“7, 8 And Even 9 In The Box”
October 4th, 2013Doug Martin says the Bucs knew what the vaunted and feared Arizona Cardinals defense was going to do last Sunday in the 13-10 debacle at the Stadium on Dale Mabry Highway. But the Bucs just couldn’t stop them.
Martin explained on the Buccaneers Radio Network this week that the Bucs were ready but not able.
“They loaded that box. We knew that comin’ in. There was seven, eight, even nine in the box. We knew that they were going to do that coming into the game,” Martin said. “There was always one guy unblocked. You know, they did a good job swarming to the ball and getting off blocks. We just got outplayed.”
Martin had one of the worst days in history for a Bucs running back, 27 carries for 45 yards and many runs for negative yardage. But the Bucs kept pounding away. Some might say Tampa Bay took on the stubborn mentality of its head coach.
Greg Schiano said this week that the Bucs’ offensive line is still gelling, given that Carl Nicks and Davin Joseph are still getting back into top condition. However, Joe’s not sure that will make a ton of difference against teams that insist on making Mike Glennon beat them.
The rookie QB has really been thrown into the fire.
October 4th, 2013 at 10:58 am
Too many rushes for Doug. Why do we have Mike James and Brian Leonard if we aren’t going to use them? If only for varieities sake it’d be nice to see them on first or second down rather than Doug.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:01 am
We need to get Demps more touches…I am encouraged that Glennon completed 10 passes to TE/3rd WR…..Getting our RBs in space helps.
A set with a single back & 4 WRs & TE should get the job done.
I think having Lorig in the game is a signal of a run with Martin.
Let Glennon throw on 1st & 10 more often. It take a great deal of pressure off him.
Last week we had a 1st & 5 and ran….that was a perfect time for a downfield pass…worst we woud have would be 2nd and 5 with an incompletion.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:06 am
” But the Bucs kept pounding away.”
Whether it works or not you have to try. There is such a thing as overkill though.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:07 am
I’ll be your huckleberry Joe. That game plan was vintage schiano. Don’t care what the defense is doing or how effective our plan is, we have our plan and we’re going to keep doing it until it works.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:09 am
Welcome to the NFL
October 4th, 2013 at 11:09 am
And how many times did we run nearly identical plays right up the middle with those stacked boxes? Genius…
October 4th, 2013 at 11:12 am
Bad game planning. Stacking the box creates opportunities the Bucs offense is either unequipped or refuses to prepare for. “Play better” is not the answer. You gotta feel sorry for the position these guys are in. No wonder they seem to play with less than a winning effort.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:14 am
What a bum coach. Maybe the gameplan was vanilla so the eagles didnt have tape. Maybe the bucs are self scouting there way to losses.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:15 am
its good to finally hear some talk about actual football for a change. we all know this is a copy cat league, so with that in mind plus having a rookie QB playing, I expect to see defenses load the box more times than not for the rest of the season. teams are probably going to try and force us to beat them with the the passing game. I know this goes contrary to what we originally planned to do, but I think we need to see a LOT more shotgun. will be interesting to see if thats what we do moving forward.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:19 am
at the same time though playing more shotgun is going to put our QB in situations you dont necessarily want to put a rookie QB in. its a tough situation, good luck coaches.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am
The Bucs need to re-tool-tweak the entire playbook. I wish they would just look at what other successful offenses are doing in the NFL and emulate some of that. Actually they should have already done that in the offseason.
Capt. Tim is right on this aspect. It’s the same offense that started the losing last season. I don’t really know if it’s “Rutgers” though. As I’m sure Sully does have some input on the offense. If not why keep Sully around then? Whatever reason, if it’s not working they better fix it. If Schiano has his hands all over the offense then he needs to back off from it.
Oh well it’s wait and see for the next 9 days. Cue the theme music from jeopardy.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:28 am
If we take more shots with Glennon and he fails….he will be blamed/Rookie QB etc…but if we keep doing what we are doing, Sully/Schiano will be blamed.
I think changing the offensive scheme is one thing all Buc fans agree on….that in itself should warrant a change.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:31 am
@ Tampabaybucfan
“If we take more shots with Glennon and he fails….he will be blamed/Rookie QB etc…but if we keep doing what we are doing, Sully/Schiano will be blamed.”
excellent point. its just tough all the way around.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:37 am
Schiano had plenty of opportunities to make adjustments during the game. He didn’t do it. He’s either stubborn to a fault or he can’t recognize a problem and fix it. It’s been the same story every game so far.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:38 am
its a bye week though, so Im hoping beyond all hope the we can find something, anything that will help get this offense rolling. maybe try something that has worked for other teams like Buc1987 suggested.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:42 am
@Birddoggers
Actually this didn’t start with Schiano…we have done this for years…Run, Run, Pass Punt….trying to establish the pass by running.
