“Where Are Your Values?”
June 24th, 2013
The money question doesn’t sit well with Josh Freeman
Josh Freeman is set to earn $8.43 million plus incentives in 2013, the final year of his rookie contract that was written to pay him up to $36 million. The 25-year-old has no money problems.
Since the closing days of last season, Freeman has been asked repeatedly what his feelings are about the Bucs not giving him a contract extension, and Joe has recognized that Freeman seems more and more disappointed in the question.
It’s as if Freeman wants to answer like this, “What the hell kind of human being would I be if I was caught up in money when I’ve already hit the lottery, and God and my personal life are way more important than more cash I might never spend.”
Of course, Freeman doesn’t say that, but he appears to be getting closer to doing just that.
Take how Freeman responded to the inevitable contract question from WTSP-TV, Ch. 10 sportscaster Dave Wirth last week.
Wirth: Your future is unclear contractually. Do you think about that? Does it bother you?
Josh Freeman: No. Not at all.
Wirth: Really?
Freeman: No. My relationship with Mark Dominik is great. You know, my agent’s awesome. My dad. And you know, it’s weird. Where, I mean, where, where are your values? You know. My family’s awesome. I got great friends. You know, great teammates. Do I want to be a Buccaneer the rest of my life? Heck yeah I do. But, I mean if I can focus on just me and focus on what I have to do from a football standpoint, not worry about the whirlwind, the talks, whatever is going on, if I can focus on me, you know, everything’s going to work itself out regardless.
Freeman went on to say on WDAE-AM 620 the following day that he’d be “content” and at peace if “I just give it the best I got” this season but finishes unwanted by the Bucs or “every other team in the NFL.”
It’s fantastic that Freeman has his personal values in order, though Joe admits Freeman’s public expression of them to this level is rare in a young NFL player, let alone a hungry 25-year-old who’s the face of the franchise.
But Joe’s not hung up on Freeman’s words. They’re worthless. From everything Joe has seen and heard, Freeman has a Grade A work ethic and is thoroughly devoted to football. So what if Freeman is at peace with leaving the game after this season if he’s unwanted?
Joe appreciates Freeman’s honesty and values. Joe remembers that Chucky, whose crafted image was that of the ultimate football-crazed young NFL coach, turned out to be a guy who had no problem walking away from the sidelines.
June 24th, 2013 at 11:51 am
Chucky’s whole career was based upon other peoples talent, prior to coming to the Bucs, everywhere he worked someone else did the heavy lifting of talent evaluation and actually being held accountable for bad signings, he never built a team or even groomed a QB (for which he was somehow credited with doing throughout his coaching career) on his own, and when given these tasks by the Bucs he was an abject failure…
June 24th, 2013 at 11:59 am
This reminds me more of when guys were happy to get paid for playing a sport they would have played for free anyway. Freeman seems to have his priorities in order.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
Hey! Screw the ‘nice guy’ stuff. Give me an ax murderer with a 64% completion that can take us to the playoffs!!!! “I’m Josh Freeman..I love everybody!” Pansy….
The_Buc_Realist
June 24th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
I like his answers, but he still sux.
50 something completion %…..that sux. Hell most QB’s would be homeless with those stats.
he better have values. kind of like saying the fat girl is nice.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
hmmmmm I thought that the glazers fired Gruden after they polled some fans. A little different story then Gruden just walking away.
And Your right about all the talk being meaningless. Like how the pop-star has called Jfro-6pak the franchise and has let the whole rookie contract to run out.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Is he predictable or what??? Gotta bitch about something huh Realist?? LOL!
