Has John Abraham Spooked Mark Dominik?
June 17th, 2013
This time of the year to escape the seemingly incessant non-basketball association and golf talk on radio — man, the MSM would make Josef Goebbels smile the way it tries to indoctrinate the masses, led by the four-letter outfit of course, with the repetitive drumbeat of a once proud sport — Joe has a comfortable sanctuary to turn to: SiriusXM NFL Radio.
This afternoon, the co-hosts of “Movin’ the Chains,” Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan, discussed what the Bucs need to do to make a playoff run.
Kirwan is hesitant to anoint the Bucs a playoff contender.
Yet.
In Kirwan’s eyes, there are two positions on defense the Bucs need to address before he can take the notion of a Bucs postseason berth seriously: a third-down pass rusher and a SAM linebacker.
(Gasp! Cue the “SAM linebacker is not important” chorus, which was non-existent when Quincy Black played.)
Kirwan suggested that the Bucs acquire two players on defense to fill these needs. One player Kirwan has all but been begging Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik to sign in recent months is former Dixie Chicks defensive end John Abraham. After again professing how much Abraham could help the Bucs, Kirwan did some research during a commercial break that may have solved the riddle as to why Dominik (or other teams for that matter) has not pursued Abraham.
Per Kirwan, in the last eight games the Bucs and Dixie Chicks faced each other, spanning four seasons, Abraham has a grand total of one sack.
This was surprising to Joe, as well, and it led Kirwan to wonder aloud.
“Usually, teams love to pick [players] from teams in their own division,” Kirwan said. “They obviously have Abraham on their own tapes. I wonder if they noticed something?”
Of course, there are but few people who could answer this question and they all have offices at One Buc Palace.
Maybe Dominik, who generally doesn’t like to toss cash at aging free agents after getting burned (badly) in his rookie year as general manager, noticed how the Bucs were able to take Abraham out of games the past four years and, thus, doesn’t value his skillset?
June 17th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Not only has Abraham failed to have much of an impact against the Bucs, but there are 31 other GM’s in the league who happen to agree with Dominik that Abraham doesn’t have much left worth considering at this point. Obviously there will always be fans who believe the grass is greener on the other side, but in reality the Bucs DE position is set.
June 17th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
I find that stat funny since he played against Damar Dotson, Jeremy Trueblood, and Donald Penn and could only get one sack. Donald Penn I can understand, but Dotson and Trueblood is a red flag.
June 17th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
Trueblood turned into a complete turnstile against the pass the past couple of seasons.
June 17th, 2013 at 4:53 pm
Maybe Joe, that the Pop-star just doesn’t value pass rush from the D-line position. That should be the only reason why we have seen such poor play since the boy-genius gm took over. In fact, worst in the league for the last 4 seasons at D-line.
June 17th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
As Abraham rushes from the weak side/ QBs blindside 85%of the time, it sounds like an endorsement of the Mighty Donald Penn- who has crushed a lot of great Sackmasters.
Yeah, gotta worry about D-Line. Both Starting DEs are coming back from serious leg injuries, and have never started a full season. Have a rookie Nosetackle, and a bunch of journeymen providing Depth.
Guess they are counting heavily on Spence, Gholston and Means
Seems a lil dangerous to me!
June 17th, 2013 at 5:10 pm
Pure “draft pick ego” alone will keep Dominik from spending even moderate bucks in free agency for a DE.
His draft picks of Gholston & Means are reason enough for him to obstain.
“Draft pick ego” has kept Myron on board so far, however I think we will finally say bye bye to the third round pick.
June 17th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Well said, Joe! What is up w the SAM talk? Quincy struggled early because Os were more scared of him than Geno Hayes and they schemed around him a bit. (Though why he came off the field on 3rd is beyond me. He was a better cover guy than Foster and Geno)
As for Abraham…where is he going to fit? Kick off Means? No way. Teo’Neshiam? Young, versatile and valuable. Abraham is a neat toy, but he’s well past it and would take up a roster spot needed for a special teams guy. There’s just no room for a 1 year ‘?’.
June 17th, 2013 at 5:31 pm
If by ‘draft ego’ you mean looking out for the future instead of bringing in an aging vet who only got 1 sack against the Bucs in 8 games, then yes…Dom has draft ego. Also, I didn’t realize that Teo’Neshiam was a draft pick, or Levingston, or Gibson, or Derik Landri, etc. It’s not like Dom isn’t bringing people in, just not the ones YOU want.
