Freeman, Not Schiano, Will Walk Plank
September 18th, 2013
When it comes to discussing the quarterback position of the Bucs, the discussion is split in two. There are the Freemanites who believe nothing is ever the fault of Bucs franchise quarterback Josh Freeman.
Then there is the notorious Mike Glennon Mob, whose members want Freeman gone right now and for Bucs commander Greg Schiano to insert their savior as the starting signal-caller.
(No, Joe can only remember hearing/reading one or two examples of someone with the stones to suggest Schiano should turn to Dan Orlovsky, who frankly should only see the light of day in a dire emergency. These people are nocturnal creatures. You know they are out there somewhere, but you rarely see or hear them.)
Though it is unclear if olive oil-lapping, popcorn-munching, coffee-slurping, fried-chicken-eating, oatmeal-loving, circle-jerking, beer-chugging, cricket-watching, scone-loathing, college football-naïve, baseball box score-reading Peter King of theMMQB.com and SI.com is a card-carrying member of the Mike Glennon Mob, he surely is not a Freemanite. King took a side Tuesday while appearing with the one and only Chris “Mad Dog” Russo on “Mad Dog Unleashed,” heard exclusively on SiriusXM Radio.
Chris “Mad Dog” Russo: Tampa is 0-2. Schiano — a lot of grumbling going on down there. They are going to New England. Freeman hasn’t been great. What’s the status of the Bucs right now? What can you tell me?
Peter King: The guy who is going to walk the plank at the end of the year is Josh Freeman. I would doubt sincerely if Greg Schiano is going to join him. They have invested too much in Schiano. There is not enough evidence, yet, to me, that his players aren’t going to play for him. Yeah, are there brush fires out there with some guys saying they don’t like Schiano? Yes. But in my opinion when the quarterback plays well, when they can get a quarterback who can play well, to me, I think they are going to be OK. The one thing about Schiano is — again, remember a couple of things: When Bill Belichick was in Cleveland — and I think both Belichick and Schiano have a lot in common; Belichick has a very, very, very high regard for Schiano — but when Bill Belichick was in Cleveland everybody hated him. Everybody really hated him whether it was the media or some guys on the team. It is very, very hard to give a guy two years to turn things around on any program if you don’t have a quarterback. Belichick had all that time in Cleveland. And after Kosar he didn’t have a quarterback either. I would not put Schiano in the endangered species category after he coached 18 NFL games.
Here’s the thing about both Freeman and Schiano. First is, Freeman is not playing as badly as the Mike Glennon Mob would have you believe. As Joe pointed out yesterday, just don’t look at his stats. Against the Saints, Freeman got absolutely no help from his receivers due to dropped passes and not getting their feet down in bounds.
But Schiano isn’t doing a bad job, either. Sure, it could be much better. But let’s think about this.
Schiano came in to turn around a team that had an absolute garbage defense riddled with malcontents and scumbags. He turned the worst rush defense into the best. This year, who the hell would have guessed that the Bucs would be leading the NFC in sacks? The Bucs were terrible at rushing the passer last year and Schiano appears to have fixed that, like he fixed the rush defense the previous season.
The Bucs are currently 18th in pass defense (better than the Giants, Dolphins, Cardinals, Vikings, Crows, Broncos, Dixie Chicks and Packers) up from near-NFL historic worst last season.
In Joe’s eyes, it’s clear Schiano has made significant headway into two of the worst elements of the team; complete turnarounds in fact, and has done a credible job in a third area.
Joe will even say that Schiano in the past 18 games has done more than any Bucs head coach since Chucky took the Bucs to the promised land. After winning the Super Bowl, did Chucky do a complete makeover of a unit to make it among the best in the NFL? Did Raheem Morris?
Unless the Bucs implode the rest of the way, Joe thinks Schiano will be back in 2014.
Freeman? That’s a little more complex.
September 18th, 2013 at 7:22 am
Joe…
There is a third group of us…..we don’t think Freeman walks on water….we aren’t clamoring for Glennon to play.
Our group desperately hopes Josh Freeman turns it around and soon…..we know he has faults….we know he is hurting us….but we’re not quite ready to throw in the towel…but we are close.
