“Good Josh” And “Evil Josh”
July 29th, 2013
There is no question that Josh Freeman is the Bucs starting quarterback, barring an injury or him being kidnapped by aliens. The only people who harbor the misguided notion that Mike Glennon — who has said repeatedly he is not ready — will beat out Freeman in a position that has already been decided are the same types that travel to Roswell, N.M. each year to celebrate UFOs and in the wintertime, howl at the moon.
In a really accurate, well-detailed piece of research, good guy Mike Tanier — who Joe swilled craft beers with at the NFL Combine in February– goes deep under the hood of Josh Freeman writing for SportsOnEarth.com.
Tanier breaks down Freeman’s up and down, manic career as “Good Josh” and “Evil Josh.”
After watching several Good Josh and Evil Josh games, it was easy to reconcile and reconstitute the Real Josh. Good and evil are a matter of degree. In Freeman’s best games, he completes two or three more passes down the field off play-action, gets a few extra plays by buying time with his legs or gets an early boost from a Martin catch-and-run. In his worst games, an errant sideline bomb flutters into a cornerback’s hands instead of out-of-bounds. In the good games, the Buccaneers play much of the game with a lead or within a touchdown of their opponent, so the running game remains a significant factor. In the bad games, the opponent rolls out to an early lead (perhaps due to an early Freeman miscue or two), and the Buccaneers cannot rely on the running game to slow the pass rush or occupy the underneath coverage.
In good games and bad, the football field can be sliced up like a checkerboard for Freeman. The short sidelines and deep middle are his “green zones,” where he is a capable passer. The short middle and deep sidelines are danger zones. Opponents appeared to figure this out last year. Freeman threw five interceptions along the short sidelines in his final three games. Rams cornerbacks were clearly baiting him to throw in front of them. When a quarterback does only a handful of things well, defenses can easily adjust.
Much like professional baseball, the NFL is all about adjustments and how players and teams deal with adjustments. As Tanier pointed out, opposing defensive coordinators found a pattern on Freeman and exploited it, which appears to have directly led to Freeman’s late-season meltdown of epic proportions, costing the Bucs a chance at postseason play.
How the Bucs, and Freeman, have adjusted to that this offseason, and how the Bucs and Freeman handle adjustments by opponents during this season, largely will determine Freeman’s future salary, and the Bucs’ hopes of playoffs in 2014.
July 29th, 2013 at 11:54 am
so jfro has 2 green zones where hes good and 3 bad zones where he’s bad.
sounds about right….not to mention inability to read a D, go through his progressions, not cave under pressure and a penchant for baby tigers and soul glo
July 29th, 2013 at 11:54 am
I am not saying that Glennon will beat out Jfro-6pak for the starting Job, Just saying that we are wasting time with Jfro-6pak as QB.
July 29th, 2013 at 11:55 am
Time to break out the ironing board then, and straighten the wrinkles.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
@buc1987
Hard to Iron out wrinkles when your material has holes in it.
Of course we can have him practice all day with golf carts and targets and watch him go 30% again.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Sleeping Freeman > Mike “Ummmm” GlennOstrich-Dynamite
(Lol bashing a QB you don’t like is fun, now I get why Robert does it all the time)
July 29th, 2013 at 12:09 pm
The short sidelines and deep middle are his “green zones,” where he is a capable passer. The short middle and deep sidelines are danger zones.
This is totally contradictory “short sidlines green” short,middle & dep sidelines danger.
While the point is well taken…..this also has to fall on the coaches. They should be aware of the weaknesses and call otheer plays to compensate.
I look to see more short slant routes & screens to Martin this year.
I also think it should be categorized as “Good Josh, Bad Josh”…like him or not he is not “Evil”
July 29th, 2013 at 12:09 pm
2012 Freeman looked a helluva lot better than 2011 Freeman. I think he’s on the right path now. I expect 2013 Freeman to out perform 2012 Freeman. Just a theory though. Could be wrong, we’ll see soon enough. It is a glass half full theory though.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:11 pm
@Realish
I dont agree with much that you say lately but I do agree that we are just wasting time with Freeman.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
@realist @couch fan
Trying to build a team around a QB is wasting time??? Guess every GM in the NFL is wasting time then.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
@TBBucFan
I look to see more short slant routes & screens to Martin this year.
