Freeman Needs One More Win
December 10th, 2012
Joe hears the sharks circling — the loud voices of sports radio callers today wanting Josh Freeman out of town after this season, the subtle salivating of radio hosts warming to the idea of a future dump-Freeman bandwagon, the wild emails filling Joe’s inbox, the anti-Freeman passion in the comments on these here pages.
Sure, Joe has serious questions about Freeman’s ability to take the Bucs where every fan wants them to go. But Joe’s hardly advocating giving up on Freeman like some are.
The Bucs would be nuts to not have Freeman as this team’s QB in 2013, unless some bizarre QB gift from the heavens falls into One Buc Palace, which is about as likely as Rachel Watson asking Joe to meet her under the mistletoe.
But Joe knows Freeman desperately needs one win in these final three games of 2012, all of them difficult.
It would be nothing but ugly for Freeman in the local media this offseason if he closes 2012 with a six-game losing streak, on the heels of a 10-game losing streak to wrap up 2011. That’s tough to defend.
Today, Tampa Bay Times columnist Gary Shelton, who also co-hosts Gary and The Commish on 98.7 FM, said Freeman is perhaps the most polarizing quarterback he’s ever seen. The Good Josh/Bad Josh in-game act is wearing on Shelton, who says Freeman has reached the point in his career where “it’s time to start getting some of those bad moments erased.”
Count Shelton among the heavyweight circling sharks.
Of course, Joe wants to see Freeman win three games out of the final three, not just one. But he absolutely has to lead the Bucs to at least one more victory. Joe’s not sure Freeman will deal with the immense pressure that would come with losing out.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
And the Ravens just fired Cam Cameron as their OC.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
I am no supporter of Freeman, But you have to let him playout next year before any decisions are made. Now if we are talking about the GM, The no hit Pop-star can leave today and we would be better off.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Lol @ the absurdity…… Just remember The names …Doug Williams and Steve Young and All pro Vinny Testaverde…..
December 10th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
It amazes me that Frereman gets so much blame, when the defense fell apart.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
The dude has talent that is obvious to everyone. It’s up to the coaches to get this playing at a more consistent level. It would be foolish to give up on him now.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Joe, the solution is quite simple, bench Josh and see what happens. If the replacement completes the passes Josh is missing, we win, if not, we need a new replacement.
This will also be the kick in the rearend that Josh needs to see if he is going to be the man or not. If his pride is such he doesn’t care if he starts or not, he is not the man for the job. If he cares and PRODUCES, he has his head together.
We have nothing to lose with the three games remaining.
It is also my opinion that defensive head coaches play defensively to protect a lead near the end. If you trust your QB and other ball handlers, you keep your game plan and run and pass, if not, you just run or pass depending on the safest ball handler. I think the coaches did not trust Josh in throwing the ball because he should have had a couple of interceptions yesterday except for the receivers playing DB or the DBs just dropping the ball.
Josh is either slow, on something, or hurt, but their is a problem and I think benching him for the next game is the answer.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Wow people were all saying to sign him to a long term contract 2 weeks ago and now he needs to be benched and replaced?
Gary is just as bad as some fans with his ridiculous statements, he is awful and brings down the show that the Commish carries!
December 10th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
This is NOT an isolated incident. He has real accuracy issues, very little anticipatioin, and has trouble, IMO, reading defenses, and staring down recievers. He was OUTPLAYED by a rookie starting his 4th game. At minimum, he should have some legitimate competition goin forward.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
It isn’t about wins, its about short/intermediate accuracy. It simply MUST improve or Freeman is not the future despite his gifts. You just can’t be that inaccurate on passes that ought to be bread and butter. I’m not sold on either keeping or dumping Free right now, but it is crystal clear to me what needs to improve.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Having said that, let me reply to the ‘outplayed by a rookie’ thing.
Gorrer and Johnson vs Asomugha and DRC! The comparisons to Foles don’t matter. The short range accuracy matters.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Feast or Famine…that seems to be the gameplan for Freeman. Run it or throw downfield. When other QBs get pressure from us, they get the ball off quickly with short passes. We rarely do that…and that is mostly all we did with Josh in previous years. I think the playcalling leaves a bit to be desired and it is putting a lot on Freeman. I do think he has the talent and if we had a pass defense, he would have played well enough to have won several more games.
Freeman isn’t the reason why we aren’t Superbowl bound and if do eventually get there, it won’t be because of him either.
We had a well rounded team 10 years ago with a good, but not elite QB…
December 10th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
The fact that Schiano ran the ball on 3rd and 8 tells you about his confidence in 5. Did the defense have an epic collapse? Did Koenen hit the “punter wall” on that last punt? Yep, but to put up zero on a dejected defense is atrocious and sticks in the minds of everyone. Three games in a row now we have seen the same thing, Freeman having a fit because suddenly his receivers have no idea where they’re going. I just keep telling myself “new coaches, new scheme. new coaches, new scheme” but that’s starting to get old. I never once got angry watching the bucs for the past 10 years, but yesterday I was fuming… We have so much talent and it seems like it’s getting wasted with Josh pulling his Jekyll/Hyde act.