My wife has quit watching because she says it is so predictable & it has been for many years.
There was one point with Olsen that he got creative….got burnt and went right back to the Gruden…remember “POUND THE ROCK”
October 4th, 2013 at 11:44 am
It’s called not having a 3WR or tight end to threaten vertically. No team in their right mind would do that to a Victor Cruz or a competent explosive WR that can get vertical fast and oh yeah catch the ball!
October 4th, 2013 at 11:47 am
Using Demps in the slot would change some things…even to dump a short pass to him in space. Defenses would have to cover him.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:48 am
1976 Déjà vu
October 4th, 2013 at 11:55 am
U guys don’t know schiano is stubborn
That why Blount didn’t get carries last
Year it had nothing to do with his blocking
October 4th, 2013 at 11:56 am
Bulldog…actually the 1976 Bucs gave up like 30 pts a game on defense. The offense on the other hand is matching the 76 Bucs so far.
October 4th, 2013 at 11:59 am
Yes Schiano is stubborn, but I’m sure he’s smart enough to figure out that what they are doing on offense is not working. It’s no secret to everyone involved. Of course then again he did say a couple of weeks back that what they have in place right now does work and those words scare me.
October 4th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
it’s not stubborn exactly, because usually if you keep running the ball, it pays off late in the game. They should have done that with Alstott back in the day more than they did, and he’d have had Jerome Bettis numbers.
If they are putting 8 in the box, let alone 9, you should be able to beat it with play-action (which they tried), receivers who beat their man, and a QB that can spot the mismatch and get it there. My guess is the QB we have can’t do that.
Look, accuracy and reading defenses is going to be a problem for Glennon. He’s a replica of Freeman, only he’s not the least bit mobile, but is probably a better leader. Not sure that’s enough to make him a winner.
People will laugh when I say Tebow is the best chance for the Bucs to win, but I really think it’s true for now until the Bucs can draft a new QB or sign one in FA somehow.
October 4th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
TBBF,
That’s the point and they aren’t imaginative or adjustable in the middle of the game – that’s one of many problems.
I would like to Glazers to interview Josh McDaniels from NE for a second stint as a NFL HC. His offense is balanced and he has NFL experience. He had solid drafts in Denver except Tebow.
He would need to bring in his own GM or someone from the Patriots organization.
October 4th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
@ Architek
There may be a host of interviewees……but that won’t likely happen until the end of the season..
October 4th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
@TBBF and 1987,
Do you all see my logic and my rationale behind that type of HC?
These old coordinators and prehistoric offenses are just dated and we keep going with this old way do doing things and expect new results.
McDaniels was a idea because he knows how to win – adjust his system for personnel and not piss off the league with stupid insignificant victory formation playcalling. He reminds me of a younger Sean Payton that just needs his qb and then he becomes the extension of the qb on the field.
I also say we go after cousins in Washington unless we want to scrap this roster!
October 4th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Stubborn overkill is right. I wonder if they train Doug to play in a 9 player box situation. Probably not. A short-pass offense would work better in this situation.
October 4th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Architek…oh of course I see your logic behind wanting a O-minded coach. It worked for the Bucs before ala Gruden. If the D continues to shut teams down this season like they have been and the O never gets any better. It’s quite possible that the Bucs will look for an offensive minded coach. Like the I said the formula is proven. Also in order to keep the likes of Revis and bring in new FA’s I think they will have to make a HC change. Like TBBF I just don’t see that happening until the season is over.
October 4th, 2013 at 12:34 pm
Joe it is quite easy to see the differences in coaching. Other teams adjust at half time and we don’t. They complete passes against our best across the middle and we don’t, in fact we don’t complete most passes because almost ever 1st down is a run up the middle, than a pass, then a run up the middle, then, except for a punt, a run up the middle.
I don’t know who is calling the plays or directing the way we go and I don’t care but the owners of the team can’t be this dumb and the cost of all those tickets and Freeman’s salary isn’t lost on them because if they don’t do something, who will go see them next year?
Since I don’t have access to who is doing what, someone that does needs to. Oh, if our receivers are so good, why are they not open like the other teams in the second half or even the first half? How come other OLs keep us out and ours doesn’t? I know the two guards are coming back, but I was watching Penn get consistently beat for some reason and I don’t know why, do you?
Joe you are an insider, what is going on?