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For some odd reason when you say that, the image of Freeman throwing a short screen pass 5 yards over Dougs head last year flashes into my mind. scary thought!
July 29th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
@ walter
Could you please try to add a little common sense to your post. I had to debate with ignorant comments.
After 5 years you expect more from your QB.
Stop being so stupid and at least act like you have some intelligence please.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
going into his 5th year I should say
July 29th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
@ Couch
I fully expect Doug Martin to catch those passes (5 yds over his head) He has already proven he can do most anything.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:29 pm
@Couch Fan
Lol calling ME stupid? Please, you, Robert, and Realist take the cake bro, so I’m not gonna hear it from you. 😛 fuckin’ tool
July 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
@Couch Fan
Thats why I won’t argue with them, Cannot talk sense to the senseless. Jfro-6pak is basically the same Qb as when he started as a rookie. Powerful Arm and can sometimes run, and not much else. You know its bad when a defensive coordinator on national TV says that the Bucs Qb can only look at half of the field in year 4. The fact he needs a strong running game to be successful is very telling. Jfro-6pak can make the playoffs, but it will be because we have great 21 other starters on the team. Or you can find a great QB and have half the great starters and still make the playoffs.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
There isn’t a big adjustment that needs to be made on Free’s part. As the writer pointed out, its the fact that he has horrible accuracy with most throws. He needs to improve his overall accuracy or he will continue to struggle.
I said it last season, this notion that he could get by off of throwing bombs while being incapable in the short to mid range game is ridiculous. You have to be able to make those throws more often than not at least. Free couldn’t do it and if he still can’t do it, we can expect a repeat performance.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Glennon will get in some way and light it up.I love Freeman but I keep having these visions!
July 29th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Not bad, it only took NFL defenses 3 1/2 years to adjust to his green/red zones and exploit them. Looks to me like it wouldn’t take much to throw all NFL defenses out of whack for another 3 1/2 years and we should be playoff/Super Bowl bound for a while as Josh simply adds a different “zone” every 3 1/2 years. (sarcasm)
While there is some truth to the article, there are also a lot of flaws. He watched a few of these games, and a few of those games and made a career analysis of it. He mentions the batted balls (obviously part of the issue with “short middle”), yet fails to mention that some of that is playing with 2 backup guards and a first year starting RT.
I also didn’t see him mention drops by receivers. Last year was better, but still an issue, and directly led to a couple interceptions (the Cowboys game is the first that comes to mind, pass bounced off the chest of the receiver into the defenders hands) and a few near interceptions (Chiefs game comes to mind here as two missed catches in a row nearly led to INTs).
He contradicts many experts that say Freeman struggles under pressure, when saying how good he is when eluding the rush and throwing on the run. Not saying he’s wrong, I think Josh does fine eluding the rush and throwing on the run, problem is when he’s pinned in the pocket with no where to go and can’t step into throws (throws off the back foot) and when he is actually being hit as he throws (no QB is good at throws while being hit).
Of course, I’m no “expert”, and I’ve only watched every game Josh has played (as well as plenty of other NFL games with various other QBs). I’m not an NFL coach, scout, GM, former player (I’m not thinking this guy or most of the “experts” are either, except may Jaws and a few others, but again most of the only watch a few clips of each game or a few games of the season looking for specific things to talk about).
Josh Freeman needs to improve, there’s no doubt about that. When he’s good, he’s really good (5 game stretch of 100+ rating, 13TD, 1 INT… 13 game stretch of 25 TD to 8 INT… full season with 25 TD, 6 INT). He’s even shown the ability to come back in games (9 4th quarter comebacks, 10 game winning drives and that’s not including at least 3 games last year where we came back to lead the game, only to lose). When games are close (and sometimes not so close) he gives us a chance to win. That’s not saying he wins the game by himself. That was evident last year. Having a lead early was no guarantee to win (Giants, Cowboys, Saints, Broncos) and taking the lead late was no guarantee to win either (Skins, Falcons, Eagles). But in each case, we had a shot to win the game. That’s what I want a QB to give us, a chance to win. The rest of the team also needs to give us that chance and we’ll win more than we lose, we’ll see playoff games.