One or two more games with an impotent offensce and we will be ready to try Glennon…..why?….because we will have nothing to lose…and I think Schiano is in our group.
September 18th, 2013 at 7:37 am
A lot of sane points in that story. Thanks Joe.
Derek Dimke Mob
September 18th, 2013 at 7:46 am
If Freeman would get passes to his receivers in a catchable area and on time, he’d get more help from them. Forcing a receiver to consistently dive low, reach behind them, and catch out routes while falling out of bounds is just ridiculous. Get comfortable, make a decision, and deliver an accurate throw and all will be good.
September 18th, 2013 at 7:54 am
I agree with TBBFan’s assessment. I believe it’s too late for Freeman, yet many of us are/were rooting for him.
September 18th, 2013 at 7:54 am
What are you talking about? All of the drops by receivers have hit them in the hands, chest or facemask. Freemans going to skip passes in the dirt, we know this, which is why the “good josh” throws are all that more important.
All I want is Schiano to stay out of the offense. Let Mike Sullivan do what he needs to do and worry about the defense and managing the game. I would much rather he worry about linemen getting on the line of scrimmage, chipping away at personal foul penalties, and making sure the right personnel are on the field. He said he is taking the foot off the gas this season, but I have yet to see it.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:07 am
“Joe…
There is a third group of us…..we don’t think Freeman walks on water….we aren’t clamoring for Glennon to play.
Our group desperately hopes Josh Freeman turns it around and soon…..we know he has faults….we know he is hurting us….but we’re not quite ready to throw in the towel…but we are close.
One or two more games with an impotent offensce and we will be ready to try Glennon…..why?….because we will have nothing to lose…and I think Schiano is in our group.”
I second/third/fourth this statement, as I feel like I am in this group.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:07 am
Coach schiano kinda reminds me of COACH Mike Singetary.(sorry if that’s spelled wrong) Coach mike also came in here demanding and strict the ultimate disciplinarian and that completely turned off the team. These are adults in the NFL.(most of them are)
And we all know what happened next with the niners, next coach turned virtually the same team in to contenders. I’m not digging the strict way of schiano, hopefully we don’t have the same result as singletary.
I just wish they didn’t sign him to such a lengthy contract. 4 yrs if I’m not mistaken. That’s a proven NFL coach contract and schiano is yet to be that.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:08 am
Say what you want about being delusional…at least I’m stress free. Superbowl this year, baby!
September 18th, 2013 at 8:20 am
“The league’s best run defense?” It helps when your defense finishes as the second all time worst pass defense, doesn’t it? Why run it when you you chuck around the yard all day long? That stat is WAY overblown.
And how can it be figured that this is a well coached team? Mr. “Toes On the Line” can get his his right tackle to line up right, his receivers to know when to cover the tackle and when not to, can’t seem to understand that devastating blow are actually personal fouls now and is 0-2 so far this year.
This guy is in over his head, and it show. Pat Yaskiskas’ article was spot on.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:20 am
Ah only two games in and the “he hasn’t been here long enough” excuse comes trotting out.
Called that one before the season started.
Boosted by the loserville stat reference of course.
Laughable.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:26 am
After rewatching the Saints game, Josh was not as bad as his stat line suggests. A lot of shooting ourselves in the foot with penalties, drops, etc. That being said, I still just dont see us signing him to a long-term deal at the end of the season.
The fact is, he just isnt a leader of men. I challenge you to watch the interaction with his teammates when the cameras pan to the sideline or when he is on the field or when he scores a touchdown. THERE IS NONE. This is a team just waiting to break out and I just dont see Josh leading the charge, providing the leadership that Schiano and this club will need to see in order to say without a doubt, this is our guy.