October 4th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
7,8, or 9 in the box. Good time for a audible. O thats right the Dictator doesn’t allow his QB to audible! Amazing!
October 4th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
BACK TO FOOTBALL!!! Thank you Joe!
October 4th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
With all due respect to Joe for writing it and Doug Martin for saying it, “and this is news to whom?” Well perhaps too many Bucs fans who it’s becoming increasingly obvious don’t really know the game, need to be told this piece of Football 101. Let’s see some football 101: Excellent to Great Running Back + Rookie to not so great QB = Load the box to stop the run and make quarterback beat you. If the QB can beat you – you lose, if not they lose. Duh!!
October 4th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
To win, Tampa has to transport itself into the present and adopt a balanced offense with a short, intermediate, and long passing game and respectable running attack that hits more than one hole. Not sure they can install all that in two weeks.
October 4th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
We need to do more “self-scouting” than scouting…the problem is…I think we know what the problem is…we are trying to overcome it instead of going around it.
Doug Martin…up the gut….”Pound the Rock”…I say…Martin & Demps to the outside…but mostly…Glennon downfield…..at least 3 WRs in the set at all times.
October 4th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
I remember seeing an interview on nfl dot com with schiano and he says he hand picks plays that he thinks wont work on defense offense and special teams and tosses them out of the game plan/playbook. He should back up and let our talented roster do what they are paid to do. I dont know if glennon can handle deep throws in a regular season but in the preseason he threaded some nice passes. Josh was my favorite buc qb but hes gone now. Ill be a fan but its bucs first. Glennon needs to go out and do it fu ck the words of encouragement bro sling the ball confidence comes from experience. Audible if u have to tell schiano to suck it cuz if the play you call works what can he do? Bench you?
October 4th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Rick its probably already in their playbook. They dont need to run that formation all game. Its gotta be used to show that they can pass and run from any formation.
October 4th, 2013 at 1:34 pm
So Mussolini refuses to, or more likely is inacapable of, adjusting the game plan? Color me shocked. Worst part is he already ruined our chances at a promsing young QB and now he’ll ruin Doug if he keeps running him into the ground like this. Worst. Coach. Ever.
October 4th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Like I said time and time again, this moron flushed the season down the toilet when he benched Freeman……Glennon gives this team zero chance to win! He did the same Bullspit last year when he shipped Talib out mid season. Until the Glazers send this idiot and his crew packing, get nice and comfy as Coach Bozo sets the team back to the Yucs era!
October 4th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
I appreciate the guy in section 315 Row A who yelled down to Mike Sullivan “Sullivan, youre and idiot”. Summed up my opinon as well on many plays that made no sense. Sitting where I was you could see the box loaded and a run formation in place. What a joke.
October 4th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
@DCBUCS,
You are wrong – we were defeated in the preseason!
October 4th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
The inability to make adjustments is either stubborn or incompetent.
BTW, let’s not lay all the blame on the OC and HC. The OL and WR’s weren’t exactly getting it done either.
I’ll say this again. Team fail.
October 4th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
If we had Payton M. the we wouldn’t have a stacked box. Until we have a respected qb or a better offense and game plan we will not be winning. What else is there to say?
October 4th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
@ Black – there are numerous parts missing from this toy! No downfield threat, (Vjax and M. Will are possession receivers) no TE to work the middle- and to add those absent components, you have a rookie thats not accurate on the fly route!
October 4th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
1987 , wow. That changes the whole picture. So if the Bucs lose the next 12 games and go win less in a season it won’t matter as long as the loss is less than 30 points a game. What wisdom. Got it ,thanks Yoda. 🙂
October 4th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
I was at the game Sunday and noticed how the stadium was half full. Glad it was not the Saints as their fans show up in mass. Defense played a great game as always. Sitting in the upper deck Row B I could easily see the box loaded, the Cardinals knew what was coming, they were ready the whole second half. It seems to be a theme in every game, our opponet goes into the locker room at half time and comes out with an adjusted game plan that we cannot overcome or adjust to. Can we really be that easy to figure out? I see Schiano gone by week 9 if we go winless. Our next four games – Eagles, Flacons, Panthers, Seahawks. Best chance for a win is the Eagles, I dont like our chances in the other three games.
October 4th, 2013 at 2:51 pm
It’s what happens when your opponent doesn’t respect your QB – or your head coach.
It’s what happens when the head coach doesn’t know that the regular season is different than the pre-season – and neither his offensive strategy, or his gameplan changes FROM what he called, the way he calleed it, with the QB he thought lit up pre-season.
It’s what happens when you don’t have ANY QB on your roster that have EVER won in the NFL.
