“Biggest Flop”
October 30th, 2013
The house organ of the NFL, NFL.com, is all awash in midseason reports — best players at midseason, best teams, you name it.
Well, one category is biggest disappointment. And while many NFL.com types point to the Eagles, the Steelers, the Giants, etc., as the biggest disappointments of the 2013, there is a special place for the Bucs.
Judy Battista of NFL.com points a finger directly at Bucs commander Greg Schiano and the Pewter Pirates as this season’s “biggest flop.”
That leaves the winless Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the biggest flop of all. They spent two offseasons loading up on free agents, and they traded for Darrelle Revis to help rebuild the secondary. But then they made the wrong bet on the starting quarterback and made Revis play zone rather than his preferred man defense. On top of all that, they were beset by myriad unsavory issues, from the MRSA infestation to leaks about Josh Freeman’s behavior. For a team that hoped to contend for a playoff spot, the Bucs — who are hearing calls for coach Greg Schiano’s job at the halfway point — are in a startling predicament, making them the worst disappointment of the season.
But to hear some Bucs fans, it is not Schiano who is complicit in the downfall of the Bucs, but rather, rock star general manager Mark Dominik.
To hear these same fans, it was Dominik who planted MRSA in the Bucs locker room. It was Dominik who turned Freeman into a Buccaneers version of Benedict Arnold and motivated him to get all leaky (notice the drama as just about died down since Freeman left? Imagine?), it was Dominik that gave Carl Nicks a turf toe, it was Dominik that tore up Davin Joseph’s knee, it was Dominik, after he traded for Revis, who kept kicking him in the back of the knee which prevented him from playing man-to-man so much in the first place, it was Dominik who ran off productive players who are excelling for good teams now, and it was Dominik who nearly ran Doug Martin into the ground.
Next thing you know, the haters will try to convince you Dominik is responsible for the Ebola virus. This blind, misplaced rage saddens Joe.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:10 am
Dominick is responsible for hiring Greg Schiano. Schiano is responsible for bad scheme, improper use of players, and “inaccurate” statements made to the public causing controvery. So if Schiano is responsible for a large percentage of the poor performance of the team this year, some blame has to go on the guy who put him in charge in the first place. Does that not make sense???
October 30th, 2013 at 8:11 am
That last paragraph is hilarious – thank you for this 😀
October 30th, 2013 at 8:14 am
GZZZ lay it on any thicker Joe! If for some reason you don’t think that this is some part dom’s fault you really are a dom kiss ass! Why not do a article on how many players from dom’s first three frafts are starting players for the Bucs. Why not do an article on why he payed our O line such huge money and yet they couldn’t block a 2nd grader! Why not write an article on how dom is nothing more than a glorified accountant who manages the cap and thats it. If you say dom is not at fault for letting bennett go than there is only two reasons that could be true. Dom is the most spineless GM in the history of the bucs or Dom is just a cap manager. You talk about all these splash signings but signing big free agents at the end of their careers is not smart. We might as well be the Oakland raiders and Dom should change his last name to Davis!
October 30th, 2013 at 8:17 am
When a GM misses on 2 coaches, spends a 1st round pick on a bust of a QB (yes, Josh Freeman is a bust), can’t build a team through the draft and as a consequence, has to overpay for free agents. That’s a problem… We have broken the record in free agent contracts making Dashon Goldston, Darrelle Revis, Carl Nicks, and at the time Davin Joseph and Kellen Winslow, the highest paid players at their position in the NFL!!! Unfortunately, Dominick has made the organization one in which he has to overpay people to come here. Players are not wanting to come here to win, or to play for a coach, or for the atmosphere or culture. Yes, Dominick has made some good draft picks, but I would argue that when you’ve only made the playoffs once in the last 11 years and you are consistently drafting players in the first half of the 1st round, you have to hit on some of them. I don’t think that takes a genius or “rockstar” of a GM to accomplish that.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:19 am
It is Dominik that has shown he has no ability to evaluate a coach; Jeff Jags, Jim Bates, Schiano. It is Dominik who relied so heavily on all these injured players you have referrenced, coming off MAJOR injuries. It is Dominik who has left this team with little to no depth. It is Dominik who has failed miserably in practically every D-line selection he has made. It is Dominik who does not have a single player left on this team from the 2009 draft. It is Dominik who signed guys like Michael Clayton, Quincy Black, Derrick Ward, Eric Wright etc. It was Dominik who signed all the other guys…still a fail because they are all hurt!!!! It was Dominik who shipped off the best corner in the NFL right now for a FOURTH round pick. Last but most importantly, it was Dominik that bet the house on a Franchise QB, that did not pan out. Why should he get a shot at another one?
