Josh Freeman Playing For Contract, Not Job
May 30th, 2013
Joe sort of sides with popular sports radio personality Adam Schein when he says there may be no quarterback in the NFL who has more pressure on his shoulders than Josh Freeman.
Entering the final year of his contract with a rookie third-round pick standing behind him eager to take snaps, it’s almost like the Bucs drafted Mike Glennon as a safety net. If Freeman has a 2011-like season, he could be playing elsewhere.
This is nonsense to Pete O’Brien of USA Today. He’s of the belief that Freeman’s job is safe and he will get another contract from the Bucs. What Freeman is playing for, O’Brien believes, is not a job, but a payday.
The real pressure on Freeman is not to fend off rookie Mike Glennon, who was drafted in the third round, but to prove to Schiano and the Bucs he is worthy of a new, very expensive contract after the season.
Freeman isn’t shying away from the pressure or competition.
“That’s the way it works on any team. You want to have the best, most talented team you can possibly have,” Freeman said. “They feel like, and it’s obviously true, that Mike is a very talented player. You want the best possible option behind you.”
Joe has written before that the notion of Glennon somehow leading the Bucs to the playoffs this season is patently absurd. The Bucs’ best chance for playing meaningful games in January clearly rests with Freeman.
Joe knows that Schiano, contrary to rumors, likes Freeman and Freeman seems to like Schiano. Of course, everyone on a football team is in love with each other so long as the team wins, just ask Chucky and Meshawn.
And the best way for the Bucs to win is with Freeman. In 2013.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Freeman HAS to pan out for Dominik’s sake. If Freeman becomes a viable franchise QB, it removes alot of the stigma of Dominik’s subpar draft history. That’s why they are sticking with him for longer than usual and putting up with his maddening decision-making.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Patently absurd getting my team to the playoffs as a rookie? Hmmph. Signed, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck and Collin Kapernic.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:38 pm
@biff barker,
What’s absured is you thinking that Glennon is even close to any of those three QB’s.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Wrong.
It is well documented that Raheem (You know, the DB coach for the Redskins) had a strong hand in the selection of Freeman. Nobody knows this better than the guys writing Dom’s paychecks. Freeman only “needs” to have a good season for himself. Both for a job in 2014 as well as a payday.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
@ biff…Freeman was 10-6 his 1st year lets see what those QB’s do in the 2nd yr. I don’t think they will do as well..
can’t wait to see Freeman and the leagues 9th ranked offense after another with the same OC.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
@biff baker,
I also forgt to add that Kapernic was not a rookie. It was his second year. He sat for a season and a half.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
@ Raphael
Good point!
I honestly never thought about that. Freeman went 10-6 in his first year as a starter and Kaepernick went 11-4-1.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Westcoast,
Hell Kaepernick didn’t even start until halfway through the season. The team had a winning record when he took over.
May 30th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
@Vern4499
Even better point!
Also, I think they might play some defense in San Francisco and Seattle. Just a little. 🙂
May 30th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
West coast,
Very true. But I know I saw Josh miss a lot of tackles last year. And he couldn’t come close to sacking the QB.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Look…..49ers & Seahawks both have DEFENSES! Duh!!!
My only concern with Freeman is that his “Agent” (Probably not his Dad anymore in this situation) gets a written agreement that Josh will not be franchised and Freeman Plays Lights out and Walks Out the Door!
Freeman is Already the best QB in franchise History and jumps ship at age 25!
ALL YOU FREEMAN HATERS NEED TO SHAKE YOURSELF…and Snap Out of it!
May 30th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
@Vern4499
And hammer meets nail!
Josh really needs to improve is pass coverage technique. Not to mention his pass rushing moves. He does that one swim move and is pushed to the ground every time. Like Sapp says, “Save the swim move for the beach!”
But seriously, a healthy GMC, Bowers, and Clayborn along with the secondary additions should make for a dramatic difference on the defensive side of the ball (keyword: should) allowing us to see what Freeman is really made of.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
West coast,
The Freeman pick is on Dominick, he has the say in it all.
After all, you credit Dominick for making ALL of the 2012 draft selections, why not give the guy credit for drafting Freeman and Myron Lewis in2009 with his first 2 selections?
Yeah, Dom gets the credit for 24-40 just as much as Raheem got the “credit”.
Raheem wins Dom 10 games in 2010, only to get a PUNTER IN FREE AGENCY. Please explain why Dom is not at fault for faliure to bring in quality free agents?
