Ranking Josh Freeman
December 3rd, 2012
Joe’s at a bit of a crossroads with Josh Freeman. Joe looks at Freeman’s entire body of work, all 52 starts (23-29), and Joe’s not sure if Freeman can lead the Bucs to the promised land of the playoffs.
The jury is still out on Freeman, and for Joe, these next four games will speak very loud volumes as to the kind of quarterback Freeman is. Can he personally lead his team to victory in key December games? Freeman did that in 2010 (Seattle and New Orleans), and he’ll get four more shots this year after yesterday’s ugly performance.
Joe’s less concerned with the numbers, and more concerned with the leadership, clutch throws, consistency, moving the chains and the “W.”
But at BSPN, they love the numbers. And BSPN’s stats gremlins have their own fancy quarterback rankings, which show Freeman ranked 15th in the league. Matt Ryan is third. Drew Brees is 12th, and Cam Newton is 21st.
Sadly, those numbers sound about right. Freeman’s a solid quarterback with great talent, but he hasn’t yet shown he can consistently be the man Bucs fans need.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Wow Joe. You sound as ridiculous as some of the callers I’ve heard today. If you thought Freeman was the problem yesterday I’m in total shock. I’d expect comments like that from Ian or Shaun but from you.. Whoa. Did you watch the O line? If not go back and watch it and then if you still say its Freeman, ill still be shocked.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:21 pm
How can you base anything about Freeman on the last 3 seasons, one he didn’t play a complete season in, the second he played well in and the third, well, god only knows what happened, I say restart his clock this season and lets see what we have based on a REAL OC and a REAL HC, not on the two near-do-well schmucks we had previous.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Joe, Freeman had about 8 throw slump in the third quarter, and you, i’ve of his biggest supporters, oud ready to run him out of town?
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:22 pm
concerned, wasnt you the same person calling josh a bust in waiting
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Also, factor in that Freeman has, arguably, the best WR tandem in the league and a potential ROY, dynamic RB. Beginning to think Freeman is much closer to his ceiling than we had all hoped. Four years in and we’re seeing the same problems with accuracy, the lack of consistancy, and lack of anticipation. These are all traits, for the most part, you either have or dont have, especially the accuracy and anticipation.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Joe is an ass. YOu are ready to get rid of freeman after him being hit all night, and of those 8 missed throws your boy underwood drop 4 of them. That INT happen because freeman got hit from behind and the ball came out wrong.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:28 pm
three weeks ago you were clamoring for the Bucs to extend his contract as soon as the season ended.
flip flopper.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Freeman definitely has his issues, but there’s no doubt in my mind he can lead us to the playoffs. To say he can’t is ridiculous. In 2010, we had a young, inexperienced team. We were starting two rookie wide receivers and a rookie running back, and yet he was able to put up fantastic numbers for a second year pro, easy schedule or not. Last season, we were a train wreck on defense, and Freeman had to fight back from double digit deficits constantly.
This year, with a solid OC, talented WR group, and stud running back, Freeman has thrived. The first four games were rough, but chalk that up to the learning curve associated with a new offense. Even Peyton Manning needed time to adjust to his new WRs this season. Free had one bad game against the top pass rush in the NFL, one of the top QBs in NFL history, coming off a 6 game win streak, playing at home in a historically tough stadium to play in. Let’s all calm down just a bit.
QBR is still a pretty flawed statistic. Alex Smith has a higher QBR than Brees and Rodgers, and he can’t even get off the bench now.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:33 pm
To all the Freeman homers: STFU.
Freeman is what he is…a mediocre middle-of-the-pack quarterback.
He’s not bad and he’s not great. He’s just okay. Simple as that.
Get over it and open your eyes.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:34 pm
These are Freeman’s numbers this year….
3003 yd’s passing 55.9 completion % 23TD 8INT 92.1 QB RATING
cut the guy some slack, yeah he has had his hiccups this season, but dang those are impressive numbers this season…just sayin
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:41 pm
why erase the comment, don’t get mad cause you don’t like them.
Nobody erased your comment, William. Stop being paranoid. –Joe
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Freeman played very well..all season. Woudl help if he didnt have to score 35 points a game to win. If we had a pass defense, he wouldnt be forced to sling the ball all over the place. Not everyone can have Breese, Manning, rogers and Brady. freeman is a good qb and certainly good enough to take us where we want to go.