October 30th, 2013 at 8:28 am
Natenazty,
Dom did not hire Raheem or Schiano they were both hand picked by the Glazer Boys.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:28 am
Dominik can’t build a winning team. He went from “building through the draft” and because all his draft picks sucked, he had to sign top dollar free agents. Which most of them have not panned out.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:30 am
@Warrenfb12 PREACH!!! And Joe, chill out with all of the Jake Matthews talk. Jake Matthews is a tackle. The major problem with our O-line right now is guard play. The guards have been horrific. Pass protection has been ok because our tackles are doing their jobs. In the run game, you need your guards to be studs. The guards are the ones the get the push up the middle and are also the ones that pull on exterior runs. If we draft Jake Matthews with the first round and have the same guard issues, it will be a worthless effort to help improve that line. In my opinion, they need to get Anthony Barr to help out McCoy. Then maybe a QB. After that they can pick up a quality TE and guard or two in the later rounds.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:36 am
Joe is going to catch some crap on this one, lol Personally, I kind of agree with Joe, I think Dom’s later work is pretty good. He was off in the first year for sure; way off.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:37 am
Banned for repeated insults of Joe under multiple user names. And for the record, you’d be inaccurate to think you know who writes what around here. –Joe
October 30th, 2013 at 8:38 am
I’m playing a violin for all the Mark Dominick sadness in the world.
Good lord Joe, I love how you try to twist reality to suit your purpose of protecting your most favoritist GM in the entire universe.
Fact: The Teflon Dom is responsible for hiring of Schiano, ergo, he made a mistake in judging his abilities. Whatever you want to blame on Schiano goes back to the the GM holding his leash.
Fact: The Teflon Dom drafted Freeman, ergo, he is responsible for misjudging his character as well as his ability. What ever Freeman did or didn’t do, the guy who drafted him is responsible. That’s called accountability.
Fact: The Teflon Dom signed Nicks. If Nicks was the greatest thing since sliced bread, why didn’t Loomis try harder to bring him back?
Fact: The Teflon Dom spent a first round pick and the third rounder and then signed him to $16 million a year for a player that isn’t even 100%. A first rounder needs to play at a high level for at least 5 years. Will Revis be here in 5 years?
Fact: The Teflon Dom allowed a coach under his watch to run off said players. Who has the big balls in this organization?
@Joe
I notice you keep avoiding or completely missing this simple question:
A) Does Dominick have bottom line control of personnel? Did Dominick hire Schiano?
Nobody is avoiding your question. Joe, or anyone not named Dominik or Glazer, or in the personnel cases Schiano, knows for sure. Regarding personnel, there is a huge gray area. If Dominik scouts and brings in a player and Schiano doesn’t like him, where does that blame go? –Joe
B) or does Schiano have the power and did the Glazers hire him?
If the answer is B, then why do we need a neutered little puppy of a GM, who doesn’t have hiring power, or personnel power?
Either way, it’s obviously a weak GM. But, by all means, keep up the whitewashing.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:41 am
@warren
Right on, speak the truth!!
October 30th, 2013 at 8:42 am
Dominik didn’t hire Morris, the Glazers did. The Schiano hire may be on Dominik.
Dominik isn’t perfect but he got talent in here, it’s up to the coaches to deliver the results on the field. THAT’s the failure.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:48 am
Accountability begins at the top of the organization at GM. If he isn’t held accountable, then why should anyone else feel the need to be held accountable?
You people who continually ignore the plethora of mistakes by The Teflon Dom deserve a crappy team.
I just hope the Glazers sell the team, or finally hire an exec who will rebuild from scratch.
October 30th, 2013 at 8:48 am
THE only 2 drafts that wer good ca when Butch Davis was hired as and advisor. Butch has been known to be a good talent evaluator, since Cowboy days and helped recruit them UM playersthat all went pro every year. ITS NOT DOM MAKING THEMDECSIONS IN DRAFT.ITS BUTCH’S INPUT.
NATENAZTY your comments are great do yo have a twitter account?
October 30th, 2013 at 8:52 am
Oh Joe…you are so smart….the hate for Schiano is starting to die down because his firing is inevitable….so you put a staunch defense of Dominick in front of us.
Throwing him to the lions….FRESH MEAT!!
I don’t believe for one minute that you agree with your own statements.
A fish stinks from the head…and we can’t fire the Glazers…so guess what….
The only thing that saves Dominick is if these decisions are primarily being driven by the ownership and the last time I checked…..the Glazers are no Jerry Jones.