May 30th, 2013 at 2:15 pm
You just can’t get over this, can you? No matter how much evidence says otherwise (including Joe himself). If you are just going to ignore obvious, proven facts then I have nothing to say to you.
(By the way, Myron Lewis is definitely Dom’s fault. I have never attempted to say otherwise.)
May 30th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Josh playing out his contract also means Josh can TAKE CONTROL. He play however he wants including, Yes changing plays, running, etc. As long as he moves the ball and doesn’t turn the ball over he can ignore sideline instructions…….What are they gonna do? Bench him?
They want Josh to “Show Them”? Josh should do exactly that! SHOW THE ENTIRE NFL. Then wait for the Highest Bidder (No Tampa Discount….Show him the money NOW, or a whole bunch more Later)
YES…..I’m A FREEMAN Supporter…Big-Time
May 30th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
@Braheem
I have to disagree with you there. I support Freeman as well but there is no way in hell Schiano will let Freeman freelance and “ignore sideline instructions”. They will CERTAINLY bench him if he doesn’t listen, regardless of his performance.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
@stevek,
Do you know for sure that he was allowed to bring in top free agents? Did the Glaziers allow him to?
May 30th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
Only a complete dumbass of a rookie general manager wouldn’t listen to a coach that had a strong history with a potential first round draft pick at a position the rookie general manger and coach were all but ordered to select (i.e., Raheem and Josh Freeman).
Absolutely no one on the Bucs staff — and likely no one in the NFL — had more knowledge about Freeman than Morris did.
If you are suggesting Raheem didn’t influence Dominik’s decision — which Dominik, Morris and even Bryan Glazer has spoken about — then you need an intervention.
The difference between Dominik and Raheem/Dominik and Schiano in their respective first drafts is Raheem had a clear history with Freeman. Schiano had zero — repeat: ZEE-roe — history with Mark Barron, Doug Martin or Lavonte David.
The only guys Schiano had any history with was the West Virginia duo and Leonard Johnson.
Even Schiano has stated he didn’t have that much influence in last year’s draft because he didn’t have the amount of time to study college players as the guys on the Bucs’ staff had and largely because of the late date of his hire and also because he was studying his own players on his roster.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
Oh I agree, Freeman will get a contract OFFER one way or the other. The problem is it most likely wouldn’t be to his liking especially if he doesnt play well this season. No way in heck we give this guy anything long-term after this season unless he seriously lights it up and even then I doubt it. He will most likely be franchised if he does really well. I think teams around the league are wary of creating a Sanchezian like situation with inconsistent QB’s.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
That was awesome Joe, thank you.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Freeman will be here. I’ve said that all along. The only question is, for how much?
May 30th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
From a 2009 Post Draft Interview with Mark Dominik on Pewter Report
PR: Was selecting a quarterback in the first round something that the Glazers felt strongly about doing?
MD: “I would say that it is fair, but I think it was Raheem and I saying this is the direction we would really like to go. Obviously they are excited about Josh”
Of course Raheem had input, but the alleged “rock star” is the GM, he could have vetoed it if he thought it wasn’t a good pick. In this same article, Dominik talks about all of the scouting he, himself, did, even going to a K-State game in 2008 to see Freeman. Stop the nonsense that your “rock star” had nothing to do with this obvious over reach.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
Just waiting for preseason so we can see what this Glennon kid has. He just may be the real deal.
May 30th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Free has put us in a very tough position. No matter what we do with him, we will be taking huge risks. Even if he plays outstanding this season, there will still be consistency questions with him since he hasn’t pieced together 2 good years. If we give a guy like that anything long-term we are risking locking up an inconsistent player for a lot of money and a lot of years. Not great.
If we let him go we could very well be letting a good QB that could win us games in the future go. Not good.
If we franchise him and he plays well again then his price will go even further up. Not good.
Really tough and a really dangerous position Dom and Co. are in with this kid. He’s put them in a position to where they have to pretty much guess and hope they get it right because if they don’t, it will likely end in disaster.
May 30th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Joe and West Coast,
I was making a point to West Coast, about saying “Dominick is 100% to credit for the 2012 draft”.
Dominick gets credit for a 10-6 record in 2010, why not be credited with drafting Josh Freeman.
Again, only a “complete dumba$$” would give Dominick a pass for poor prior draft picks. Obviously, Dominick has learned from his prior drafting and Free Agency mistakes.
May 30th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Talk about a lost cause. I don’t know why you keep lumping other picks in with Freeman. Freeman is the only selection being talked about, not Myron Lewis or any other pick. JUST FREEMAN.