SERIOUSLY, does ANYONE think our problem is that our offense isnt scoring enough points?????
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:46 pm
suck rocks flboyindallas, tell the freeman haters to keep hiding you dog humper were no wher to be found the pass 6 games go back to your rabbit hole.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Joe (or Joe’s) has never been a Freeman fan. … @bucfanjeff – This is a lie, and Joe doesn’t tolerate mirepresentations of his commentary. In fact, Joe is a Freeman fan, and is proud to call himself one. But in Joe’s book, that doesn’t mean Joe can’t scrutize his play and his value to the organization. –Joe
Questioning his every step, or seemingly so, and called in a Bust In Waiting when drafted. Every regular visitor on this site should know by now that if Joe(s) doesn’t like it, it’s talked negatively on. The integrity of Joe’s reporting may be above board, but the biased slant is definitely there, always, to some degree. …This is very nice commentary, @bucfanjeff, but it’s calling apple pie a dessert. Anyone reading this site can see that Joe offers biased commentary daily. It’s called opinion. –Joe
It’s definitely arguable that this is the first time in Freeman’s career that he’s had good talent around him and coaches that actually coach. To that point, even behind and OL that is completely decimated by injuries, he’s been able to lead us with miraculous play and we’ve had at least 23 points per game since week 4 and we’re averaging almost 28 points per game.
What has Freeman done to deserve the mis-trust and questioning?
Tell me what Freeman could have done better in losing to the Giants, Redskins, Saints and ATL? We could be sitting at 10-2 if our pass defense would make a play. TEN AND TWO!
The problem here is not Freeman, whom is quartbacking the most prolific offense in Bucs history, the problem lies in our pass defense mostly (and return game).
When you consider all elements since the arrival of Freeman, which you have to to understand the big picture, this is a ridiculous article, Joe.
Ridiculous.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:54 pm
hell ya william I’m with you man.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm
The problem is that great QB’s are extremely rare and there are only a handful in the NFL at any given time, so when you have a chance to get a decent one (Freeman) you might as well stick with him because even the decent ones aren’t that numerous. We could be worse off, stuck with a guy like Sanchez, Cassel, Kolb, etc.
I’m happy with what we have in Freeman, but I’d be lying if I said there’s no way to ever upgrade. If the Bucs ever get the opportunity to get their hands on someone they believe has the chance to be an elite QB they should grab him without thinking twice. That’s highly unlikely to happen, though, so sticking with Freeman is really our only option.
December 3rd, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Ridiculous that you question if he’s “the man the Bucs fans need”.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm
JOE here,
Look ladies, many of you are reading between the lines in this post and pretending things are written that just aren’t here.
You’re welcome to do that, but Joe’s not running Freeman out of town. Joe’s not advocating that the Bucs draft a quarterback in 2013 or trade Freeman.
For those who have trouble with reading comprehension, Joe’s simply beginning to question whether Freeman will perform in the big games. Thankfully, we have plenty of them coming up.
As Buccanay wrote, Freeman has two excellent receivers, a running game, an O-line that many other teams would crave, even at its depleted level, and Freeman has a version of Dallas Clark that is much better and healthier than many imagined. We’ll see what his body of work looks like at the end of the season. Hopefully, it will soothe Bucs fans entering 2013.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm
bucfanjeff:
If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who trashed the nitwits who suggested Dan Orlovsky should be the Bucs starting quarterback.
If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who scolded those harping on Freeman for his early-season struggles, stating Freeman needed time to learn the new offense.
If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who made fun of those who believed the Bucs should draft Geno Smith next spring.
Go ahead, Joe’s waiting for your answer.
Or are you too much of a coward to admit you are wrong?
If you don’t answer, then your real answer in absentia will be that you are gutless fraud, and Joe will brand you as such.
If you are going to cherry-pick past articles, try to do a better job than this.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Yusef posted the numbers, and I have to agree with him that they look pretty damn good. No need to start yelling and cussing at each other though. I am only one win away from winning my annual over under bet with my uncle, and this will be the first time I have won. I always have the over and he has the under, we started after Grudens last year.
William, FLboy actually is always here and is pretty consistent. Not that I agree with him, but he has stated this quite a bit.
