Linebacker Not A Need… Yet
January 18th, 2013
If Quincy Black’s medical status doesn’t change by April, the Bucs may have to reassess linebacker needs for the draft.
One Bucs bright spot to celebrate this past season was the transformation of the rush defense and the front seven.
Just by adding a second round draft pick who appears to be a major NFL star in the making, Lavonte David, Bucs linebackers went from wretched to remarkable all in the span of 16 games.
Even when outside linebacker Quincy Black, who was having his best NFL season by far, went down with a scary upper body nerve injury, the Bucs’ rush defense didn’t fall back much.
So it struck Joe to read a missive in the TBO Bucs Q&A stump for Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik to draft and/or add a linebacker via free agency.
Q: Don’t you think the Bucs need LB help either in free agency or the draft?
– Michael Stanley, Columbus, Miss.
A: I do indeed. I believe they could use a little depth there at least. May even need to start looking for a new SLB. We’re still not sure how Quincy Black is after suffering that neck stinger.
– Woody Cummings
Need help at linebacker? No.
Could the Bucs use help at linebacker? Yes, of course.
The last time Joe heard Bucs coach Greg Schiano speak of Black, there was no assurance that Black would be 100 percent by the time training camp rolls around in roughly six months — yes, six months to training camp. Black is seeking all sorts of feedback from medical specialists across the country, if not beyond borders. The fact the Bucs and Black have even gone international in seeking advice about Black’s injury tells Joe this is a very serious injury Black suffered.
So if Black remains a question mark to return by the time the draft rolls around, then sure, Joe can live with drafting a linebacker, say in the third round.
As the Bucs stand approaching late January, Joe isn’t ready to anoint linebacker as a priority need for the 2013 season.
January 18th, 2013 at 10:16 am
Khaseem Greene!!!!!!!
January 18th, 2013 at 10:30 am
I will continue to talk about things that will never happen at the Bucs if for no other reason but to point out the inflexible strategy of “we only want team captains on our roster”. I personally think that is a noble aspiration, but one that doesn’t necessarily win football games.
The Oakland Raiders GM has said that they are going to release Rolando McClain. I would take him. If Belichick would take Talib, Belichick would take him. Schiano would probably say he is not a “Buccaneer Man”. All I’m gonna say is “better win”!
January 18th, 2013 at 10:44 am
Black has no use of his bicep muscle. He can’t find anyone to do the surgery. He will not play football again IMO
January 18th, 2013 at 10:45 am
Hmmmm. I will wait until after the combine to make any opinions about any players being drafted. Manti Teo draft status is dropping fast and he was supposed to be a top 5 pick a month ago. He was exposed when he played against actual talent and showed he wasn’t as athletic as we assumed. Giving the fact that he was dating a chick for 3 years and never existed makes me wonder about him.
January 18th, 2013 at 10:57 am
BadNewsBucs knows what time it is.
Khaseem Greene is the answer.
This kid is a boss, he reminds me so much of Lavonte David sometimes its scary. His skill set is unmatched by any other 4-3 LB in the draft. Back to Back Big East defensive player of the year and he played under Schiano for 3 years.
People say he’s too small to play Strong Side but he’s only 1 inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Quincy Black.
I wish he would fall to us in the 3rd. I don’t think he will. To actually get the kid we need to use our 2nd or trade up with our 3rd, similar to last year. If Dom and Schiano like him I would be ok with that.