Hopefully the coaching staff can get it turned around.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Keep Free, the man who should be on the hot seat is Mr. Dominik. All the fancy drafts and bragging havent even produced a wild card team. What was the phrase? Lasting contenders?
If 2013 is a fifth straight year without a playoff appearance, time for him to go. This tune is getting old.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Bucs need to sign Freeman or Bennett this year and use all that cap space b/c i don’t think they can carry the extra money over to next year with the new cap rules about to take effect??? So, all that cash would be lost. And did JOE just say he wants to meet Rachel’s Cameltoe???????
December 10th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Inconsistant play is a hallmark of new systems. Back to the,”It took Eli”
4 Full Complete Seasons & Off Seasons to get fully comfortable in this system. Not only Eli, but his receivers as well, we are not even a full season into this yet. OMFG, the sky is falling, Freeman can’t hit a receiver standing in front of him. Yeah, last season we were being trucked 30 to nuthin’ in the first half by teams. Please keep in mind yesterday might have been the first time all season the Eagles had both Cromartie-Rogers and Nnamdi playing man-press for 99% of the game, the one thing these two do competently, which the Eagles hadn’t let them do all season.
December 10th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
I don’t know if Josh will ever be an elite Qb or not. I know that he didn’t lose this game yesterday. There were several so-called elite QBs that lost yesterday.
Did Freeman have a bad game yesterday? Yes, a horrible performance, but he didn’t throw a pick six or take any part in this loss – he simply played bad. When a QB, good or bad gives a team an 11 point or 2 TD lead with 6 mins remaining, that team should win the game. Now if you want to blame Josh for not having a bigger lead to cover over the inept defensive playcalling or the sins of a pourous secondary, you have a gripe!
But once we got a 2 touchdown to win lead, Josh didn’t do one single thing to cause that loss. Now deal with the facts!
December 10th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
when Free gets into a rhythm he is as good as most of the top QBs in the league. does nobody else see that? but I tell you what when he is ice cold its hard to watch sometimes. I think the game plan every week should be to get Josh in a rhythm early in the game with short, quick passes to help build up his confidence throughout the game.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
I agree completely, Freeman didn’t lose that game any more than he lost the game to the Giants, Broncos, Falcons, Saints, or Redskins.
We need to fix our secondary and tweak a few other positions ie: Dl,TE, LB…. we have kickers, runners, recievers….and a QB
December 10th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
and if that takes away from the running game, which it probably will, then so be it. once he is in rhythm then you can start running the ball.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Agreed Mac. Ppl need to blame the gorrers, Leonard Johnson they just flat out sucks. Biggers and gaitor was balling yesterday. And if roscoe Parrish can’t get a punt return out of all the tries yesterday past 10-20 yards shame on him. The one decent one he ran out of bounds with blockers ahead of him. That’s inexcusable to me.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
JOE, don’t EVEN say your not about moving on from no. 5 because with all of these articles, it’s clear that he has become your equivalent Barrett Ruud or GMC to Ian Beckles, lets call a spade a spade, you are far from sold on Josh as many of your followers, I get that, but he doesn’t have a plethora of talent that other QB’s don’t have, he basically has Jackson and Martin which is huge, but that’s the bulk of the difference from last year, Freeman can flat out ball and the people that want him out of here will regret it big time! If we can’t stop teams from scoring, then the QB should be where your cross-hairs are planted on!
December 10th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
We should have signed sproles when we had the chance.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
I understand that the QB gets the heat; he didn’t play well the last 2 weeks overall. He’s made some good plays but he needs to be playing better. That being said, he’s here next year period and starting unless the wheels fall off completely. He’s had a number of great games this year, most of the losses can’t be blamed on him. Someone said bench him? I realy hope you or just fuming or joking or both!
I still think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to let him play out next season in his last year. They could always sign him mid way through the year or worst case scenario franchise him if needed.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
But nevermind he wouldn’t get an accurate ball 5 yards out so he’d be no good. Freeman I subpar at most and if not for lousy db’s with no hands he’d average two to three picks a game. Vincent Jackson is making him look good just like he did Phillip rivers. And I’m tired of t. Underwood be thrown to 80% of the time on 3rd down like he’s so great. He has been a lucky slot downgrade at most.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Freeman had horrid first half. Clearly. But the game plan was ridiculous, a throwback to early games and the coaches not understanding Doug Martin is really good. Keeping that defense off the field at all costs is the key to the Bucs winning. Did they really chunk the team’s run-first identity into the garbage because of the Eagles’ poor pass defense? Aren’t you supposed to make a crappy team adjust to you not the other way around? … I have too many questions to list really.
Everything about yesterday’s game was horrible: The first half game plan, the QB decisions, inability to pressure the oppo QB with the front four OR with blitzes, inability to cover receivers, the penalties (not only were they stupid but horribly timed, too!), punting away from the returner and losing 15 yards of field position, etc.