Saying you don’t believe Joe believes what he’s writing is the same as calling Joe a liar. Next time you’ll be banned from commenting. Joe has no time to babysit comments that attack Joe’s credibility. –Joe
October 30th, 2013 at 8:52 am
Dom couldn’t get a job as a roadie with most “rock stars”.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:00 am
Chucky Chucky Chucky!
October 30th, 2013 at 9:12 am
I really would like to see Butch Davis as GM when Dom is gone. I agree with what THETRUTH said. Hire a Offensive head coach at the end of the season. Keep Linebacker Coach and RB coach and maybe O-line coach and fire the rest.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:18 am
Ok Joe, hold up your left hand! We all wanna see that beautiful engagement ring !!
Jus kidding! But Dom has done a bad job. Bad drafts, bad Free agents, no depth.
Come on!! Year 5- and we have a worse record than when he took the reins?
That’s a bad job- and gets you fired!
Really not defensible!!
Don’t worry- if the new GM doesn’t give you access- we’ll start trashing him, until he does!!!
( unless he’s winning , of course)
October 30th, 2013 at 9:26 am
It was ultimately Dom’s stamp of approval on things from the hiring of Schiano, to the dismissing of some talented players, to the circus that was Gosh (and not trading him sooner when there may have been some trade value) to the pounding he continued to allow Doug to go through….
Oh! Was he not watching those games? Every other average “Joe” was seeing it and he was somehow blind to it? Well, I guess if he was paying attention, thats more on him for allowing it after the fact……if he wasnt paying attention, well, EVEN MORE on him for ALLOWING IT!!!!
Screw Dom, I hope he’s fired too!!!
October 30th, 2013 at 9:30 am
I’m laughing, thinking about this coming off season and the new GM hire.
I will try not to rib you on your simply adorable devotion to The Teflon Dom too much.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:33 am
One thing I can say for Dominik is he learns from his mistakes, and if you don’t think that is a big deal, look at Schiano. Schiano keeps doing the same things over and over and expects a different result (hmmm, definition of insane, right?). Attacking the Victory formation, D-line stunts, zone D instead of man, refuses to involve another RB, so gives good ones away, etc.
Dom mostly sucked in his first draft, and he signed “hands of stone” Clayton to a long term deal (that defies all logic), etc. Free was actually close to a ‘hit’ – he was a starter for 3-1/2 years (that says something). As an example, the ‘Old Dom’ would have signed Free to a long term deal this offseason, like he did Clayton, in order to keep him.
Now he is a little smarter. His drafts have hugely improved – look at last years draft as proof: Baron, Martin and David – that maybe the best in Bucs history. This year, no first round pick; I think Banks is going to figure it out and be very good; Glennon is a quality backup; Akeem Spence is starting and doing very very well. They say if you get 3 starters from a draft, it is deemed a success, so there you go. You look at any GM, if they hit well on about 60% of there picks, they are superstars; not even Ozzie Newsome gets them all right. As far as Dom picking Schiano, I think he did – I think the Glazers learned from forcing Morris on him that Dom had to have a bigger vote. BUT, I also think the Glazers had a hand in it. I think they remember Gruden coup de tat of McKay and that gave Gruden too much power, so they don’t want to see that with Rock Star.
If Dom gets fired, I predict he will go somewhere else and be a real rockstar.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:38 am
Harry:
Clear thinking and objective analysis in these comments will win you few friends. 🙁
October 30th, 2013 at 9:40 am
Thanks for speaking the truth on Dom, Joe. Fans who hate on Dom have it all wrong. This guy loaded the team with talent. It’s loaded. Look at the roster. There are a couple holes, yes. But overall it’s a pretty talent laden roster.
Dom has done a fine job. Leave him be. The better question is…..if you fire Dominik, who do you want (realistically) to replace him? It won’t be Pioli, so forget that right now. And even the great GM from the hallowed Colts years is taking flak for just getting Manning and nothing else. So who else is better than Dom? My guess is the REDSKINS (yea I said it) would be happy to replace Allen w Dom if we give him up.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:41 am
“Nobody is avoiding your question. Joe, or anyone not named Dominik or Glazer, or in the personnel cases Schiano, knows for sure. Regarding personnel, there is a huge gray area. ”
So, Joe, you are saying you are not sure if a first time NFL head coach with zero NFL personnel experience may have power over or equal to a GM who has 18 years of pro personnel experience? Doesn’t that say everything?