By the way lightningbuc, nobody said Dom had nothing to do with the pick, just that he was drafted largely on the advice of Raheem.
May 30th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
What kind of GM would allow a first time head coach at any level, who is a defensive coach, not a QB coach, to commandeer his first move as a General Manager?
How is that a positive thing whatsoever? If I spent my entire life working to become a GM, there’s no way my trademark, franchise first pick would come from anyone other than myself.
If I were Dominik, I would never admit that, unless you are looking for a fall guy. That’s why the Glennon pick is genius. “Freeman? No way, I had no say in him. I drafted the other guy”.
And as I said before, if Freeman ever turns into an All-pro, I will be waiting to see all the credit go to Raheem, and zero to Dominik. I have a suspicion it will be kudos to Dominik, somehow…
Dominik comes out clean either way, despite the reality of it. Ludicrous.
May 30th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
We’ve seen the best we’re ever going to see out of Freeman. After 5 years, I don’t think he’s just going to “turn it on.” You either get it or you don’t.
My plan is let him play, franchise him for next year and give Glennon another year to develop OR go steal another QB from another team in FA or a TRADE. This draft-and-pray nonsense is pissing me off.
May 30th, 2013 at 3:49 pm
That last line Joe, that sentiment makes me wonder every time. Everyone seems to say Free is our best shot to win but looking at his record if thats true, then we have some serious issues. He has 2 winning seasons in 7 years of college and pros. He isn’t known for winning. Can he be? Sure, but there is no evidence of that.
May 30th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
@ Vern
My mistake on Kapernick. But I may add that the defense was not throwing pics at a record pace last year. It was our fourth year QB who finished last in the NFL with completions under pressure.
Regarding Glennon, neither of us has seen him take one NFL snap. I did not suggest he is as good as anyone from last years QB upstart. Thanks for twisting the facts.
@ braheem
Judging by you screen name, your mancrush on Freeman comes as little surprise. Your opinion is exactly that of Buccaneer hater extroadinare and fans favorite d-bag, Shaun King! Deep original thoughts there Chief! Good on ya brah!
I didn’t draft Glennon nor withhold a long term contract from the franchise QB. The guys who sign his paycheck did.
As a former Freeman supporter, I truly believe, as does much of the NFL, that he just can’t put a complete season together.
Despite my fears, I do hope his 5th year is a charm, we make the playoffs and he earns a contract.
Bucs first!
May 30th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
I dunno, if Shaun King (one of three Bucs QBs to lead Tampa Bay to the NFC Championship game, as a rookie no less … jeeesh) can get to the playoffs with the Mike Shula offense ….. maybe, just maybe Glennon, if he has a decent defense can scare a play-off game (if like King he lets the original starting QB get most of the wins). Crazy, huh
May 30th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
@Oil Derrick Brooks
No one “commandeered” anything. In his first year as a GM he happened to take some strong advice from a guy that spent an entire year with a prospect at a position of DIRE NEED. You keep generalizing this into allowing a head coach to “commandeer his first move as a General Manager? “. This isn’t your everyday first GM/ first coach scenario. Raheem had extensive, first hand knowledge of Freeman and the rookie GM listened to him.
What is so hard to understand about that?
@Adam
Freeman has been in the league four seasons and started three. Not five.
May 30th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
You really should go into politics. Stop spinning it. “He happened to take some strong advice”…hahaha
You paint a rosy picture. In reality, The general manager, not anyone else, is in charge of all draft picks. In his first draft ever, he allowed a first time head coach to influence his pick.
This isn’t a case of an experienced NFL guy, ala Mike Shanahan, who knows offense and personnel. This is Raheem Morris. How many years of experience did Raheem have with personnel? With offense? With quarterbacks? Just because he was a coach on the same college team,.for what? an ENTIRE WHOLE YEAR? doesn’t mean he should be having a say in any draft, let alone the GM’s first ever draft, and franchise QB.
Didn’t Dom spend many years learning personnel? Why would he allow someone not competent in the area whatsoever, to have such influence? That’s ridiculous.
Either you’re responsible or you are not. If he allowed a defensive backs coach to influence such a huge pick, that’s embarrassing.
And, didn’t you ask me to stop directing comments to you? I did not. Yet, here we are………
May 30th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
Just because you didn’t include my name in the post doesn’t mean it wasn’t directed at me.