Doug Martin and Vincent Jackson, you guys are spared. Everyone else, you totally failed.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
We need to keep Freeman!! I hate him when we lose, but he’s a good QB. Just needs to be a little more consistent. My personal onpinion is his ranking is about #13 in the NFL. He’s not top 10 because of his incosistency, but he’s definitly better than half the starting QB in the league. We can win with Freeman. Want a little more faith in Freeman from our coach and coordinator to make a throw on 3rd and 8 to possibly seal the game. Not letting him throw shows more faith in the Defense then your Franchise QB. Just look at how upset Barber was. He even blamed the DBs pretty much without calling out names. Play calling on 3rd down for the offense and defense needs to get better. Defense needs to stop blitzing on 3rd we get beat everytime.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
JOE here,
@BucFever40 – How much more clear could Joe be that Joe is not advocating ditching Josh Freeman? Jimminy Christmas.
… As for Freeman’s weapons, Joe has long written about how Mike Williams is a superior talent and an excellent player. Joe never fell off Williams’ bandwagon. In fact, Joe ranted about about how Williams was the most dissed receiver he could ever remember for a guy that turned in 65 catches in back-to-back seasons out of college. And clearly Dallas Clark qualifies as a weapon. He’s not a “basketball” tight end, but he’s got great hands, gets open, and has balls in traffic, as evidenced by the hit he absorbed yesterday.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I think a lot of you people are looking at the Freeman Bashing the wrong way. I cant speak for anyone else but I criticize him because I know he does not suck and has the ability to play great. But for whatever reasons he has not been and usually doesn’t for much of the games. The reason why nobody is bitching about the pass defense or Gorer is because we all know they do suck and probably wont get much better so its pointless to bitch about things we already know suck.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Hurry up offense is when freeman is the sharpest when he keeps defenders on there heels. And he needs to establish a game to where if no ones open then run. Don’t just sit in the pocket and window shop his receivers. Rg3 is accountable on every down because he combos out of a formation where no one thinks it will have success on a nfl level.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Hey, Joe, I got an idea, why not ask the Offensive Coordinator and Greg Mr Fundamental Tough Guy Schiano where they got their game planning and playcalling, K-Mart? !st hapf, we try, what, 4, 5 times to force a long pass 40+ yards down the sideline before we have either a pass game or running game established? We get cute with running Doug Martin out in the flat, and get nothing, like 3-4 times. And have they heard of either the screen play, or crossing routes? Where is the early 6-8-10 yard passing game with three tight ends to move the chains and build momentum for Freeman to gear him up for the long passes at opportune times? And worse, when we take an entire firat half to see how this ain’t working, then we go all lit up in the third and early fourth quarter with just these kind of passes, and suddenly remember to open holes in the O-line for Doug Martin to go flash through! Our game planning is poor, poor, poor! And if Freeman is showing frustration when guys aren’t where they are supposed to be in their routes, doesn’t this look like Sullivan was writing up plays that didn’t work, or were not practiced enough to be executed? And finally, after lighting it up and going ahead, we go stupid conservative again and give the ball back with plenty of time for Foles to eat us up (along with some very damaging penalties and poor corner back playing) and take the game away. Didn’t Shiano watch when we gave the ball back on another conservative drive late ending in a punt and lost the game to Matty Ice? I cannot blame Freeman for the poor pass performance for the above reasons. He is doing just what is being asked of him, but he is being asked to execute poor planning. Greg Schiano needs to shut up about kick-offs and victory plays and start learning what it takes in the NFL to do what is necessary between these two plays to win.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
WOW! This site is shizophrenic…last week you’re talkin about how Josh needs to show up and win out the final 4 games, to NOW, it’s just win ONE game. My God, has the bar been lowered so quickly. It’s gone from showing he deserved a contract by winning out to maybe if he’ll just win A game. Is this the Schizo Joe?
December 10th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Freeman will get better once he ditches some of his own personal habits that hold him back from being a great qb. Does he suck? No. Does he has what it takes to be great? Yes. Some of his flaws are mental and blitz happy Sheridan cost us every close game we lost. Why because he’s not a defense genius. I argued heavy with people that our defense is just as good if not better then seattles but we haven’t scored 58 points and held anyone to a doughnut this year. Tampa needs to play for there nfl pride the next three weeks. Because if I was gm the unemployment line would have grown thick these past few weeks.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Funny how everybody comes out of the woodwork to place the blame on Freeman….Im sure every single one of you Freeman bashers were on his bandwagon 3 or 4 weeks ago when he was putting up 30+ points. Freeman did not turn the ball over once yesterday, nor has he much this year…and why does the blame get placed on him when the O-Line couldnt open holes for Martin and when his receivers run bad routes and drop passes?? Granted I will admit that some of his throws were off but for you all to say the blame is on him is BS. Did Freeman not give the team an 11 point lead?? The secondary fell apart as did the O-Line with penalties (false starts at home is unacceptable!!) Freeman is a better QB than most in the league and better than any coming in the draft!!!
