cut by the Bucs for a reason. I guess the reason was that he was pretty damn good pass rusher Joe? LOL
October 29th, 2013 at 8:50 am
Another Schiano bashing day, huh Joe?? getting a little old!!
October 29th, 2013 at 8:52 am
@Jonny 2.3 Sorry, my bad. I was doing that from memory and, obviously, mine is not too good. lol
October 29th, 2013 at 9:01 am
THESE PLAYER’S ARE NOT BUYING IN TO HIS B.S. BECAUSE THEY KNEW HE WAS A NOTHING COACH OUT OF COLLAGE THAT HAVEN’T WON SH-T. AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PLAY FOR THIS GUY. THEY ARE GIVIN UP ON HIM AND YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE FIELD. HIS PLAN DIDN’T WORK IN COLLAGE AND THEY KNOW IT WILL NOT WORK IN THE NFL. THE PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY AT A NFL LEVEL NOT COLLAGE . IF WE HAD A PROVIN COACH THAT HAD NFL BACK GROUND AND A WINNING RECORD THESE PLAYER WILL PLAY FOR HIM AND NOT GIVE UP…….
October 29th, 2013 at 9:06 am
Let’s see here I would take Bennett over any DE we currently have.
Dom did not hire Raheem Glazers did Dom wasn’t the GM at the time he was in the hospital.
Now let me get this right Schaino gets credit for the good drafts it is not Dom drafting and it is Dom making the roster cuts not the coach so Dom must be at practices in training camp to evaluate players so he can make the cuts. Wow I missed that.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:12 am
Hey watch it Gilberry, that is an insult to hard working highschool programs nationwide.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:18 am
Dom brought these players here.Its not on him.It is the coaches who use,don’t use,misuse these players.
It must be very tough on Rockstar knowing you bring in guys who once coach decides they are not to his liking he lets them go.
This train wreck will come around after season when Schiano walks.
I’m thinking maybe a Gruden part duex is in the cards.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:27 am
I think the numbers can be a little deceiving when you compare the o-lines the ex-bucs are getting their sacks against. I could be wrong, but we’ve gone against some pretty stout o-lines and mobile quarterbacks. Selvie is lounging in the NFC Least, Bennett has had the luxury of going against the NFC West o-lines (with the exception of SF) and the Jags. Theres no guarantee they would be having the same success with our schedule.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:28 am
Dom can’t force a coach to use a player, so the coach ultimately has the final say on who plays. If a guy isn’t going to play, why is the team going to pay him? The GM and HC work together to put a roster together. I fault the coaches for not using the guys properly, and that hasn’t changed in a year and a half, so I find it hard to believe it will ever change.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:29 am
George selive and michael bennett are the two that are unforgiveable.
We let bennett walk for an easy 1 year deal at 5 million and then we cut selive with no proven depth at a key postion sooo early in camp , at least let him play a few meaningless preseason games and see what he has…. the cowboys did and he looked like reggie white. Who made that call ? and why didn’t one of our 72 smart asst coaches like butch davis stop it from happening????????????
October 29th, 2013 at 9:41 am
So, from what I’m being told, Dominick doesn’t hire the head coaches (Rah and Schiano). I believe I read that Schiano hired his own staff. Now, people are alluding to him not having say on who gets cut from the team.
So, he doesn’t hire the coaches, and supposedly doesn’t have final say on personnel over a 2nd year, first time head coach in the league?
Talk about a GM in name only! Let’s get someone in here that knows about hiring staff and can take full ownership over the roster.
Either Dominick sucks or he is about a neutered and tamed as a fluffy little Pomeranian. Does he just fetch for the Glazers?
October 29th, 2013 at 9:42 am
Let’s be fair. Dominik and Schiano generally will sit down with other members of the coaching staff and decide who stays and who goes, especially for non-marquis players. I would put Bennett squarely on Dominik, because it was a cost move and tied to Dominik’s drafting of Bowers. The others were probably group decisions with Dominik and possibly Schiano deferring to others. Therefore, we can safely say Dominik, Schiano and both coordinators all need to go. Sorry fellas. The tape don’t lie.
October 29th, 2013 at 9:43 am
If it is 17 vs 17 it could be argued that getting rid of them gained us nothing…but also cost us nothing.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:09 am
Player evaluation seems to be one of the many problems of this regime.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:10 am
i love daniel t but he is a back up DE and to let those other guys walk when you have bowers who has done zero, clayborn off an injury, daniel T and a 4th rd pick is almost as stupid as going into a season with lumpkin as your back up rb or stocker and crabtree as your tight ends.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:10 am
Trueblood’s contract expired and the Bucs decided to let him walk because, well, he sucked.
Talib, Joe was told last year, the Bucs just gave up on. Joe was told Talib was so undisciplined and constantly freelancing against the Giants (when Eli Manning lit him up like a Roman candle) that with all his baggage, off-field hassles, PED suspension, the Bucs just had their fill and were fed up. Understandable.