Flboy…I disagree, Freeman has overcome allot of adversity since coming into the league. I am happy we are not a dink and dunk team like in years past. This is a fun team to watch win or lose…Also, you have to admit, Freeman is better than Romo. (I know you are a Bucs fan not a Cowboys fan, just sayin)
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Draft Geno and let him hold a clipboard for a year.
Hire Norv Turner when he gets fired. That will give us a consistent offense and better clock management. Let Sullivan go to BC.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:02 pm
I don’t think Joe understands how getting an elite QB is like hitting the lottery because that’s about how likely it is. He seems to believe the Bucs can just go out and upgrade Freeman any time they want. In the real world most teams in the NFL would kill to have a decent QB like Freeman. Under Schiano I just don’t ever see the Bucs picking high enough in the draft to end up with a player like Luck. Just not happening, so let’s focus on how to best utilize and improve what we already have.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm
This is another dumb article from a fair weather reporter. C’mon Joe, really??? Freeman is a good quarterback. It is not his fault that he was under pressure ALL game, Underwood decided to leave his hands in Tampa, and the backup O-line had to go up against one of the best pass rush defenses in the league.
I, personally, think Freeman is a very good player. He is definitely capable of leading this team to a championship.
Not that I am giving up on this years (because I am not), but next year when we get our Oline back we will definately see a huge difference.
Joe, you need to make up your mind on whether you like Freeman or not and stop with the flip flopping.
For all who think that Freeman is trash: Freeman played decently on Sunday against a team that is top ranked in most categories. It was not like he was in the pocket forever, some was wide open, and he missed them by a mile.
They was little to no time in the pocket, little to no separation, and Underwood thought that he could catch the ball with mind powers.
We played a very good team Sunday (Thus them going on a 7 win streak) and, for the most part, avoided getting blown out.
It’s not like Manning was facing the same Defense that Freeman was. If Freeman was facing our secondary he would have went off too.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Freeman was actually pretty good yesterday. What do you expect when he has a whole defensive line in his face and on his back. Most average qbs would have thrown 5 picks and taken a Crap load of sacks. Our ol is beyond injury ridden and our pass defense after the second level flat out sucks. Next year should be much better.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Joe here,
@KansasBuc – See multiple posts above.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:07 pm
@McBuc
Yes, I totally agree that Freeman is a fun QB to watch especially under this new offensive scheme. No doubt. And I have great respect for the guy as a person and player. Seems to be very hard working and a good citizen all around. I’m just tired of homers who can’t take criticism of Freeman because they don’t want to see his faults. He has serious flaws in his game and that’s just a fact. Doesn’t mean I’m a hater, though. I wish Freeman the absolute best and I truly hope he becomes elite someday.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Welcome to Gooberville, where they want your analysis of a quarterback to be stagnant and clouded by a bunch of rah-rah junk. Everybody knew Freeman had to prove himself off last year. Over the past three games he’s thrown two pick-sixes and missed some clear shots for touchdowns. If you’re all ok with staying as the third-best quarterback in the division and middle of the pack around the league, then God bless you.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Have to agree with your accessment. Josh continues to have a progress-regress season. His tendency is to play well in 2 quarters of a game but go through cold spells with multiple 3 and out series, which is hard to swallow with the receivers and run game he has. I don’t see enough 3rd down conversions. I don’t see enough lateral movement in the pocket. His first season he showed great abilities to run for first downs but hasn’t flashed that ability in this or last season. His ability to hit deep passes is is strength but completing less than 60% of throws isn’t even average for a starting NFL QB. If he can lead his team to a win vs. the. Top QBs like Bree’s and Ryan it will make his case strong for the Bucs to go long term contract, otherwise just franchise him.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:15 pm
I dont think anyone is craving the Bucs OL. Certainly not the OL that played yesterday.
Freeman played well with what he had to work with, which was very little time. With the shoddy run blocking and treacherous pass blocking displayed yesterday, no QB could have done better.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:19 pm
It’s the overreactions that are the problem. One bad game and people start making bold statements about the future of the team and whether Freeman can carry us to the playoffs. By the same token, if Freeman plays extremely well, it’s also an overreaction when some fans claim he is on his way to being elite.
