“Take Your Emotion Out Of Your Evaluation”
July 21st, 2013
Stats are not for losers, says former Bucs QB Shaun King.
In an analytical and passionate take on Josh Freeman, King details why he’s disgusted that the Bucs haven’t inked Freeman to a contract extension already. King, one of three QBs to lead the Bucs to the NFC title game, dives into Freeman’s numbers and last season’s realities in the WDAE-AM 620 audio below.
“Take your emotion out of your evaluation,” King advises fans.
King’s logic is sound, but Joe can’t quibble with those who aren’t ready to celebrate an inconsistent QB with six career wins against teams with a winning record. (Catch King’s full take with J.P. Peterson below.)
July 21st, 2013 at 10:06 am
“Analytical and passionate” but take your emotions out?
July 21st, 2013 at 10:08 am
I think we are handling Freeman the way we should and that we can sign him this year if his play warrants. So, I disagree with Shaun King again! I will guarantee you that if our defense performs well….we will succeed.
“Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 11 or fewer points.”
July 21st, 2013 at 10:12 am
Don’t forget that 2 of those wins were teams on the last game of the season walking into the playoffs and pulling starters. as for the defense, Revis cannot cover 3-4 receivers at once, and GMcCoy cannot rush against a whole offensive line. It is shaping up to be a long season for the Bucs
July 21st, 2013 at 10:22 am
@buc realist
You are off subject…what do Revis & McCoy have to do with Josh Freeman’s contract extension?
Also what do you mean by 2 of those wins being the last game of the season?…..doesn’t make sense.
Also….I think you might be better served rooting for another team since you are convinced that we aren’t moving in the right direction.
July 21st, 2013 at 10:26 am
@tampabaybucfan
you brought up the defense.
joe brought up that jfro-6pak has 5 career wins against teams with a winning record.
when i first read the comments it was just your post and joe’s article, if i knew my comment was lower i would have put a better explanation in.
July 21st, 2013 at 10:27 am
Sorry but I disagree with you Shaun King – Freeman HAS to lead this team to the playoffs this year or he’s a BUST.
It’s really that simple.
I’m tired of hearing about, “it’s a new system crap”
Wilson, Luck, RG III, Kapernick ALL had a new system and lead their teams to the playoffs, three of them rookies.
Man up Freeman or take off.
July 21st, 2013 at 10:29 am
Never thought I’d say this but….I agree 1000 percent with King’s view on this topic. I said it multiple times. Freeman is our guy!!!
July 21st, 2013 at 10:36 am
Well look at Jabba calling Fat Bastard fat. Hypocrite.
July 21st, 2013 at 10:46 am
The thing I 100% agree with here is King’s take on the QBs coach. I said the same thing. McNulty was a darn good Wrs coach in Arizona. But he’s not a QBs coach. He should have been hired as our Wrs coach in the off-season and Schiano and Co. should have sought after a guy with experiencce. Sorry to say, but I would have stuck with Alex Van Pelt at QBs coach from 2011. Either him or Ken Dorsey, who was hired in Carolina. Guys who have played the position, maybe not successfully int h nfl, but have knowledge and the mental aspect to teach the fundamentals.
McNulty is a good coach, but not a QBs coach.
July 21st, 2013 at 11:02 am
If not Josh Freeman……who? Some unknown rookie (don’t be misled by the one season successes of the 2012 rookie class) or another team’s cast-off who likely isn’t as good as what we have. Some here want to continually focus on Freeman’s bad games and totally discount his good ones. When taking it all into account, his play was good enough. Just not good enough to compensate for the horrendous secondary, weak pass rush, dismal return game and in some respects the injuries to the O-line. Call it excuses; but as Ronde would say, “It is what it is.”
July 21st, 2013 at 11:17 am
@the_buc_realist, you may just be right! This may be the year that Tampa implodes, I am sorry to say.
Freeman must prove himself, but he may be in the wrong system to do that!
I thought he was better running and improvising with his receivers.
Schiano has him handcuffed, IMHO.
July 21st, 2013 at 11:35 am
I feel sorry for you guys who can’t get excited about this team. Time for you to move on to one of the bandwagon teams.