December 10th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Do the BUCS treat Freeman the same way they treated Blount? Blount, two seasons ago, showed “flashes” of being a dominant force in the offense. No one wanted to tackle him…he was a threat to take it all the way any time he touched the ball. He may not have been the most complete RB in the league, but he proved to be dangerous. He gained over 1,000 yards after only playing in half the season. Yet, a shiny new toy came through the door and he lost his spot because of “inconsistency” and “short-comings”. Would Freeman be subjected to the same kind of treatment? These “flashes” of being a “Franchise QB” have come and gone. With two rookie QB’s possibly leading their teams into a playoff spot, can Freeman still have the “Franchise” moniker? Serious question.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
GTFOH. Nobody can justify ditching a QB that will likely finish the year with around 30 TDs and 10-12 picks. Nobody. I understand the inconsistency drives all the fans crazy. It could be much worse, IMO. Give the kid a little more time. He is only on pace to smash every Bucs QB record standing.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
People, Josh Freeman is going to throw for almost 4,000 yards with 30 TDs and probably 10-12 INTs. He has accuracy issues right now, but he has shown to be a 60% passer in previous seasons. He’ll settle in.
Who in the world are we gonna get instead of Freeman? Answer that questions please. Like it or not, he is the Bucs QB going forward barring a disastrous finish to the year. We jettison Freeman and we end up like the Arizona Cardinals.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
And the win better be against the Falcons (you know a team with a winning record)?
No excuse…….he can beat them. He almost did the first time. So do it!
December 10th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
@raphael…….OMG Testeverde SUCKED. I remember when he came to Dallas, he was HORRIBLE. The fans at Texas Stadium were holding signs that said “Vinny Intercepte”. He had TWO good seasons (’96 and ’98), out of a 21 year career. That’s it. He sucked in Tampa. The real mistake was letting Steve Young go.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
I’m going to list all of the starting QBs and compile them into groups that I’d rather have over Freeman, those that I’m glad I have freeman and those that I’m not sure about… I’m also not going to put in any rookies.
Give me these QB’s:
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, 2 Mannings, Drew Brees, Schuab (questions about durability and if a system qb tho), Roethlisberger
QBs that I think are marginally on same level (some a little better and some a little worse) but wouldn’t trade:
Cutler, Rivers, Ryan, Alex Smith, Flacco, Dalton, Matthew Stafford
QBs that wish they were Freeman:
Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Bradford (currently, I could see him moving up the list in future), Palmer, Cam Newton, Cassel, Brady Quinn, Matt Moore, Ponder,Arizona QB, Blaine Gabbert… (Some of these aren’t starting but they have or were considered to start at some point)
*I personally don’t like Newton as a QB. I live in Charlotte area and I just don’t like his play style or attitude
I put Romo in his own list. I wouldn’t trade him for Freeman but I don’t think he’s as bad as the bottom list. I could also see Bradford grouped with Romo…
December 10th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
This recent rookie QB class is putting crazy thoughts into everyone’s heads. People forget that for every Luck and Griffin, we have guys like Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, etc who all have been slow adjusting to the NFL. Fans asking for Geno Smith or Barkley are asking for a couple more years of mediocrity. This team is a few defensive pieces away from being a playoff contender, and for all of Freeman’s faults, he is putting up better numbers than any other QB in Bucs history. He’s inconsistent and can be extremely frustrating sometimes, but sometimes you have to view the situation from the larger perspective.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
@Miracle………are you kidding me about Romo? The guy is an outstanding QB regardless of what the Dallas fans or other people say. Oh…….and he’s kicked the Bucs ass every single time he’s faced us.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
You got to be freaking kidding, slapping a franchise tag on Freeman. That would more than double his pay. How about offering him the NFL minimum?
The Bucs should have some kind of public relations media drive where they inflate his value to the team and then trade him to KC. That’s where he wants to be and they desperately need a QB.
Maybe they are foolish enough to part with a #1 or #2 draft pick. That would free up $8.3 million in cap space next year. Draft Geno Smith or Matt Barkley and they’ll be good going forward for the next decade.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Freeman is 24 yrs old. Remember that. He is still one of the youngest QBs in the NFL. His problems have coincided with a defensive meltdown as well and everything gets magnified.
Did you guys see Ronde Barbers interview after the game? I dont think I have ever seen him that upset after a loss. And he wasnt upset with Josh Freeman.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
I noticed a tasteful, timely and respectful reference to the beautiful Rachel Watson for once.
Thanks to Ian’s Lisp to pervert that reference and from a woman no less.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
all this banter on freeman is blowing my mind. dont get my wrong, he didnt have a good game by any means yesterday. but a pop warner team could drive down the field on our defense right now. i respect our run d, but our pass defense is A THOUSAND times more embarassing than Josh Freeman’s play. Like someone said a few posts earlier. He gave us a two score lead with 6 minutes left. and our GARBAGE secondary gave it up. If it werent for Ronde Barber, this D would break records for how HORRIBLE they are. Im sorry guys, but Mark Barron has been nothing but a disappointment. Jermaine Phillips laid bigger hits than him, and he was average at best. Barron has NOT panned out thus far as a top 15 pick. So lets focus on that moreso than Josh maybe not winning the game, but def not losing it either.