June 24th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
@flmike
Judge much? Pretty harsh words and evaluation of a guy that brought Tampa a championship. (I know, “it was Dungy’s team”) ….bullshit! It wasn’t his playbook. If I were Josh, and I had a fantastic year, I would leave Tampa next year. Screw the so called a-hole Buc fans and the NY reporter wannabe’s. Because down here, the vitriol ain’t worth being character assassinated over. There have been a lot of hateful and personal things being said about Josh, and if I were him I’d give them the finger on my way out.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
@robert
That was his first full season under 60% (half season his rookie year). I’m not going to get caught up in this whole Josh argument, just stating a fact.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
@flmike
Judge much? Pretty harsh words and evaluation of a guy that brought Tampa a championship. (I know, “it was Dungy’s team”) ….bullcrap! It wasn’t Dungy’s playbook. If I were Josh, and I had a fantastic year, I would leave Tampa next year. Screw the so called a-hole Buc fans and the NY reporter wannabe’s. Because down here, the vitriol ain’t worth being character assassinated over. There have been a lot of hateful and personal things being said about Josh, and if I were him I’d give them the finger on my way out.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Freemans career average completion percentage is 58.8%
in comparison Eli Manning has a LOWER career average completion percentage of 58.6%
but yea… Eli has become homeless with those stats.
check your facts a hole.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
@ junkie
and walk away from a squad with more talent and better coach than 80% of the NFL…….because his widdle pwide was hurt.
if that’s the case……don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:34 pm
Its a no win for Jfro-6pak. If he doesn’t step up, he will be replaced. If he does step up this year, and gets on contract. More than likely Sully will leave and according to the Jfro-6pak apologist, he will fold from changing coordinators again.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
robert Says:
“50 something completion %…..that sux. Hell most QB’s would be homeless with those stats.”
It may interest you to know that you are mistaken. Over their first 4 years of stats, which is the same point Freeman is at, several “elite” QBs fall right in line with Josh.
Eli Manning first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 53.7
Josh Freeman first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.4
Aaron Rodgers first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.9
Joe Flacco first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 61.6
There are some that are more, a lot of QBs…and I mean a LOT have lower than Freeman.
Bucs fans are notorious for giving up on QBs before they really know what they’ve got. Take Dilfer. He wasn’t great, but he was good enough to win with. Had the Bucs stuck with him perhaps, with our defense at the time, we would have won a title sooner. Because Dilfer was no worse than Brad Johnson.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
robert Says:
“50 something completion %. That sux. Hell most QB’s would be homeless with those stats.”
It may interest you to know that you are mistaken. Over their first 4 years of stats, which is the same point Freeman is at, several “elite” QBs fall right in line with Josh.
Eli Manning first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 53.7
Josh Freeman first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.4
Aaron Rodgers first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.9
Joe Flacco first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 61.6
There are some that are more, a lot of QBs, and I mean a lot, have lower than Freeman.
Bucs fans are notorious for giving up on QBs before they really know what they’ve got. Take Dilfer. He wasn’t great, but he was good enough to win with. Had the Bucs stuck with him perhaps, with our defense at the time, we would have won a title sooner. Because Dilfer was no worse than Brad Johnson.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
robert Says
“50 something completion %. That sux. Hell most QB’s would be homeless with those stats.”
Eli Manning first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 53.7
Josh Freeman first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.4
Aaron Rodgers first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 57.9
Joe Flacco first 4 years Completion Rate Average: 61.6
June 24th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
@ the bucs realist
take a day off… you dont need to be a prick every day of your life.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
So, by your reckoning Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning should be homeless as well.
Just something to think about. We Bucs fans tend to give up on QBs far too soon.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
@Realist?
Why do you keep calling him 6pak?
June 24th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
Just something to think about. We Bucs fans tend to give up on QBs far too soon.
———————————————————–
4 years of mediocrity is a rather long time in NFL standards. Fans want wins, you play the game to win not to look nice on paper. If you dont win you get scrutinized. Freeman is no different than any other non winner and he doesnt disserve special treatment. He does disserve to finish out his contract though.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
the_buc_realist Says:
“Its a no win for Jfro-6pak. If he doesn’t step up, he will be replaced. If he does step up this year, and gets on contract. More than likely Sully will leave and according to the Jfro-6pak apologist, he will fold from changing coordinators again.”