Do you want to see the flaws in the early games last year? Watch the Giants game. Watch how Nicks, Cruz and Bennett torch our secondary all game long. Watch Talib look like a deer in the headlights against WRs that aren’t even the best in the NFL. Wright and McDonald looking like fools out there. Go to the Cowboys game where, again, Talib gets schooled by Bryant and Miles Austin. Sure, I can hope our offense does more to overcome those things, but really… it was BAD.
So, go watch the games again and again. Don’t just look at Josh’s play and say “That’s IT!!!”. Watch everything else, the line, the defense, the run game, etc. I honestly believe this year is different. You can hear it in the player’s interviews. They’re a more cohesive team this year. They’re more confident in what they’re doing and where they’re supposed to be. They’re helping each other out. Good things await for this group… with Josh.
July 29th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Couch “For some odd reason when you say that, the image of Freeman throwing a short screen pass 5 yards over Dougs head last year flashes into my mind. scary thought!”
Which game was that? I’ve only seen a couple bad overthrows on screens in games, two where the RB was covered so well there was no chance of getting him the ball. With a rush bearing down (being it was a screen) the ball was thrown to an open space over his head. Other than that, I don’t recall many screens with 5 yard overthrows. I’d rather see the overthrow than a pick 6 by a DL or LB on the well covered screen though.
July 29th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
going into his 5th year I should say
^^^4th full yr as the starter
July 29th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
Some wise words from a poster at Bucs Nation
“Let me look at the run to pass ratio in every game we’re winning big vs games we’re losing or close late in the game? Every time you’ll find a higher run ratio in games we’ve got a lead early and late, as opposed to a game we jump to an early lead then find ourselves losing before the half… We can run that drill with any team, any game and it’d still come out the same. About 60-70% pass plays in games teams are losing early on. The bigger the deficit, the higher the ratio of passes. Then look at games teams are winning early and carry that lead late in the game…. yep, more run plays. Wow, what a concept. Run the ball to shorten the game, throw the ball to recover from an early deficit.
Let’s take a much closer look:
KC: Freeman 15/26 328yds, 3 TDs, 124.7 rating. Rushing in the first half 9-47yds, 0 TDs, 2nd half 15-98yds, 1 TD. See how things change with a lead?
NO: Freeman 24-42 420yds, 3 TDs, 115.2 rating. Problem here is we had 11 carries total for 85 yards in the first half. 2nd half? 13 carries for 17 yards. Free had 122 yards at the half with 2 TDs, so you can see the production in the 2nd half when the pressure (being behind) was on.
MIN: This one surprised me a bit. Martin had 14-106yds in the first half, but only finished with 29-135. But then I remembered, the first TD in the 2nd half was a 64 yard catch and run from Freeman to Martin (the screen you mentioned). Martin’s only rushing TD was actually set up mostly by Freeman’s passing in the 2nd half. Freeman wasn’t spectacular, but I thought fans were looking for consistent and not losing games (turnovers). 19-36 262yds, 3TDs, 104.2 rating
OAK: First half actually wasn’t great. Martin had 8-31. Freeman 12-21 160, 1TD. I’d give this game to Martin “carrying the team” though, as his 2nd half was phenomenal. Finished with 25-251, 4TDs. Freeman didn’t have to carry this game, but he didn’t do anything to lose it either. He finished with a 108.6 rating.
SD: Losing at halftime leaves a lot to be accomplished, but 21-17 is close and that was all Freeman. Martin had 6-32yds in the first half. Freeman was 6-10, 118 yds, 1TD, and 134.6 rating. Our other 1st half TD was special teams. Free finished the game 14-20 (70%), 210 yds, 2 TDs, 137.5 rating. After Freeman took the lead, the D sealed the deal with a pick 6.
