Josh Freeman Haters May Want To Calm Down
June 5th, 2013
There is a segment of Bucs fans who wish Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik would cut ties with starting quarterback Josh Freeman before the sun sets today (you mean there is a sun behind these clouds?).
Tired of his inconsistency, one-hop passes to running backs and streaks of ghastly interceptions, some Bucs fans want the team to simply turn the page on Freeman. And if that means starting a rookie third round pick, so be it, so Freeman’s critics say.
Aside from the glaring obvious, that’s not likely to happen, notes noted NFL analyst Evan Silva from, among other places, RotoWorld.com, so Silva Twittered Tuesday.
@dustinbuescher: What are the chances Mike Glennon is the Bucs starting QB by season’s end?
@evansilva: I’ll say 5-10 percent.
And in Joe’s eyes, that’s only if Freeman is hurt.
Look, is Joe sold that Freeman is the answer as the Bucs franchise quarterback for the next decade? No. Way too many people are hanging their hats on Freeman’s 10-win season in 2010. That’s ancient history in the NFL. His 6-15 mark against teams with a winning record scares the hell of out Joe.
But this doesn’t mean Joe has lost his mind.
Freeman is now entering the second year under a new, complex offense. Wide receivers (Mike Williams), linebackers (Mason Foster), defensive linemen (Gerald McCoy), safeties (Mark Barron), just to name a few positions, note how much smoother things are for them in the second year under the New Schiano Order. They feel they are well-advanced because they already know the system and it should translate into better play.
Joe agrees with them. So why should we agree with them but in the snap of the fingers, dismiss the take for Freeman and not give him the same latitude while playing at the most complex position on a football team?
Could Glennon do better than Freeman? Well, anything is possible, but for every Russell Wilson (third-round pick) Joe can come up with three Colt McCoys (third-round pick) who flamed out in the NFL.
Joe is not a gambling man and doesn’t like those odds.
Look, if Freeman stinks up the joint this year, he won’t get re-upped (or franchised). If he plays well and/or the Bucs make the playoffs, he’ll return.
And as it currently stands, Freeman is the best chance for the Bucs to win in 2013.
There’s no controversy.
June 5th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Agreed. Very little chance Glennon starts any regular season games outside of injury. Not because of Glennon’s potential talent or lack thereof, just because Freeman is the best the Bucs can do at this point. He has the talent to get it done, albeit inconsistently, and he has been in the system for a year. All clear advantages in any “competition” this season with Glennon.
Next year is a whole different ball game though.
June 5th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
i will take that, 5-10 percent to make this team better. Its time to make the playoffs, and for those who hold this team back will be quickly replaced.
Playoffs or Bust in 2013!!!
June 5th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Freeman will be better this year, after setting franchise records last year in the first year with Sully’s offense.The future is bright with Free and with Glennon if Free gets injured.
June 5th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
Thank you, Joe. Finally, but I’m sorry your gonna have to dumb it down even more for the people like @the_buc_realist up top here I’ll help.
FREEMAN da dah IS de da THE da STARTER dum da.
Stop your *itching. There we go now they might get it.
June 5th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
All third round QBs drafted since 1999:
2012:
Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin Seattle Seahawks
Nick Foles QB Arizona Philadelphia Eagles
2011:
Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas New England Patriots
2010:
Colt McCoy QB Texas Cleveland Browns
2008:
Kevin O’Connell QB San Diego State New England Patriots
2007:
Trent Edwards QB Stanford Buffalo Bills
2006:
Charlie Whitehurst QB Clemson San Diego Chargers
Brodie Croyle QB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
2005:
Charlie Frye QB Akron Cleveland Browns
Andrew Walter QB Arizona State Oakland Raiders
David Greene QB Georgia Seattle Seahawks
2004:
Matt Schaub QB Virginia Atlanta Falcons
2003:
Dave Ragone QB Louisville Houston Texans
Chris Simms QB Texas Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2002:
Josh McCown QB Sam Houston State Arizona Cardinals
2000:
Giovanni Carmazzi QB Hofstra San Francisco 49ers
Chris Redman QB Louisville Baltimore Ravens
1999:
Brock Huard QB Washington Seattle Seahawks
3 of the last 18 quarterbacks drafted in the third round over the last fourteen years are starting today. Is that REALLY the gamble any of you are willing to make this year? 1 in 6 make it. (And I would argue the jury is still out on Wilson and especially Foles. If neither of them pan out then you are looking at 1 in 18.)