Sully could have left this year and didn’t, so there is at least a chance he’ll remain. Even if he doesn’t, hopefully he’ll have done enough for Freeman by then.
As to Freeman being replaced, I wouldn’t be so sure. I think it depends on who the Bucs can get to replace him if it comes to that. If they can only make a lateral move, I think they stay with Freeman but he get’s paid less than expected.
If they can get a top 5 pick in the draft, and they can get a good QB at that point, then maybe they’ll replace him if the need arises.
But my money is on him doing well. I don’t even think the playoffs are a must for Freeman, so long as he isn’t the reason we miss them.
And really, paying him $10 per year is not much more than he gets now.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
$10 mill per year I meant to say.
June 24th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Couch Fan Says:
“Freeman is no different than any other non winner and he doesn’t deserve special treatment.”
I agree. And those QBs got their contracts. Freeman should as well.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
@the_buc_realist – Jimminy Christmas! Even a blind man can see that Gruden didn’t want to coach any longer. The guy could have landed with numerous teams across the league but hasn’t returned. Not too many healthy 45 year old guys obsessed with their profession flat out quit.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
I agree. And those QBs got their contracts. Freeman should as well.
———————————————————————-
I have no doubts if he plays poorly he will still get a contract, either a back up here or starter somewhere else. My point was based on your “Buc fans tend to give up to soon” comment. 4 years is way more time than most have been given in our franchises history. Tampa fans are frustrated, while it might be to soon to give up on someone in the real world, football wise thats just how it goes with any teams fans. This is a win now league, and after for years of losing football, fans want more.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
flmike is dead on… Chucky never built anything…. Just like Obama never built anything. Joe please dont’ pass my email to the NSA
Monte Kiffin was just as responsible for that Superbowl as Chucky!!! And take it another step further, if we played any other team than chucky’s raiders in the Superbowl the Bucs offense would have not looked so good. let’s just be honest that was Dungy’s / Kiffin Team that was LEAD by Defense not “Mastermind Chucky” Joe is absolutely correct. Chucky bailed out.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Not sure why Gruden is relevant to the Free quagmire!
Lets worry about the real issues!
Defensive coaching and scheme…. read pass rush, and Freeman being consistent and less prone to mental lapses.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:34 pm
“4 years is way more time than most have been given in our franchises history. ”
Need I remind you pf Steve Young, or Doug Williams. Even Testaverde and Dilfer had success after leaving the Bucs, though, to be fair the Bucs gave the last two plenty of time to develope & they didn’t. I notice you completely ignore the Stats above on Flacco, Manning & Rogers….inconvenient truth ? When to give up on a QB is difficult, at best, and, frankly, I’ll trust the Bucs coaches & staff over a raw statistic or a message board ‘expert’.
June 24th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
He will be one of the most sought after “FREE” agents if not resigned…
June 24th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
manning and Rodgers both had rings by their 4th starting seasons.
flacco has one as well.
freeman does not belong in the same sentence as them!
and their d was not special. they got whats called “fire in the belly”
you can’t buy it or groom it. it’s built in….or in jfro’s case it’s left out. he’s not a gamer and will fold like a lawn chair as some would say.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
packers and giants d were not special short of the giants D ends.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
I feel for Josh, he must be feeling that he is hated by the press and local fans, had he not had that 5 week span of sub par to bad games, everyone would be talking about his elevation to elite status because prior to that he was playing straight up championship football, he already had several games that he’s brought the team back from 4th qtr deficits, he can be a genuine baller given the right circumstances, but for God’s sake, give the man a break already, I mean I love joebucsfan as my 1st choice for Buc news, but it seems everytime I open up the page, there’s some kind of story on him that borders being negative, even though joe has publicly stated several times that they think Josh will have a good enough year to warrant a new contract, I still feel that people are trying to stir up stuff that’s just not there. Perhaps it’s the amount of replies that keeps this subject a hot one, I think he’s been remarkably kind and patient with his remarks and answers that touch on his play/contract/lack of love, ect. It’s my hope he’s says the hell with the contract and those that question my ability, and comes out like gangbusters, maybe he’ll be so driven to shut people up about his contract and make it become secondary to proving his greatness to everyone!