No. Joe is saying that nobody is sure. You want clear cut. But it’s just not going to be delivered for you. No GM tells a coach who to play, unless it’s a QB or a very high priced player. And that’s the gray area. By your logic, it’s the GM’s responsibility for scheme, as well. –Joe
“If Dominik scouts and brings in a player and Schiano doesn’t like him, where does that blame go? –Joe”
If Dominick is not simply a General Manager in name only, it’s blatantly obvious where the blame goes. It goes on the GM for allowing his own hire to dominate him like a bully taking a nerd’s milk money. Either this GM has zero power within the organization or he’s simply scared of the guy that he, himself, hired. Either way, he is mediocre, and I don’t expect this organization to ever compete with guys like Loomis and Dimitroff.
Again, you’re making clear assumptions. That’s fine, but don’t be so sure you’re accurate. The GMs job is to acquire talent. Joe’s not going to back off and somehow say the Bucs were a bare cupboard entering 2013. –Joe
FIRE THE TEFLON DOM!!
October 30th, 2013 at 9:42 am
Joe you keep criticizing the fan base for wanting Dom’s head. I don’t want his head. I want him to succeed. Unfortunately, we all have eye’s, brains and hearts.
Our eyes tell us that our team is bar belled with high priced free agents and some young talent with very little in between. Championships are built on the back of the in between, i.e. depth at core positions. The fact I see Underwood’s name on ESPN as “next man up” to replace Williams tells me that Dom hasn’t done a great job there. That is just one example but the eye test doesn’t lie. We are not a stacked team.
Secondly and very simply, common sense tells me that a 5 year period of time marked by losing records and embarrassing personal decisions, regardless of the shell game that seems to be getting played with Dom’s record saying he was responsible for this good stuff but not for this bad stuff, has my brain telling me that it would be impossible for him to 0% culpable in last 5 years. Common sense tells me, just by looking at the record, that there is room for improvement in the front office.
Lastly, the emotions of the people on this site are at times volatile and misguided buy it only comes from loving the team. You know how everyone talks about a coach losing a locker room. I’d be more worried, if I were the glazers, about a team losing its fans (more than they already have.) Wanting to blow the whole thing out is a fairly honest reaction to being a “laughing stock” in the league. It doesn’t mean it’s right, I’d just rather Joe look at it from a fresh perspective. If you we’re a Bears fan looking at the Buc’s would you be saying their GM is great but all of the coaches are horrible. No, you would be saying they need entirely new leadership.
Now, I may be wrong on 1 of my 3 points, maybe 2 of them. But they are all not wrong and that points to room for improvement from the GM.
And respectfully, please stop using the straw man “I remember the Bruce Allen days.” We all do as well and it was awful. But the choice isn’t between Allen or Dom, its between Dom and a fresh start and hopefully an improvement.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:43 am
You know, Joe….
The sarcasm in defense of Mark Dominik is beneath you and really dirties up your little man-crush you have on him.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:44 am
@THETRUTH I don’t know if Joe allows twitter account exchanges on his comments page, but if he does it’s @Nate_tweetz and I follow JoeBucsFan.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:46 am
SC:
Yet these same fans who beat their chest that they “can see” look the other way when Schiano ran four defensive linemen he could have kept for depth that combined have 17 sacks this year. Instead, these same clear-sighted fans blame Dominik … for somehow running them off!!
smdh
October 30th, 2013 at 9:48 am
It’s the fans who want to blame the Dominik for the 2009 draft.
… because he didn’t draft ONE player worth keeping.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:50 am
It’s the fans who want to blame Dominik for resigning Michael Clayton.
….despite his previous performances that somehow was worth $10mill guaranteed.
October 30th, 2013 at 9:55 am
Harry, your comments are good. Its a good debate. But I go back to the question from a few threads ago. If you think Rockstar or teflon Dom as Oil Derrick likes it is intentionally given more oversight by the Glazers to prevent a Gruden steamrolling siutation again….Then how does Dom not get credit for any of the mistakes that have been made. IE Bennett. This is the shell game. 2 drafts don’t make a team. Its the entire sum of your actions and there have been a ton of mistakes right there with the good decisions.
We had the #1 run defense in the league last year and we let two of those guys go in free agency. How is that not on the GM???
October 30th, 2013 at 9:58 am
Wow- another Dom screw up today!!
We just signed CB Bobby Felder, who was cut by Vikings this week.
Felder didn’t play for Rutgers!!!he played for Nichols!
Man, Schiano is gonna be pissed!! This guy won’t know what kinda pasta to eat!
October 30th, 2013 at 9:58 am
Dominick’s greatest failure was his inability to get rid of Freeman in the off season….I believe he tried….he had a coach that wanted the QB change….but he failed.
We ultimately had no Veteran starter….got rid of Freeman mid-season and got absolutely nothing for him.
