Knee Confidence Surfaces Again
June 10th, 2013
It’s been two years since rockstar general manager Mark Dominik was a guest on The Jim Rome Show and told a national audience that the Bucs’ medical staff knows knees, isn’t scared of knees, and can manage the nastiest knees in the business.
It’s not just talk. There’s plenty of track record there for team trainer Todd Toriscelli and his award-winning staff.
The Bucs squeezed 48 consecutive games out of Kellen Winslow’s torn up knee, guided a truly stunning comeback (twice) of Cadillac Williams’ horrific knee injuries, and intelligently passed on Antonio Bryant in free agency (the Bengals weren’t as wise). There were other success stories, as well. And the Bucs are counting on Darrelle Revis’ successful knee rehabilitation, and on the damaged knees of Adrian Clayborn and DaQuan Bowers, who scared off the rest of the NFL on draft day with his bad knee.
Joe noted in passing earlier that this well known knee bravado likely was a big piece of the Gabe Carimi trade puzzle. Guard-tackle Carimi, who the Bucs dealt for last night, had serious knee issues since early in his rookie year in 2011, after being selected by the Bears in the first round of the NFL Draft.
Joe’s not sure whether longterm it’s a good or bad thing that the Bucs are so confident in guys with bad knees. This season surely should answer that question.
June 10th, 2013 at 10:36 am
I like that we are taking chances.
June 10th, 2013 at 10:36 am
too bad the Pop-star does not know winning more than bad knees, Maybe he is due to hit on one of these gambles. Winslow barely played a 1 year and 5 game before he could not get separation anymore. And in the Detroit game he look like George Costanza after someone yelled fire pushing everyone down within the vicinity. The Refs could have called 15 offensive pass interference that game.
June 10th, 2013 at 10:42 am
This trade has little downside. Carimi would have to be a complete invalid to get outplayed by a 6th round draft pick next year. I think this was a no brainer and a smart pick up by the Rock Star. Dom is the bomb!
June 10th, 2013 at 11:02 am
SteveK,
The entire draft is one of chances. Injuries happen and some player’s just don’t work out.
I agree that the Bucs shouldn’t make it an order of business to take chances on damaged goods to pay below market. And I don’t think they are doing that.
With today’s advances in sports medicine, today’s injuries are no longer career-ending as they were a few years back. The Bucs have a right to put a lot of faith in their medical staff because of all the players that have been taken with a medical concern, I can’t remember a single one that failed because of that particular medical issue.
It’s a risk/reward business! I would be more concerned about Carimi’s overall talent and ability to play up to his original draft grade than I would his knee injury and that bar has been lowered because he’s now a 6th round pick!
June 10th, 2013 at 11:05 am
its a “hope for the best, expect the worse” situation with Carimi. Im not so sure that the bears think they fleeced the bucs. I mean they got a 6th rounder for a guy who is widely regarded as a bust. but I digress, I still have confidence in Dom.
June 10th, 2013 at 11:12 am
Dr. Rock Star
June 10th, 2013 at 11:12 am
This is yet another strike against the Dom hater agenda.
Where Raheem Morris gave you plenty of follies to laugh at, The Big Dom gets to take credit from his immensely experienced staff.
Shaun Kings biggest flaw in his crusade against Dom is that he is ignoring the experience of football minds in the organization actually performing the football skill evaluations.
June 10th, 2013 at 11:24 am
I like the upside a former first round pick (ONLY TWO YEARS AGO!) presents, especially at the cost of only a sixth round pick. With that said. There wasn’t a single a Bears fan defending this guy on PFT. Most of them referred to him as the “human turnstile”. However, he has been injured for most or all of his career in Chicago so, who knows? Maybe if he gets healed up he can do some damage for us. I certainly hope he can. If he even comes back to be average it will be a great deal. (Talk about the best offensive line in football down in Tampa.)
@Macabee
Well said!
June 10th, 2013 at 11:26 am
The Bucs know knees, and Bostad knows Carimi, so they must feel that at the very least he gives us good depth. He’s also only 24, so Bostad may think he still has a lot of upside. Certainly seems like good use of a future sixth-round pick to me. I don’t see how people could find much to complain about with this trade.