June 24th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
@ tmaxcon
Dungy would have never got us to the super bowl. NEVER. I challenge you to listen to Warren Sapp interviews about how Gruden gave the team the kick in the ass and just enough offense that they needed to win.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Robert,
The giants D wasn’t special? Are you kidding me? Their front seven were great. The back up D linemen would have started for most teams and the packers D led the league in sacks and touchdowns I believe. If you don’t want to put Free in there category that’s fine but to say their Ds weren’t special is ridiculous.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:15 pm
I think its funny that the haters believe Freeman being allowed to go into a contract year is an indication of ANYTHING. Drew Brees much? (He played through the final year of his contract.)
The haters say he would already be locked up but complain that he is not good enough? Really? Perhaps Dom learned a little something from the Jets about extending a player earlier than is necessary? (It’s not like Freeman is going broke anytime soon.)
@Couch Fan
The self proclaimed “realist” calls him 6 pack because he has fallen for the propaganda fabricated by a few commenters here about Freeman being “a drunk”. (Talk about gullible.) What else would you expect from someone that has so much trouble saying anything original?
I can’t say I agree with your “four years of mediocrity” rant. If a top ten offense is mediocre then you simply have unreasonable expectations. Wins are a product of a team effort, not a single player. I feel you base most of your evaluation of Freeman on the win/loss record. That is simply not the way to evaluate any one single player.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
By the way, nobody should really be taking anything robert says seriously. He has openly said that he would take Orlovsky over Freeman. Proof that he literally has no idea what he is talking about.
https://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=89452
June 24th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
“I notice you completely ignore the Stats above on Flacco, Manning & Rogers….inconvenient truth ?”
——————————————————-
Because it had absolutely nothing to do with what my post was about? Wild concept I know.
“When to give up on a QB is difficult, at best, and, frankly, I’ll trust the Bucs coaches & staff over a raw statistic or a message board ‘expert’.”
———————————————————
Lol, I never claimed to be an expert nor did I say anything about not trusting the staff. Breath man, it’ll be ok.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Robert, Eli Manning won a Superbowl in year 5, not within his first 4 years. Both the Packers and Giants had good defenses in their superbowl years.
Don’t make untruthful statements that mislead people. Check the facts first.
Aaron Rodgers is the highest of the 4 QBs mentioned his percentage was only 4% above Freeman. He took over a team that had been a contender under Favre for years. The team did not even have to rebuild.
Eli was drafted by the Chargers and immediately traded to the Giants. It took him 5 years to become elite. By your standards he should have been traded just before his superbowl year. And his rating was worse than freemans.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
wrong again westcoastcheerleader
he is called 6-pak from all the weight he lost and the great shape he will be in this year. Just lazy to type out “abs”
June 24th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
Some more evidence to roberts ineptitude:
There is no way a “fan” that wishes injury on his own teams players has ANY credibility at all.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
@”realist”
Really? If so then you are about a year late. Freeman lost that weight in 2012. (Unless he lost even more weight?)
June 24th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
I also like that typing out “6-pak” is easier to type than “abs” despite it being more characters.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
@ WCB I stand by my statements. Orlovsky actually went through his progressions and looked great, although it was pre-season.
IMO he looked better than jfro and should have been put in when jfro was hungover.
I never wished injury…….maybe withdrawals, but not injury.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
@WCBF
Ah now that makes sense about the 6pak thing. I should of picked up on that one.
About the 4 years of losing football. My comment was more of a general sense that fans have a right to be fed up with mediocrity, not Freeman specifically. Now having said that, Freeman has said himself that this is a QB driven league. I dont hold Freeman soley accountable for the 4 seasons of losing football. You keep saying this but I have said time and time again that the defense is by far the single biggest problem on the team. But some of the blame falls on Freeman. YOU are the one who refuses to place any blame on Freeman… or the offense at all.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
@”realist”
Knowing your modus operandi, your 6-pak insult had nothing to do with his abs. We all know your insult was in reference to Josh’s alleged drinking problem and it would be remiss of you to actually give him a compliment.
