Was Lavonte David Taught The Rules?
September 9th, 2013
Courtesy of BusinessInsider.com
ProFootballTalk.com guru Mike Florio dug deep into the Lavonte David penalty that cost the Bucs the win yesterday, the Sabby moment that has been debated hotly.
It was a stupid play by David and, per ProFootballTalk.com, it definitely was against the rules.
Per a league source, the NFL’s position on plays of that nature is that, if a guy is running out of bounds, any forceful pushing or shoving will be viewed as unnecessary roughness.
It’s similar to the slide. The player in that situation is giving himself up.
If Smith had been running along the sidelines, he would have been fair game. But he was clearly running out of bounds.
So if, as David said after the game, he believes Smith was in bounds, it shows that David simply doesn’t understand the rules. Yes, Smith was in bounds. But he was going out of bounds, and he shouldn’t have been shoved.
It means that he either hasn’t been taught the rules properly, or that he ignored the information the team provided to him.
Was David taught the rule? Is it possible that the leader of the New Schiano Order didn’t teach the leader of his defense, the playcaller, the rules of the game?
Joe doesn’t know the answer. Regardless, The Bucs displayed undisciplined football from their first offensive series to their final defensive series. The celebrated “culture change” didn’t show up yesterday.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:43 am
Yes Schiano should of taught them and prepared them, oh btw Drew Brees is coming to town ..
I thinks it’s Freeman’s fault Lavonte didn’t know …:)
September 9th, 2013 at 10:44 am
I guess when Davin Joseph held a guy by his shirt, Schiano must not of relayed that rule properly to Joseph.
Gee, if only David wouldn’t have made that bonehead play, we’d all be searching for Super Bowl accomodations today cuz everything else was so rosy.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:45 am
One Game…. over reaction…LOL
September 9th, 2013 at 10:47 am
Joe, I’m sorry. I was wrong, and you were spot-on with your analysis yesterday (and again today). LVD’s play cost us a win (and yes, the whole team should have played better for the first 59:45 of that game and not allowed the Jets an opportunity to steal a win) and it’s unfortunate that one of our better, underrated players is now known nationally for one stupid mistake. And we (along with half the league) are now 0-1.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:48 am
I think schiano looks lost as a coach.. I believe our team is very good but he lost us that game.. sum1 needs to be fired if we have a losing season.. either mark or schiano im leaning towards both.. and let freeman walk next year.. bring in a new coach and qb in the draft..
September 9th, 2013 at 10:53 am
Hey Raphael, no one said that play was Freeman’s fault. I think you have the reading comprehension skills of a 4th grader.
What do you have to say about Freeman only completing 50% of his passes and failing to build on a 14-12 lead for the entire 2nd half when our defense kept coming up with stops?? Huh??
September 9th, 2013 at 10:53 am
This rule needs to examined with all the quarterbacks being able to fake like they are going out and turn it up field. The rule should be if it is excessive contact than it should be flagged but when the player is barely touched its pretty ticky tack. I honestly would have said the same thing if it was Freeman running out of bounds. The game was decided by a light push out of bounds. It’s a tough loss and honestly we didn’t deserve the game anyway. The moment Schaino didn’t take a shot in the end zone was when I knew it was over. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! Hell maybe we should hire Herm next lol. But serious if Schiano wants to keep his job he needs to stop coaching to not lose. I want the same aggressiveness on offense as we see with our defense. Anyone saying Schiano didn’t trust Josh in the last few minuets all I have to say to that is why the hell is Josh in the game then. You have to kill teams hopes on the road and especially a bad football team.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:55 am
LVD is still a very young player and he’s going to make some mistakes. Bottom line is, that penalty didn’t cost us the game. The 55 minutes of inept Buc Offense, cost us the game.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:57 am
All off-season we’ve been hearing that with a better defense we would win….
Well, funny we clearly have a better defense… and yet according to the Freemanites, it’s still all the defenses fault. Lol…
September 9th, 2013 at 11:03 am
LVD made a mistake, but Freeman took the offense NOWHERE!
We wasted a timeout, and promptly took a delay of game penalty.
Come on people, when is our QB asked to step up?