I do think his last two drafts have been much better…but how do we know that it is Dominick rather than Schiano/Davis influence?
October 30th, 2013 at 9:59 am
“Yet these same fans who beat their chest that they “can see” look the other way when Schiano ran four defensive linemen he could have kept for depth that combined have 17 sacks this year. Instead, these same clear-sighted fans blame Dominik … for somehow running them off!!
smdh”
Show me one single post on this site saying keep Schiano and fire Dominick. I blame Dominick because he hired Schiano, and for not MAN-A-GING his hire.
Get it? General Manager implies you are in charge. Schiano is not Dominick’s boss. If Dominick had a problem with how Schiano was coaching the personnel that he brought him, then what did he do about it?
It’s clear who has the big balls around 1BP. And it’s not the Teflon Dom.
Dominick future is in a McKay administrative cap role. That’s his strength. In a way, I blame the Glazers for letting this charade go on so long.
Hire a real GM. Let him hire a coach who knows who is the top dog.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:00 am
SC:
As cheap as Bennett was, don’t you think if Schiano wanted Bennett back — mind you, Bennett wanted to stay with the Bucs — Dominik wouldn’t have signed him?
If Schiano wanted a cheap player who wanted to stay with the team and Dominik balked, you don’t think Schiano would have gone screaming to Bryan Glazer and gotten his wish?
October 30th, 2013 at 10:03 am
Joe:
Yet these same fans who beat their chest that they “can see” look the other way when Schiano ran four defensive linemen he could have kept for depth that combined have 17 sacks this year. Instead, these same clear-sighted fans blame Dominik … for somehow running them off!
I totally agree which is why I didnt mention the line. We are talking about 2 guys though. Jones and Gilberry. Selvie never suited up and we did not offer Bennett a contract. Commish swears that Bennett wanted to say, I saw interviews with Bennett saying he wanted to stay. Just becuase he talks smack about the coach now does not mean that we offered him a contract and he turned it down becuase of the coach. And if your point is that we didnt offer him a contract becuase coach said “not a schiano guy” then we are back to the same conversation. If coach is making personal decisions, how do we know that he wasnt the driving force behind Barron, Martin and David. The tandy, Goode picks certainly have his fingerprints all over it…
October 30th, 2013 at 10:03 am
I will admit… Dominick’s drafts have gotten better. And I do not want to sound like the guy has been completely useless, because he hasn’t. It has taken him a couple years of experience and a few years of draft picks high in the order to get the player personnel to look encouraging. If I’m not mistaken, I think Dom spent many years working in player personnel and scouting for the Bucs before he became the GM. He has improved over the years on that front. I guess 5 years as a GM is still relatively young.
However, his time to learn from his mistakes has to be limited. His learning curve has to be nearing an end. his acquisition of coaches speaks for itself. If we are going to shift coaching hire blame on to the Glazers then we need to have a GM here that is allowed to hire the coach. However, I DO think Dom has the hiring power and he has failed in the area of coaching hires.
The other issues with Dom, I have mentioned and others have mentioned and I don’t want to be redundant. I will just say this… Either Dominick has to be fired or He needs to continue to learn, adjust, and adapt QUICKLY in order to fix what ails this team. I believe (and I’m sure Mark Dominick does too) that there are things that Dom can do and has the power to do in order to get this team in the right direction. If that is the case, then that means to this point, he has not done enough and has made far too many mistakes.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:05 am
SC:
As cheap as Bennett was, don’t you think if Schiano wanted Bennett back — mind you, Bennett wanted to stay with the Bucs — Dominik wouldn’t have signed him?
If Schiano wanted a cheap player who wanted to stay with the team and Dominik balked, you don’t think Schiano would have gone screaming to Bryan Glazer and gotten his wish?
Its a good point. No I don’t think that. 5 million for a 1 year deal is not cheap. We dont’ know what he wanted in a long term deal. Maybe that was expensive and he was forced to take a 1 yr deal somewhere else. Woudl certainly explain why he is pissed at the bucs. Its a good point though…
October 30th, 2013 at 10:07 am
The roster is much improved compared to the roster under Raheem. Yes, Dominik was the architect of that roster too, but the decision was made to build through the draft. The few free agents signed during the Raheem era didn’t pan out (Clayton, Ward, Nugent, Smith). The drafts during this time didn’t produce a nucleus of talent either. Freeman, Benn, Price, Bowers, Lewis were all taken with premium picks with not much return on the investment.
The mindset of how to build the team was changed when Schiano was hired. It was a decision made to either lure a head coach, appease a disappointed fan base or otherwise. The free agent spending ramped up and the drafts produced better results. Maybe Dominik learned from mistakes. Maybe the college and pro scouting departments were feeding him better information. Who knows?