June 24th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Big Rob – Dungy may not have taken the bucs to the Superbowl. I agree with that. One could argue the firing of Dungy alone was enough to wake up the Team… All I am saying, Gruden is / was NOT the genius boy wonder he was made out to be.
June 24th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
I agree that Gruden is not a good coach. Yes, he was able to fire the players up…but all that wore off when they learned the kind of man Gurden really was. At that point, only the players that were like him actually cared for him.
Gruden came into a ready-made team needing only a few pieces on offense. After that first year, it was a complete roller coaster ride as he destroyed everything the team had become.
I mean, the Bucs were well respected under Dungy. We got players into the Pro Bowl every year, back when the fans had no say in it. Gruden caused us to lose that respect.
Raheem did nothing to regain it.
Schiano is off to a good start. I firmly believe we will win a bowl game with Schiano. Maybe more than one. But if we do it will have to be with Josh Freeman because if we go with Glennon or some other young guy it will delay winning to the point that Schiano will likely be fired before we see very much success.
Josh Freeman is better than average. His Quarterback Rating averages over 57% since he got drafted. That’s not great, not yet, but it is better than Eli Manning was at the same point. And if Eli can become elite, so can Freeman.
I believe in him. I think cutting him would be a huge mistake. There is greatness in the kid and at 25 he’s got plenty of time to achieve his full potential.
I also believe in Sully. Eli’s rating dropped dramatically without Sully there. That means Sully can help Josh get better and better.
June 24th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
@Couch Fan
Not to be a stickler but 2010 was a 10-6 season. “Four seasons of losing football” is not an accurate statement.
Also, I don’t blame Freeman or the offense. This is correct. In this league, it is not about being elite at every position, it is about being good enough to contend every year.
Last year, without a doubt, the offense was good enough to make the playoffs. As in, it was statistically better than seven of the twelve teams that played in the playoffs. (More than half.) The defense though, was statistically worse than EVERY team in the playoffs.
The defense was so terrible that it sunk the entire team by itself. When you have a part of your team that is the second worst at ANYTHING in NFL history then that is where the entirety of your blame falls.
I am not saying the offense should not play better. I am saying it should not have to.
June 24th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
There goes that damn 25 year excuse again. Josh Freman is a man, the lame excuses are more of a put down of him than looking at him with honest eyes. What happend to him in the middle of last years season we will never know unless Josh addresses it forthright . He has to take ownership for his decline last year. I believe that Photo Shoot took his mind away from football and blinded him with thoughts and words of Hollywood and fame. Winning Football is the best way for him to achive that dream. Can he do it? Yes! Will he? Only Josh can answer this question with his play. Go Josh, Show us what you’ve got.
June 24th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
WCBF,
You mention “no one player should be evaluated by a team’s ‘win-loss’ record”.
Then you argue the “four years of mediocrity” with, “but he was 10-6 in 2010”.
BTW, copy and pasting from prior posts is pu$$y like.
🙂
June 24th, 2013 at 5:18 pm
Wow, what good drafts we’ve had since Schiano combined forces with Dominick. I really like the direction of this team.
June 24th, 2013 at 5:18 pm
I swear the JF debate is like the energizer bunny lol
On Topic:
Nice mindset for JF IMO
June 24th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
WCBF,
The offense needs to play more consistently.
June 24th, 2013 at 5:23 pm
@ WCBF
Technically, I’d say our offense last year was still somewhat mediocre. We were 9th in YDS/G, but 13th in total points. Which one matters most?