June 17th, 2013 at 5:33 pm
While I do not want any part of Abraham on our roster for he is old, don’t fool yourself into thinking Penn always shut Abraham down. Sacks aren’t the only barometer of how well a DE plays.
June 17th, 2013 at 5:33 pm
Yes, I realize Gibson is a DT not a DE. I just want to illustrate that Dom is trying to provide depth but we’re not going to go out and overpay for a bunch of aging vets who think they should still command top dollar.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
I wouldn’t doubt it if Dominick looked into Abraham and was not will to give him a starting position. Which is wise.
Remember, Abraham would have to be willing to take a backup role…and by all reports he is not.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Joe,
I like this article coming from nfl.com. The_Bucs_”Reailist” and all of the other negative nancies should peruse this article.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:17 pm
The Bucs are not going to make any moves until they see what our new guys can do with pads on. It’s not like we have to make any desperate moves. Yet.
I know they are high on Daniel TON and think they can coach up Means and Gholston.
I’m in the minority thinking Spence, Gibson and Landri can get the job done inside.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
@ Bobby Says
By “draft ego” I mean Dominik already selected two DEs in this year’s draft. For him to bring in another would’nt make any sense. “draft ego” is sometimes described as making the most out of your investment. Myron Lewis is a good example. If he hadn’t been a draft pick…he would have never lasted this long. We will see what happens with Goode, Tandy & perhaps Smith from last year.
Maybe “draft ego” doesn’t exist, but I think its human nature to want to prove yourself right.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:23 pm
2.0:
Joe highlighted that link last week.
June 17th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
“Cue the “SAM linebacker is not important”
EVERY position and every starter is important. I dont care if we are talking about the freakin punter, if your a starter your important.
June 17th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
Sorry for being behind the times, will go comment in that article’s comment section.
June 17th, 2013 at 7:13 pm
on a side note, im LOVIN all the attention we are getting from the national media. we are on nfl total access again. the rest of the league is finally starting to sit up and take notice.
June 17th, 2013 at 7:20 pm
ouch… not lovin what there saying, but at least they know we exist.
June 17th, 2013 at 7:24 pm
Im back..Wassup Joe whos hacking your site…its glitching!
Security issues
Don P is the reason he has no sacks on us..So all you Penn haters take that..
June 17th, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Once we get halfway through training camp and preseason games, Schiano and Dominik will have a better grasp on where they stand with pass rush talent. I’m positive if there is any indication that we lack in pass rush Dom will be bringing guys in. I think now that if we’ve really got our secondary under control, you could probably rush the lesser than elite pass rushers and get a desired result with coverage sacks. I don’t think we need Abraham, but we’ll see how it pans out in preseason.
June 17th, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Joe,
Bucs Nation put up a rebuttal saying that, in fact, the SAM ‘backer position is not important in the Bucs defense (they specifically mention JBF):
http://www.bucsnation.com/2013/6/17/4438434/strongside-linebacker-is-not-important-in-the-buccaneers-defense
June 17th, 2013 at 8:46 pm
^To clarify, they specifically they say it’s the least important position on defense. Not that it’s unimportant.
June 17th, 2013 at 8:57 pm
FL:
Joe knows all about it and Sander and Joe went round and round on Twitter. Anyone that thinks a SAM linebacker is not important, just watch what happens when opposing offenses expose the scrub playing that position play after play, game after game, week after week.
People wanted to see Quincy Black gone so badly, they don’t care who the hell plays there which is absurd beyond reason.
June 17th, 2013 at 8:58 pm
We have cap room it would be good insurance move to sign abraham,even if he never cracked the lineup,id rather have him that tue backups to de’s comming off injury
June 17th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
Andrew:
Thank you.
June 17th, 2013 at 9:02 pm
To be fair Dallas, Joe and Sander came to a gentlemen’s agreement that while a SAM linebacker in Sheridan’s defense may not be a priority because a SAM linebacker only logs slightly more than half of the snaps, it’s still behooves a coach to have a competent player at SAM.
The “not important” phrase is grossly misleading. It suggests it doesn’t matter the competency of the player at SAM.
Joe just finds it interesting that people hated Quincy Black so much (though, with decent coaching last year played good), they don’t care if a high school linebacker replaced him, which is the height of idiocy.
June 17th, 2013 at 9:06 pm
I say we will tally close to 50 sacks this year, half assisted by the secondary.