Apparently, a lot of people around here think Dom is a complete failure if he can’t parlay every sixth- and seventh-round pick into a starter.
June 10th, 2013 at 11:27 am
If Dominik’s sole intention is looking for value in guys with chronic knee problems, is such a huge gamble when we are in need of healthy depth at the position. Such as in Gabes situation, Todd and his staff didn’t do the surgeries, so they will certainly put his knee through some rigorous testing, when he comes in for his physical.
What happens if they don’t like what they see? Do we nullify the trade or do they prep him for more surgery and lose him for the remainder of the season. Hopefully, this will end up being a high reward for a low risk move, and he may just require some good coaching instead of a long knee rehab.
June 10th, 2013 at 11:51 am
“Mark Dominik was a guest on The Jim Rome Show and told a national audience that the Bucs’ medical staff knows knees, isn’t scared of knees, and can manage the nastiest knees in the business.”
“Steve Smith — no, the other Steve Smith, the one who played for the Giants — is retiring at the age of 28, citing nagging knee issues that prevented him from playing up to his potential after microfracture surgery in 2010. Smith, who won a Super Bowl ring in 2008 and was named to the Pro Bowl in 2009, was set to play for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers this upcoming year after signing a one-year, $780,000 deal in the offseason”
June 10th, 2013 at 11:52 am
Kind of like dating an overweight girl with a very pretty face. She’s working out and hoping to lose weight. Could be a home run or a waste of time and money. And there is always the risk of a relapse.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
^^^This^^^
June 10th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
I remember hearing about this injury when it happened. I don’t remember hearing to much about other players breaking there knee caps so I’m guessing this is an uncommon injury. I’m no doctor so no idea how much of a career threatening injury this is… anyone else know anything about it?
June 10th, 2013 at 12:40 pm
Carimi only needs to play up to a 5th round pick to make this a good trade….plus he has NFL experience. If he plays to a 3rd or 4th round level…this is a real win for the Bucs.
Look at we got for our 6th rounders in the last few years….even the third round (Myron) can be frought with uncertainty….second round (Price)…..I don’t think there is much of a gamble here.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
I sit here and faithfully read about my BUCS. Day after day, week after week. They sign this 1 never-has-been guy who may or may not start and there are 20 articles about it. Thanks for the knowledge and coverage but c’mon. Lets get to the real dirt. I have pending questions about this upcoming season that never get answered. We BUCS fans deserve some solid interviews with the coaching staff about the important stuff.
-Very nice to see this secondary make improvements, bu are us fans to expect this defensive front to be able to suport them? These front we had last year was pretty bad and everey bit to blame for all the yardage and points we allowed.
-Are we going to see Josh use his legs as a weapon for us this year with a few plays designed to utilize his wheels? Freeman was not very mobile last year and the offensive system did not seem to be geared to let him run at all. In the past he had plays draw up to use his legs as it was very sucessful. Why did they get away from that?
-Is our gameplan gonna take the ball out of the QB’s hands when we get 2nd half leads again? Agaist the giants and eagles were the two games that stick out for me. We tried to run out the lead in those games(and others) only to get burned by 3 and outs. Even with an improved defense I have trust in Josh to make big passes when we need it. Even if he makes a costly mistake I would not fault the gameplan. I can, however, look directly to our gameplan in the above-mentioned games and say that we could of done more.
-Another thing that is always on my mind is the draft. The BUCS short-term track record was pretty lousy, but last years class was spectacular!! What was the difference? Can we expect this to be the norm for now on? Or was it just a lucky bid.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
@Couch Fan
I believe Davin Joseph had the same injury. Hopefully it is not career threatening.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
hahaahha Carimi only has to play up to a 5th round pick? Wasn’t Tom Brady a 5th rounder?
Then you got a bunch of 5th round players who have done squat. Heck, there are plenty of 1st round duds to go around……like yours truely.