June 5th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Info pulled from here:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position
June 5th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
History has nothing to do with Mike Glennon or Josh Freeman. In case you havent noticed we havent won a whole lot of games with Freeman. He is replaceable and we dont need a Russell Wilson to do it.
We just need a competent and consistent QB. Thats not to say Glennon is the answer but it doesnt take much to get us the average 6 wins that Freeman has been getting us.
Quite simply, up until this point in his career, he has not been very good.
June 5th, 2013 at 4:49 pm
agreed
June 5th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Maybe you should just run down to the store and grab us one? Maybe they have a sale going on since they seem to be practically giving them away because of so much overstock.
I am sorry but Freeman is not as easy to replace as you make it seem. Who would you prefer the Bucs have drafted/brought in that could have us in a better position to win? (Sans Peyton Manning because he was never going to come here. Titans offered way more and he still chose Denver.)
I like how guys talk about the quarterback and wins and losses as if the quarterback is the only one that controls the outcomes of games. I understand the quarterback has a greater impact than every other player on a team but that doesn’t mean he does it by himself. Guess what, the Patriots manage to lose games once in a while. Are those games all Tom Brady’s fault? Did they miss the Super Bowl last year because of Tom Brady? Couldn’t be the defense, right? That would just be making “excuses”.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:06 pm
@WestCoastBucsFan
Shh…stop sounding so sensible. It’s not taken too kindly around this blog.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:08 pm
blah blah blah keep coming up with excuses for your boy. It’s old and boring. Fact is Freeman is the QB who has led us to 24 wins in 4 years. Average of 6 a year. Thats not special. Thats bad. Thats replaceable. And no I never said it was easy to find a competent QB. That is you and the homers trying to twist words around to make your man crush feel better.
But as I said Freeman IS replaceable. Glennon may not be the answer but Freeman is not the answer either as of right now.
Stop mentioning other QBs. We are talking about Freeman. Can you homers ever stay on point? It’s almost laughable how you have to twist words, compare him to other QBs and throw stats as if that means anything to Freeman and the reality that he is a bad QB at this point of his career.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
the_buc_realist Says:
June 5th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
i will take that, 5-10 percent to make this team better. Its time to make the playoffs, and for those who hold this team back will be quickly replaced.
(face palm)
Do you want to see the percentage Free has to make this team better or you like to go with the lower odds??? As a GUESSTIMATE Freeman has an 80 – 85% chance. Some realist you are.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
WCBF,
There is no denying that a great QB (Tom Brady) heightens his team’s chances to win the game. The QB position, more than ever, is most pivotal position on the team.
You mean to tell me Ted Larsen can ever impact the game as much as a QB?
The Defense is a major part of a team’s success, but a QB is single handed the most crucial position in the game, and rightfully it receives the most scrutiny.
Just like in baseball, good pitching beats good hitting, whereas a pitcher can control the game much more than any other position.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Freeman is our gatekeeper to the playoffs, as he goes we go.
We have all seen flashes of excellence from Freeman, and we need him to be more consistent.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:17 pm
If Freeman was as good as you homers seem to think he is, he wouldnt be in a contract year.
Glennon has more of a chance of starting this year than many of you want to think or realize. It may be a small chance but its much more than 5 to 10%. If Free falls into another one of his famous funks early in the season… things will get interesting.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
I swear it just must be only the real idiots get on here and post( I guess I’m not saying much for myself) but guys whether you like it or not he is the guy this year is only about the size of his contact not whether he gets one or not . I also have times when I want to throw something at my tv when Free flat misses open wrs but the fact that he might is the best qb that the bucs have had since Doug Williams means he is staying and as far as the record against winning teams the entire time he has been abuc the team around him was either young or just not good. Is our that hard to remember that our past qbs that had the benefit of playing with one of the best defenses of all time didn’t look as good as free does when he is in a groove on their best day. Think about the fact that this guy hasn’t known what it is like not to have to do everything yet, his entire ngl career he has known that if he doesn’t play well then he will lose that’s tough on a guy after awhile and he starts to press and when that happens bad things happen. This year our D will be special and Free just had to know that if he just does his job the rest of the team will do theirs. That will help him tremendously. Sorry haters but tuis is the guy for 5-6 more years and the reason they drafted glennon is do they can pay a backup qb 4yrs for 2 million rather than a vet which requires around 2-3 mil a year. The bucs can’t get rid of free because if he went somewhere else and loved up to his elite potential and they were the staff that let him get away they would never work again. I’m seeing a11 win season and a first round playoff win this year and a legit SB run next year. GO BUCS AND LETS GO FREE
June 5th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
There are two sides to the football. Freeman was basically asked yo play both last year because our only defense was to out score the opponent. That’s a lot to put on any QB. Many more games were given away by the defense than were lost by Freeman. A consistent D will lead to a consistent Free.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
@steveK. Excellent points although I remember a lady poster making same points couple weeks ago and some smart ass rode her out of town. Freeman has to be better this year or we are fu’d again.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
@Couch Fan
So? After I talk about the whole team sharing responsibility in wins AND losses you go on to say Freeman, “has led us to 24 wins in 4 years.” Does the rest of the team have NO BEARING on the outcomes of any games?