June 17th, 2013 at 9:11 pm
My druthers:
3. DE Israel Idonije — The rare defensive end who will get to quarterbacks and stonewall running backs. According to profootballfocus.com, Idonije was a more effective player than former Chicago Bears teammate Julius Peppers in 2012. Idonije is 32, but he doesn’t have a ton of hard miles on his body since he didn’t become a regular starter until 2010. Since moving into the starting lineup, he’s averaged nearly 50 tackles and seven sacks. Throw in his penchant for blocking kicks, and you have quite a bargain. Best fit: Buccaneers
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/06/17/best-remaining-free-agents-john-abraham/2431527/
June 17th, 2013 at 9:28 pm
Joe,
I’m in agreement with your stance on the issue. Saying that 50% of the defensive snaps are unimportant, or less important than other positions, is an overstatement. A team can’t value every single position at the financial level of a Darelle Revis, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an important position nonetheless.
I don’t follow anyone on Twitter so I was unaware that this debate was happening.
June 17th, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Joe,
You fed into the Quincy Black “hate train” in 2011. You were pretty honest about his tremendously awful play.
He was playing well last year, and I wish he was still on the team. Best of luck to the guy.
Quincy Black from 2011 back was an inconsistent player.
June 17th, 2013 at 9:58 pm
In all honesty, we’re loaded at DE…we’ll probably keep 5 or 6 on the roster going into the season…I really expect our improved secondary to play a big part in improving our pass rush…
There were plenty times last year where all our pass-rushers needed was that “1 extra second” to get to the QB…In 2013 the “No Fly Zone” should give them that extra second….
June 17th, 2013 at 10:16 pm
Almost every team plays defense out of their sub packages probably close to half of their snaps. I’d guess that in a 4-3 the SAM backer is on the field for maybe 5% of those, and that’s mainly if he has any blitzing skills.
Is the SAM backer unimportant? I wouldn’t completely say that, but it’s close. Obviously in your base defense you want a guy or guys that aren’t going to suck in there. Am I going to lose any sleep not knowing who our starting SAM is week to week? No.
As far as the Buccaneers go, I would rather just be in sub packages the majority of our defensive snaps and roll our safeties into the box more.
Quick, somebody name me a big name SAM linebacker in a base 4-3 defense………….(crickets chirping)?
As far as John Abraham goes….31 other teams feel the same way Dominik does. It’s silly for Kirwan to even wonder aloud why teams aren’t signing him.
June 17th, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Almost every team plays defense out of their sub packages probably close to half of their snaps. I’d guess that in a 4-3 the SAM backer is on the field for maybe 5% of those, and that’s mainly if he has any blitzing skills.
Is the SAM backer unimportant? I wouldn’t completely say that, but it’s close. Obviously in your base defense you want a guy or guys that aren’t going to suck in there. Am I going to lose any sleep not knowing who our starting SAM is week to week? No.
As far as the Buccaneers go, I would rather just be in sub packages the majority of our defensive snaps and roll our safeties into the box more.
Quick, somebody name me a big name SAM linebacker in a base 4-3 defense………….(crickets chirping)?
As far as John Abraham goes….31 other teams feel the same way Dominik does. It’s silly for Kirwan to even wonder aloud why teams aren’t signing him
June 17th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
SteveK:
He was horrible. HO-rri-ble! No one — no one! — suggested he played well.
Then last year he got decent coaching and look what happened. That’s water under the bridge now. He’s gone.
June 17th, 2013 at 10:28 pm
Mike J
I said that the other day as soon as he became a free agent. Plus he has some experience at the tilt nose. a twofer DE/DT
June 17th, 2013 at 10:39 pm
Abraham was non-existent because Penn has his number, that was the only reason jajaja
“(Gasp! Cue the “SAM linebacker is not important” chorus, which was non-existent when Quincy Black played.)”
The SAM is important and Watson will do just fine,
Black played the position well last season but Watson is ready and he is an exceptional athlete. It’s going to be nice to have a SAM with his kind of speed.
June 17th, 2013 at 11:22 pm
I think Joe was onto something when he posed the ? … “Why is it that John Abraham is still a free agent?” and not just because of the Bucs. Damaged? ..even to old for league veteran minimum. OR …or is Abraham wanting too much guaranteed? There has to be reasons, even with Atlanta when they could have possibly gotten a home town price, but instead, they chose to move on without him.
Nobody wants to touch him ….meh …another one for the broken heap pile.
Along with T.O. Plax, OCHOCINCO, and RMoss.
June 17th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
You guys are too funny. No one said the SAM is not important. Every SAM under Dungy and Gruden played a key role. They just were not dominant or highly paid. They were serviceable and they did their “job.”!!!!! Thats all we need. The knock on Q. Black was not his play, but that he was getting paid far too much for his production. Stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill JOE!!