David, Foster, Greene…hell yeah
January 18th, 2013 at 10:58 am
Manti Te’o. LOL
January 18th, 2013 at 11:06 am
We can grab Teo in the 7th round. LOL
January 18th, 2013 at 11:08 am
Black wants a Lotto Payout…I mean, Injury Settlement (we have not heard a peep from that guy…like “I’ll be back” or “can’t wait to get on the field again”…..he’s the complete opposite of Ray Lewis)
January 18th, 2013 at 11:12 am
Black was very badly hurt and may have suffered permanent neurological damage. Pretty classless comment Ian.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:21 am
@Meh – agreed on the classless comment by IGLRDP. Quincy Black may not be a great player – no one said he was – but to question the guy that way when he obviously sustained a serious injury that may affect him the rest of his life just demonstrates a level of callousness that goes beyond just being a bad fan. It was a real jackass statement.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:47 am
Ian, he has thanked buc fans on Twitter for wishing him well. But I guess you wouldn’t care seeing that you’re not really a bucs fan. Btw, he suffered a serious injury you buffoon.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:50 am
People forget sometimes that a man’s health and well being is much more important than his football career. Many prayers to Quincy and I hope that he gets back to being fully functional for the rest of his life.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:57 am
Prayers for Quincy. I really hope they can resolve his medical issues.
Regardless, we need a better Strong side LB. we have two great LBers, need to add the 3rd, to have a good LBer corp. doesn’t need to be a 1st 3 round pick.can get a good SLB in 4th rd. or maybe Najee Goode is ready to step in.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:59 am
He got a Stinger!!!!!!! Then saw $$$$$ Dollar Signs b/c he KNOWS he was in his last year and would NEVER see big money again. Wait and see….trust me
January 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
We only need a LB if they think that Mason Foster isn’t any good…which I don’t believe anyone thinks, at least yet.
The fact of the matter is that the SLB plays about as often as our 4th CB and isn’t an impact player in the 4-3, especially since our base defense is practically a 4-2-5 in today’s NFL.
The Bucs played about 1100 snaps on defense last year. Of those, David was on the field for basically all of them, Foster for about 750, and ALL OTHER LBs combined for around 588. In other words, the majority of the time we only have 2 LBs on the field and often we are in dime and only have ONE on the field.
In the 4-3, in today’s NFL, you only need two quality LBs. I believe we have that, and for years to come.
Corners, corners, corners is what we need. Dominik himself has said “you can never have enough good corners.”
January 18th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
You guys making fun of Te’o need to stop being insensitive and remember an important fact, somewhere a poor, young, unfortunate, and beautiful girl that never existed has died. Please be respectful!
I love that we have so many guys on here on the Khaseem Greene train. The guy is outstanding. He will be at the Senior Bowl this upcoming week and I am confident that after his week he will elevate his draft stock even more. I hope we can land him in round 2, push Foster to the SAM, and become our MIKE. Greene is the kind of rangy, violent, and versatile LB that would make this defense dangerous.
I have to say, I am enamored with numerous Rutgers products this draft season.
LB Greene is very much like David, perahsp even more violent in his collisions and better in coverage.
CB Logan Ryan is extremely stout (nearly 100 tackles) and good in both man and zone coverage.
TE DC Jefferson has great size and athletic ability and is a very good blocker. He was underutilized by Rutgers in the passing game but the potential is there.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
@Ian
My friend Oliver Hoyte got a stinger playing for the Dallas Cowboys and never was the same again. Lost 25% of the strength in his left arm. Played Chamberlain High School in Tampa look it up.
Ian if you never played football, then don’t comment on things you don’t know about. Why would they fly all over getting multiple opinions if it wasn’t serious? Your comment was just idiotic.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
As for Greene being undersized… he is a little bit, but that’s fine. That just means 3-4 teams may shy away from him which means we may have a shot at landing him in round 2. He was recruited and played at S for Rutgers early in his career. This also means he has the required cover skills needed to survive at MIKE in the pass happy NFC South. I’d take a mobile and maneuverable MIKE over a bigger MIKE any day, even if that bigger MIKE was playing inspired by the loss of 10 imaginary girlfriends.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
For example, let’s look at the final game of the year, versus Atlanta.
Barber and Barron played all 63 snaps. David missed one. Our starting corners, Biggers and Johnson, played 55 and 53 snaps, respectively.
Foster, our starting MLB played 44 snaps. Black, our backup FS, played 41 snaps at FS while Ronde moved to the slot. (Yes, as much as Ronde has been ‘playing safety’ all year he’s really been our slot CB for much of it.)