I ask again, WHO? You keep saying that but who? Who replaces him? What are the better options?
Let me ask you this, how do you know Freeman isn’t the best quarterback to ever play the game? How do you know? I will tell you how you know; it is because of . . . wait for it . . . OTHER QUARTERBACKS. The only reason you want him gone is because you have seen OTHER QUARTERBACKS do it better. You can’t judge a quarterback without comparing him to his peers. I mean what are you evaluating then, his personality?
I will ask again, when the Patriots lose, whose fault is it? The Packers? The Saints dropped nine last year, whose fault was that? I REALLY want to know.
June 5th, 2013 at 5:51 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/05/wiretapping-defendants-plead-not-guilty/
read that Joe, it’ll most likely make you upset. You know those guys that you wanted to get the full 5 years and the huge fine ( I still think that’s pathetic on your part to wish that for two young guys for something not even serious ) read it. There off the hook! hahaha
June 5th, 2013 at 5:57 pm
@SteveK
What? Really? Did you even read my post?
(Just in case you missed it:)
I said the team shares responsibility. The QB doesn’t outweigh the rest of the team as a whole. You couldn’t put Tom Brady in Cleveland or Arizona and him find having the same success.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:05 pm
Stop comparing Freeman to a pitcher in baseball. A pitcher is a defensive position. Great argument for why we lost at least 4 of our games last year….the defense sucked in the secondary. The same way the Rays bullpen sucks this year. When Rodney blows a save I don’t hear fans screaming that Longoria should have gotten another RBI. Why is it Freeman’s fault when our defense blows a game? Offensively we scored enough points to win against the Eagles, Redskins, Giants and Falcons. Now that the secondary has improved I expect that we will score enough points to win the majority of our games this year also. No one is going to march the ball down the field in under a minute on this years D. I just don’t see it. Could I be wrong? Sure. Pink Unicorns could jump out of Buc_Realist’s butt and start singing ‘Don’t Worry, Be Happy’ but I doubt it happens…at least the singing part.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
@westcoastbucsfan
These guys are idiots, they’ll be quiet when Freeman leads us to the playoffs this year.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:19 pm
freeman not leading you to the playoffs he is leading you 8and8 or 9 and 7 he sucks
June 5th, 2013 at 6:19 pm
@Couch
So we’re homers because we don’t want to run the best QB we’ve ever had out of town because our defense lost us 4 games last year, so we would have been 11-5 if our D was even halfway decent?? Interesting train of thought, fool.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
@jlynch
Lol learn some grammar and MAYBE I’ll take you more seriously loser
June 5th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
walter hows my grammar??STFU
June 5th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
Okay Couch Fan, name that quarterback. Freeman’s been cut. Are you ready to get on the Glennon bandwagon? Are you going to start him day one? Risky? Real Risky? How about we draft the best quarterback in the draft. Hmm. Draft’s over. How about we sign a free agent then? Pickings a bit slim? Okay, how about we trade for one. Name him. Who might be available that is measurably better than Freeman? It’s easy to be a critic, but pointing out a better path takes more than just whining.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:44 pm
The should have grabbed Alex Smith when he was availible
June 5th, 2013 at 6:46 pm
News flash, that’s why the term is “Playoff Team”…And lets be honest here guys this is the 1st “Playoff caliber TeaM!” Freeman has been apart of since he’s been here.