Even if this offense goes on a tear (and I think it will) and this team starts winning the big games I can see the Bucs only signing him to a 2-3 year deal in the neighborhood of $12 mil a year with very little guaranteed cash. He isnt gonna get any better elsewhere and even after 5 years and all its volatility and change we just dont know if this is the guy that will lead a team to a Super Bowl. This is a team built to win now, so the Bucs can develop Glennon or another QB without the handcuff of having to keep Josh. Keep the faith, folks
September 18th, 2013 at 8:28 am
Freeman still has time to have a productive season problem is weather he does or not schiano doesn’t want him. He can succed if u play to his strength but schiano is stubborn he wants you to play to his scheme so with that being said I myself still likes an wants free as our qb but I dont lkke our qb coach relationship he cant succed if u dont trusy him to achieve a first down so I suggest we continue to get better an gain continuity through this season n I highly anticipate us trading for Ryan Mallet next offseason for like a 2 and a 4 rd pick an maybe schiano will unbiasly allow us to succeed…..WORDS OF A TRUE DIEHARD BUCS FAN!!!
September 18th, 2013 at 8:30 am
A quarterback that is playing over half a decade in the NFL does not and should need time to get his mojo going. If you step back and look at what this man has done after getting a $14M paycheck. When he first came in the league he was lights out. Connecting to most of his targets and running the ball to get the extra yards if he needed it. Now he hardly ever runs to get that first down, cannot connect to his receivers, and when he goes to throw the deep ball everyone closes one eye and winces – knowing its going to be long, short or out of bounds. This 25 year old millionare has one problem, and one problem only. His lifestyle choices. If you live in South Tampa, you know that his antics are not what a professional football player does to get ready for a season or game. Thats why the players had a meeting, thats why he was stripped of his captaincy, that why his “camp” is passing rumors of him asking for a trade. He has regressed because of his actions, and what he does with his body. Tampa Bay cannot be held hostage to this, we must move on.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:32 am
Ps if we beat a patriot team with no gronk no amendola an I cant even name one reciever(even if tom is throwing the ball) we could deff b back n great shaoe with a victory against the cardinals n b comfortable back n the playofff picture at 2-2
September 18th, 2013 at 8:53 am
More often than not he hangs on to the ball to long, stares down his receivers, throws all over the place including straight to the opposing players, has horrible foot work, and after all of this time, still doesnt grasp the concept of a simple pump fake….oh, yes, he does hit the receivers at times (sometimes they dont catch it, and clearly their fault….but they make up for it catching balls almost impossible to catch.
Stick a fork in him, hes done in my book. Ive had enough….I know Glennon isnt much right now, but you never know what he could develop into unless you try. We’ve already seen Freemans development (riddled with inconsistencies).
September 18th, 2013 at 8:53 am
Even though I don’t think he’ll succeed. Schiano needs to given enough time to get the job done. Even if they go 2-14 or 3-13, I still think he needs another year or two to remake the team.
September 18th, 2013 at 8:55 am
Nic, the pass to Mike Williams on the sideline was thrown way too late, and our receivers are constantly slowing down and/or turning around to catch passes that ruin their forward momentum (if they are even able to haul in the pass). All QBs have drops, but Freeman doesn’t help himself or his receivers out much at all when he’s throwing balls all around them, rather than in a catchable box (i.e. Brees’ pass to Colston at the end of last game).
September 18th, 2013 at 8:57 am
Freeman has 1-2 more starts to get the *mojo* going.
We need to see more at this point in his career. He needs to harness his talent into more consistency. Period.
Winning cures all, the D did it’s part. Where are you at Freeman? Six Flags?
September 18th, 2013 at 9:01 am
Joseph mama,
I agree. We are giving Freeman all 5 years of his contract. We should roll with Schiano for at least 3. I am seeing better football than the loafing in 2011. We just need QB play to be better.
You can’t expect the 30th ranked QB in 2013 to “carry” you to victory. Usually, they get in the way, unless you have an all time great defense of course. We are a a good defense, becoming better. Is our QB play up to par?
Johnny Football in 2014.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:09 am
The Bucs will be in an interesting position at year end. There really aren’t any good FA options, and obviously the readiness of any QB we would draft depends where we are picking. So as insane as it sounds, I think Freeman could be back next year because I don’t see him be giving a starting job anywhere else in the league. Every other team with QB issues will draft one because a drafted QB is like Freeman, they’re betting on potential, not results, just at a cheaper price than Freeman.