Every quarterback has their flaws, especially when you move past the so called “elite” class. Romo, Flacco, Cutler, etc. Difference is, those guys have made plenty of mistakes even on extremely talented teams. Let this team develop before we rush to judgment.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Reminds me of Dilfer with a fro more and more each game. Hope snaps out of it.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Well in the third he had to play against teams like yesturday last year. REAL teams. Any pressure and he’s toast. Totally rattled. We are late in the season now. And no more excuses. Payton is late in the season and completes passes under pressure. His history in college and the NFL match. This is funny as hell. His excuse. He thought he could fit it in the tight space. He didn’t say anything about being hit and making a bad throw. So which is it?? Figure it out . Top teams figure out how to shut down and PRESSURE QBs to do stupid things (like ours should ) and shut down the run (like ours does). Freeman is who we thought he was! He does and will fold under pressure if a defense puts it on him.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:25 pm
@haveaniceday — Aaron Rodgers has more than twice as many sacks than Freeman. That’s not by design. You need to watch more footballl to see just how bad other O-lines are.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:30 pm
@Kennedy – That means nothing. Yesterdays OL was disgusting.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:32 pm
On a side note Free is around 800 yards and 4 touchdowns for BUCS all time season records for QB’s, Joe is not running Free out ouf town, he just wants him to finally prove over the next 4 games thats he’s the REAL DEAL. I as stated earlier I already believe he is and will prove to be an elite/franchise QB over the next 4 games, GO BUCS!!!!!!!
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Well said SaskBuco
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm
@ FL Boy – Gotcha, I see where you are coming from…
@ Joe bashers – Joe has just stated a thought [provoking question in this article, which is why we come to his site. Joe did call Freeman a “bust in waiting” after the draft, but he also wrote about being wrong about Freeman after he started playing. I see Joe a Freeman supporter, but that does not mean he will not question him at times. I agree with Admin Joe, some may want to reread the article.
Bucfan 20 – Speak for yourself. Freeman is having a great year. Even the great P. Manning through an INT yesterday. If we had any of our past QBs on this exact team they would have been destroyed.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Have a Nice Day:
Really? The Bucs gave up one sack yesterday to one of the best pass rushing teams in the NFL.
Far from “disgusting.”
Ever see the Bears try to block? That would blow your mind. Yet that team may win a division.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:39 pm
@bucfan20
No true QB (regardless of whether you think Freeman is one or not) blames his oline for bad plays. In fact, they typically blame themselves (it’s called maturity and responsibility).
Freeman did score twice in that game (Payton had three scores).
Freeman threw a pick (so did Payton). However, Freeman int was a result of excellent pressure by the Broncos. Payton’s pick was a boneheaded throw (he thought he could fit it into a tight space lol)
Freeman and Manning both threw for 242 yards
The difference: THE BRONCOS DEFENSE IS TOP TIER IN ALMOST EVERY CATEGORY!!!
To say that Freeman folds under pressure just reassures me that you know nothing about Freeman.
Remember that game where the Bucs came back to beat the Panthers with about 12 secs left 4th and a excellent pass and catch to Vincent, then converting the two point conversion (on an excellent pass play) and then coming back to beat the Panthers in OT. Yeah, that was Freeman (the one who folds under pressure)
And before you start saying (“that was against the Panthers”). For 1. regardless of the team that is super hard to do, 2. Freeman has been making great come backs throughout his career.
Why don’t you watch a football game instead of catching the highlights on NFL network. Then you might be able to make a valid arguement. smh
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:42 pm
@joe
It is not all about sacks. Pressures are just a good as sacks. They effect the timing in the pocket.
Also, did you see how many holding penalties and illegal use of hands penalties were called??? Yeah, those are just a good as sacks; they back the team up and effect play calling.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:44 pm
I think most of us would agree that there is no perfect QB. Freeman is not quick-twitch and will never move in the pocket or throw with the accuracy of an Aaron Rodgers. I saw Russell Wilson yesterday and I saw Andrew Luck’s come-from-behind victory too. I wouldn’t trade Freeman’s cool and drive under duress that we’ve seen many times in 4th qtr come-from-behinds for any other QB in the league. When you compare Freeman with other QBs, in most instances, what you are observing is not learned behavior, it’s DNA. You give up some – you get some.
Consider too the timeline for maturity. Yesterday was Rodgers 29th birthday. Freeman is the same age as Ryan Tannehill, 24. He will grow, he will get better, but he will never be Rodgers or Wilson and doesn’t need to be to win. We’re about to celebrate a SuperBowl win next week where we won with Brad Johnson. You don’t need to be elite to win in this league. Tonight observe Eli Manning and count how many things you don’t like about his play, then count his SuperBowl rings.