Don’t get me wrong, as much as I like Freeman I’d be lying if i said he doesn’t piss me off sometimes (I hate when he doesn’t scramble); however unlike some of the Freeman bashers on this blog I’m smart enough to see the bigger picture. When you have a young QB learning a new offense every year there will be some inconsistencies.
Bottom line, it’s easy for us to sit on the couch with a beer in our hand on Sunday and say what Freeman woulda/coulda,shoulda did but until you’ve played the position, at that level, on a subpar team, you really don’t know; you just think you do…
June 5th, 2013 at 6:48 pm
@jlynch
Alex Smith?? He couldn’t even get the job done with the Niners, what the hell would he do here?? Score less points than Freeman, that’s what. Use your brain.
June 5th, 2013 at 6:51 pm
Idiots are Never Quiet! I’m flabberghasted at how Freeman is fingered as the responsible party for the Buccaneers win total. Tim Tebow took the Broncos into the Playoffs and was jettisoned quickly for Peyton Manning. Yet Manning. Didn’t get the Broncos any further than Tebow did however everybody blamed Raheem Moore Not Peyton Manning.
It is a 53 man roster. The Bucs have had 2 Overhauls since Chucky left and Josh was not responsible for either of them.
Joshua Freeman is the Quarterback for the Bucs now and for the forseeable future GET USE TO IT. Glennon is just lucky the powers that be in Tampa were so short sighted to waste their second selection in the draft on him instead of a good starting outside linebacker
June 5th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
@Braheem
Playoff caliber teams need quality back up quarterbacks. Orlovsky is talented enough to sink this ship by himself. A third round pick is a small price to pay for a viable contingency plan if Freeman goes down for even a few plays. The selection was the exact opposite of short sighted. It was a long term plan. Look at the Patriots. They drafted Mallet so they didn’t have to pay a veteran backup with no upside. Before that they drafted Matt Cassel. It is MUCH cheaper and cap effective to draft a quarterback after the first round to be a backup.
June 5th, 2013 at 7:03 pm
All Freeman and the Bucs offense has to do is look at when Big Ben was a rookie or Joe Flacco or when Jim Harbaugh turned around Alex Smith!!! Run ,Run ,Run the ball and play action pass about 15 times and throw a few screen plays in between that!! I remember Big Ben would be like 10/15 if Freeman doesn’t have to throw the ball 30 time a game we will be fine!! Now that we have a Def!!! And Secondary!!!
June 5th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
Can’t disagree.
June 5th, 2013 at 7:25 pm
You idiots are so used to mediocrity it’s pathetic. Freeman will never be consistently good.
And Joe (whichever Joe wrote this), learn how to use a dictionary. You obviously don’t know what “controversy” means.
June 5th, 2013 at 7:34 pm
Can any of you read?
Im just wondering because every one of you went off on a tangent about things I’ve never said.
@WCBF Freeman is 24 average of 6 wins a year. Yes the bad defense plays a big part in that. Doesn’t excuse the fact Josh didnt play very well so far in his career. You make excuses for him, I dont.
@Walter I’m not running anyone out of town. Unlike you and the other homers, I’m simply saying Freeman is not the end all be all on this team and can be out played and have his job took by someone, even Glennon, if Freeman has another 2, 3, 4 game funk.
@TrueBlue None of what you said matters cuz Freeman isn’t cut nor would the Bucs be stupid enough to cut him right now.
I’ve never denied that Freeman is the best chance we have right now. That is obvious. Not sure why you homers keep repeating yourself. No amount of repetitious positive thinking is going to change the fact Freeman isnt very good as of this moment.
I’m also not foolish enough to think Freeman can’t be replaced. He’s simply not that good. None of you seen Glennon take a single snap in the NFL much less for the Bucs so to say that he absolutely can NOT beat out Freeman for a job is straight out silly. Again thats not me sayin he will, but he absolutely can.
As I said before and I’ll say it again. It wont take much for someone to come in here and get on average 6 wins a season which is what Josh has done. SOO hard to replace that lemme tell ya….
Oh and 1 last thing. @WBCF
You have no idea what I want or why i want it. Stop trying to tell me what I think. Your doing a lousy job thinking on your own so dont try to do it for the both of us. Fact is I dont want Freeman gone, I’m not a Freeman hater, I just dont believe in him anymore. As I said before I hope he proves me wrong and if he does… so be it, ill gladly admit I was wrong.