So Freeman’s best chance to start might be here if we aren’t in a position to draft a guy who’s ready to start day 1. Freeman’s value will be low and no one will be offering him a long term deal, so the Bucs could lowball him to something like 2 years, $12 million. This is of course why the second the season is lost we have to see what Glennon has because if he’s at or close to the same level as Freeman we keep Glennon, draft a QB and let Freeman go back up Terrell Pryor.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:10 am
232 quarters of professional football. Does someone really expect some light bulb to suddenly go off? He is what he is.
On and off the field, I expect more. I feel for you if you do not.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:25 am
Of course Freeman will be the first to go and I can’t wait. He needs to get as far away from Stalag 17 as he can. Then no more blaming the losses on Freeman. For the ones who put on the sham that they are not a part of the Glennon Mob, you get Glennon by default. Who else is going to play QB? Orlovsky? Freeman plays like he doesn’t have a brain sometimes, but he’s not that stupid. Wake up! If you think the fans are going to buy the excuse “but he’s a rookie” with all the money spent on this team to win now, you’re mistaken. Freeman will be a Free Man and justice will be served shortly thereafter.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:44 am
Well, I keep seeing the same 3 or 4 names here speaking how glad they will be to see Freeman move on. Id guess thats 3 or 4 who are (maybe) operating in close circles with Freeman.
Its done! Wash our hands of him now Dominik!!! See what we have in Glennon. I DONT TRUST FREEMAN….HE DOESNT WANT TO BE HERE!!
September 18th, 2013 at 9:51 am
Tampabaybucfan- yeah. Same group. Freeman has talent. He won 10 games with a horribly in talented team.
But he is a polar opposite of Schiano. Freeman is at his best rolling out, threatening defenses with the run- and making plays on the move. He is an improviser. Josh is a laid back Gunslinger.
Schiano wants his QB to be as methodical as a machine. Every play timed to the millisecond. Every move by the book. If Mr. Spock played football- Schiano would be pursuing him. He’d help monitor room temperature.
That’s neither good nor bad.both types can thrive in the NFL. But not together. Josh will succeed with a veteran coach, who will be experienced enough to play to Freeman’s strengths. We will be getting our butts kicked by Josh for years to come- he’s still just a kid.
Splengo- still spot on
I have been critical of some of Schianos techniques and Strategies. But I really do like the guy. He has done amazing work with the defense.
It is sad to lose a franchise QB. But Schiano deserves to have his type QB, to run his offense. This means we’ll have to draft one- and will be losers for another 2-3 years. But I think that’s the route we are gonna end up going. Might as well lose out this year- and see if any Android type Qbs are available next spring.
And no- Glennon isn’t an option. Never will be. Anyone who watched him( at any level), and still suggest that – is a clueless zombie. Should begin daily treatments of microwaving their heads. It couldn’t hurt.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:51 am
The remaining 14 games should tell us a lot. It looks like Freeman will be gone after this season, but the real key is to see how the team rebounds from a disappointing start. If the team continues to play hard and the penalties are held in check, there is a good chance for success. Schiano has his doubters, he will have to show everyone he can keep the team focused and prepared each and every week.
September 18th, 2013 at 9:52 am
Schiano has his own issues but he seems to be accountable, willing accept his mistakes and adapt.
Our D this year is proof of that.
It’s a different story on offense… a shame that Glennon is not a near term option because Freeman had lost the team.
September 18th, 2013 at 10:21 am
Capt. Tim, that assessment is as spot-on as they come. The only part I disagree with is that Glennon can never be an option. I’m not part of the MGM, but I watched the kid play at NCSt, and he has some talent to go with a killer arm. He’ll never be a top-5 QB, but I think he could evolve into a top-12 or top-15 QB in this system, because it suits his strengths (and definitely not Josh’s). A QB at that level consistently, with this defense improving everyday, can win a good amount of games. I would certainly not be opposed to a better option at the end of the year though if one came around.
September 18th, 2013 at 10:26 am
Joe,
Could the problem for freeman be the TE position? Freeman has had solid tight ends as security blankets the last few years and this year he has nobody. Our TEs have combined for 2 catches so far. Think about how many big catches D-Clark had last year. K2 was pretty good until he got into Freeman’s head.
September 18th, 2013 at 10:38 am
Since 2011, We have done nothing but give excuse after excuse… after excuse for Freeman. First it was Winslow, then it was Rah, then it was the defense, then it was the O-line, now it’s all Schiano.