Surely Talib never played close to the level with Schiano as he is doing with Belicheat. But guess what? He’s injured again, which he was every season in Tampa, and last year when the Pats needed him most.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:15 am
3 points.
1 – good article Joe. I still think you are soft on Dom and in this thread there are some good points made about what Dom is exactly responsible for that I think need answering. What he is and is not responsbile for seems inconsistent from day to day.
2 – Its spot on that players are only as good as what they are asked to do and how they are coached. All of those players we let go are in pretty good systems that they are likely benefiting from and probably inflating their numbers a bit, ex Bennett who proved he could do it here.
3 – Lets be real folks. Dom did identify the talent enough to put them on the roster in the first place (although I won’t give you credit for Selvie cause he never suited up.) Why these guys didn’t stick around is the real question that needs to be answered. And before we kill the coach anymore, its not like these guys were no brainers to be on the field. If they were that good, they never would have been floating around in free agency to begin with.
Overall, we just plain out suck and unfortunately, that is contangious.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:17 am
And what is even more confusing was drafting the 2 unheralded DE’s.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:17 am
Here’s a question, has any good coach ever had a back to back 5 game losing streak?
October 29th, 2013 at 10:23 am
@Mr. Patrick
Don’t worry, Mark Dominick is better than Bruce Allen. So, we got that going for us.
I’m sure Bowers is holding back all of his all world talent for just the right moment. I mean, there’ no way that Dominick reached, right?
October 29th, 2013 at 10:26 am
@shutthebucup… what are you talking about??/ Atlanta has a terrible oline that starts trueblood. Did you see matt ryan run for his life last week vs. arizona while having plenty of time against the bucs.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:27 am
What I’ve been saying all along: Dom picks em but the She Man has to mold them. Dom has done a good job on picking drafts and getting free agents. Our coaches (Raheem and Schiano) just haven’t done much with them.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:43 am
“If it is 17 vs 17 it could be argued that getting rid of them gained us nothing…but also cost us nothing.”
_______________________________________________________________
That was my first thought. It’s a wash. It’s not like this was going to give us an additional 17 sacks. Pointless article….again.
C’mon, Bobby. Our entire D-line has seven sacks in seven games and they can’t generate a four-man rush. This isn’t rocket science. –Joe
October 29th, 2013 at 10:45 am
Joe’s going to quote Steve White here and leave it at that. Schiano and Sheridan have ruined Adrian Clayborn.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:53 am
@shutthebucup… what are you talking about??
I’m sorry to upset you with my opinion, but not sure what the Cardinals have to do with anything. Matt Ryan has only been sacked 13 times this season.
October 29th, 2013 at 10:53 am
Yo Oil Derrick. I was jumping up and down when we drafted bowers. I think its a fair question though. Was it his injuries, bad coaching or is this just who he is and it was a bad pick. Obviously, plenty of other teams passed up on him so maybe the third? But in full disclosure I thought that was a great pick at the time. Never liked clayborn though. Was pissed when Aldon Smith, Quinn, JJ Watt, Kerrigan all went before us….
October 29th, 2013 at 10:55 am
Bobby – its not 17 washes 17. Its that these guys prooved that they could play and they would been on our team. Maybe as depth that we don’t have and probably competing for playing time.
October 29th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
All 4 of the players mentioned are lower-tiered semi-seasoned vets who didn’t command big contracts, they’ve all got that in common as well. Makes me wonder on Dom/Schiano’s evaluation practices and what they look for when releasing and keeping players. Schiano projected Bowers potentially being a double-digit sack type of player, and that was before we all learned that the 2nd round pick was struggling with condition in the middle of AUGUST!
Somebody dropped the ball evalutaing the 4 cheap veteran DEs we allowed to leave, and honestly our defense has been regressing on a weekly basis. I would’ve been just fine with Marty & Michael Bennet as the two clearly expressed a desire to play on the same squad, we had the cap and roster availability to make that happen, Dom just had tunnel-vision trying to pry Darelle Revis away from the Jets. DeQuan Bowers is starting to look like a BUST. Goes to show fans everything drafted in the top 2 rounds of the draft that glitters is certainly NOT gold, as UDFA Bennet accomplished more in 2012 than Bowers had in his short career.
October 29th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
The Glazers need to hire a football lifer executive (A Parcells-type) who knows how to identify and hire a seasoned GM with an acumen for personnel. Then, the GM can find the coach that he wants to coach his team.
Blow it up and hire someone who knows what they’re doing.
October 29th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Joe,
Dom hired Schiano and Sheridan, the year after he drafted Clayborn.
Clayborn’s development rests on the shoulders of Dom, as he assembled this circus.
Let’s be clear, Bruce Allen> Mark Dominick, and to say otherwise is CLEARLY FOOLISH.
October 29th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Lay off the bourbon!