June 5th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Illuminati,
IMO you are the idiot…nuff said…
June 5th, 2013 at 7:38 pm
Illuminati
Hhhmmm. Let Joe go to Merriam-Webster, but for the fun of it, shall we?
So, who’s the wordsmith here, huh?
Perhaps you are the one who needs to brush up on his (?) vocabulary?
June 5th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
@Couch Fan
Define “replaceable” for me, would you? Better yet, let me help you:
Replaceable
re·place
[ri-pleys]
verb (used with object), re·placed, re·plac·ing.
to provide a substitute or equivalent in the place of.
Again, For Freeman to be “replaceable” there HAS to be someone to replace him with. Who is your replacement or “equivalent”? If you don’t have one then he is NOT replaceable at the moment.
The problem with your comments is that Freeman has NOT averaged 6 wins a season. The Bucs have. Freeman has played exactly zero games by himself.
I have to disagree with you there. Freeman actually has played fairly well for most of his career. He had a good season in 2010 and a good season in 2012. Not elite by any stretch of the term, but as good as can be expected with the talent around him.
Nobody is saying Glennon can’t succeed. Statistics simply show it is incredibly unlikely.
You blame Freeman for ALL of the losses and “excuse” the defense but when I ask you who is responsible for the Saints 7-9 season you simply dismiss it as a “tangent”.
Okay.
June 5th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
@Couch
Good luck with that, Glennon has no shot. We ALL know that. Freeman would have to play EXTREMELY poorly, even worse than the end of last year. 3-4 bad games will not lose Freeman his job, especially when he has 7-8 game stretches of pure excellence, like he did in the middle of last year. Some of the posters on here make it seem like Freeman had a bad season last year, as if he didn’t toss 16tds to only 3 ints in 7 games. They only want to focus on the bad, while never acknowledging that the only reason we were even in playoff position last year was because of Freeman and the offense. But yeah, lets all hope that some 3rd round rookie quarterback comes out of nowhere and tears it up for us this year. I don’t know about you, but I’m not naive enough to hand the reigns over to Glennon. In my eyes, if he’s starting at QB for us, our season is already over.
June 5th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
I dismiss it because comparing one player to another is impossible unless the two play in the exact same situation. Thats why I stick to JUST Freeman. (but just to put it out there Brees is on a level Freeman will never get to. Freeman did not play nearly as good as Brees did last year.)
Once again you say things that I have never said. Show me where I put ALL the blame on Freeman. In fact I have said and continue to say repeatedly, the defense is the biggest problem. But its not the only problem. A consistant QB last year gets us into the playoffs. Freeman was a problem. Whether you want to admit it or not. You see the tangent there? I do.
24 wins gets blamed on The QB the Coach and the GM. Have you ever heard of someone saying emmitt smith career record is blah blah or a TE? OR a WR?
No the QB gets the blame. So Far Josh has 24 career wins he’s contributed to. Thats not good no matter how you want to look at it.
June 5th, 2013 at 8:05 pm
@Walter
Can you read? Seriously… where did i say just had the reigns over? You a fool if you think Freeman has a leash to go on a 3 game slide this year. ESPECIALLY if Glennon is doing well. Schiano and Dom both know a losing year puts both there jobs in jeopardy. You are naive if you think Freeman’s job is safe as you say for 3 or 4 games Lol. Thats actually laughable.
June 5th, 2013 at 8:17 pm
@Couch
Lol they will not pull Freeman for 3 or 4 bad games, not everyone hates him as much as you do. XD
Freeman will be the starter, barring injury, for the whole 2013 season. I will gladly put money on that bet, there’s no way Dominick and Schiano sacrifice this year to give Glennon playing time. It just won’t happen, especially because Dominick probably won’t be here next year if we don’t make the playoffs. Seriously, use some common sense. Schiano and Dominick have already gone on record stating that Freeman is the starter, and that Glennon would only see the field if needed.
June 5th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
I pray we get more good Josh than bad Josh this year.
June 5th, 2013 at 9:00 pm
Really? Impossible to compare players that play the same position, in the same league, at the same time, going against roughly the same opponents?
No, it is not. People do it everyday.
Sure seems to me like you are saying something other than the Brees (You know, the quarterback) caused the Saints to be 7-9. Could that possible mean that *GASP* the DEFENSE affected the win total MORE than the quarterback?