Wake up people… 2010 was 3 years ago and that guy will never come back. All the excuses in the world arent going to save him. He is gone after this year and Schiano will be here. Hell Rah got 4 years. LOL
September 18th, 2013 at 10:53 am
@Capt Tim… oh, lets just lose out this year…”Freeman rolling out, threatening defenses, an improviser who won 10 games…huh? who won 10 games? and that was when?
Dude, stop living in the past….maybe you’re the mindless zombie here. I normally dont have a problem with you, but attacking those of us who want to “TRY” Glennon, when you’re already in “set to fail” mode to lose out for the best draft pick….I mean come on man. The same guy who coached Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson also coached Glennon.
I’d think since you’re ready to lose out the rest of the season now that you would at least think, “Hey why not?”
September 18th, 2013 at 10:56 am
Freeman’s throwing mechanics are awful, so naturally he has unreliable accuracy. He stares down receivers and frequently misses open ones. He’s ranked somewhere around 30th in QB rating, that’s the bottom line. Every QB has receivers that drop balls, that’s not a valid excuse. His receivers also catch balls that other receivers couldn’t.
Glennon’s mechanics looked bad to me too from the little I saw of him. I’m in no hurry to see him come in for on-the-job training. We are stuck with Freeman and have to make the best of it.
The fact is the defense is playing nearly as good as the Super Bowl winning defense did, and that team had terrible offense that year until the end of the season.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:01 am
As a card carrying Glennon mob member (#0000008). I did see a couple possitive thing’s from Freeman on Sunday. In the first half he dropped back and looked Bradyesque. For a few snap’s. Standing still in the pocket with his feet set. Boom strike. Then I seen him on another play where he looked Patyonesue with rapid baby step’s in the pocket. He reverted back to his sloppy footwork after that. But it show’s he’s working on it. Maybe he has finaly relized his not perfect. We will stomp the Pat’s in NE on Sunday.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:02 am
@Simeon 97…thanks for bringing that up!
Brings me into something thats been haunting me for a while now….ideas I was clamming for on another web site last year.
What if we had kept Bennett and signed his brother @TE. Boy they sure do look pretty good right now.
What if we had kept Talib, being that we are and have a history of being so thin @CB.
But at least we made some AWESOME drafts and acquisitions the past 2 years.
What if we’re able to do that @QB?
September 18th, 2013 at 11:16 am
Simeon:
No. The very first thing Schiano told Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik and Team Glazer in their first interview, after he studied Bucs tapes, was that Freeman was forcing way too many throws to DJ Toes on the Line. He was using tight ends as a crutch and virtually everyone (except Raheem Morris) watching the game could see this.
Let’s be honest, Dallas Clark is way past his prime.
Sullivan’s offense, which is the Giants offense, devalues the tight end position (yes, Joe knows this rankles most Bucs fans but unless or until Sullivan is gone this is the way it is going to be).
That written, remember the Bucs are currently without their No. 1 tight end Tom Crabtree. Luke Stocker, just about everyone admits, is barely a step above training camp meat. So you have to keep that in mind as well.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:17 am
@76
That’s the problem. If he sucked every single snap, he would already be gone. But, that’s the pattern over 58 starts now. Inconsistent. At some point, everyone need to recognize that this is it. There’s no upward climb to consistency. It’s a series of peaks and valleys.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:26 am
One more note about Freemanites. They are leading the fire Schiano movement. Who ever this rat is (the Buc’s player that said that Revis is mad at Schiano) need to be cut. Any player that turn’s on Shiano. Is a cancer and should be cut. He’d better be good because other team’s will only take a chance on a cancer. If he’s good. We would be winning games with a 62% passer,2-1 TD to turnover ratio. To much parety in the league to win with a 50% passer and a 1-1 TD to turnover ratio. I love a hard a$$ coach like Schiano. Do you think we need a softy like Carroll or Reid giving out hugs to these guy’s after the losses. He took over a team of quitter’s but I have yet to see anybody quit since he started roaming the sidelines.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:45 am
Bucrightoff
Lowball offer Freeman 12M per. Hahahahahaha that’s crazy. Freeman entered this season looking at a possible 20M per payday. Right now he’s looking at 3-5M per as a backup. If any team in the NFL thought enough about paying Freeman 12M per. They give up a second rounder to get him now. Unfortunatly Al Davis past away. Darn Chip Kelley keeping Vick. Now that is 12M well spent
September 18th, 2013 at 11:47 am
Joe,
You mean 4th round pick Luke Stocker? Oi vey.