Ummmm don’t know where to go from there, lets hope he’s a good strong player though.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:52 pm
@DOUGismyHERO
A former first round pick being traded only two years after being selected is quite newsworthy. (Especially when it is for a measly 6th round pick.) All of your aforementioned topics would be pure speculation articles at best as no one knows how the defensive line or Freeman will do until the season starts.
Keep in mind that we are in the middle of June. There is not a whole lot going on right now. Not really practicing much, no draft pending, free agent frenzy all but over. A trade is certainly newsworthy and given the fact that nothing else is going on, I believe the coverage is warranted.
June 10th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
@Doug
Not sure if your a troll or what but usually when the Bucs trade or acquire a new player, there is often multiple articles about it because IT IS Buc news. You may not want to hear about it but that really doesnt matter when the rest of us do.
June 10th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
Wow, I’m reading the comments and it is surprizing that Mark Dominic gets critized. Sure his terure here didn’t start off great. One thing I remember most from 2011 was watching this team quit on the field. Thats just my opinion though.
But I refuse to worry about years ago. Last year I loved what I saw. This young team(and coaches) still needs pieces and growing but I was impressed with the progress we made in 1 year.
I though Dominic did a good job through all our changes. He got some spending money and brought in one of the best free agent signings, Vincent Jackson. Now he has brought in a new safety to help with the defense. Who’s to say this won’t be another good signing?
He takes responsibility for the final decision of drafted players. Can anybody complain about the rookies we had in 2012? Lets give the guy a chance and see how our rookies play their roles this year.
Don’t know where Reavis fits into this conversation but the guy has Defensive Player of the Year ability!! If we fall apart and suffer this year I may be jumping on Dominic’s back with some of you. But I really want to see how we play this year first and have a good feeling.
June 10th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Just watched the video on Buccaneers.com for the the Buccaneers players that shaved their head for cancer. (Also, one with an update for Revis that shows Dom bald-ish.) I noticed that Mason Foster is among those that got his head shaved. I seem to remember him having dreads, albeit short ones. Either way, commendable thing these guys did. You guys should check out both videos.
June 10th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Hey Couch and West,
I am not upset about the number of articles over this. I was just kinda hinting that it would be nice to read an interview or something about the BUCS system and how it is expected to evolve for Doug and Josh and the rest.
Of course I know that this is big news now and must be covered. Don’t know how I came off like a troll but OK, wasn’t the intention. Hey, I figured at the least it may open some conversation to fellow fans like yourselves.
June 10th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
Of course it would be nice to see that but if something like that was available it would already be up. I’m not sure what you are getting at? Is Joe supposed to materialize interviews and such out of thin air? You can’t write an article on something that doesn’t exist.
You came off like a troll because you called Joe out for writing so many articles about Carimi and made it seem as if it didn’t warrant the attention it was receiving. If you want to start a conversation about something not related to the article, this really isn’t the place. (Although the “realist” attempts to hijack every single article thread with his non sense rants.) Something like that is much better placed in a forum. (I actually wouldn’t mind a forum section here on JBF. Joe, if you are listening, what do you think? You could even extend your ads to the forum sections.)
June 10th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
West Coast,
Schiano had a hand in the 2012 draft.
Josh Freeman needs to have a “show me” year.
You come across as the over aggressive lap dog, yipping at the heals of those who comment.
C’mon BucRealist, join the mayhem!. 😉
June 10th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
Its laughable that you hold onto that one comment and ignore the rest of the ones Joe made. If Schiano simply opened a door for Dom to get into the draft war room then he would have “had a hand in the 2012 draft.” You come across as a defensive, stubborn, ignorant, “fan” that ignores facts.
That is about all I can do for you as I am fresh out of troll feed.
June 10th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
WestCoast:
Schiano had a (very) limited imput. The West Virginia duo is evidence of that.
Schiano did not, as some would have you believe, order Dominik who to draft. That’s just nonsense and Schiano has said as much.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
You come across as a defensive, stubborn, ignorant, “fan” that ignores facts.
That is about all I can do for you as I am fresh out of troll feed.