December 10th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Ralphael is a fool, pay him no attention Testaverde is only the All time NFL leader in interceptions. Yea wonderful player he was for us. Young wasnt very good here and the fact he went to San Francisco and learned the game behind (in my opinion) the best QB of all time in Montana helped him tremendously. If he stayed here in Tampa there is no telling how good or bad he may of been. Hindsight is always 20/20
December 10th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Rich you are talking about a guy who is only 13 games into his career. He’s a rookie. Yes lets worry about a rookie who was very good for the beginning of the year but hasent played consisntantly for the last few games. Rookies never do that right? What a bust he is. Lets cut him and sign a no name off the street. Your awesome (sarcasm intended)
December 10th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Let me start by saying when Freeman struggles the way he struggled yesterday, I too want to run him out of Tampa…
HOWEVER, I think we all need to check ourselves…most Freeman haters on this board think good QBs are a dime a dozen…and that we can draft someone better next year… GREAT QBs ARE NOT EASY TO FIND. Take a look around this league, or the teams that have spent YEARS trying to find “the franchise” good god, look at the Redskins and how long it took them to find their QB… sometimes it’s the luck of the draw, sometimes you get what you pay for. I’d rather have Freeman than many other QBs that are starting in the NFL.
Josh is big, durable, mobile (at times), and he can throw the ball 70 yds in the air… and has shown he can win and that he be clutch (@ Panthers game). Let me know how many NFL free agents or next years draft class has all those attributes… we over achieved this year, Everyone had modest expectations to start the season, then we started to win, we saw the potential, that’s why we want this so bad. Take a deep breath, let’s see how he does next season.
December 10th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
With all due respect, anyone who feels that Freeman should go is an idiot. Even though he has been rather inconsistent at times this season he is still the 10th highest rated QB in the league! 25 td’s to 8 picks. The Bucs would be the laughing stock of the league if they let him get away at this point in his career. CHILL!
December 10th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Tell me how yesterday’s collapse was Freeman’s fault.
Up 21-10 with 7 minutes left, 32nd pass defense, and Foles tosses 381 yards and 3 TDs. 2 of which are the last 7 minutes of the game.
Nobody is saying Freeman played great, but when exactly is the defense going to help out the offense?
The offense has carried this team all season.
December 10th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Spot on Justin and warren…..lol at silence…
freeman is here to stay… Lets not put the game in the defense hands..
December 10th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Happy to see the support for Freeman….lol @ the Freeman haters..lololol
December 10th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
SilenceTheCritics, YOU’RE grammar is wonderful (sarcasm intended)
I understand hes a freshman, and trust me, Im a supporter of Barron. But lets spend more time focusing on more alarming things than Freeman NOT losing the game. Putting the team in a position to win, and our SECONDARY (Barron included) BLOWING THE GAME FOR HIM AND US.
December 10th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
What game this year has the defense locked down? The answer is none.
They blew that NYG game.
They blew the Washington game.
They tried as hard as they could to give away the Oakland game.
They blew the Philadelphia game.
All they had to do in any of those games was make one damn play. ONE!! But they made zero. Instead they had coverage busts, dropped interceptions and mass confusion. Our offense wasnt gonna light up the scoreboard all year. Things go up and down throughout the course of an NFL season except for the Bucs defense, which has been down since the get go.
December 10th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
@ Rich
The same secondary that held the Eagles in check for most of the game But collapsed at the end?? Sure we could blame them but whats the point when we all know they did better than expected. But to disregard the 3 quarters of garbage football that Freeman began the game with is being blind. So your telling me if we scored just 3 points more in the first half that wouldn’t of helped at all? You are a blind homer. Oh and btw you can shove your spell checker up your ass wanna be teacher.
December 10th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
@Diehard_Bob – Awesome point that is exactly what I said in another one of my posts. People crack me up in that they go on rants devoid of any statistical basis or factual evidence.
Let’s look at Josh’s Stats:
#10 QB Rating 91.1
HE IS IN A TIE WITH TOM BRADY (yes you read that right TOM BRADY) for TD’s with 25 (The only folks with more are Brees, Manning and Rodgers)
He has only 8 INT ( the only people with less who have played as much as him are Brady with 4 and RG3 with 4 NOTE: RG3 only has 18 TD’s)
He is very hard-working.
He is big, strong and can run ok.
About the only negative is his accuracy on short to intermediate routes and I think that is more an issue of fundamentals and footwork that can be corrected. Also his pocket presence could improve.
@Zooconomics – exactly great QB’s are not easy to find is Freeman Elite no ?? Could he be ?? Maybe is he a second tier and good enough to win a Superbowl – yes. Considering we are presently the 4th highest scoring team behind the Giants, New England and Denver I don’t think our offense is our concern.
Imagine if the BUCS defenses of old had him as our QB we would’ve won multiple Superbowls. The problem is on the other side of the ball particularly in the defensive backfield.
@bucfanjeff – exactly NOT Freeman’s fault.
Did he have a bad game yes but he is no way lost that game. They had an 11 point lead in the fourth. I guess Freeman should play D-Line or go play corner too. Or perhaps he should have subbed himself in for Gorrer and actually caught the pass that hit him in the numbers. Geeze, Gimme a break. Was Ronde (someone who knows more about football than we will forget) mad at Freeman ?? Hell no he was mad at the Secondary because he knew they lost it.