There are lots of things to complain about Freeman’s play, but there are even more things to like about his play. If anyone would care to notice – We have a 3,000 yd QB, A 1,000 yd RB, and a 1,000 yd WR. Not bad and it will get better. Patience!
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:44 pm
noooooo blocking. thats what it boils down to. i remember one of our plays was a just a simple 3 step drop to a receiver running a 5 yard slant and the throw was disrupted because Freeman almost got sacked. that right there is pretty pathetic blocking. you cant blame that game on Freeman.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Oh man… Did ur guys forget that we play in make shift OLs all year?
This is the best Offense that the Bucs ever have period… with Joseph and Nick back next season.. loook out… plus this is Freeman first season with this offense……by the way FLboy in Dallas.. I take Freeman over Romo anyday….
Bucs played against top notch defenseDenver and Manning. They played their heart out in everygame, we should support them not bashin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Let’s not get carried away, Rachel.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:49 pm
@ KansasBuc…One might say Freeman plays best under pressure…and I would agree. I think Bucfan 20 means pressure from a physical stand point more than the game is on the line stand point. I still disagree with him, but hey that’s the way it goes. Just for the record I agree with you that Free can play under emotional or physical pressure. Now, his argument that Free folds when pressured by the pass rush is flawed. Every QB from mannin, Breez, Ryan, to the third string rookie makes mistakes and struggles when they are hit and thrown off rythm.Brady gets pissed off and starts giving people crap, because he throws his game off. Joe writes about it every week. If the Bucs can get pressure on (fill in the name) they have a chance to win…same goes for teams playing the Bucs. This comes down to defense. Manning has the benefit of a great defense.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:50 pm
He is only 24. I know he has been in the league awhile but he is still extremely young for a starting quarterback in this league.
While we may not yet know if he is “elite”. He is definitely head and shoulders above any quarterback walking the streets right now.
Who would you rather have right now?
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:50 pm
The OL is doing the best it can, and its a make shift/patch work OL at best. I credit the backups and in some cases the 3rd string guys for playing their butts off, the broncos DL is a buzz saw, making good OLines look foolish. A tough game in a tough environment against a peaking Bronco team, the BUCS on O and D showed up and played well. As far as comparing other teams OLines and other QBS its apples to oranges, Rodgers holds on to the ball longer than any QB in the NFL, its not all the OL. Not sure why comparisons always need to be made, NO QB can play well being hit or rushed on every play. Sacks aren’t soley on the QB or the Oline, its a combination of both and WR seperation vs DB coverage, so many factors. The team as a unit didn’t play well enough to win, but overall as BUC FANS you have to be estatic as where this team is going and FREEMAN as our QB, still the best QB taken in 2009 draft even over Stafford and hey it could of been Sanchez.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:53 pm
@Joe Yes. It was disgusting. Freeman was under duress the entire game. Especially the second half. 1 sack, 3 QB hits, and countless hurries is disgusting.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Kansasbuc and Macabee are great posts, great insight, perfectly said!!!
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Plus all the penalties on the OL. They played terribly.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:56 pm
I Was over if three ones that said it sounded like Joe was ready to run Freeman out of town after I read this post, I apologize if I misunderstood your position, but let’s say the bucs go 10-6, and miss the payoffs via tiebreaker, that would have far exceeded my expectations for this season. I wouldn’t place the blame on #5, rather the like if career adolescents Aquib Talib, and Eric Wright.
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Let’s not forget how young freeman still is. Comparing him with guys in their prime is unfair. A lot of elite quarterbacks these days are late 20’s or early in their 30’s. Freeman is only 24 and he has shown glimpses of being elite. He’s not a veteran yet but he is improving. Like it or not he , success is a progression it does not just magically happen. Freeman isn’t even close to his ceiling, he ‘s younger than most starters in the league. Freeman and the Bucs have the capability they just haven’t mastered it yet. Only key pieces the team lacks is talent in the secondary and perhaps maybe a pure pass rusher on the d-line. Once the o-line recuperates the Bucs can be elite
December 3rd, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@McBuc
Well said. If a QB has pressure consistently, bad plays will be made. I think Freeman played well Sunday and he does give me hope for this teams future. Once we get our Oline back maybe we can truly see how good Freeman is.