October 29th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Feel free to inform Joe what “seasoned GM” is looking for work.
Phil Savage? Really?
October 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Hopefully after the Seahawks dismantle them this Sunday, Schiano gets fired, we won’t be talking about this any longer.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
“Feel free to inform Joe what “seasoned GM” is looking for work.
Phil Savage? Really?”
More of a typing gaffe on my part. I have said more than once whoever hires the GM needs to troll some of the successful franchises for an experienced assistant GM type. Costa in Cleveland, or really anyone along those lines.
You seem to want to bash Bruce Allen but let’s look at Dominick’s resume. Did he just pick stuff up through osmosis, or did he learn under the people you like to bash, while you extoll Dominick as some sort of shooting star? That really makes no sense.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm
Crap, Costa in Baltimore.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
That makes sense.
Joe’s going to guess Dominik learned how not to draft from Chucky/Bruce Allen, both of whom should have been locked out of One Buc Palace on draft day they were so awful.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
LOL Good catch.
Joe wouldn’t hire a groundskeeper from Cleveland much less a front office type.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm
Joe,
Lay off the bourbon, yourself!
Bruce Allen rebuilt the Skins, tookem back to the playoffs, all the while Dominick is 24-27.
I have to ask you, Joes, DOES DOMINICK WIN HIS 25th GAME BEFORE HE LOSES HIS 50th?
Ok, go ahead and continue to smear Schiano. He is a jerk, no doubt, but your pungent ignorance towards the one you dub the “Rock Star” is LAUGHABLE.
First there is no “smear” of Schiano going on. And please stop insulting Joe. That’s grounds for dismissal, under section 3.2 of the commenter code — crimes against Joe. –Joe
Seriously, how is Dominick absolved of blame for this MESS of a franchise?
I guess we can give Dom 6 more years to try to figure out how to get a 10 sack guy, franchise QB, slot wr, SLB, or a playoff appearance for that matter…
If the ship is coming down, it better have Dom with it, he can no longer hide from this PROBOLEM of a franchise.
October 29th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Dominick is 24-47*
October 29th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
Joe,
Sorry for the offense, just returning your comment to my post.
I will not undermine you, or your beloved site.
I am just furious at 0-7, and the GM must go too.
Schiano was only here the past 2 years, what about the prior 4 Dom was here?
Are we going to be a good team again, anytime in the next 5 years?
October 29th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Understandable, no problem.
People say the Bucs have talent. Dominik has drafted well of late. He certainly landed top-shelf free agents. Just the d-linemen Schiano couldn’t work with proves that.
Dominik stunk his first couple of years; he will admit that. Joe thinks he has turned the corner.
It sure seems like Dominik has picked the groceries, and Schiano has let them rot.
October 29th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Care to revisit the drafts that Bruce Almighty and Chucky had? Joe can think of only a few players that were productive: Davin Joseph, Cadillac Williams and Jeremy Zuttah!
Dominik’s draft of Barron, Martin and David in his first three picks could potentialy be the best Bucs draft since McKay landed Sapp and Brooks.
Dominik is doing what the Glazers want him to do. The Glazers trust him. They have said so repeatedly. What, should Dominik have given the finger to the Glazers and drafted who the fans wanted the past two seasons, Trent Richardson and Tavon Austin??? That would have worked out real splendidly.
October 29th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
Hmm- tough one! Who screwed up the Franchise and players the most, Dom or Shiano??
Eh, why debate. Their records justify firing both of them.
Clean sweep- reload!
October 29th, 2013 at 3:35 pm
excuses excuses for the GM errrr dinner pal…
October 29th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
Capt. Tim,
CLEAN SWEEP IS EXACTLY WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED, ALONG WITH MORE COW BELL.
We need to rip off this bandaid of a regime.
If Dom is not replaced, will it take 5 offers before another HC accepts?
October 29th, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Joe,
You are right about Tavon Austin and Trent Richardson, but I believe that Tavon will end up a very good player.
Plus, if Richardson is running over ppl in the playoffs, than he is a “good” player.
What about our GM selecting Mark Barron over Keuchly. I thought Barron was supposed to shut out opposing TE’s?
October 29th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
“Dominik’s draft of Barron, Martin and David in his first three picks could potentialy be the best Bucs draft since McKay landed Sapp and Brooks.”
Jury is still out on Barron, before you start putting him in the Hall of Fame.
October 29th, 2013 at 6:10 pm
Yea, like Reed 49ers and Vacarro Saints, play the pass better…btw, how do you draft a guy 7th who isn’t any good against the Pass in a passing era? LOL (M.Barron) Sorry fact for Bucs in the Draft: will probably draft a QB that will need patience to develop instead of picking the best defensive player in a decade who can raise havoc ala LT all day! Mr. Stud there in S. Carolina!
October 29th, 2013 at 11:55 pm
3rd place coach in the big east and last place in the NFC south.