The bottom line is the team hasn’t produced wins. At the end of the day, that’s all that matters. Bad coaching certainly has something to do with it. Maybe it’s the wrong combination of players and scheme, which would suggest the GM and head coach aren’t on the same page. 0-7 is 0-7. When there’s a season this bad, everyone gets blamed.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:08 am
SC:
Joe firmly believes Schiano has final say on the roster, as most NFL coaches do. That doesn’t mean he runs personnel. Schiano’s a control guy. If he didn’t have control of the roster (Rutgers players, you know) Schiano wouldn’t be here.
Dominik is still the guy, for better or worse, in charge of obtaining talent. Then Schiano decides if he keeps them or not. Schiano has said many times he doesn’t run the draft. Does he have input? Joe can’t think of an NFL coach that doesn’t. Hell, even Raheem had input in the draft.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:10 am
natenazty : good point !!! offense coordinator is huge problem, i coached offense for middle school and took them to playoffs, the previous year my offenseve coach was terrible and blew the season.. go Falcon!!! (FMS)
October 30th, 2013 at 10:13 am
Fact is I like Dom. I like a number of the things he has done and I am ok with the concept that he is improving in his role. Whats past is past. Its all about comparing our current situation to our options for change. There are 32 other teams in the NFL with talented people everywhere, so our options are huge.
In business, when a particular company or dept underperforms for to long, the person running that department is replaced. 5 years seems to be a long time in the NFL when the results are bad.
The coach is gone…point blank. Talking about Dom is the next thing.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:17 am
“Dominik is still the guy, for better or worse, in charge of obtaining talent. Then Schiano decides if he keeps them or not”
This is a weakest GM in the league. He has 18 years of pro personnel experience, and he hired a guy with zero pro personnel and then he, the GM has to listen to what the coach wants, bottom line?
Flat out embarrassing.
Show me coaches with no experience in the league who are telling the experienced GM who to keep. This is not Sean Payton working with Loomis. This is Schiano telling Dominick….
No matter what the scenario, the GM is weak. Weak.
But, it fits with being the Teflon Dom. It’s so easy for him to hide from the accountability this way.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:23 am
I call BS. It’s both Schiano’s fault and Dom’s fault. “Best laid plans always go to waste”, There was no Plan B or C. Always hope for the best and expect the worst. Limited serviceable Depth at almost every position is just as much Dom’s fault as it is Schiano’s for being a crappy coach. Not to mention Dom hired this fool and the last and fired Gruden. Rock star my butt. Looking forward to our top pick in the draft, hopefully made by a PROVEN coach. Go Bucs!
October 30th, 2013 at 10:31 am
BETTER QUESTION FOR JOE and probably more relevant. What are the odds that the next coach comes in and doesnt want his own personal person to replace Dom? Isnt that kind of standard if you are trying to attract a top notch coach???
Absolutely, the GM is a factor in hiring the new head coach, on various levels. –Joe
October 30th, 2013 at 10:38 am
I’m not going to parrot Oil Derrick Brooks, he keeps on making great points.
The bottom line is at the end of the season this whole regime has to go, that means both coach & GM. If Dom doesn’t have the control that we all think he has, who’s fault is that? He needs to go regardless because we need someone who knows what they’re doing in that position making the football decisions. If Dom doesn’t have final say like a proper GM should, then it’s obvious ownership does not trust him with this responsibility.
So in other words, he needs to be let go and ownership needs to bring in someone they trust to make the final decisions. Because basically what I am reading from Joe is that Dom is a puppet (which I’m not buying). Long way from being a “rockstar.”
October 30th, 2013 at 11:10 am
“Joe: The GMs job is to acquire talent”
You, me, and everyone else knows that his job is more than that. I would post some links, but, it’s not hard to Google what a GM’s job responsibilities are but, besides talent, they need to be a leader, and they need a strong personality to deal with the coach.
Here’s a quote for you Joe:
“Basically, you have a general manager of personnel — is that going to be your No. 1 thing?” says Charley Casserly, an NFL Network analyst and former GM of the Houston Texans and Washington Redskins. “His job is to make the final decisions on the players. Most GMs in the league have a strong personnel background, scouting in college or the pros or both. We have to define what we want there. What’s the point of emphasis for the position?”
Who has final say in TB?
October 30th, 2013 at 11:13 am
Bryan and Joel Glazer.
October 30th, 2013 at 11:30 am
From my reading, Casserly is talking about players.
I will just focus on watching FSU from here on out if the Brothers Glazer are making any decisions on talent.