Like Macabee said, Freeman is the same age as some of the rookies who are entering the league.
Give him time he will get us where we want to be!
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@ Joe. Again agree 100% with you. I said it last night in a post the next four games are going to be a terrifc test for this whole team in particular Freeman. I am a Freeman supporter to a fault but it is time for Free to put together a COMPLETE game in these pressure games even if the end result is a tough loss. here it is. Defense has kept us at least competive, Wideouts have made plays, Martin has run well, and the make shift O line has kept it together in the face of adversity. Now is the time for Freeman to put together a COMPLETE effort. and nobody is trying to run anyone out of town and nobody is expecting perfection. The next step is the push to the playoffs. So what the bucs were not suppose to be here. Fact is they are in position to make a playoff push. hopefully, they can get to the next level.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Joe if you thought our o line played well then you know little about football, which makes me question even reading your stuff. the only thing that is saving you is your enthusiasm for the bucs otherwise i would have been gone along time ago.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:03 pm
McBuc
Yes But How many did he almost that should have been have picked off? How many that were but were called back? You are kidding me right??? ANY would have been destroyed?? I can think of 2 Super Bowl winning QBs that would not have been DESTROYED.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:04 pm
@ eddykoko
Let’s not forget that big ben led the Steelers deep into the playoffs his rookie year and it is looking more in more like Luck will do it too. I know it is rare but certainly doable for a third year QB.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:05 pm
@Macabee
I don’t agree with part of your comment for three reasons. 1. Wilson has not earned the placement of being on the same level as Rodgers. Wilson is a rookie (remember Cam Newton). 2. Wilson is not as good as Wilson. He is a ROOKIE. If he goes out and does this again next year then that statement might be okay to make. 3. Freeman and manufactured comeback wins as well. Additionally, Freeman has manufactured comebacks in multiple seasons. I am not about to say that “Freeman will never be on Wilson’s level”; insinuating that Wilson is some elite QB after not even a whole season.
Freeman is a good QB; Didn’t this article state he was ranked 15th in QB rating.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:08 pm
@ Have and the rest of you
This is the NFL, All QBs are going to get hit routinely. An NFL QB has got to accept that and still deliver a good pass. 1 sack given up by basically our 3rd string Line is incredible. You can make all the excuses for Free that you want but bottom line is, right now he’s not good enough. All he can do is throw deep balls well. Everything else he is not good at. Once in a while he can scramble. Now with that being said, I think the Bucs have to give him another year before extending him. And hopefully Sullivan will stay around. If we go through another O-coordinator, Free is in big trouble.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:10 pm
I was not making excuses for Free. I was pointing out how badly the line played.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Name a better QB…..Brad Johnson?….we had a defense that took us there. We had QBs to take us to the playoffs. Was Shaun King better than Freeman? How about Spurrier, Testeverde or anyone else for that matter.
I am willing to admit that the jury may still be out on Freeman. We have the makings of a great team. Lets get some CBs and a couple of pass rushers..
Have patience….after all, we are Buc Fans
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:11 pm
I really believe in Freeman. He will just take a while to dvevelope into that elite QB we all want.
Now we really cannot question whether or not he can win a big game without him being in one? And I consider the playoffs the BIG GAMES. Once the team makes it there this year or next, he will win the BIG GAMES. Till then, we all have to wonder and just marvel at the great season he is having.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:16 pm
The OL allowed one sack but had I believe 5 penalties called on the OL. Those are just as bad as sacks. Had the penalties not been made, in most cases the result would have been a sack anyways. Tack on the 3 QB hits, and countless pressures, and that is a horrible day.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:16 pm
I don’t think the problem is Freeman in general. I think the problem is his clutch decision making and propensity to stare down his receivers and also throw to them not only when they are heavily covered but when his passing lanes have 1-2 people in them which results in weak interceptions mostly from grossly under thrown balls. Look at last week. Asante Samuel should have had two easy pics that he dropped. The same yesterday. Josh threw up two noodles that the defense should have easily picked. One that was overturned by a rouging the passer.