And besides, even if you use YDS/G as a measuring stick, we only gained nine more YDS/G than the 15th-ranked team. And to me being ranked 9th in a league of 32 teams is nothing special. The best eight teams are the top 25 percent, the worst eight are the bottom 25 percent, and the 16 teams in the middle are the mediocre 50 percent.
Of course, as a franchise, that’s a pretty good year for us, because historically we’ve been so pathetic that we aspire to mediocrity on offense. Last year, nine teams scored more than 400 regular-season points. We have never done that. Ever. In 38 years. In fact, we set our all-time record last season with 389 points.
The Falcons have scored more than 400 points the past three consecutive seasons. The Saints have done it five times in the last seven seasons. Even the Panthers cracked the 400 point milestone as recently as 2011. So, we lag offensively even in our own division.
I hope to have a truly explosive offense here someday. We’re at least moving toward that reality. But when the team and its fans seem to think that frivolous things like productive slot receivers and pass-catching tight ends are just extraneous personnel who really don’t matter, it’s hard not to believe offensive mediocrity might continue to be the standard around here.
June 24th, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Some of you on both sides of the debate should get an award for being able to say the same thing in so many different ways.. Jajaja
BRAVO BRAVO *applause
June 24th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
@Illuminate
Agreed.
June 24th, 2013 at 5:39 pm
Great post Illuminati
Now there’s some new perspective
June 24th, 2013 at 5:41 pm
“Of course, as a franchise, that’s a pretty good year for us, because historically we’ve been so pathetic that we aspire to mediocrity on offense.”
Truth
June 24th, 2013 at 5:57 pm
@Stevek
Read much, lol, I never said “he was 10-6”, I said “2010 was a 10-6 season.” Not only that but it was in response to “four years of losing football”. Not mediocrity. I was pointing out the FACT that because 2010 was a winning season the statement “four seasons of losing football” is false.
BTW, blindly responding to posts without actually reading them is “pussy like”.
🙂
June 24th, 2013 at 5:58 pm
@Illuminati
There is some truth to your post. With that said, the offense still had more points per game than one playoff team, the Vikings. They were also within one point per game of three more teams, Bengals, Niners, Ravens. This math also applies to the defense where the Bucs were still worse than every team that made the playoffs.
Wait, are you saying four “mediocre” teams make the playoffs every year? Just curious.
The Falcons (8th) only gained 5.3 more yards a game than us. The Texans(7th) only had 8.3 more yards per game than us.
We have a pro bowl receiver, a damn good second receiver, a pro bowl running back, one of the best offensive lines in football but you think we need more? Don’t you think that is a little much? The slot and TE positions are a part of the game but we can’t have studs at literally every position. The slot and TE are role players in this offense. Not saying great players wouldn’t be utilized, just that they are not critical.
I am sorry but I believe the offense is already playoff worthy. (Not that there isn’t room for improvement.) The defense is the one that needs to step up here for us to have a chance this season.
June 24th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
@Stevek
Read much?
When did I say that? I said “Not to be a stickler but 2010 was a 10-6 season. “Four seasons of losing football” is not an accurate statement. ” . When did I say “he was 10-6 in 2010″?
I didn’t realize holding people accountable for their own words was “pu$$y like”. I think a more accurate definition of “pu$$y like” might be someone that misreads and fabricates quotes to make a point.
June 24th, 2013 at 6:50 pm
8.43 mil for Mr. Mediocrity?
June 24th, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Really useless comment about Gruden at the end of the article. I guess JBF doesn’t have any kids he wants to spend some time with after taking most of their lives off. I’d expect that kind of crap from Shaun Burger-King.
June 24th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
Omg at the jfro jock swingers. Our d sucked but they were ups guys playing cb and a 68 year old safety. They did not have the tools. Jfro does and sucked wind a good portion of the season. Being common or mediocre with that kind of potential is failure. Failing is ok as long as he learns from it.
June 24th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
@ WCBF
Actually, no. I was referring to a team’s ranking in any particular statistical category, not the overall quality of the team.
However, mediocre teams do in fact make the playoffs all the time. Two of the past three seasons we’ve seen teams without winning records get into the postseason.