I mean come on picking a QB is a crap shoot. Wasn’t Ryan Leaf supposed to be really good ?? Brady was a 6th round draft pick, Bart Starr was not even the starter for Alabama under the legendary Paul Bear Bryant. If we don’t sign Freeman we will see how bad our team can be when Orlovsky takes over.
December 10th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
@ Ramdog …KUDOS…. great post broski !! BAM!!!!!!!!!! spot on
December 10th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@Raph – Thanks was getting pissed about all the Freeman haters almost called into a radio show with those stats but got busy at work ;-).
December 10th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
I can understand the frustration of the Bucs fans, but I won’t pass judgement until next year. I want to see a full off-season with the same system, same players just to see if his accuracy improves the way Eli did with Sullivan’s system. Some people have to understand that 3 years of bad coaching will not get fixed in one off-season. If Freeman still is inconsistent then you can most likely sign him back cheap until they find a Franchise QB, but for now I’ll stick with Josh.
December 10th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Nice to see most people have a level head today. Yesterday i was surprised to see all the hate for Freeman. Josh may never be a Franchise QB. If you went and looked at each teams Qb i bet there aren’t even 10 teams that have True Franchise QBs. But I do think this year hes proved hes good enough to compete with just about any team. Of course he still needs to improve and get to that next level. But when you compare this year to last year i don’t see how you can be to upset with his play. Especially when you take into account hes in another new system.
I also think people overlook the coaching. I think the coaches have done a great job for the most part this season. But i think we’ve also seen them drop the ball at times by getting to conservative on offense at times. Esp when they have the lead. And I think at times we are way to aggressive on defense by sending quite a few blitzes while leading. We all know our DBs aren’t good enough for that.
December 10th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
“just to see if his accuracy improves the way Eli did with Sullivan’s system.”
What system was that? Wasn’t Sullivan the QB coach with the Giants?
The only system Sullivan would have had was, “How would you like your coffees, Mr Manning and Mr Gilbride? One sugar or two? One cream or two?”
As much physical talent as Josh Freeman has, I’m afraid his problem is insurmountable. As a wise man once said, “You can’t fix stupid!”
December 10th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
@Miguel El Magnifico
If you did your research before writing you would have known that they same QB mechanics drill that he had Eli do he has Josh doing. Just because he was the QB coach doesn’t mean he was an important part of the QB development. Eli himself stated that he has unorthodox style of coach the QB and it helps with accuracy by having him learn how to throw in bad situation. Those things can’t be fixed in one off-season.
December 10th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
I keep hearing about these fundamentals drills where they make the players do everything fundamentally correct but they still look like Raheem is running the show.
I’ve read that they spin the QB around and make him throw at unusual positions and angles but Josh’s problem is that he can’t complete a simple straight forward pass with both feet firmly planted on the ground and the receiver wide open.
Schiano’s fundamental tackling drill. Scroll down.
http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2012/10/21/3534678/morgan-the-magnificent-joe-morgans-touchdown-catch-ties-game-21-21
December 10th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
So Miguel, do you actually think the job of the QB coach is to get coffee for the QB? Are you freaking kidding me? If you do believe that, you should be banned for life from ever discussing football. You just blew my mind with that comment buddy.
Funny how you repeat the same stuff on each post, yet refuse to answer me when I respond. Do you realize how much talent Barkley has around him? Not only does he have weapons galore at skill positions, his OL is dominant. And oh yeah, nobody in the Pac 12 plays any defense. He’s got bust written all over him, ala Matt Leinart and Mark Sanchez. As for Geno Smith, although he’s got talent, he plays in a gimmick offense against a conference that plays less defense than the Pac 12. He’s fell off the map once people figured out how to defend him. Imagine what’s going to happen when a NFL coordinator gets to prepare for him. Maybe you should watch them play, instead of watching ESPN highlights of them. NFL defenses don’t play like Baylor.
December 10th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Let me know if you guys can find another QB available who throws for 4000 yards, 30 TD’s, and only 10 INT’s. Yes he is inaccurate at times, but this offense is a down the field type of offense, and he excels in that. We don’t have a true slot receiver, nor do we have a big bodied TE (like almost all elite QB’s have). I love Dallas Clark, but he’s a shell of his former self. If you had to rate the TE’s in the NFC South, he would be #4 at best. Where would Underwood rate as a slot receiver? Vincent Jackson is having probably his best year of his career, and he played for Norv Turner and had the ball thrown to him by Philip Rivers. Do you think that happens by luck? Mike Williams is going to finish with more yards as a #2 than he did as a #1. He doesn’t throw the ball to himself. Freeman obviously has accuracy issues that need to be improved, but he is not a QB that you just get rid of to draft 2 unproven players that are only going to be drafted high because this year’s QB class is absolute garbage.
December 10th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
We need to get to the bottom of whatever it is that causes him to melt down on certain possessions. We’ve all seen it in his eyes and you just know balls are going to go sailing and get picked off or nearly so.