And yes, Penn is the reason Abraham sucks against the bucs. Abraham seems to do alright against other teams which means he could help the bucs. Tell me any great pass rusher that has dominated penn? Gave up only four sacks all last year. And thats with all the so called “weight” problems.”
June 17th, 2013 at 11:54 pm
Tim:
Joe can’t count how many times he has read in recent months — sometimes to defend Adam Hayward if you can imagine — that the SAM linebacker is not important.
Then today, Joe gets blasted by a guy from Belgium no less arguing that a SAM linebacker is not important. 🙁
As for Black, he played pretty good last year once he got coached up (which sort of reinforces the cash Dominik paid him) but in previous years he was terrible beyond words and this is not an exaggeration nor hyperbole. He was pathetic, no matter if he was paid a dime to play.
June 18th, 2013 at 4:48 am
I have to agree that Black was not worth keeping all those years. Even though he had good coaching and played better last season he still wasn’t that great. The problem has been lack of attention to the position when it comes to replacing him.
At this point we have to hope Watson does better this year because I doubt we’ll see anyone else brought in that is better. I still think one of our draft picks could fill the role but the Bucs, thus far, seem resistant to the possibility.
On Abraham I have always wanted him in a Bucs uniform and would LOVE to have him spend at least a year as a Buc. I don’t think it will happen because I don’t think he should be a starter and I doubt he is ready to accept a backup role. If he ever will be.
I think this is a case where Dominick haters will whine that Dom should have signed Abraham, even though it takes two parties to do a deal.
I said I don’t think Abraham should start because I think at his age he should be conserved and rotated in throughout games.
June 18th, 2013 at 5:02 am
Mind if I add something else to consider? This defense is not the sa.e that Tony or Monty installed. This is the Schiano defense. It might still be a 4-3 (actually probably more of a mix of several) but we don’t really know the value of the SAM i this defense, since the Bucs had to scheme for a weak secondary last year.
This year we should learn more…but the fact that the position hasn’t been addressed offers some insight.
June 18th, 2013 at 5:10 am
Bit of a side note, but can somebody explain why JOE hates ESPN so much please?
June 18th, 2013 at 6:46 am
Lack of depth at DL will hurt the Bucs toward the end of the season. I remember when Monte Kiffin rotated 3 DLinemen at a time. Not many teams could do that then or today. I will pull for the Bucs, but have my concerns.
June 18th, 2013 at 8:47 am
@ Joe (and anyone else sharing his view of the SAM),
Can we move past the hyperbole of people saying the “SAM is unimportant” and understand that what they say/mean is “SAM is not as important as other positions on the D”, there is a huge difference.
You seem to take the stance that those of us who feel the SAM is not as important as other positions, feel that we can take the UFA Rookie was a 3rd string LB at Sisters of the Holy Cross Division III team, and plug him in as starter, and that’s not the case at all. The SAM LB, in the base package of this defense, will only be asked to hold his lane assignments in the run game, and probably be given the smallest zone or cover the FB/2TE in the pass game. These are important tasks in the scheme, however there are a lot more players out there (even on our roster) that can fill those responsibilities than there are players that can handle the WILL or MIKE LBs in this scheme.
Also, you said re: Black
“Then last year he got decent coaching and look what happened.”
Then on a different post said:
“he played pretty good last year once he got coached up (which sort of reinforces the cash Dominik paid him)”
So he got “decent” coaching and played “pretty good”. For what the Bucs were paying him, he should be at least “very good”, making several splash plays throughout the season. I believe the reason for this is that the scheme just didn’t call for him (that position) to make too many splash plays (the other option is he just didn’t have the talent to play at a “very good” level in the NFL).
This re-enforces the idea that the SAM LB is not as important as other position on this Defense. Please don’t take that to mean I think the Bucs would be just fine going 10-on-11.
June 18th, 2013 at 11:34 am
James Pearls Says:
“Bit of a side note, but can somebody explain why JOE hates ESPN so much please?”
They’re not the NFL network.
June 18th, 2013 at 8:38 pm
Buc-n-Junkie, yep.
June 19th, 2013 at 5:46 am
The only concern about our young defensive ends is that they are well……young. John Abraham has been a great player; but he’s clearly on the downside of his career and may be looking for one last payday that not one of the 32 teams is willing to give him. There is a lot of time between now and the J…E…T…S game to determine if Abraham, or anyone else on the street, can help.