Raheem wasn’t a water boy. Nobody knew what Raheem’s “competence” for player evaluation was. He was a DB coach under Mike Tomlin for a long time and was the defensive coordinator at K-State. (Not to mention, how many years under the great Monte Kiffin?) By the way, you should look at the Bucs pass defense for the year Raheem left. Then what it was before he left and after he came back. Raheem had enough experience and the one-of-a-kind situation where he personally knew a first round prospect for, YES, AN ENTIRE YEAR. Is that not a long time to spend with one player? Do you have to be with someone for multiple years before you can given accurate evaluation?
Do you really think Shanahan would not take any input from a guy that spent an entire year with his potential first round pick? (Stupid comparison by the way.) That is just asinine to ignore input from a person that potentially has information that is not available anywhere else.
If I am a first year GM and my HEAD coach (Not “db coach”) spent an entire year with a first round prospect at a position of MAJOR NEED I am going to take his advice, all day every day, on that one particular player. How can you not?
May 30th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
If I am a first year GM and my HEAD coach (Not “db coach”) spent an entire year with a first round prospect at a position of MAJOR NEED I am going to take his advice, all day every day, on that one particular player. How can you not?
———————————————————————–
Exactly. That is all that really matters. Raheem’s past means nothing. At that time he was the Head Coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Dom HAD to at least listen and take some advice. Now having said that, ultimately the pick falls on Dom as he WAS/IS the GM.
May 30th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
While “technically” it is the GM’s call to make, the people that make the hire/fire decisions know how it really should be weighted. The national media and even us fans will either praise Dom or curse him when either Freeman fails or succeeds. (Except King, he will give loads of credit to Raheem if Freeman succeeds.) I am not arguing that. Only the Glazers can determine how much Freeman should be weighted when evaluating Dom as a GM. I just doubt it is as much as a current draft because Dom was green and Raheem had insider knowledge about Freeman.
Besides that, even if Raheem had zero input on Freeman and never spent that year at K-State then Dom still doesn’t catch as much flak as a draft in 2013. Why? Experience. Do you really think the powers that be at One Buc expect Dom’s first draft ever to be a tremendous success? Do you think they thought there would be literally no “adjustment period” to becoming a GM for the first time in his career?
May 30th, 2013 at 6:55 pm
The answers to your questions are no. I look at each pick individually and put them all together to see the whole (I’m sure the Glazers do the same). But Freeman pick, as well as all the others, eventually does fall on Dom, more so than Rah.
It’s the same way with any GM. I’m positive Dom takes advice from a ton of people with every pick, should they all get credit for the picks or just him? Just because Rah is the one who gave the advice doesnt lessen the damage if he turns out horrible or great.
This is reminding me of the whole “Freeman played horrible because of the…. ” you fill in the blank excuse. We really need to start holding people accountable and stop with the excuses.
May 30th, 2013 at 6:59 pm
There you go. That is what they all do. They turn it in to, ” I look at each pick individually and put them all together to see the whole “. You turn into a broad analysis of all the drafts. This is one pick I am talking about. In the first year of a GMs career. That was heavily influenced by a man that had much more valuable insight of Freeman than Dom ever could have had at the time.
I am not talking about Dom’s draft history. I am talking *ONLY* about the selection of Freeman and his respective ties to Dom’s career.
May 30th, 2013 at 7:23 pm
Your not making much sense or at least not to me. So your saying because it was his first year and Rah actually knew and played with Free for a whole year, that he shouldnt be held accountable for taking his advice and choosing to take Free?
Again We are going to have to agree to disagree. He may of been a rookie GM but that nor the fact he listened to Raheem’s advice on Free doesn’t excuse the pick if Free turns out to be a bust.
Either way, as of right now were still waiting to see what Free can potentially become. Hopefully he will turn out a great season and we wont have to worry about who to place the blame on.
I’m just ready for the dam season to start already!
May 30th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Not that it “excuses” him from responsibility or accountability. Just that it will not cost him his job if Freeman is a bust. That is all I am saying. He takes “less” responsibility for Freeman than he does for every other draft pick he has made. Not zero, just less.
Btw, yes, I want to be done arguing about Dom and Freeman’s “potential”. I too am, “just ready for the dam season to start already!”.
May 30th, 2013 at 8:14 pm
You weren’t the only one commenting in the thread. But, of course, you would assume.
“Nobody knew what Raheem’s “competence” for player evaluation was”
Precisely.
You then name 3 defensive related things on his resume.
He was running the DB meetings, not in the QB room.
And, Shanahan is the coach in my comparison, not the GM (Sundquist, Allen). My point is that it’s much different to take the opinion of a veteran head coach with an offensive pedigree, Rings, and experience with final say with talent. (stupid interpretation, by the way). Raheem coached defensive backs until how many months before that draft? He still coaches defensive backs.