This is to make the stats “readily available” to anyone who may only look at run/pass ratio instead of the whole picture. A passer rating over 100 in 5 consecutive games is pretty darned good. It may not mean he “carried” the team single-handedly, but he was pretty significant in each of those wins. I could actually add in the game directly before those to say Freeman was pretty darned good for 6 straight games. He finished the Redskins game 24-39, 299 yds, 1TD, 1INT, 83.2 rating, but led the team back from down 21-3 to a 22-21 lead with 1:42 left, and the two TD drives were highlighted by a 65 yard completion to Williams and a 54 yarder to Jackson. Of course, our D was horrible that game letting the Skins move the ball at will. We were only so close to winning because Billy Cundiff is a horrible kicker and missed two makeable FGs, but I don’t see how that detracts from Freeman. (Of course, this game also proves my point… we were down 21-3 and the run/pass ratio was 18/39, even higher than the other 5…. 68% pass, 32% run… go figure???)”
July 29th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
@buc1987
he been the starter for 4 1/2 years, and has only 2 offensive coordinators since he has been starting
July 29th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Freeman has started for three and a half seasons of NFL football. Three coordinators in that time. In that time they have finished 4th, 3rd, 4th, and 2nd in the division.
Great post BamBamBuc. I like that the “realist” simply looks past the truth to comment on something else. It’s too bad your, obviously, well informed comments are overlooked by people simply relying on almost a year old memory of what they saw. (Selective memory at that.)
Freeman is far from perfect but he is nowhere near as bad as some of you make him out to be. I guess it will be back to complaining about Dom after Freeman gets his extension.
July 29th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
Actually only played 3 1/2 yrs as a starter so far. This being his 4th if we’re getting technical.
July 29th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
WestCoastBucsFan …there ya go jumping in front me on the 3 and 1/2. LOL
July 29th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Wow the excuses to hate Freeman are really piling up now. Dungeon dwellers
July 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
WCBF: It’s been exceptionally obvious that certain individuals hand pick statistics to suit their argument. I do the same from time to time, but would rather just put the whole truth out there, because it shows the good as well as the not so good so we can all make better assessments. But citing only 2011 and 2012 stats regarding INTs only is nitpicking. Why not include 2010? Why not include TD stats? Why not compare to other players at the same position for the entire 3 year period?
The answer is because a significant number of teams don’t even have the same QB they had 3 years ago. Seattle, Indy, Washington, SF, Tennessee, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Oakland, Minnesota, Carolina, St Louis, Denver, and Arizona. Some have moved on this year to a new QB, like Buffalo, Oakland, Arizona, KC, and possibly the Jets and Eagles.
We’ve got 3 1/2 years of Freeman to go on, but only a year or two on many others. It’s easy to say this guy or that guy has done more because they made the playoffs, but have we seen consistency in them yet? Of course not, they haven’t played enough seasons. Freeman (and the Bucs) only missed the playoffs by a tie-break in 2010 or he’d have the same things said about him as many of the current young QBs will have said about them in a couple years. Can Russell Wilson repeat last year? Can RGIII recover and return to form? Can Kaepernick last a whole season? Can Geno Smith make the Jets instant competitors? Not only that, but how many QBs that HAVE been around as long or longer than Freeman are still question marks? Matt Schaub? Philip Rivers? Tony Romo? Jay Cutler? They’ve all made the playoffs and all still get scrutinized as “inconsistent”, yet some are getting HUGE new contracts. Why? Because it’s not easy finding even a good yet inconsistent QB, much less a franchise one.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
sry for the typo JFro-ites. The losing always makes it seem so much longer. very tired of looking at every other team in the division year after year, except in 2010 when the Bucs finished in front of the Panthers. It is 3 1/2 years.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
LOL@JFro-ites…that’s funny stuff realist.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
3 and 1/2 years?
It wasn’t like this past season was the only time he’s struggled, “Bad Josh” has been a frequent visitor in these here parts lol.
And for all we know he watched all the film possible, I don’t see where anyone could say he made such a poor assessment and decided to make a national ass of himself in an article based off that poor assessment. Or essentially insinuate that?
I don’t think Freeman himself excuses himself as much as some of you excuse him lol, Lord knows our FO won’t any longer after this season if “Bad Josh” decides to rear his ugly head.