July 21st, 2013 at 11:37 am
I think we missed the boat this offseason. we could have got Kansas City’s second round pick, But instead 49ers got it. though its possible i am over estimating JFro-6pak value, Maybe two 3rd round picks would have got the deal done.
July 21st, 2013 at 11:46 am
@chris if I recall correctly Mcnaulty is going the same route as Sully. Sully was also a wide receiver coach before going to quarterbacks coach. Sully will be the main person Free learns from not Mcnaulty. I think Schiano just wanted another good offensive mind that he can trust
July 21st, 2013 at 11:46 am
@bucnjim
Who is more excited at the end of the year, The homers that predicted sweeping the division and winning the NfC south. Or “the haters” predicting 6 wins and the Bucs squeaked out 7 or 8 wins for 3rd place in the division.
July 21st, 2013 at 11:56 am
5 wins against winning teams. Thats practically 1 win a year against winning teams… That IS awful and That IS replaceable!
This is Freeman’s final year to prove that he can be a franchise QB.
Always makes me laugh to read someone asks “replace with who?” Truth is it doesn’t really matter. A rookie can come in and duplicate 6 wins a year like Freeman.
I dont know who may be “the answer” but I do know the odds of finding someone who can win 6 games a year arent all that bad.
Anyways here’s hoping that answer is already on the roster and has a break out year.
July 21st, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Fatboy Shaun King was also disgusted that the Bucs didn’t give Radio a contract extension. His credibility is zero.
July 21st, 2013 at 12:40 pm
The realist is all BS! QB’s dont win games alone.You gotta have a desent D to beat winning teams.Funny how so called “realist” always only see the negative. Fake Arse fans that just wanna hate.Now that’s being “real”! It’s easy to be negative. LMAO!!! GO BUCS!!!
July 21st, 2013 at 1:01 pm
S King wouldn’t even have a job as a sports analyst if it wasn’t for the great Bucs D who kept teams at 17 points or under.What a disgrace for king to even be allowed to talk about J Freeman on a national show.King owes his success to Sapp,Brooks,Barber,Lynch and ALL the D players that handed King even a chance to beat teams with a winning record.Freeman has more talent in his toe than King ever had at his peak! LMAO!!!! what a joke!
July 21st, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Ill start listening to King when his own ex teammates stop calling him bias and he stops bragging about the few times he’s right without acknowledging when hes wrong. Hack without any integrity.
July 21st, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Couch Fan Says:
July 21st, 2013 at 11:56 am
5 wins against winning teams. Thats practically 1 win a year against winning teams… That IS awful and That IS replaceable !
True, BUT, also not all Free’s fault. You can’t tell me that replacing/moving around 90% of his offensive line PLUS a 3rd new scheme with a new prime receiver, all of which affects QB play, didn’t have a part to play! Honestly, I’m OK either way. All I’d like to see is that management gets a replacement that’s
an IMPROVEMENT. I see no reason to dump Free, and spend 3 years developing his replacement. Even if they decide Free isn’t the guy, I see nothing wrong with Franchising him until the new guy is BETTER, whoever it is!!!
July 21st, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Even though King was in Josh’s corner I still don’t feel King earned his spot on a national tv show.Good for him but I still don’t think he has truly earned it.
July 21st, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Too funny… how many wins against teams with winning records now. What’s funny about that? Teams with winning records have winning records because they’re winning, not losing. That’s why very few QBs have a lot of wins against teams with winning records. QBs on winning teams are beating teams and giving them losing records, so they don’t get a lot of wins against “winning teams”. QBs on losing teams typically are losing and giving the opposing QB a winning record…. hence the few wins against teams with winning records.
It might be better to look at losses against teams with losing records. Those are games that should be won and are not. You have to win the games you’re supposed to win. Winning the occasional game against a good team does not get you into the playoffs. Winning the many games against poor teams gives you a much better shot.