^^ I can say the same about your passive aggressive fanship, you are quick to “know it all”, and dismissive of other’s opinions/thoughts. I just wanted to get you all fired up because it seemed like you were jumping down “DOUGismyHERO’s” throat.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the Bucs in the 2013 playoffs, that is the expectation.
I like your term “troll feed”. We can just say that your trolling arse probably ate his luck charms before logging in to make sharp, narrow minded comments.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:07 pm
@Joe
Come on, you have done this more than once to me. You read the first line of my post and then direct your comment at me when I was responding to someone else. You should be directing your comment at SteveK as you are quoting his quote FROM my post.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
how do explain that for years the pop-star was saying how running backs are devalued, he was even bragging one year that none of the running backs on the roster were even drafted. Then Schiano comes and we draft a RB in the first round. Look , after Raheem left, some front office roles changed a little. a puppet will never say he is a puppet.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
@lightningbuc
Seriously? You’re citing the Steve Smith signing as evidence that the Bucs’ staff misjudged his knee issues? That signing was mostly patronage. Just a favor to a powerful sports agent.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
@SteveK
I want you to read your first post.
^^^This is the definition of what a troll does. I responded to DOUGismyHERO because of his criticizing the attention this trade was getting. I was . . . wait for it . . . talking about the subject of this article. You promptly directed a post at me that had literally nothing to do with this article. Just like the self proclaimed “realists” post here. Literally nothing to do with this article.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
@DouGismyhero
I actually agree with you that it would be great to see more substantive reports…I believe that they are hard to come by.
Joe:
Here are a few areas to really dig into:
Josh Freeman/Running
Future Status of Last years picks: Smith, Tandy, Goode
TE: We had Tyler Eifert #1 if we had a first round pick…was that a need pick or BPA?….
Myron Lewis…..What gives?
How much influence does Sullivan have on Game Day Offensive calls ie 4th & short? Gameplan with lead? etc….
Whst is the real story behind Legarrett Blount’s exit?
I realize you probably have all of this on your drawing board but are unable to get answers….It would be great to know what you are trying to find out for us and are running into a dead end.
Thanks for what you do uncover.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:31 pm
@WestCoast,
I guess I see how my comment could easily seem like an attempt to be bashing the columnists here but that wasn’t the intention. I do not think Carimi is not worth the attention. I did say he was a never-has-been because thats my honest opinion, not literal of course.
Maybe I am wrong about what this website does but from the way I read it seems like the columinist are able to get behind the scenes.
I read the article about Davis Joseph and it sounded like they know him on a personal note. If thats the case and they can get inside the locker room I was basically requesting they do an interview with some of the coaches. I said it in kind of a round-about way, but was merely trying to make my cmment a little more entertaining to read.
I do a lot of reading about the Buccanears and never really get to hear much about our gameplans and the things I mention. I just though it’d be cool to read about how coach staff would respond to such matters but maybe they don’t dothat here.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
SteveK,
In my search for the elusive video of Schiano talking about how he has no time for the 2012 draft because he was too busy hiring coaches, I ran across a rather interesting video at buccaneers.com that actually makes me think that Schiano had more than a hand in that draft. This is his press conference the night that Doug Martin was drafted. What were the first words out of Schiano’s mouth? To listen to Joe, or WCBF, you would think it would have been “Thank God for Mark Dominik”. But it wasn’t. Nope. Schiano’s first words are “We’re excited. You know, I have experience with his coach. We go back aways.” Hmmm, surely Schiano had no time to do any sort of digging around on Doug Martin, what with all the coach hiring and meal planning that he had to do.
http://www.buccaneers.com/multimedia/videos/HC_Greg_Schiano_PC_Doug_Martin/71c286d0-dfe7-44e6-a744-6cc82de8ef1f
June 10th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
WCBF posts this:
“I was . . . wait for it . . . talking about the subject of this article.”
after he already posted this in the same thread:
Just watched the video on Buccaneers.com for the the Buccaneers players that shaved their head for cancer. (Also, one with an update for Revis that shows Dom bald-ish.) I noticed that Mason Foster is among those that got his head shaved. I seem to remember him having dreads, albeit short ones. Either way, commendable thing these guys did. You guys should check out both videos.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
@tampabaybucfan
Yeah thats what I’m talking about. And I like you questions too.