Here’s to hoping that’s not the case at all and that this coaching staff has finally found a cure for the manic behavior our favorite topic of discussion suffers from.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
Freeman has 16 games to prove he can take his team to 17 games.
Freeman has an NFL worst 39 INTs the last 2 years.
Freeman has 56 career starts.
It’s now or never time.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
4th best QB in the NFC South!!!! Can’t ask for much more than that I guess
July 29th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
If the potential wasn’t there and so “on the cusp” maybe we couldn’t but he’s close and if it were to be unlocked he would no longer be considered “the 4th best QB in the NFC South”.
He would be “one of the best in the NFL”
July 29th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
the_buc_realist Says:
July 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
@Couch Fan
Thats why I won’t argue with them, Cannot talk sense to the senseless. Jfro-6pak is basically the same Qb as when he started as a rookie. Powerful Arm and can sometimes run, and not much else. You know its bad when a defensive coordinator on national TV says that the Bucs Qb can only look at half of the field in year 4. The fact he needs a strong running game to be successful is very telling. Jfro-6pak can make the playoffs, but it will be because we have great 21 other starters on the team. Or you can find a great QB and have half the great starters and still make the playoffs.
Pretty much nailed the Rob Ryan analysis. And when he said that josh completed 30% for 100 yds. Measly. Rob gets him 2 x a year now.
July 29th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
Stevek… nitpicking again…. why don’t you add in his 2010 numbers instead of just “the last 2 years”. I could nitpick too. He has 9 4th quarter comebacks in 9 games (not consecutive, not even the same season, but he does have 9 4QC in 9 different games). See how that skews objectivity? Are we only looking at INTs? If so, should we break them down to see which ones were just poor throws and which ones bounced off the WRs hands or chest? How many were tipped at the line? What was the down/distance? What was the score at the time? All factors in seeing what kind of QB JF is.
It would be like me saying that Freeman had 25 TDs and only 8 INTs in the first 13 games of 2012. I’m leaving out the last 3 games, because that would look bad if it ended up 27-17. Well, it would also look much better if we said 78 TD, 63 INT, 18 INT came in 9 games as a rookie and another 22 came in a horrendous year where we started every game down 21 points.
I’m honestly surprised no one on here is clamoring for us to have kept Byron Leftwich and never draft Freeman, seeing how Freeman is so horrible. That could be so much better, the yearly battle between Leftwich and McCown to see who blows worse.
July 29th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Great points BamBam…but they still won’t get it. All they see is the negatives.
July 29th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
realist says:
Or you can find a great QB and have half the great starters and still make the playoffs.
^^^ like there are so many available out there
July 29th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@BamBamBuc
Agreed. Stevek especially has this terrible knack for picking and choosing VERY specific stats to “prove” his points. Nobody seems to remember McCown vs Leftwich. Nobody seems to remember how bad a QB can really be. (Seems like this shouldn’t be a problem for Buc fans considering the history here.) It’s like they want Peyton Manning or bust. It’s ridiculous.
Freeman warrants criticism for his inconsistent play but the haters go beyond inconsistency and straight to calling him a horrible QB. As if the man never completed a pass in his life.
Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert have a job. Stafford and Romo got ridiculous extensions. Why? Not because they are elite quarterbacks or because there FO’s are stupid. It is because even mediocre quarterbacks are hard to come by and they know that. There seems to be this HUGE misconception among the haters that good quarterbacks are fairly easy to find. That is simply not the case.
July 29th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
@Couch Fan
Lol calling ME stupid? Please, you, Robert, and Realist take the cake bro, so I’m not gonna hear it from you. 😛 fuckin’ tool
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When you make idiotic senseless statements like the one you just made…. your gonna get called stupid. Thats how it is sweety. Deal with it or dont make stupid comments.
Dont get mad bro. Think before you speak 🙂
July 29th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
@Walter
Lmao, when you make a stupid statement, dont be mad when someone calls you out on your stupidity.
It’s ok though. Calm down, find your maxi pads and think before you speak.
July 29th, 2013 at 4:14 pm
walt calls me out every day and I have never said anything rude….
ya know what F it.
he’s a tool. a jock sniffin jfro apologist tool.