Our starting SLB, Hayward, played only 13 snaps, which is less than our fourth and fifth corners Correr (18) and Gaitor (17).
Yes, you read that right: our starting SLB played less than our FIFTH corner.
So please, please, PLEASE stop any talk of how we need to replace the terrible Quincy Black. We don’t. Hayward will do just fine for the 1/3 of the time he’s on the field. Let’s focus on making Biggers our third CB and finding two actual, real QUALITY CBs to stop the pass.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Fatmosh:
Thanks for crunching and posting the numbers but I don’t feel Foster is even close to being adequate in coverage. I would much rather have Foster in as the run-stopping SAM than the MIKE dropping into coverage. He gets extremely poor drops in coverage and seems to have poor awareness in zone as well.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Khaseem Greene is a great linebacker with good instinct and range, but he is just horrible in pass coverage. That is something he can work one and will get better at with training.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
Can we has a Marinelli?
January 18th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
@Brandon: I don’t disagree that Foster hasn’t been great.
However, I just feel like it’s too early to demote him to SLB in what will basically be a backup role unless we’re getting a stud MLB.
And, I don’t think a stud MLB will help us NEARLY as much as a shutdown corner.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Nice try with your numbers, our 3rd LBs pay at least half the snaps per your stats, thats pretty significant.
Khaseem Greene is a turnover machine. He is always raking at th ball when he doesn’t get to the ball carrier first. He has decent hands and plas pretty good coverage. There is no part of his game where he is a liability or non-effective.
Career Stats: 387 tackles 211 solo 11.5 sacks 6 int 15 pd 12 ff 2 fr(both for td)
January 18th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
@Sneedy16 <——- they fly a guy all over looking for a diagnosis…..1st: because they cant. find anything…..2nd: to protect themselves from a future lawsuit………WAKE UP IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 18th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
I agree with Fatmosh. We still have Hayward, Cutrera, and Goode. Corner is the priority. Maybe take LB in later rounds or walk-ons after draft.
January 18th, 2013 at 1:28 pm
Johnathan Banks – CB from Ole Miss should be sitting for us at #14. This MUST be our first pick if he falls to us (which he should). Dude is a freak athlete and is just what we need to improve the secondary
January 18th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
Ian, your embarrassing yourself. Give it a rest. You have no idea about the nature or severity of Black’s injury, and to assume the worst about him says far more about you than it does about him.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
I’m surprised nobody else noticed it’s Mason Foster in that picture, not Quincy Black. Usually someone jumps on that kind of thing right away.
This is a pretty good draft for mid round LBs. Probably not a lot of star potential, but plenty of guys who should be able to step in and be productive. Only thing is, a lot of them seem to have the dreaded “undersized” label, so it’s hard to project who will be a natural fit as a SAM as opposed to a WILL (which many of them seem to be).
I think there are some pressing needs, CB being the obvious one, and SLB could be filled via free agency.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:07 pm
Marlon:
No. 58 is Quincy Black.
Do a Google image search on Quincy Black and that photo comes up.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:33 pm
If Dee Milliner not available, there’s plenty of corner back prospects in later rounds.
IMO we should be concerned about Free Agency
WE NEED QUALITY DEBT at a few positions. We need guys that are scheme diverse. And that are relatively cheap to sign.
Examples
*Sign DT Desmond Bryant (OAK) to back up Gerald McCoy
*Sign NT Glenn Dorsey – KC
*Sign DE Matt Shaughnessy (OAK) Insurance just in case Michael Bennett asking price is to high. Both have accumulated 15 sacks up to this point in their careers.
Sign ILB/SLB Larry Grant -SF
*Sign CB-Keenan Lewis – PIT
*Resign-E.J. Biggers – TB (cheap )
Would be great to Sign a kid from our own backyard CB-Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie – PHI. But I’m inspecting his asking price to in line with his market value.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
Joe:
I know Quincy wears #58. That doesn’t change the fact that the player in the picture ISN’T wearing #58, it’s #59 aka Mason Foster. Look at the face too, you can tell the difference. Also, Black doesn’t even have tattoos on his right arm, Foster is covered.