You say the defense is responsible and then you say Freeman has 24 wins in 4 years, which is it? Clearly the defense was so horrible in New Orleans that the Brees couldn’t overcome it. Now if Brees can’t overcome the 32nd ranked defense. Then how the hell do expect a supposedly far less talented quarterback to do better with the 28th ranked defense? (And a pass defense that nearly set a 93 year record of futility. You know, the part of the defense that holds the lead once the quarterback gets it?)
If 7-9 doesn’t define Brees then it doesn’t define Freeman either, I’m sorry.
Still waiting on that replacement . . .
June 5th, 2013 at 9:17 pm
@westcoastbucsfan
Lol he’s never going to answer that, there’s nothing he can say. He’s wrong.
June 5th, 2013 at 9:52 pm
For the the record, not only did Freeman tie the season record of the Saints and Brees, in heads up competition he outscored the Falcons and Matt Ryan 45-41. Just goes to prove you can make anything you want out of stats. Who cares what his average wins per season is? Last season was a big improvement over 2011. That is the current trajectory – up. Team’s personnel and coaches change and the Bucs got a big upgrade the last two years on both counts.
June 5th, 2013 at 10:04 pm
@ Walter. Ur wrong bro , Free is the answer, hey just maybe our 29th ranked defense will catch up to our Freeman led 9 th ranked offense ! What a thought huh ?
June 5th, 2013 at 10:19 pm
^^Your comment is misplaced. He is referring to the last line of my post.^^
June 5th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Which was directed at Couch Fan. Who’s disappearance is nothing short of convenient.
June 5th, 2013 at 10:22 pm
@raphael
Hey, I’m a Freeman fan lol
June 5th, 2013 at 11:05 pm
There are ALWAYS excuses for Freeman’s mediocre play, including from you, Joe.
June 5th, 2013 at 11:24 pm
sorta like the cars song… your all i got tonight. he is okay but he just dosent have the pure instincts to be a franchise qb week in and week out. glennon is a smarter less mobile version of Josh
June 5th, 2013 at 11:31 pm
Mean:
Then don’t sweat. If, as you believe, Freeman continues to be a subpar quarterback, then he will not be on the roster this time next year.
You may be hard-pressed to find an article where Joe suggested Freeman’s name should be spoken in the same breath as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or for that matter, Matty Ice.
June 6th, 2013 at 12:12 am
@ west coast , Walter …..my bad ..couch fan. Gtfih
June 6th, 2013 at 12:14 am
@ john… And I’m sure you have seen glennon play in the pro’s before….
In fact I am sure you have seen glennon play a lot…..dumba$$. !
June 6th, 2013 at 12:20 am
Look, we can break down Freeman all day long. We can compare stats of 3rd round guys and the chances of them being successful to get an idea of the odds that Glennon can play or succeed all we want. It’s true only 3 of 18 3rd round picks start today (although Brees [2nd] and Brady[6th] dictate we shouldn’t only look at 3rd rounders for odds of success). We can also look at 1st rounders and their odds of success. From 2000-2012, 36 QBs were selected in the first round. Only 16 of them have a winning record (and that includes Tim Tebow). 18 were primary starters for 4 years or more, yet 6 have/had losing records (including Freeman). Carson Palmer being the longest tenured losing 1st round QB with 8 years as primary starter and a 54-67 record. Joey Harrington finished 6 primary starting years with a 26-50 record (Josh has 24 wins in 4 years).
So, not all 1st round picks (in fact, most) don’t pan out. Phillip Rivers has never played in a Super Bowl, or Jamarcus Russell. Michael Vick, Chad Pennington, David Carr. Freeman isn’t “better” than anyone because of his draft position, and Glennon isn’t “bad” because of his.
In that same 13 year span (2000-2012) of drafts, 166 TOTAL QBs were drafted (so a little over 20% were 1st round). Of the 166, 58 never started a game in the NFL (offense or defense, in case of position change). All of those 58 were drafted in rounds 2 through 7. So, that’s about 1/3 that never see the field. It doesn’t take a mathematician to know that 1/3 is more than 1/5, so QBs drafted after round 1 are much more likely to never see the field than ALL the QBs combined drafted in the first round. Every QB drafted in the first round started, at least a few games, even Tebow.