Keep trying to pass the buck, Joe. Lavonte’s gaffe came to fruition from the culminating ineptitude of Josh Freeman and the offense.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:04 am
@couch fan I agreed. @raphael what the hell are talking about. I have gone to bat for Freeman as much as anyone. Couch fan can vouch for that but he play terrible yesterday. For ever excuse you can make for Freeman in that game I can make the same for Geno. The offensive line didn’t play well for either of them. They both had drop passes. And Geno has less weapons around him to work with AND HE STILL PLAYED BETTER. Josh needs to step up he is very much to blame for this loss.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:07 am
Easy for a fat a$$ sitting behind a key board with instant replay in slow motion to tell a NFL football player that he should have known the spit second the guy sets his foot out of bounds.
Real easy to Monday morning QB it.
Calm down internet geeks. You all don’t even understand the speed of the game.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:09 am
@stevek I couldn’t agree more. Josh gets the second most blame for this game. The coaching staff lost this game for us.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:10 am
I’m glad the finger in being pointed at the coaches. Nobody looked more comfortable in this second year system. Our punter was our MVP. That’s pathetic.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:20 am
I would think David knows the rule. David made a mistake. It’s a fast game and the difference between a good play and a bad one can simply be timing. If David was there a split second sooner and shoves him out of bounds, it’s not a penalty.
September 9th, 2013 at 11:27 am
Couch…I have supported Freeman all summer, and I still do. I thought the defense actually looked better than all last year for the most part. I blame the coaching staff for this loss. This team was not prepared to play a game of football. Holding so many starters out during preseason is part of it, but it also seems like they just were not ready. Did they look past the Jets? maybe, but Coach Shiano should be ashamed of himself today. Maybe the rumors of the team not buying in to his college style are true. This game was so awful, the coaches should have to run wind sprints today. The Bucs were out coached by a dysfunctional Jets coaching staff. PATHEDIC! Play calling was questionable at best, and the with the exception of Jackson and Williams no one helped Freeman out very much…of course how is there no freaking back up plan to the GD communication devise in the helmet? Is Shiano such a control freak he has not empowered josh to call a play? He could not have done any worse than Sully in this pile of crap! The zebras made so questionable calls as well, but the one on David was a good call. I do not blame David, he had a pretty good game. The Bucs should have never been in the situation. Then again, management has put their NFL team in the hands of a coach that did nice things in college with Rutgers, but it is not really the promised land of great football is it? Shiano should give us all a public apology.
OK, end of rant…
September 9th, 2013 at 11:45 am
So what about the play in the first quarter where Johnson pulled up and Geno ran for an extra 3 yards?
It was a boneheaded play, but if referees are given the option to determine a player’s intent, we are all in for a long year!!
September 9th, 2013 at 11:51 am
Even if David hadn’t pushed him you know Smith would have hit Winslow on a 10 yarder gotten out of bounds and kicked the winner. David screwed up but it’s much more than one play.
September 9th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
David is going to rebound from this mistake. He have improved. Heck the defense has improve as a whole. I just don’t like the stunts, 3 man rush with a zone on 3rd and long, and penalties. I do feel a little bit better about this defense. For the first time in a while the defense carried the team and kept them in the game yesterday. I’m happy about that. Though I hope the defense continue to be this good and improve.
I’m mainly disappointed in the Coaches and GM. Our O line is horrible. If these guys continue to be this bad, then Martin isn’t going to be that good this year as well as Freeman. The coaching staff should be a shame of the helmet debacle. Freeman been having helmet issue since last year. It would be wise to check all headset and have a backup plan. That was just a wasted drive. Also, they didn’t try to get the touch down at the end of the last offense drive. Not one throw to the touchdown when our run was ineffective the whole game.
I’m convince that it may be time for Mark to go if this season end in a losing season. Mainly because of the lack of talent in the 2nd and 3rd string at Wr, Te, Ol, De, and Fb. Plus, he been around for a while and our O Line had issues for a while and lack talent and depth with talent. The GM is responsible for attain the talent. Personally I would franchise Freeman and build the O Line with multiple draft picks instead of trying to make scrubs a superstar. A lot of undrafted players goes undrafted for a reason. Mainly they have a big questions about their talent to play in the NFL. For every Arian Foster there are a lot more of forgotten names that came and gone. To me it seem Mark put more emphasis in finding a diamond in the rough, instead of drafting a guy that have a higher chance of panning out.
September 10th, 2013 at 7:02 am
There was a play at the beginning of the fourth quarter with just as much contact (10:34 ish). The difference is there was no flop to go along with it.