After said interceptions his body language has to be the worst I’ve ever seen. He has to own his mistakes and be a leader when correcting the mistakes of others. The TV doesn’t lie. Sometimes Josh has the deer in headlights look.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:18 pm
at this point we are looking at the difference between Romo and big Ben with Freeman. One wins big games. one does not. Time will tell sooner than later.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:25 pm
I Bucfan 20…Not trying to start an argument with you. Which two QBs, I am assuming one is Brad Johnson (since you said SB winning), the other I am not sutre of, since it would have been one of the others that won a SB with another team (Dilfer? Williams?). I agree with whoever said 1 sack is amazing with this line, but some of the credit goes to free as well. Do you remember that game against Pittsburg when Johnson was sacked 13 times? (I may be off by a sack or 2) I beleive Brad at this time is our greates QB ever, the stats and the super bowl ring prove it, but Free is very close in stats. Freeman is having a great year, inagine if his completion percentage goes up, he would be scary. That being sad the talking heads say to not expect a greater passing percentage with this type of deep ball offense. We should take a look after the next four games. I still say the defense plays a big role. They played well yesterday, but Denver’s defense played better. All of these guys are good.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Free’s main problem to me is his consistancy or lack there of. At times he can be elite. Most of the time though he is just ordinary. We have seen it the last 2 or 3 seasons now where he only shows up the last 2 minutes of the game. Someone had mentioned it on another article but would love to see them start the game in a no huddle hurry up offense. Im shocked that nobody has even attempted it yet.. maybe they know something we dont.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:30 pm
By the way, I don’t have NFL Network and to yes under physical pressure he scatters the ball like a shot gun blast. just look an earlier picture here on the site where he under threw Williams. That is the typical thing he has done in college and now. Try looking at his college games and you can see for yourself.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:34 pm
@ silence
your wrong. all you have to do is look at our own dl to know that some QBs dont get hit regularly. lol
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Not sure what to think about Freeman. He is wildly inconsistent in that he can make a pinpoint throw (Dallas Clark throw yesterday, Vincent Jackson throw in Carolina) and then miss wide open people (Williams yesterday and last week). He definitely needs to work on accuracy in the offseason but Ron Turner is one of the best if not the best QB coach around. Hopefully, he can become more accurate on a more consistent basis. But he is very young, very big and the talent ceiling on him is endless. I hope he can be a top 10 QB but he isn’t one now.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:38 pm
@Andrew
Lol, Ok I can admit when im wrong
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:40 pm
“For those who have trouble with reading comprehension, Joe’s simply beginning to question whether Freeman will perform in the big games.”
He has already, and that’s my point – the defense has not. So the “W’s”, or lack thereof, are not on Freeman.
Me coward? Hardly-
“If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who trashed the nitwits who suggested Dan Orlovsky should be the Bucs starting quarterback.”
**The suggestion is so ignorant it didn’t deserve trashing anyone. Hardly a Freeman endorsement on your part.
“If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who scolded those harping on Freeman for his early-season struggles, stating Freeman needed time to learn the new offense.”
**That would be an accurate statement, one even non-football people should grasp.
If Joe is so anti-Freeman, then please inform Joe who it was on this very site who made fun of those who believed the Bucs should draft Geno Smith next spring.
**See the Orlovsky comment.
I don’t think I was lying about your take on Freeman. Most of your Freeman posts are negative in nature in my opinion so it’s easy to see how you feel based on how you write. If you think I’m lying then that’s your perception. Would hypocrite be better? You claim to defend him then question if he’s what the Bucs need?
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:46 pm
I have to disagree, Joe. I was at the game yesterday, and I have to say that there was just no one open on a majority of Freeman’s drop backs. Sure, he missed a play here and there, but he couldn’t have done much better than he did. That’s not making excuses for him, that’s giving credit where it is due – and the Broncos D deserves credit for playing some excellent football.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Just a thought: if Nicks and Joseph were still in the lineup and we had a pass-rush or secondary, the Bucs would surely have had more points, and the Broncos, less.
December 3rd, 2012 at 4:58 pm
I like him. And anyone who cares too much about this issue, get a life!
December 3rd, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Freeman SUCKS,CASE CLOSED!!!!
December 3rd, 2012 at 5:50 pm
3,003 yards – 23 Tds – 8 Ints – 4 games to go. Seems terrible to me smh
December 3rd, 2012 at 5:52 pm
@McBuc.