Two keys to every season… do well in your own division (a difficult task in the NFC South with the Saints and Falcons, but we’ve actually done decent there), and winning the games against the poor teams (failed against the 8-8 Cowboys, Saints x2, Eagles and Rams). So, 5 games against teams with .500 or worse records and we lost 5. Two of those 5, Freeman threw 4 INTs, but the playoffs were already out of reach. Win the first Saints game (led by as much as 14 in that game and lost) and the Eagles game (up 21-10 in the 4th quarter and lost), and we’re 8-5 going into those two bad games and in the playoff hunt. Win any of the Cowboys, Skins, Giants, Falcons games (3 of the 4 we had 4th quarter leads) and we are in a much better position, especially because we’d knock down a team that ended with a winning or .500 record (of course, beat the Giants and they’d end up .500 and Freeman still wouldn’t have a win against a “winning” team… get the idea here?)
What’s all this saying? Not much really. We can see we had a chance to win about 6 or 7 of the 9 games we lost and didn’t. That is a sign that the team is very close, that they can win, even against good teams, but just weren’t quite there last year. This year, who knows? They regress and lose more games to both winning and losing teams. Stay the same and are middle of the pack with an outside shot at the playoffs. Or improve (even just a little bit… maybe Revis, Goldson, Banks count as “just a little bit”?) and get those 3, 4 or 5 more wins and shock the world (or at least the doubters and “experts” and analysts).
July 21st, 2013 at 1:49 pm
It’s so easy for idiots like to King to say Freeman should already be signed, when he and others have NO IDEA what Freeman’s camp is asking for in a contract. Ask Buffalo how they feel after signing Fitzpatrick to that 6-year $60 million w/ $24 million guaranteed extension, only to have to replace him a year later.
July 21st, 2013 at 2:15 pm
The holiday is over. King has come back to reality. And by that I mean he’s bak to his normal nonsense. Freeman isn’t winning a Super Bowl unless he can prove he can do it this year. He’s got a team LOADED with starting talent. Time to make it happen.
I think letting Freeman go, drafting a QB or signing a different Vet to a cheaper deal is a better way to go. Use the money savings to ink some more stud FAs.
July 21st, 2013 at 2:35 pm
Lets just put it this way. Freeman will most likely be franchised if he puts together a solid year. People want to throw the Romo/Flacco comparisons to Josh. By no means is Freeman on either level. ANd please dont compare the stats of Flacco to Freeman. Flacco performs when needed most and is a proven winner and has been since year one.
If Josh takes us to the playoffs as a wild card and we get bounced early, we CAN afford to Franchise him and make him do it again. You don’t want to jump the gun with a last place schedule. Bills did it with Fitzpatrick then realized he was the problem quite quickly.
Now if Josh has a pro bowl type year and absolutely lights it up, we win the division, then sure I see the 6 year at 15-16 mil per range being given. But that’s what he needs to do to earn the extension. In my opinion, a solid year buys him the tag.
July 21st, 2013 at 2:51 pm
“we CAN afford to Franchise him and make him do it again”
yes but would that be the most cost effective way of keeping him around. I would be really interested to see what he goes for if he tests the market.
July 21st, 2013 at 3:28 pm
@Mr. Lucky
Why do people think its ok to compare QBs. If you look at the offenses Kapernick, RGIII, and Wilson operated they were not conventional NFL offenses. The coaches tailored the offenses to their strengths, which consisted of a lot of bootlegs, one read throws, and most importantly the read option. Don’t get me wrong, RGIII, Wilson and Kapernick are talented but they were comfortable in their specific offenses because it tailored to what they did best which was to run, with simple passing game built in. The only rookie QB with a conventional offense was Luck, and yes he did well, but expecting each QB to do the same thing or have the same success is narrow minded. Each QB’s situation is different.
July 21st, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Wasn’t King always critical of JF???
July 21st, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Shaun King believes that if we signed him earlier could have gotten josh to sign a deal just slightly more than he’s making now. Which isn’t true bc I think josh wants to prove we worth more
July 21st, 2013 at 6:23 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeEeW2AqKXI
July 21st, 2013 at 6:40 pm
Joe how many god damn times are you going to write that he’s only one of three QB’s to lead the bucs to the NFC championship game? WE GET IT. Do you think King is a football god or something? he’s pathetic. Only reason he “lead” us there was our defense. He was a GARBAGE QB. Just pathetic. I don’t know why anyone would like this fat bastard. He’s a joke.
July 21st, 2013 at 7:01 pm
McNulty was the Rutgers OC and QB coach at Rutgers in 08, he’s at least done it before. It’s not like a WR coach operates in a vacuum either.