December 10th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
The one time I visited #1 Buccaneer Place, I saw a yellow Mercedes Benz sedan pull up to a reserved parking spot. The chauffeur got out and ran around to open the door for Head Coach John McKay, cigar and all.
The driver bowed his head in deference, as McKay slid his fat ass over and got out of the car. If it had been raining, he probably would have held his umbrella.
The chauffeur was QB coach, Bill Nelson.
No, I don’t believe Sullivan job was just getting coffee with the Giants. He probably drove Coughlin’s limo as well.
If Sullivan is so good, why is Freeman so bad?
If USC has the best college talent that money can buy, why would they settle for a lesser talent at QB?
Sure, people say that QB’s from USC can’t play in the NFL, people used to say that black QB’s couldn’t play in the NFL. That made just as much sense.
“Imagine what’s going to happen when a NFL coordinator gets to prepare for him.”
Imagine when a professional coach like Norv Turner coaches Geno up.
December 10th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
So you base your belief on what you saw over 20 years ago (taking a guess there on how long ago)? Wow! You aren’t very persuasive are you?
And how is Freeman bad when he throws for 4000 and 30 TD’s? He only has 8 INT’s. Barkley throws that in 2 games. I don’t care who the coach, it always takes time to install a new offense. This new offense is a 180 from what we ran last year. It’s going to take time, especially with so many new guys.
As for USC, you apparently struggle with seeing my point. No doubt Barkley can throw the ball. However, it’s a lot easier when you can sit back in the pocket and eat a sandwich waiting for superior receivers to take advantage of inferior corners. When guys have 5 yards of separation, it’s not that difficult. That 5 yards becomes less than a yard in the NFL. That 6 seconds you get in the pocket in college becomes 2 seconds. That RB that picks up 8 yards on first down picks up 2 yards in the NFL. Those 3rd and 1’s become 3rd and 14’s in the NFL. He may end up being phenomenal, but I’ve seen the guy play a number of times and I’ve never been impressed. USC QB’s all tend to be very fragile emotionally, probably because they never realized the defense was actually out there to make things difficult for them, and they actually are able to hit you.
As for Geno, he’s the opposite type of player for a Norv Turner system. All you are doing is playing Madden with big names. You are ignoring scheme and surrounding personnel. Geno doesn’t fit in a Norv Turner offense. You just don’t know what you are talking about Miguel. Pieces have to fit together to work. Norv Turner and Geno Smith is a typical round hole, square peg situation.
December 10th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
@Hawiian Buc & @Miguel
I have been reading this argument and must agree with Hawiian Buc as I look only at facts and what the QB does on the football field to determine his value. The fact is Freeman is having a great year everyone that knows football knows that. In fact Brad Johnson called into Freeman’s talk show and congratulated him on what a good job he was doing and said it was a pleasure watching him this year. Did he have a bad game Sunday – yes but consider. It is his first year in this offense. First year with Quarterback Coach/Guru Ron Turner. He is young. People don’t realize but he is extremely young he is the same age as Tannehill and Josh Wilson and a year older than Luck. Did he have a bad game yesterday – yes his rating was 77 but he had 2 TD’s and NO INT. Did he play good enough to win. Yes, sometimes your defense has to pick up the slack in that department.
Come on anytime your rating is above 90 (Josh’s 10 best in the NFL) you are considered pretty darn good. Also when your touchdown to interception ration is 3 to 1 you are in Elite company. Oh did I mention he is tied with TOM BRADY is TD’s look that up. He will probably eclipse 30 TDs this year which is awesome and hopefully won’t get too many more INTs.
His completion percentage is 7% lower than last year but that is due to taking more shots down the field and also the fact the offense is not a West Coast style and there are much fewer of the high percentage passes. Anyhow we are the 4th Highest Scoring team. So the problem is not really with our offense.
I will not argue Josh Freeman is elite because he isn’t yet but he could be. Is his completion percentage low ?? Of course but hopefully he can get that up. Also a better pocket presence would be nice. That said when you are up 11 with 7 minutes left it is on your D to win.
I guess we should sign Joe Flacco (only free agent QB worth a dam this offseason) yet he has a worse QB rating and TD to interception ratio. Maybe we can trade for Kevin Kolb, John Skelton or Brady Quinn. Why not Tim Teebow Miguel we can get him for a song. RG3 and Luck are anomolies and for every one of them there is a bust or 10 so trading the farm to get Barkley or Smith is not a good idea.
Also alot of good QB’s are gotten in the later rounds here is a list:
Bart Starr – 17th round pick (yes they had more than 7 rounds)
Johnny Unitas – 9th round pick
Roger Staubach
Joe Theismann
Ken Stabler
Joe Montana
Mark Rypien
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady – 6th round pick
Brad Johnson – 9th round pick
Drew Brees
Oh Miguel and a little advice next time you post make sure to get a few facts it helps with your argument a tad.
December 10th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Exactly. Go to espn and look up the stats for QB’s. Freeman is easily in the top half of every stat. He’s fourth in the one that matters – TD’s. He only has 8 INT’s, which is phenomenal considering how many times he throws the ball down the field (and how often he throws high). I do not want to roll the dice and set us back a few years to bring in a rookie when the guy we have is under contract and putting up numbers. Give Freeman a defense and we are 10-3, worst case scenario.