September 18th, 2013 at 11:49 am
Enough with this “Sullivan walk’s on water crap” he’s as much to blame as anyone.
September 18th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I’m not saying Sullivan is without blame. And, I am not one of the people yelling for Schiano’s head. I like him. That said, if I have one criticism for him is that he seems to meddle in the offense. How many times have we seen him in Sullivan’s ear during games?
I’d like to see Sully calling it without coach saying “Pound the rock” or whatever to him.
September 18th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
76Buc
I said 2 yrs $12 million. As in $12 million total or $6 million a year. Obviously no one is insane enough to give Freeman $10+million a year, or whoever does deserves a thourough evaluation.
September 18th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
MadMax- sorry dude, but if you’ve watched Glennon in college, or the pros- and think he is an NFL prospect- then you don’t know What comprises an NFL QB.
The guy is rail thin. He gets happy feet in the pocket, and throws blind when pressured( remember the pick 6’s- that is a characteristic of his). He is inaccurate on the move, and ineffective when he rolls out. He floats passes to the sidelines- doesn’t throw them with enough “zip” to complete in the NFL. He throws “at” Recievers, instead of leading them. He has slow and clumsy footwork.
He fails at every important NFL QB trait.
I’ve said we should trade Freeman as quickly as possible. There are teams that would be contenders with him- and might be willing to pay high picks for him( hello, Cleveland!)
Then start Glennon. That is our best excuse to lose out, yet claim we aren’t losing to get another decent QB- Glennon would get us a top 3 pick.
Plus, if he starts this season- ill never have to hear another person speak his name.
And I don’t care who has a problem with it- as I’m always right.
September 18th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
@Capt. Tim,
Do you think Freeman is a legit NFL franchise QB?
Only then can I ascertain if you are right about anything. Because if you do, then we all know that you know jackdick about anything.
September 19th, 2013 at 1:01 am
You only have the capacity to see the QB. If it goes good- it’s the qB. If it goes bad- it’s the QB.
You are a common affection in the NFL. The day Glennon was drafted- I noted that you clueless *^<#%€s would begin your whining. Every team that doesn't win the Superbowl has idiots whining for some talentless backup or another. Dumbasses that really don't know or watch the game. Your type uses a game as an excuse to get drunk with friends- which is fine, until you start trying to form opinions about something you know nothing about.
Then you become nauseating- and have just joined the huge mass of zombies.
Who is Josh's TE? His slot Wr? If you know anything( you don't), you'd release that those two posistions attack the center of the field. We had no one last year- got no one this year. John Lynch( who does know football- unlike your self) pointed this out twice. I pointed it out all summer.
Blaming the QB is for water cooler" expert wannabes". You are just a member of the same clown circus that infest every NFL town
With a veteran, experienced coach – Josh will again be the talk of the NFL. He won ten games in a season. You idiots can't remember that far- due to lack of IQ points( same problem encountered by goldfish- short term memory.)
He will be soon stopping a mud hole in our butts on a regular basis.
I want Glennon to start! That kid assures us of a top 3 pick. Then Schiano can draft his kinda QB.
Glennon will never win 10 games in this league. I doubt he wins one- which will give me enough ammo to amuse my self trashing the glennonites all this fall- while we wait for the draft.
September 19th, 2013 at 6:26 am
OK, when Freeman goes elsewhere and tanks it, I hope you are around for your plate of blowhard pompous ass crow.
You think you know, but you don’t. There’s plenty of great QBs who don’t have elite players at every skill position. True great QBs make those positions better. Freeman doesn’t have that skill set.
Sorry your ego gets in the way of your vision.
September 19th, 2013 at 10:24 am
@Capt Tim….dude, friendly here…check your grammar please 😉
September 19th, 2013 at 10:29 am
@Capt Tim, also please study Freud’s “psychology projection”….(im still your wingman Bro).