No, I don’t think that’s in any way a little much. Good teams avail themselves of every opportunity to upgrade their rosters and put as many playmakers as possible onto the field.
Viewing certain positions as nothing more than “role players” is the type of settle-for-mediocrity thinking that guarantees never having extraordinary players at those positions.
June 24th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
So, whether a team is mediocre or not is determined by which statistical category they are being mentioned in? Do you mean they are only mediocre in the particular stat being mentioned? (Not necessarily mediocre as a team?) In this definition, you are implying that 9th and 23rd best teams are grouped together as “mediocre” in any given stat, yes?
I am all for upgrading at every opportunity but what more could they have done to upgrade the talent at these positions? Do you think Welker was going anywhere but a proven top tier offense? Do you think Amendola would pass up the opportunity to catch passes from Tom Brady?
I agree that, if there is such an opportunity, they should upgrade. I just don’t think there has been a clear upgrade realistically available. Who could the Bucs have acquired this offseason, that was realistically available, that would be clearly better than Crabtree, Ogletree, Underwood, Stocker, etc? (Our current crop of TEs and slot WRs.)
June 24th, 2013 at 8:31 pm
WestCoastBucsFan wants to have Freeman’s baby. If someone were to say “Freeman looks tired this morning” WestCoastBucsFan would pee her pants and, of course, call the person a “hater”.
June 24th, 2013 at 8:48 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You don’t want to be called a hater but then you call yourself Mean D.
oxymoron
June 24th, 2013 at 9:41 pm
The bottom line I think for Freeman is he needs to complete more of the short and intermediate passes that move the chains. Jackson and Williams bail him out on quite a few deep passes that they are just incredible at high pointing and out wrestling DB’s for. It’s the short crossing routes and touch passes in the flats that he too often misses badly on. He severely limits any yards after the catch when he can’t accurately complete those. This is the area that separates the elite QB’s from the rest.
June 24th, 2013 at 11:22 pm
gotbucs, I might agree with this, especially if it were after the 2011 season when everything went wrong and Freeman was definitely off on the short throws, but last year wasn’t that bad for him in those areas. He did hit guys in stride, he did hit guys on the break, when they got open, in the hands. There weren’t that many off target in the short to intermediate areas. What I did notice was there were a lot of hooks, comebacks, bubble screens, etc, which either have the WR moving in the wrong direction at the time of the catch to gain more yards or at a dead stand still and no momentum.
Due to a comment the other day regarding 3rd down conversion %, I have actually begun again watching the season to see just such scenarios. It is amazing how many times (in the games I’ve watched again, 6 of them so far and I’ll keep going) Freeman completed a pass on 3rd down, but the route limited the WRs ability to advance the ball. We would gain 6 yards on a 3rd and 7, 12 yards on a 3rd and 13. Most of this was they type of route, not Freeman throwing badly or the WR not fighting for yards, the route wasn’t conducive (in those scenarios, the deep routes were in stride and lots of YAC) to gaining any extra yards.
Now, going back to the 3rd down conversion % conversation and not your’s, gotbucs…. it is also interesting how many times we ran the ball on 3rd down and failed to convert. 3rd and 1 for no gain. 3rd and 4 for 3 yards. 3rd and 1 for a loss of 3. Happened over and over. QB sneak was typically successful (I think we missed once last year on 3rd and 1, but made the 4th down attempt). What I’m getting at with this is that those scrounging for any category in which the offense was in the bottom half of the league in (like 3rd down conversion) need to understand how much of that was play calling (coaches) and team (RBs, OL, etc). Blame Freeman if you want for a poor 3rd down conversion rate, but I will have a breakdown at some point of just how many 3rd down attempts were runs and how many were passes, how many failed at each and what was the real reason for the bad statistic. I’m telling you right now though, it’s not all on Freeman from what I’ve seen so far. So, keep digging for your stats, I’ll keep watching the games, tracking the situations, and finding the truth. Because that’s what I want to know, the truth. If Freeman is a problem, I’ll know it, but having watched last season about 6 times over, I already know he wasn’t the problem.