The single exception being Freeman, I can see them being involved to a degree in that.
I just don’t get how an inexperienced coach with no background in evaluating NFL personnel could have even equal footing with a GM who has been in pro personnel since 1995.
Unconscionable.
October 30th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
The franchise record holder in passing yards and passing TD’s last year is a flop? I guess everyone before him was even more terrible. Especially with the O-Line / Defense last year.
Same ones demanding Steve Young be gone of course.
October 30th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
@Joe: “Clear thinking and objective analysis in these comments will win you few friends.”
I agree. I learned that very clearly when everyone was wanting Gruden back, commenting on your article of a few days ago. Apparently, people forget all of the horrendous drafts he oversaw thru the puppet of Bruce Allen. People either have a very short memory, or more likely, a selective one. Keep up the good stuff Joe.
October 30th, 2013 at 2:15 pm
24-47.
October 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
@SCKelly22 and everyone else….
Lets forget for a moment its the Bucs we are talking about, and we are just discussing any business entity. Very few ppl in an organization have complete autonomy. Good managers seek the opinion of others in order to make the best decisions. And does anyone think Dom does not want Schiano or Morris to be successful? So when Dom is drafting, he is talking to Schiano, Butch, and his scouts to get all the relevant input he can to make the best choice. But no doubt, ultimately he is responsible for putting the best draft picks and free agents on the roster. And, as I said, he sucked in his first two years. If you want to give Butch or Schiano credit for the last two years when clearly Dom knows he is on a short leash, you are not going to listen to reason anyway.
I believe, it is as Joe has written: Schiano has final say over the roster; Dominik over personnel. And that is the way it should be – a separation of powers if you will. Take Blount as an example. Dom worked hard to get Blount; identified him early, then stole him. Do any of you think Dom was happy about giving him away to the Pats? Blount gained over 1,000 yards starting 7 games in 2010; then almost 800 yards in 14 games in ’11. He could not be a quality backup to Martin in ’12 & ’13??? That was all Schiano pushing his a$$ out the door.
Its all there if you want to see it; some of you just don’t. If Ozzie Newsome got fired this year, or just wanted a change of scenery, I’d fire Dom in a heartbeat to get him. But the Bucs could do MUCH worse than having Dom as their GM. I think Dom may have the potential to be a real Rock Star; there are still question, but only time will tell.
October 30th, 2013 at 3:13 pm
@Harry
In short, we vastly disagree.
As we will know with Freeman and other players, I say we will know the truth in a few years whether Dominick is good or simply mediocre.
Time will tell us the truth.
October 30th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
Harry I get what you are saying. My point with the biz analogy is that the top dog can only fire so many underlings before he starts to take the blame instead and I kind of think, for many people at least, that is what this is all about.
Its interesting though. Your point on Blount is well taken and if you and Joe are right that Dom keeps finding diamonds in the rough….Penn, Blount, Bennett, Freeman, etc. and the coach keeps ruining them or sending them away, then as Oil Derrick says, he really is a weak weak GM to keep getting steamrolled.
If Dom does stick around we need to start calling him Nine Lives DOM.
October 30th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
@ Harry
If you want to give Butch or Schiano credit for the last two years when clearly Dom knows he is on a short leash, you are not going to listen to reason anyway.
No, No. I like Dom and have up until this year, really thought he was one of the better drafters. I started bringing up Schiano’s influence on the recent drafts as a result of what I thought was an unrealistic evaluation of Dom’s performance. I just doesn’t pass the smell test to give him credit for these fantastic drafts, then absolve him of poor free agent decisions. So I started asking, how much influence does the coaching group have on the players we selected that we love so much.
October 30th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
@SKelly:
I agree, Dom is responsible for ALL FA he brings in, including those like Eric Wright to VJ and Nicks. But if it is a FA the Coach does not want resigned, someone like Bennett (and I am a Bennett fan), and he does not get along with the coach, how do you keep him, thus undermining your coach?
October 30th, 2013 at 6:08 pm
I guess you don’t. I still find it hard to believe that Schiano would have ran bennett out of 1buc. i think its much more likely that Dom was managing the cap, felt like bowers could replace and didnt offer him a long term deal.
The reality is Schiano is a total disaster and as a fan, not that i get a vote, I would like to know as much as I can about who is responsible for what.
I am not as big a hater as some on Dom and not as big of a fan as Joe. Just more in the middle looking to be swayed.
October 30th, 2013 at 6:10 pm
Joe you need to stop the biased ass reporting you do..Get over the fact you weren’t given the opportunity to interview Freeman after he got benched and he gave it to ESPN.. The stories have not STOPPED since Freeman left they all continue to come out.. From MRSA to former players talking shit about Schiano.. To them using Revis the wrong way.