So what, you say. That doesn’t translate anything to success, only whether they play or start (which is part of the equation… will Glennon start?). So, how about success? Do QBs drafted after the 1st round have success? Sure, some do. We all know about Brady and Brees, that’s 2 of 166. Matt Schaub is 44-38 and David Garrard is 39-37. Both winning records, but neither is gonna “lead the team to a world championship”. Kyle Orton is 35-34, but didn’t play 2006 when the Bears lost to the Colts in the SB, that was Grossman (1st round pick). Vince Young is 31-19, um, never mind. The only time you find QBs with success drafted after round 1 is a QB drafted in the past couple years. Why is that? Very little body of work to judge by. Kaepernick only has 7 regular season starts, but a 5-2 record. Wilson has one season of success at 11-5, but Orton was 10-5 his rookie year. Even Matt Cassell was the next “Tom Brady” when he was forced to start for the Patriots, but KC found out he was really a 7th round draft pick that isn’t very good (and I recall Bucs Fans SCREAMING that we had to get that guy).
So, what’s this all mean? Absolutely nothing, because we don’t know what Glennon is or can do (although we do have history and statistics that show it’s probably not wise to hold your breath for him to succeed). We also don’t know if Freeman could have a year like Alex Smith did 2 years ago (and beginning of last year) when he finally showed his 1st round ability. What I know is that Bucs fans always seem to think the grass is always greener, just watch out what you step in that is making that grass so green…
June 6th, 2013 at 12:36 am
@couch I could understand being unhappy with the inconsistency but to say Freeman just hasn’t played good is absolutely ridiculous the guy has shown flashes, no not flashes but stretches long stretches of elite play his career numbers are actually not too bad for the situations he has been in a good amount of tds over pics and a 58% completion rate. Itvtook eli 7yrs to get to equivalent percentages. I might be wrong and maybe Freeman never gets rid of his inconsistencies and but he will be the bucs qb through all of it he will get an extension and play it out whether or not he ever becomes Elite because guys with his talent are few and far between. So I hope you get used to him because 5 is here for the long haul.
June 6th, 2013 at 12:55 am
One thing we all can agree on. Is that with the addition’s on defence. Freeman has no excuses this year. If his record against team’s over .500 is 6-15. 4 of those win’s coming within the division. I don’t even count div win’s because anything can happen within your div. So what would be his record outside the div against above .500 …2-11? I have no confidence in Freeman against say Pitts,Balt,New England,Green Bay,Seattle,San Fran,all the NFC east and the Texan’s. Below .500 team’s he’s money. Know this thou,week 1 vs Jet’s if Free hook’s up with Cromarte a couple of times. And the Jet’s win. He’ll be on the hotseat. But thou it all the fact is, at his best he can do it. He need’s to have some 70% comp games and only one or two. 35-50% stinker’s.
June 6th, 2013 at 2:20 am
@BamBamBuc
Nice post.
16 of 36 in the first round don’t even have a winning record?! Not even half of first round quarterbacks pan out, yet the one that we have, that has showed some elite ability, is “replaceable”?
June 6th, 2013 at 6:11 am
And on and on it goes. The only way to at least slow down the on-line tiffs over whether or not # 5 is good enough to succeed here is for the TEAM to win more games than it loses. But even then, fans will always blame the QB for the losses in spite of “reality.” But, this isn’t baseball where the pitchers are the key participants in the duel. None of us who believe that Freeman has shown evidence that he has what it takes to lead our team are foolish enough to put him in the elite class. But nor do we think he’s the bum some want to call him. We should all be at least willing to allow this season to unfold, as I believe the realist’s favorite GM is doing, before we put this talented team in the hands of a rookie or take a chance on the FA QB’s who have had minimal success. I don’t want to go back to the days when we were always were looking for that “savior”. But don’t you critics think it’s somewhat realistic to think that the improvement of the defensive side and the return of our guard tandem alone will put the team and Freeman in a better position to win?
June 6th, 2013 at 6:33 am
Freeman has 2013 to get his sh!t together and become consistent. If Freeman plays great (playoffs), then we keep him. If Freeman looks like the 34th most accurate passer (again), then we would be better served to start Glennon to see if he can do better than 6 wins per year.
Stay out of the gun range Josh, put down the FIFA soccer video game, and save the photo shoot with a baby tiger and high heels for AFTER you take this team to the super bowl.
Freeman needs to learn to audible, no headset NO MORE PROBLEMS.