Hahaha, I get into arguments and disagreements with fellow BUCS fans all the time about a lot of these thing. Sometimes rival fans!!
It’s just nice to be well read about a lot of these topics.
I’d also like to know some about the future plans about this QB we drafted, though I’m sure there were tons of stuff on that folowing draft day. You got any thoughs about it TB BF?
June 10th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
@DOUGismyHERO
The word “deserve” is what caught me as off putting.
To be clear though, I do agree with your post. I would love for any of those topics to be covered. I just wouldn’t say we “deserve” them.
@lightningbuc
You endless pursuit of this conspiracy theory is hilarious. Yes, if Schiano had some connection with the Boise head coach I can see him spending an hour or so on a phone call to get info about a potential first round pick. Dom would be stupid not to have him do that. You are just making yourself look like an ass. Several people confirmed they heard those words from Schiano’s mouth. The fact that you believe all these people are lying to cover for Dom is hilarious. But please, continue your search to prove a rookie head coach ran a draft by himself only weeks after being hired.
Also, I recommended a link that may not have been seen otherwise. I wasn’t calling someone out by name for no reason. (Or talking about a conspiracy theory that doesn’t exist.)
June 10th, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Yeah guys it does make a lot of sense that Schiano had a bigger part then most coaches for the draft. He got to witness a lot of these kids first hand, in the intnsity of a game, as a college coach. He was able to see the demanor of how they carried themselves and their intesity level a lot closer then any scout could.
It just makes sense that he would help histeam in grading the draft boards. His experience on the sideline was possibly more helpful then a combine or game tape. Boy, I sure hope he kept a lot of friends within the college system!!!
June 10th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
i remember Schiano saying that he and Dominick were watching tape and how Doug Martin and Lavonte David were jumping off the game tape. But i guess that Schiano was too busy. lol.
June 10th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
@DOUGismyHERO
Yeah, the only problem with that is Schiano himself said he wasn’t very involved in the draft. I can see him extending what knowledge he had of the Virginia duo of Goode and Tandy but not much more than that. If he had a connection with the head coach of Boise as well then I don’t know why he wouldn’t make a phone call there as well. To say he ran the draft though, is nothing short of asinine. The people that think I am saying Schiano had NOTHING to do with the draft are hilarious. I am sure his brain was picked to no end on as many prospects as he could have possible known but run a draft he did NOT.
June 10th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
@West
Hahahaha. Hey I’m Irish man. That just my way. I’m am always gonna come offf abrasively for some people, not changin though.
Anyways, it was pretty cool that you said they can’t make articles appear into thin air. Then a few minutes later they did just that!!!!!!
Very good article on the home page with parts of an interview with the DL coach. I enjoyed reading it and it helped answer my questions about our LINE. I will deffientaly have to check out the site more good articles.
June 10th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Steve, Realist,
Here’s another video you may find of interest. This is the Greg Schiano press conference immediately after Mark Barron was drafted. Schiano talks of the “hours and hours” of tape he had watched of Barron along with the scouts to make sure he was “the right guy”. I know, I’m sure you’re as shocked as I am that he was able to find time to do that while also hiring water boys, a grounds crew, and all the other responsibilities that are far more important than worrying who you’re going to take in the first round for a team that was coming off losing it’s last 10 games the year before.
http://www.buccaneers.com/multimedia/videos/HC_Greg_Schiano_PC_Mark_Barron/6e77c1dd-9704-4450-91ba-47ae04e4157c
June 10th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Yeah well as I understand the way most teams work. It is up to the GM to have the final say for which players play for his team. If the team has no talent the GM is usually the first guy thats accountable.