It’s what every high school coach knows – if the other guy doesn’t think your QB is any good, isn’t reading the field, and is only throwing to certain points – and that the receivers aren’t running routes correctly.
If the other guy KNOWS all you have is a run game – and SHOWS you he’s going to stop it by stacking the line of scrimmage in order to STOP your run game – and neither you, your OC, or your QB tries to do anything about it – it means none of those guys are good enough to do their jobs.
See – I’ve said the same thing multiple ways – it all comes down to one thing. If you think this team is going on a “run” and will involve “12 straight”….you can BET that’s EXACTLY what’s going to happen…
…only I don’t think it means what he thinks it means…
October 4th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
It seems clear to me that our record will be worse than last year. I believe the key is winning against a couple of really good teams like SF, ATL, MIA…..if we can do that and win a few others and be competitive….and…and this is a big and…Schiano keeps the intensity on Defense…I think he makes it another year.
That is a tall order that I’m doubtful….but hopeful…he will fill!
October 4th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
I’m curious to know who our coach will be next year?
October 4th, 2013 at 3:28 pm
This is a direct quote from NFL X and so expert, Greg Bedard
“And, in what has been a Greg Schiano staple since his Rutgers days, the Buccaneers’ scheme is outdated, unimaginative and too reliant on short plays. The short and intermediate passing game that is so crucial in today’s NFL is essentially nonexistent in Tampa’s system. It’s difficult to win without it. ”
Don’t know what to add to that. This was posted here yesterday, under “Rutgers offense”.
The idiots will blame whatever QB we have playing. But it’s obvious that the scheme is the Problem
Schianos scheme.
The above quote is not from some reporter. It is a guy who analysis offensive systems.
The entire article was posted two days ago, here on JoeBuc.
You all should read it
October 4th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
I’m not buying into this “passing league” mantra. Time and again it has been proven beyond doubt that you win with defense and a good running game. Do I believe they need to throw in some wrinkles? Of course! Just remember that we have not been “blown out” in any game this year. Heck, we even had the Patriots backpedalling.
Another “simple” formula: If the Bucs have the football, the other team cannot score.
Side note: Lets not get too crazy over Jeff Demps just yet. Speed is great but SMART speed kills!
October 4th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
You all should also goggle” NFL exec says Shiano is a Bully.
White Tiger posted that.
I know we all love this team. And have different(passionate) opinions on what is best for the team.
But if you read those two articles- I think we can all agree that Schiano is not who we where told he was!
October 4th, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Schiano is a good defensive coach / coordinator. He is pretty much Dungy-Lite. We have tools on offense but no one to coach them. We need an offense minded coach. Get rid of Sullivan.
October 4th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Bucsfanman, I agree but add to your list “Control the line of scrimmage”. Something our guys have yet to do for a full game this year. I watched Penn get his @$$ handed to him Sunday.
October 4th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Out of Demps, Underwood, Owusu and Shepard we ought to be able to get a good 3rd WR. If Crabtree or Wright can be the receiving TE we desperately need then we have a chance of getting a good passing game going and making teams abandon the “stack the box” mentality. I’m hoping to see some definite signs of improvement in our passing game next time, if not we are in for a long year.
October 4th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
If you’ll notice, all Glennon did was take the short routes that they say isn’t in our offensive plan. It’s not that they aren’t there, it’s just that Freeman rarely took them because he did not go through his progressions. He threw way too many over the shoulder routes to the sidelines when we only needed 7 or 8 yds. He locked onto a receiver and that was it. Glennon has already shown me that It’s not that there isn’t short routes in the playbook, it’s that we don’t have a TE or 3rd receiver to throw to who can consistently get open and catch the ball when they do. I thinking getting Demps more involved is crucial and if Crabtree gets healthy again this offense could look completely different. We just have to run more play action on first and second down to keep them from stacking the box so much. Those who say this is Schiano’s offense are crazy. Even when they interviewed the QB from Rutgers he said Schiano hardly ever showed up on the offensive side during practice, he was always with the defense.
October 5th, 2013 at 5:59 am
Yes Doug, we all knew what the Cardinals would do. But only one person was too stubborn to outsmart the opponent. Instead of taking advantage of the pass at will opportunities presented, Mr Schiano thought it best to gain less than two yards a pop by slamming you into the line. If his chosen QB is incapable of throwing for more than two yards per pass attempt; then I suppose it was a sound game plan. Let’s see what Professor Schiano cooks up against the Eagles who already know the formula for an easy victory. If Chef Schiano cooks up his signature recipe again, it’s going to leave another bad taste in our mouths.