July 29th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
People on here are breaking josh down as good freeman the first 12 and bad josh the last 4. No.
We saw bad josh the first 4.
Good josh te next 6. Bad josh the last 6.
July 29th, 2013 at 4:55 pm
I really find the whole “hater” and “apologist” thing funny. Being on the more supportive side, I still don’t think most fans actually “hate” Freeman, but rather simply want more wins, playoffs and possibly a Super Bowl, much like any fan of any other team in the league. It seems (and I could be wrong) that their thinking is that with a better QB we will supercede or overcome our other deficiencies simply with better offensive production. It has been done before. The Saints and Packers both had pretty bad defenses, yet still won Super Bowls. So, I see the concept, I just disagree with the logic. It’s kind of the “all your eggs in one basket” mentality. If it’s a GREAT basket, why not?
On the other side, I don’t really see the “apologists” apologizing for anything. I don’t see anyone coddling Freeman and saying the Saints game wasn’t his fault as much as the defense, coaching, run game, etc. Most agree that it was a really bad game all around. I mean, yeah, Freeman had 4 INTs, 0 TDs. But Martin only had 9 carries for 16 yards. The #1 rushing D gave up well over 100 yards. Pass D gave up 4 TDs. I don’t see any apologies. Just as the “haters” will place blame on Freeman, the “apologists” are also placing blame, but the blame is spread around to all those who failed, not just one. Does that mean we hate Martin because of a bad game? Of course not. And we don’t hate Freeman because of two 4 INT games either. We “the apologists” see all the blame and spread it around to all those that deserve it. That’s not an apology, not at all.
What’s really funny is that those two games (NO and STL) didn’t even mean anything at that point. We were out of the picture already. Now, if we had won 2 of 4 games where we had the lead in the 4th quarter (Giants, Skins, Falcons, Eagles) and were sitting at 8-5 with a shot at finishing 10-6 or 11-5 and making the playoffs…. of course more blame would go to Freeman in that situation. But that’s not the case. It wasn’t a late season Freeman meltdown, it was an all season pass defense lava flow. It was so bad that it lost enough games that the last 3 meant nothing. Saying Freeman should have done more to win the earlier games is like saying Martin should have upped his yardage and scores in the earlier games and put it on his shoulders…. Seriously, look (rushing yardage in losses Giants: 79, Cowboys: 75, Redskins: 80, Falcons: 50, Broncos: 71, Saints: 67, Rams: 80, only the Eagles and first Saints games were over 100 yards). Why is everyone apologizing for Martin??? Because he was a rookie? Because we just like him (damn jock sniffers)? Because he’s not a QB???
Of course I’m kidding about blaming Martin for losing games. The point is the blame (hate?) needs to be spread around more. There isn’t one single fix (QB) to last year, we need improvements all around. If Freeman can improve a little, it could change 3 or 4 games last year. If the pass D is improved a LOT, it would have changed 3 or 4 games last year. All around, that’s what we need (IMO). No apologies, no hate.
July 29th, 2013 at 5:24 pm
Chris: Freeman went the first 13 games with 25 TDs, 8 INTs. Not all of them were wins, but the numbers were pretty darned good (nearly 2010 numbers in 13 games). If you would like the breakdown (again) of the Giants game, the Cowboys game and the Redskins game, I could probably work it up again. Truth is…. Talib got absolutely torched by Nicks all game long. Wright didn’t fare much better with Cruz, went down with an injury and McDonald got torched. Watch the game, it starts in the first quarter and goes to the final whistle. There is no denying this. Even Martellus Bennett had a field day. The Cowboys game was a comedy of errors on both sides. but what really turned that game was an INT off the chest of the RB that led to a FG, a missed blocked punt by Watson (roughing the kicker declined) and a muffed catch on the same play that led to a Cowboys TD. All the penalties in that game by both teams was horrible to watch. The Redskins game was similar to the Giants game, except it was closer because Cundiff missed two FGs. The Skins simply marched up and down the field on our D. It’s not like it was “bad Josh”, it was bad D and Josh is not Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning to withstand that onslaught and still emerge victorious.