December 10th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Lucky as hell no picks. Also his receivers pad his stats. Garbage teams he is good against. Good teams know how to rattle his cage. Just put pressure on. If he is so great how did he get shut out in the first half with good field position most of the time. Just a little pressure. He may get one more year but he better improve or hope he gets bad teams that make him look Pro Bowl. He also needs to help keep the defense off the field. He could have checked out of the third and 8 play!! Everyone could see the line was stacked. Or did you miss that? Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Guess who checked out and changed the final play of the game??
December 10th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
@BucFan20,
His receivers pad his stats? How exactly? By catching the ball? Jackson is having his best year as a pro. Better than he did with Philip Rivers. I’m not making excuses for his inaccuracy, don’t make excuses for his success. Every good QB has great receivers around him. This BS argument that the receivers are doing it is the biggest bunch of horse sh!t I’ve ever heard. You think those deep throws down the field are easy to make? Really? You should try out for the Bucs next year. And yes he plays better against bad teams. What QB doesn’t?
As for checking out of that last play, I highly doubt he had the ability to do that. I personally hated the play call, but you can’t expect any QB to check out of that. In reality, you wouldn’t be checking out of the play, you would be changing the philosophy of the coach. Schiano wanted to play it safe and run the ball. No way that’s on Freeman.
December 11th, 2012 at 12:33 am
All these pro Freeman comments talk about his stats. How many clutch must win games has he had? Even his 2010 season , he failed to beat a winning team. Yes the defense sucks but if Freeman had any accuracy and Consistency, he’d help out the D by keeping them off the field. I know there’s no quick fix QB to replace Freeman, but at least bring someone in that will motivate the guy. The coaching staffs have babied him for years. Time for him to toughen up. If not, I’d rather see someone in the game with more heart. After 4 years, I’m tired of hearing about potential, I wanna see production and passion.
December 11th, 2012 at 12:46 am
I’m all for bringing in someone to toughen him up. That’s probably the best idea anyone has had yet. A clutch must-win game is a bit deceiving. First of all, he hasn’t had many opportunities. We typically are done by November. You can’t truly blame him for putting his team up 11 with 6 minutes left, even though he played like doo doo. As for not beating a winning team, that’s because the winning teams are typically better than us. We aren’t experienced and talented enough to be a championship caliber team yet. I think we are getting closer to being there, but we aren’t there yet. We have been in every single game this year (aside from Denver, which I believe we weren’t even though the score indicated otherwise). That’s a HUGE improvement from last year. Putting that all on Freeman is not fair, just like you can’t give him all the credit for the wins.
December 11th, 2012 at 3:00 am
Everyone Calm down! Remember how you felt last year? Take a breather and be a fan! We are better and we are getting better. Flat out we lost because our pass DEF SUCKS! We traded Talib “we shouldn’t of” and Wright screwed us! Our OFF is putting up points we have rarely seen as BUCS fans. Our OFF Line is mainly backups, and we have a 1,000+ rusher, 1000+ receiver, and JF has passed for over 3000 yards (and is 25TD/8INT). JF is tied for 4th with the most TD’s! For once look at what the real issue is and get a DEF that can stop the pass with our DEF that stops the run and our 27.2 average points a game (5th best in the league) will get us to the PLAYOFFS! OFF wins games DEF win Championships! (2002)
December 11th, 2012 at 3:15 am
@Army Buc,
You better stop putting out all that good information. All the people that want Freeman gone don’t like to hear facts. They want us to trade for Tom Brady, or draft whoever does well at the combine, or whoever throws for the most yards during the college season. They don’t care that our offense is one of the highest scoring offenses in the league, and by far the best offense we have ever had. No way does a QB have anything to do with that. Hell, me or you could go out there with our receivers and throw for 4000 yards, because they do all the work. Clearly Freeman is the only QB in the league that has 2 good receivers. What are you thinking?
December 11th, 2012 at 3:50 am
@Hawaiian Buc
I’m frustrated as hell with Freeman, but I totally agree that it would be crazy to just get rid of him. I don’t want to do that at all. But he really has some huge flaws that he needs to improve on. Too much inconsistency, not stepping up when he has too, and zero playoff appearances in his 4 years. Really, it’s getting old. Next year, he has to do it. 2013: it’s time. The defense is horrendous and they’re the main reason we’re losing, but Freeman has had some bad performances (the Dallas game being the prime example) where he cost us the game. The WSH game he played horrendous in the 1st half and our defense eventually collapsed after being on the field so much. And yesterday he was invisible until the 2nd half (a little too late), and you can thank a muffed punt catch for his 1 play TD drive. If not for that miscue by PHI, it may not have even been close.
December 11th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
If im not mistaken his receiver get no separation on those short routes not even his slot guy…thats were the problem is no quickness or top end speed at the line no one respect the receivers speed so they bump all day….look at wes welker he is quick and great in and out of his breaks….our receivers are tall and great at the long ball not made for the quick hit offense…last but not least our corners flat out dont play physical