Robert: JFro sucked a good portion of the season? He was top 10 in almost every category, top 5 in quite a few all the way up through the first Falcons game (I know, just watched it a couple days ago and saw the stats the announcers were showing). One of the best through 11 games.
Anti-Freeman crowd: Watching the Eagles game was interesting. You can probably tell just looking at the stats for the game, so you don’t have to watch it. The names being called all game long for the Eagles offense were Nick Foles, Bryce Brown, Riley Cooper, Jason Avant, Clay Harbour. Jeremy Maclin wasn’t a factor until the final drive. Desean Jackson, Lesean McCoy, Mike Vick, Brian Celek… all the big offensive names were not called. Virtually every skill position was a backup, and yet the D gave up a 2 score lead in the 4th. Barber. David and McCoy stood out on D, everyone else was off. Mason Foster was so bad, he ran 5 yards past Foles, looked at him, stood there and watched him run in for a TD. Nick Foles converted not only that TD, but two first downs rushing the ball… (you’ll love this stat…) a QB that rushed for -73, -113, -103 his last 3 years in college.
This from NFL.com on Nick Foles: Weaknesses
Foles’ mobility has been his Achilles’ heel and likely will be exposed even more at the next level. He is solely a pocket passer and hardly ever moves the chains with his feet. He has the ability to extend plays, but he is not going to outrun any defenders at the next level.
Yet he made Mason Foster look foolish… the entire Bucs D actually.
I know that was only one game, but I’m sick of hearing about it as Freeman’s fault when I look at those skill position players, see what Foles did to us, and knowing we had a 2 score lead.
Back to 3rd down attempts… look at that game:
3rd and 13 – DJ Ware runs for -7 FAIL
3rd and 10 – Freeman to Jackson for 19 SUCCESS
3rd and 3 – Freeman incomplete FAIL
3rd and 9 – Freeman incomplete FAIL
3rd and 1 – Martin runs for -1 FAIL
3rd and 26 – Freeman incomplete FAIL (but can you really blame any QB?)
3rd and 8 – Freeman incomplete FAIL
3rd and 18 – Freeman sacked O-LINE FAIL
3rd and 4 – Freeman incomplete FAIL
3rd and 1 – Freeman TD SUCCESS
3rd and 6 – Freeman incomplete FAIL
3rd and 9 – Freeman runs for 13 SUCCESS
3rd and 7 – Freeman to Jackson 28 yards SUCCESS
3rd and 2 – Martin TD SUCCESS
3rd and 8 – Martin no gain FAIL
First off, understand that there were only 3 “3 and out’s” in that game for the Bucs. All the other 3rd downs were on possessions where we gained at least one 1st down. We can all say there are a lot of FAILs in there, a lot for Freeman too, but not all on Freeman. 33% of our attempts were runs, only 2 succeeded (one by Freeman himself, the other a Martin TD). Even more interesting is looking at the SUCCESS’s. Freeman is responsible for 4 of the 5 conversions. Freeman actually achieved 9 1st downs in the game via passing and running.
Just some numbers for those that didn’t fall asleep during all that. A few may appreciate it, a few may learn something, and a few will bash me for making things up (which I’m not, this is what happened).
June 25th, 2013 at 9:15 am
BamBam,
Bravo! Nice post. Freeman needs to be better. Look at the Dallas game, and his inability to audible during crunch time.
The team will be better around Josh. We just need him to have soaked up this offense and to be more consistent and reading a play, and throwing the ball.
June 25th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
@bambam. You sound like you are Josh’s dad. VJ just said Josh is getting better this year. That means last years performance wasn’t his best. Let’s all just let his play this year determine his future. Play good-big contract; weak play-ride the bench. If that sounds harsh, ask Brooks, Lynch and some others how they were treated.
July 10th, 2013 at 9:15 am
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