October 30th, 2013 at 7:33 pm
Harry,
Yeah I’d definitely take Gruden back in a heartbeat. Talk about rockstars.
Where have you been the last 5 years?
October 30th, 2013 at 8:16 pm
SKelly:
My theory on Bennett, is that he voiced his opinion and challenged the coaching staff. Maybe something stronger than that. Schiano couldn’t or wouldn’t deal with it, and told Dom not to resign him. I have coached and some players can be difficult to manage, but that is the biggest part of your job! Hell, look at Phil Jackson. I don’t love the guy, but he is a wizard at managing personalities; who knows how much basketball he actually knows, lol. Schiano comes across to me as stubborn and set in his ways. He does not learn from his mistakes. Another example is Blunt. You know he was crying about playing time – going from 1,000 yds rushing, to 800 yds, to NOTHING. Why would anyone trade away freaking Blount for a 7th rd pick and a box of chocolates? Schiano again.
@JS:
I love Gruden as a coach, really good. But he would demand having final say over personnel and he sucks at it. Granted, I think 20+ teams would give him full control, so he should demand it. But it is a bad idea. I have been a Bucs fan for over 20 years, and I remember clearly when he got rid of Rich McKay (who supplied all of the talent Gruden won the Superbowl with), and how little talent there was on the roster once Gruden got fired. That was all Gruden; Bruce Allen did as Gruden told him, that is how he got his job.
October 30th, 2013 at 10:47 pm
Yeah I remember Rich McKay also. The guy who put us into salary cap hell, bolted for the Falcons, and got demoted there because he was incompetent. I think he’s in charge of the fan experience at the games now, nice. I’m not saying Gruden was perfect and it’s no secret he loved every player who wasn’t on his roster.
That being said, even with his so/so talent evaluation, he was still able to field a competitive team during his time here.
Let’s not forget him and Allen were fired after getting the team out of salary cap hell and telling the Glazer’s they were going into the off season ready to bring in top dollar free agents.
That promptly got them blown out as the Glazer’s were too busy penny pinching at the time due to their investment across the pond.
So I don’t see what the problem is in pining after Chucky considering what has happened since he left.
October 30th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
If Bruce and Jon were such bad talent evaluators how did they win two Division Titles and have three winning seasons in the four years they worked together here?
And how can their talent evaluation be worse than dominik who has zero playoffs and one winning season?
Oh that’s right, results on the field are irrelevant. It’s the feelie goodie subjective opinions that matter.
Or it’s everyone’s else’s fault except dominik. Yea, that’s credible.
October 31st, 2013 at 9:06 am
@JS:
McKay was with the Bucs for over 10 years. He should get all of the credit for the talent that was on this team when they won the SB in ’02. McKay did not “bolt” from the Bucs; Gruden forced him out; then added his buddy Bruce Allen. As far as salary cap hell, that occurred in ’04, the year after McKay left. But yes, he would have most of the responsibility for that. However, lets keep in mind, we just won a SB. Most teams in the position to win a SB have a lot of veterans on the team and will likely have to watch the salary cap. I personally think Ozzie Newsome is a real Rock Star, and most of the league does as well. The Ravens just won a SB and had to let go of a number of key vets to stay under the salary cap – much like we let go of Lynch and Sapp. So I wouldn’t say us having salary cap issues makes McKay incompetent; I would give him credit for building a roster for a SB contender. (ERIC – that is results on the field).
I get the pining for Chucky. He is a great coach. I loved to watch him on the Bucs sideline, watching his face turn into “Chucky”, LOL. I would also love to have him back, but not have power over personnel decisions. I don’t think any coach should have the kind of power. Coach’s are supposed to win NOW. That is not a good philosophy for building a team roster. So for me, that would eliminate any coach who would want that authority, including Cowher who I think is also a great coach. In thinking about, there are always exceptions – Jimmy Johnson comes to mind when in Dallas, he was freaking amazing, he created the point system still used to make draft pick trades. But did not blend well with Marino in Miami.
@Eric:
I give credit where credit is due. I said Dom sucked his first year or two but has greatly improved since. Gruden won with talent he picked, which almost everyone agrees was average at best. That just shows what a great coach he is. Because Dom’s first cpl of years were not so great, he definitely has contributed to the current problem. But he is NOT coaching. There is way too much talent on the Bucs for us to have won 1 game of the past 12, especially after having a “top 9” offense in the middle of last year – what the hell changed?
October 31st, 2013 at 9:07 am
Man, that was way too long. I should just rant like most ppl on here and keep it short, lol