I am not either. Yes Doug is the other. In fact I have seen Garcia pull out games like this. When they were beating hell out of him.But So far from what I have seen when Freeman is under physical pressure he gets rattled overthrows, underthrows, throws behind and throws picks. Many balls should have been picked yesturday. 1 was but luck got called back. Until he shows he can do things against good teams my opinion stands. When he has all day he is good. But alot of his passes are acrobatic catches by receivers too. So don’t for get those.
December 3rd, 2012 at 5:56 pm
On pace for 4,004 Yards – 31 Tds – 11 Ints…. Yep, he clearly sucks and is the obvious reason we are losing.
December 3rd, 2012 at 6:08 pm
He does fine until his mechanics break down.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:01 pm
I strongly disagree with those who thinks Josh stinks, he is a good quarterback. To be a great QB he has some developing to do. He is a much better passer in the shotgun, when he has more time to look over the defense he makes better reads. He does need to work on moving around the pocket better. He throws a beautiful ball, just isn’t very accurate, especially on the medium throws. I would love to see him completing 65% of his throws. 57% is below mediocre in the NFL and what is his pct. on 3rd down. Love his downfield throws, love his jump all throws, like his crossing route throws. He just needs to develop a faster read and recognition of the defenses.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Can’t believe I just wasted my time reading all this crap.
Freeman is an average to slightly above average quarterback with elite talent. But he’ll only get so much time here to show it. Joe writing about that is not a crime against humanity people. It’s reality.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Dilfer with a fro ….o my jesus thats funny
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Dilfer couldn’t complete the long Bomb as freeman did…..Alvin harper is ur #1 wr….Dilfer was set up to be failure since we drafted him….lucky him that Raven picked him up and won SB.
December 4th, 2012 at 1:05 am
In the Dallas game the color commentator (think it was aikman) said it was well known across the league that Freeman only looks at one side of the field. So in the game he pointed out how Rob Ryan taught his safety to stick with the side free looked to first. It allows safeties to take chances. Last night I heard Tom Brady quoted as saying “the place I look first is the one place you can rule out.”
Just another difference between elite and not elite. you either have field vision or you don’t. It’s not necessarily something that develops in a lot of guys. It hasn’t with Josh. My fear is we will be mired in mediocrity.
December 4th, 2012 at 10:21 am
Yup Free is really bad at looking at the other side of the field. That is something he should work on.
I havent played madden in ages but there was this one year when they introduced the vision-cone. You had to work it like Brady to be succesfull, look at one receiver knowing that he’s not the target then quickly switch to the real target before throwing. If you know the routes it should be posible to learn doing that.
December 4th, 2012 at 10:36 am
FLBoyInDallas,
Here’s what I think…I believe it is a good thing that Freeman was drafted so young. Otherwise Greg Olson might have destroyed him. Thankfully, at only 24 he is still young enough to become great under the right coaching. His gameplay has improved in leaps and bounds this year.
Even if you look back to 2010, his best play was in panic mode. This year he is cool even when things don’t go right. The offensive line stripped him of some great gains in the last game because of penalties. Dotson kept costing big time.
The delemma is that Freeman needs a line he can trust, and he won’t have that until next year due to injuries. My concern is that Freeman could get injured because of the awful oline play. So I guess its better for them to get holding penalties than to let Freeman get hammered at times.
If the Bucs had an offense like this during 2000-2010 we would have had multiple Superbowl trips. Freeman is the best QB this team has ever had…better even than Doug Williams (much better in my book). He is only a year or so from full maturity under Sully. The Bucs need to be sure Sully stays..which won’t be hard because teams will not offer him an HC position this year…regardless of how local media tries to stir things up.
I look forward big time to next year…but I also look forward to our remaining games this year. At least the games are worth watching. Last year was HARD.
December 4th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
Freeman is the best quarterback we’ve ever had in Tampa Bay–at least if you believe the numbers. He needs only four touchdown passes to break the single season record and will likely also break the record for yards passing in a season. So sure, let’s get rid of him. We need to be watching when he duplicates Doug Williams Super Bowl MPV in a few years, while toiling for some other team.
December 4th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
@ctord
But also remember that Big ben had an exceptional defense and a much more veteran group of team mates. The bucs are still young all around and Freeman often has had to put the team on his back. That’s a lot to ask for, especially from a quarterback learning on the go. However, what he experiences now will make him exceptional in the future.