Remember… 13 games, 25 TDs, 8 INTs. It just wasn’t enough in comparison to what we allowed.
July 29th, 2013 at 6:03 pm
Well said BamBamBuc.
July 29th, 2013 at 6:35 pm
No hate…. I just don’t see him being any better than the 1 st year he was the starter…… And an arguement could be made that he has regressed.
July 29th, 2013 at 6:40 pm
If he was an employee at a business and kept making the same mistakes he would be fired.
July 29th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
BamBam, that’s the best worded comment I’ve seen in this chatterbox. Even makes me feel ashamed for partaking in the heated debate. now I just want to hug everybody in here and call u all my brothers.
July 29th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Robert, I run a successful business. I understand how things work and how they work together. You don’t always get rid of the guy with minor flaws or mistakes, especially if the main reason is because he can’t do his job perfectly while at the same time compensating for some other employees major deficiencies. You fix the major deficiencies first, then work with the minor flaws to improve them when you can concentrate on that rather than overcoming other obstacles. Freeman has issues, no doubt. But they were minor compared to our defensive deficiencies. Why let Freeman go when he’s better than average, more often than not, when we had a defense that let teams waltz up and down the field? How is that Freeman’s issue, other than we hope he can overcompensate. Very few are SO good they can do their job and do it so well the other glaring serious issues are masked.
I really don’t think I’ll go back and look over all the QBs drafted in the past 10 years or so, 1st round and all, and show how few ever become even average. I do know that there were over 190 drafted in that time, and we have about 5 elite QBs that are capable of masking serious flaws on teams. Two of those QBs were drafted prior to the past 10 years (Brady, Manning) and one nearly 10 years ago (Brees). That leaves Aaron Rodgers and ??? (pick one or even two QBs that are that good) in 10 years. Having a QB that is pretty good is all most teams get and they call them the franchise QB. Not that he wins all games singlehandedly, but he keeps his team in contention every game. Freeman does that most games, enough to make the playoffs last year with some help.
The Steelers needed a solid defense for Big Ben. The Ravens for Flacco. The Giants D was pretty good for Manning. Very few teams get there with just a QB. Some even get there despite their QB (Bears, Seahawks, etc.)
July 29th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
Nothing wrong with a good debate, Chef. We’re all on the same team, just have a different approach on how to improve. That’s worth debate, but when it breaks down to being petty, we gain nothing from it.
July 29th, 2013 at 11:02 pm
BamBamBuc just kills it every time he hits submit. I learned not too long ago that some here just refuse logic and will ignore known truths in pursuit of debate.
July 29th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Freeman sucks!!!!Nuff said!
July 30th, 2013 at 6:00 am
Same Ol same Ol. I suspect most QB’s have strengths and weaknesses along the route tree. But we here in Tampa can never be satisfied with our man under center. Many actually seek any little morsel to prove their point. In reality, their critical eye is the window to a brain with limited rational thought.
July 30th, 2013 at 10:24 pm
With the amount of time Free has spent in the off season perfecting his game and the years under his belt, he should be looking crisp and balling like a Franchise QB in camp. Instead, everything written and seen tells me he looks like the same old Freeman. He is a pick machine. Hes been that way since he got here. Sure, he looks good for a while but then BAM! Picks flying like bikini tops on dale mabry. Everyone knows this in the NFL. (See above article.) What I think the Glazers and Dom are doing is making the team good enough to get to the big dance in spite of Freeman. You gotta hand it to them. Like 8 or 9 pro bowlers on the team right now? The Martin pick last year? Revis? etc… Dont get me wrong, Freeman is the best QB we’ve had since Steve Young and I’m glad we have him, but don’t kid yourself and think he’s going to turn into one of the elites. He is not that guy and the Bucs know this. He will probably have a season like he did last year. The caveat to this conundrum is the Bucs are a way better team around him this year and we might squeak our way into the playoffs. They will go after another qb if/when they get the chance. Don’t kid yourself, these guys own Man U and have egos the size of icebergs. They want an elite guy under center and know like the rest of you that Free not the guy.