You can’t always trust Google image search. For example, I could type “handsome sports columnist” and end up getting a picture of Joe instead 😛
The person who uploaded that picture to their page simply made a mistake.
Btw, I’m not trying to be a pest, just trying to help
January 18th, 2013 at 2:40 pm
Ian,
A modest attempt to help you understand what may happen to an injured player if he is cut or released from a NFL team. This was mandated by the new CBA to protect both player and the team from financial exposure.
If the Bucs choose to release Quincy Black, the Bucs may have to pay an injury settlement which the new CBA limits to 50% of the players salary or 1mil whichever is less in the 1st year and 30% or 500k in the 2nd year. Quincy has 3 years left on his contract and should that route be taken, his own LTD insurances would take over after year 2. The player is protected from a catastrophic loss of income and the team is protected by limiting its liability, ie, no lawsuit.
Please review the link below and if you need further info, I can direct you the specific chapter and article in the CBA.
http://proplayerinsiders.com/nflpa-receives-information-on-players-eligible-for-new-injury-protection-benefit/
January 18th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
IAN you speak as if you actually know what you are talking about. If you actually did maybe you would have a job determining who is faking and who is not. Black was having his bed year by far, so to assume otherwise is just a dumb uneducated opinion.
January 18th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
@Ian
No response is needed for child. Grow up.
January 18th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
@Ian,
You still have no idea what you are talking about. It’s called injury settlement. When a player gets hurt and can no longer perform their duties and player and the team work out a settlement. Suing will not and have not happen unless the player feels he was cast aside unjustly. That is when the NFLPA steps in on the players behalf.
Since Eric Lagrend Greg takes those injuries seriously and will do everything they can to make sure he is taken care of.
January 18th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
@Andrew2 No, actually our 3rd LB doesn’t play more than half the snaps. The numbers should that our SECOND LB plays roughly 2/3 of the snaps. Our third LB plays around 1/3 of the snaps.
In other words, on average, we have 2 LBs on the field, with 3 corners.
And we have 2 starting caliber LBs and, at best, 1 starting caliber corner.
January 18th, 2013 at 4:49 pm
With an upgrade at Quincy’s position we could have one of the best LB corps in the league.
January 18th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Yah, that’s Foster, look at the tats and the 59 was the biggest gimme. Whooooo!
January 18th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
And we just resigned LB Joe Holland on the futures list
January 18th, 2013 at 8:47 pm
@Big Marlon @Joe
I also noticed immediately that was Chief Mason in that foto! He is wearing his West Coast Washington War paint and his skin tone is lighter than Quincy’s. Plus the tattoos. Though his number #59 is very blockish and sometimes looks like an 8. I can see how Joe might miss that detail.
@Ian
Just admit that your comment was cold. Apologize. Admit. Grow. Evolve.
@Everybody
I am very HAPPY to see so many attacks on @Ian!!!
Much respect!!! Now thats what TEACHERMAN is talking about!!!
LOVE for our BROTHER BUCS!!!
FAMILY!!! Feel dat!
January 18th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Draft info:
Forget about taking a corner at #13. Millner will be gone and Banks might be too.
I say that Bennett will get signed away and we will draft another DE to replace him.
The bottom line is…we need to draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE.
We have so many issues, especially depth.
DE/DT/LB/OT/CB/FS
We just need to find a way to get the RIGHT guy.
Maybe we’ll trade back into the first and take Xavier Rhodes, IF hes worth.
We’ll see! I really have NO IDEA what we will do!!
January 19th, 2013 at 10:45 am
@IGL&RDP:
How does it feel to be the village idiot again?
You post: “trust me”. You gotta be out of your mind, kid. Your adolescent, mean-spirited posts are part of what’s worst about this site. Even the blind homerism of some people around here is easier to take than your ignorant, angry drivel. It would be easier to trust a bum.
Maybe you’re NOT a kid, but you sure act like one.