The GM is responsible for his picks. If he let someone with zero experience in offense and drafting NFL QBs help make such a huge pick then that’s his embarrassing legacy.
May 30th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
You people bicker too much.
Just so everyone knows…I don’t feel the need for everyone to agree with me, and I don’t have to be right all the time.
Braheem Says:
“Josh playing out his contract also means Josh can TAKE CONTROL. He play however he wants including, Yes changing plays, running, etc. As long as he moves the ball and doesn’t turn the ball over he can ignore sideline instructions…….What are they gonna do? Bench him?”
You know, this is a very good point, at least to some extent. I think you are half right. It’s a slippery slope. If Freeman refuses to do what he is told and gets bad results…well then yes, I suppose they would bench him and with good reason.
But…I think if he just took a few liberties each game, he would be fine. Since they seem to be against him running, I think he could get away with it a few times per game. This would be a strength for Josh…to show he is the best judge of when to run. And to prove he can do it without getting hurt.
If he does that, he would become more of that Big Ben type again, and it would also throw off defenses, since they are not us to him running anymore.
May 30th, 2013 at 8:45 pm
On the Dominick debate, I have to say no one knows for sure but Dominick, Raheem and the Glazers.
My personal belief is that back when Raheem left to coach in college, the Glazers wanted him back to fix our secondary. To get him back, it was publicized that they made promises of promotion to him. It was assumed it would be to DC.
But no one really knew what they actually offered him. I think they told him they would make him next in line to be Head Coach. Remember, Allen was the GM at the time. When Dominick was made GM, I believe the Glazers told him Reheem would have to be his head coach, but that the decision was on them (which would explain why Dom was not fired with Morris). I also think the other thing they told him was that he must draft the best QB available to the Bucs in the first round that year.
Considering the most successful QB taken after him was a 7th round pick who is no longer in the league, I think Freeman was the right call.
The fact that Morris knew Freeman was likely the icing on the cake. Either way, Dominick would have drafted Freeman…simply because he was the best QB available left on the board.
This is what I believe at least.
May 30th, 2013 at 10:34 pm
Well said BuccaneerBonzai.
May 30th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Not that it makes the Freeman pick the “right” pick in that draft… but what QB from that draft is better than Freeman? Mark Sanchez??? Yeah, right. Matthew Stafford? Ok, so he’s been injured 2 of the 4 years in the league, had one stellar year and then flopped back to 4-12 (yet was voted top 100 in the NFL because someone has to throw to CJ). I don’t see how Stafford is any better. The Lions were 10-6 and made the playoffs his best year. Freeman and the Bucs were 10-5 and didn’t make the playoffs his best year. Same record, different results. But Stafford didn’t do more than Freeman did the year before, he still only got them to 10 wins, circumstance just dictated that 10 was enough for Detroit and not for the Bucs.
Thinking of that, I think people should beware of false hopes in new QBs. Look at Cam Newton, breaking all the rookie records and setting the league on fire…. then falling flat last year. RGIII and Luck lit it up last year, but Griffin is now recovering from major knee surgery, and who knows what happens with Luck this year. We can’t even say that Russell Wilson will dominate the league again, not until it happens. Kaepernick? We’ll see, but he wasn’t a rookie, and only started half a year. What happens when he plays a full season? Sanchez had a great defense get him a couple playoff appearances, making him look like a decent pick, and now he’s in jeopardy of riding the pine in favor of “The Next Great Thing” Geno Smith. Stafford? Bradford? Freeman? Even Ryan? None have won a Super Bowl, only Flacco has done that for a QB drafted since 08.
But hey, let’s jump all over a 3rd round draft choice and claim him as the new starter and savior of the team. Or let’s trade for or draft a guy next year that will take us to the promised land. Because, you see, it’s not just about the QB and whether or not he takes you there, it’s about the team. If the team is right, and things fall in place, the guy you have at QB might just be good enough. We’ve seen guys like Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake DelHomme, and even Trent Dilfer make it to the Super Bowl with the right team under the right circumstances. Trading in a “pretty good” QB for a “who knows” QB is probably not the best way, but feel free to argue that the unknown is better than just fixing what we know.
May 30th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
@Bonzai
Nice thought
May 31st, 2013 at 2:44 am
^^^^^ This guy gets it. ^^^^^^^
May 31st, 2013 at 4:10 am
All Eyes should be on Schiano!
May 31st, 2013 at 8:45 am
Well said, BamBamBuc.