Of cousre their are a ton of resourses and evaluators the GM has at his disposal. If Dominic were not use use Scianio’s 1st-hand knowledge as one of those tools I would call that foolish. After all, they have to play under Schino’s system. It’s just debatable how big of a tool Schiano was for our GM.
June 10th, 2013 at 3:21 pm
WCBF,
Schiano had say in the 2012 draft process, no doubt. You really think he would just sit back, and not become involved? “But he said”- stop being such a stickler, fact of the matter is that Schiano is doing his thing with Dominick.
You can try to SPIN it however you want, but real fans just want to win it.
Thanks, looking forward to your reply, as always.
June 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
Take a shot at the guy, who knows.
Sometimes taking achance pays off, like getting Antonio Bryant for nuttin. Or, even Galloway, he was thrown in that Keyshawn trade and worked out great.
I imagine just about every team in the league has some knee issues. Nature of the beast.
Not sure you can say Dominik’s assessment of Winslow was a positive. A number two pick given up and we got not much play out of it. And the health staff didnt do Brian Price any favors with that misdiagnosis.
June 10th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
@SteveK
Again, I maintain that Schiano had something to do with the 2013 draft. He just didn’t run it. He didn’t order Dom to draft specific players. I am more than certain he contributed as much as he possibly could in regards to player evaluation. But that just isn’t very much in such a short span of time. No one is spinning anything here. You are just being your usual defensive and stubborn self.
Also, are you insinuating I don’t want to win?
@Eric
Winslow was the leading receiver three seasons in a row for us. He was the only legitimate threat we had. I’m not saying he was great but he was certainly worth the second round draft pick.
Also, Brian Price was injured after he became a Buccaneer. He suffered a rare, horrific, career ending injury that no sports doctor had ever seen before. To blame that on Dom or the training staff is misguided at best. Not to mention it had nothing to do with his knee. (Which is what Dom touts his staff as being the best with.)
June 10th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
@westcoast
When your building a lasting contender through the draft you don’t cough up a number two for a guy who never makes it to contenderhood.
Of course nobody may make it to contenderhood.
A failed trade.
June 10th, 2013 at 5:34 pm
Failed is hardly the right term. While it wasn’t a great success, it certainly wasn’t failed. The guy was young when we traded for him. He led our team in receptions for three seasons. It may have been an “average” or “okay” trade but “failed” insinuates that it was a flop out of the gates or that we got nothing in return for a second round pick and that is just wrong.
June 10th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
@westcoast,
True enough. Failed would be like the Price and Benn selections in 2nd round.
June 10th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
^^That would be correct.
June 10th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
“Winslow was the leading receiver three seasons in a row for us. He was the only legitimate threat we had. I’m not saying he was great but he was certainly worth the second round draft pick.”
Spot on WBCF
June 10th, 2013 at 7:05 pm
I honestly think Benn will resurrect his career somewhat in Philly, I hope so for his sake.. He seems like a good guy.
And Price I truly fee for the guy, what a rough rough life.
Proof that there is always someone out there who has it worse 🙁
June 10th, 2013 at 9:21 pm
The best surgically repaired risk reward guy I can think of is Drew Brees. His shoulder was torn up and FUBAR. The docs fixed it and The Chargers thought he’d never be the same. They went with Riverswimmer and only Miami and N’olins made a play for Brees. Chucky didn’t even give him a sniff and what a fool. If the Bucs would have landed Brees and taken a chance then, he’d have at least another Super Bowl and still be our coach. Brees completely turned that franchise around and still wins with garbage for defense.
Trust your doctors, trust the film and take a calculated risk!!!
June 11th, 2013 at 6:38 am
A low risk and potentially high reward trade and there are still folks who seek out any possible evidence to give it a thumbs down. None of us know how this will eventually unfold; but I would think most fans would initially be hopeful rather than spiteful.
June 11th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
I think the point WCBF is making is that the Joes bust their ass day in and day out to “the best of their ability” to provide us the BEST Bucs coverage they can and honestly the best that’s available..
And to have people come in and (what it came off as) essentially criticize and than proceed to explain to the Joes how to do their job is pretty “trollish”….
Whether it was your intention or not :/