June 6th, 2013 at 8:52 am
Will E.J. Manuel start? Yes. Will Geno Smith start? Yes. Does Schiano think Glennon is lesser than either of these 2? No. Schiano had Glennon as the best QB in the draft. Will Glennon start opening day? Highly unlikely. Will he start at all this year if Freeman is as inconsistent as he has been the last 4 years? Likely. You clowns that think Schiano gave his 2nd draft pick for what he considers the best QB in this year’s draft with the plans to keep him on the bench are crazed. There is a valid reason why Freeman’s contract was not extended.
June 6th, 2013 at 9:16 am
Yeah, and I’m sure the Banks drafting was a clear signal to Revis that he BETTER get healthy and he BETTER play as good as he did pre-injury or we’ve drafted your replacement! Actually, it was probably more directed at Wright who did make mistakes. Funny thing is, Wright actually had his contract restructured and was retained for next year when the team had the opportunity to let him walk. If they’re gonna sign and play a guy that’s been suspended and had troubles, I understand drafting his replacement. Freeman has had no off-field issues (even his modelling career did not affect his ability to play games) and has set team records for his position. I think they’ll let him play it out and see what happens. Glennon is his backup, not his replacement.
June 6th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
As Far as I know nobody is stating Glennon will start opening day. Again it’s the twisting of words you fan boys are sooooo good at. If you really think Freeman has the leash to go on anything more than a 2 game slide this year. You are sadly mistaken and in for a lot of crying. If that happens Glennon will be your starting QB until he shows he’s not good enough. Anything over a 2 game slide from Freeman this year and his Tampa career is over with. Book it. Remember I said that.
THATS A Guarantee.
June 6th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
I think you people enjoy engaging Realist in debates. There really is no challenge to winning this one with him.
If Glennon has a 5%-10% chance of being the answer, that means Freeman has a 90%-95% chance of being the answer.
Argument won.
June 6th, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Remember, Mike Glennon still has to beat out Dan-o to even be named the backup QB (#2 QB). I don’t even see that happening this year.
June 6th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
LMAO Argument is not won because you arent even sticking to the topic.
Lmao, more twisting of words. Did I say Glennon is the answer? No. I did not.
Listen I’ll type real slow for you Fan Boys.
I am not saying Glennon will start or is the answer. Show me where I have said that?
All I have said is IF Freeman comes out like he has the last 4 years and stinks it up like usual… Glennon will get his chance.
You all are making it out like I am saying its Freeman vs Glennon. Does Glennon scare you that much?
I swear the fan boys have reading comprehension problems. Freeman is the starter…. NOBODY is denying that. But if he comes out once more and has another bad slide. He is gone. Glennon will get his chance, whether he is the answer or not is to be determined. But Freeman will be gone and we will be drafting a QB high next year.
Is that simple enough for you? or will you once again try to twist my words into something it is not.
June 6th, 2013 at 4:54 pm
76 buc ok so you won’t count the wins against div opponents but you will count the losses and he has beaten greenbay already just saying.
June 6th, 2013 at 5:01 pm
@ couch your an idiot a 2 game slide and he gets the hook huh? This shows that you don’t leave mom’s basement to often, Dom is the the man in charge and free is his guy even if schiano wants to pull him he won’t be allowed to do it. Why do you think everyone schiano says something that gets clowns like you fired up he retracts it the next day I’ll let you know why because he gets called upstairs and told to shut his face and fix it. If Free fails it will have to be monumental, afterall the guy who is going to be his back up didn’t even play well in college Glennon was inconsistent as heck at NC state and never loved up to his physical abilities
June 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
Couch…I think you need to RE-READ my post. Last I checked you are not Realist…unless you are the same person…which is pretty lame.
You are now imagining personal attacks. You can get help for that, you know 😉
June 6th, 2013 at 9:04 pm
Couch: Pretty simple. I’m fine with that. I disagree that he’ll get yanked for 2 bad games, even if they’re “in a row”. Truth is some people are talking up Glennon as if he IS the answer. Problem with that is that if the Bucs agree, we WON’T be drafting a QB high next year (because we already have the “answer”) and we’ll miss out on some extremely good prospects. Personally, I’d like Freeman to succeed (as that means the Bucs are winning). If he doesn’t succeed, I’d rather see them draft a QB high next year (meaning Glennon still isn’t the answer). Either way, I don’t want to see Glennon starting ever for the Bucs unless he is the next Drew Brees or Tom Brady. I think the odds are better for a 1st rounder next year.