July 21st, 2013 at 7:03 pm
Damn sucks to say it Shaun King is correct ugh
July 22nd, 2013 at 1:23 am
Buc realist your an idiot you would have traded a 4000 yard 27 td 25 yr old qb for a2nd rnd pick with no other qb on the roster except for olovski, that’s all you had to say to prove you know absolutely nothing about football. When it comes to qbs you don’t give one up unless you have another ala bledsoe and brady.
July 22nd, 2013 at 1:49 am
Wasnt 1 of Andrew Lucks college coaches on indys staff? Isnt that wierd how those 4 players played so well is because they used similar offenses as their collegiate careers? I wonder if the reason why peyton runs a similar indy offense in denver is because its easier to add to a playbook a qb knows well than it is to try and reteach a new 1. After all a senior college qb has his playbook down n puts up great numbers as compared to a rookie qb in a new system. Or even a qb who has been taught 3 or 4 different schemes in as many years.. does consistency start with playbooks? Hmmm.. gotta ask the answerman that one.
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:13 am
Mr Lucky Says
“Wilson, Luck, RG III, Kapernick ALL had a new system and lead their teams to the playoffs, three of them rookies.”
Those QBs all have to prove those seasons were not abnormalities. Sanchez led his team to the playoffs as well. Heck, so did Sean King. It means nothing until they do it consistantly.
Comparing Freeman to any of those is an innacurate science. And hopefully you don’t think playoffs in a rookie year is a sure thing, even with a future elite QB.
July 22nd, 2013 at 9:58 am
King has zero credibility….I know he’s a jerk on a personal level as well as a professional level. As for Freeman, he has no excuses this year. NONE. He will make or break. I can hardly wait.
July 22nd, 2013 at 10:58 am
Love Sean King! I would enjoy the opportunity to have a long talk with him and get his suggestions on a whole host of things. I’d then go out and do the exact opposite of everything he suggested and the world would be mine! No seriously Sean call me. . .
July 22nd, 2013 at 4:06 pm
The only point that I would disagree with King on is that he mentions that McNaulty was best known for being a wide receiver coach. What he forgets to mention is that are OC is known for “being Eli Manning’s QB coach” was originally a the Giants Wide Receiver coach. I feel like having someone coach from a different perspective could be interesting for Freeman. I feel like Schiano wanted this guy because as a Schiano guy he will focus on fundamentals and essentially “toeing the line”
July 22nd, 2013 at 4:48 pm
So let me see if I got this straight. A QB on a Playoff team is automatically better than any Non-Playoff team QB. Get Real, I’m beginning to sense a lot of you boobs never actually Played Football, just video gamers who believe the Madden Algarythem is accurate.
Shuan King was dead on, and for you other cognitively challenged he did say the Defense led the Bucs teams he played on.
Not even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could have scraped togather a Winning season with a Rookie Head Coach outta college and a kindegarten secondary. WAKE UP!
July 22nd, 2013 at 4:54 pm
I’m beginning to sense a lot of you boobs never actually Played Football
Shuan King was dead on, and for you other cognitively challenged he did say the Defense led the Bucs teams he played on.
Not even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could have scraped togather a Winning season with a Rookie Head Coach and staff fresh outta college and a Keystone Cops secondary. WAKE UP!
July 22nd, 2013 at 4:59 pm
I’m beginning to sense a lot of you boobs never actually Played tackle Football
Shuan King was dead on, and for you other cognitively challenged he did say the Defense led the Bucs teams he played on.
Not even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could have scraped togather a Winning season with a Rookie Head Coach and staff fresh outta college and a virtually sackless blind blitzing defense backed up by spectators in their secondary. WAKE UP!
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Shuan King was dead on, and for you other cognitively challenged he did say the Defense led the Bucs teams he played on.
Not even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could have scraped togather a Winning season with a Rookie Head Coach and staff fresh outta college and a virtually sackless blind blitzing defense backed up by spectators in their secondary. WAKE UP!
July 23rd, 2013 at 12:21 am
Keep in mind that Shaun King right after Raheem’s 9th loss in a row said on his radio show that not only would Raheem NOT be fired, but that he also deserved a two year extension! So Shaun’s knowledge and opinions are verrrry questionable and suspect at best.