Shaun King Questions Greg Schiano’s Value
October 4th, 2012
One of three men to lead the Bucs to the NFC Championship game, Shaun King, doesn’t have good grades for the New Schiano Order.
King is down on the on-field results, says Schiano is making rookie mistakes, and King is surprised by the team’s penalities and related lack of discipline.
“If [discipline] is not going to be a positive attribute for this team, then I really don’t think he has any value,” King said of Schiano, during the Ron and Ian Show on WDAE-AM 620 today.
King went on to say the Bucs have yet to establish a positive identity and the playcalling has been poor and the defense has been suspect. King said if Raheem Morris and Greg Olson were coaching the Bucs and got these results with the 2012 roster, then they’d be getting clobbered repeatedly by fans and media.
Joe thinks King is being a bit harsh overall, but Joe respects King’s results-driven line of thinking.
Ultimately, Schiano must get his team to finish and lead the Bucs to wins. There are no third-tier Bowl games or moral victories in the NFL.
October 4th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Saying a man has no value after coaching four games in the NFL is ludicrous.
Lets see how things look in December at least.
October 4th, 2012 at 10:40 am
Hey everyone, lets all jump to conclusions after four games! After all, that is a rational way of thinking…. or is that a radio way of thinking? Hmmmm….
October 4th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Shaun King has alot to say considering he really should look at his own glass career before throwing stones at everyone else.Does anybody else get sick of his comments,or maybe its just me.Sorry guys he just really tics me off.
October 4th, 2012 at 10:45 am
One more thing Coach Ra was still looking like a football god after four games last year.We all know how that ended,lets give coach a chance to prove himself.
October 4th, 2012 at 10:49 am
That’s O.K.! Shaun King has no value to most of us either! He’s still on the Raheem band wagon & thinks he should still be the head coach. This is the same guy who was handed the Super Bowl on a silver platter by one of the best defenses of all time & blows it. Maybe he should go back and review his old tapes and see how Monte Kiffin pulled all his hair out watching him QB that game.
October 4th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Now you put me in a bad mood remining us of how that championship game was thrown away, after the defense destroyed ” the greatest show on turf”.
How many points a game were they averaging before they took on Mr. Kiffin?
October 4th, 2012 at 11:03 am
Raheem was in his third season right? We all supported him (well most of us)! In four games with two of them on the road we were in every game. New system new coaches & new philosophy. I’d say we’re on the right track and we can drive this train right over shaun’s A$$ while he’s rooting for the Redskins.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:03 am
2 points… did King see any Bucs game last year??? And , does Shaun King have any value??? He didn’t when he was in the league.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:08 am
With 98.7 now, does anyone still listen to 620?
King and WDAE = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ’s
October 4th, 2012 at 11:13 am
No value? 3 losses by a combined 15 pts vs losing one game by 30 pts last year. Yea no value Shaun. His impact is clearly obvious. It takes time to get everyone on the same page and to start winning. Even father Dungy needed more than 4 games. If anyone follows King on twitter you’d see he has an agenda. King is a joke just like his small hands.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Wow, four games in and King is nostradumbass!
Who would have thought a rookie headcoach would be making rookie misstakes! Atleast, they seem to be learning, progressing and improving from those misstakes.
BTW I love the fact we have an identity! Is it a good one? Is it a bad one? Atleast, we have one! Raheem’s team lacked one period! They had no identity at all.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:19 am
Shaun King was a Raheem apologist and kept saying that Raheem had no talent to work with. Raheem was one of the least disciplined coaches in NFL history. Card games in the locker room, players cursing him out, drinking beers with the players, rap music during practices what a joke. Even the players admitted Rah let them get out of control. Now King wants to slam Schiano??? Give me a break. I want to ask what value Shaun King has as a tv comentator. I was sickened by last year and embarrassed to be a Buc fan and now win or lose I have faith that Greg Schiano will get us to some victories when its all said and done.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:19 am
I question Shaun King’s value.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:21 am
The team is more disciplined than last year. We’ll see if the Bucs can continue to win Division games. If they can’t, Schiano & Freeman are done. TEBOW TIME!
October 4th, 2012 at 11:23 am
Rah and Olsen did have those results – and they were fired because of it. Yes, the penalties need to be cleaned up but the team has been more competitive in the first 4 games than the last half of 2011. It’s hard to change a culture and remove the bad coaching that these guys had. Shaun King is a joke and has no comments of value. Get a better source.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:24 am
King’s right. You can come in as Mr. Details and Discipline and then fail at those.
October 4th, 2012 at 11:35 am
Based on the last 4 coaching regimes… it is all too obvious. Certain types of coaches get free passes and some types of coaches get none.
Of all 4 games, we had the chance to win all 4. We only won 1. Last year we were getting blown the heck out of the stadium, with no chance of winning.
After 4 games, some of you guys are already writing off the coaching staff?
Question: Who do you want to be the coach?
For every negative thrashing given to this coaching staff, you should rebuttle with an alternative coaching option.
Otherwise, you are wasting your time.
I have serious doubts, unless we implode like Raheem Morris did last year, that the owners will fire this coaching staff after 1 year.
For those who think that the Bucs didn’t need discipline? See 2011’s performance and Raheem’s tenure as a “players coach”.
I want my Bucs to have accountability. I don’t want my Bucs to look like that disaster Raheem put on the field.
Oh yeah… I believe it’s not the players or the coaches that are the problem with the Buccaneers… it’s the fans. The fans of Tampa are the biggest bunch of sissy’s I have seen outside of the NY Jets fan base. There is no fan love for the Bucs. Really. Fan loyalty to the Bucs has to be around 20% of the Tampa population… perhaps the team should leave, just like the Browns left Cleveland.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
I had no idea 620am was still on the airwaves.
They are really struggling to find their value in sports entertainment.
So glad 98.7 is here.
Shaun King sucks. Period, dot, the end…
October 4th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Funny, I can remember a day when Buc fans questioned the value of a quarterback with hands so small that he kept dropping the ball when he went back to pass.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Love him or hate him, King is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
1) Schiano is making rookie mistakes.
2) The playcalling has been poor.
3) The defense has been suspect (especially the play calling)
Schiano was hired because he is the Raheem antidote. He’s brought discipline and attention to detail to the team. The problem is that by his focusing primarily on those categories, other traits Schiano was ASSUMED TO HAVE suffer:
A) He has shown little creativity.
B) He hasn’t shown the ability to adapt and make in-game adjustments.
C) He has a poor knowledge of his key players abilities (Example: see Blount).
Schiano is AS ADVERTISED which looks good during training camp, but not so good during games. Based on his personnel, his philosophy is ineffective. He brings a sledge-hammer to a sword fight and is repeatedly getting out-dueled.
He can’t see the forest because of the trees. We’ve lost three games primarily due to coaching…
October 4th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Raheem would have lost those three games in the first quarter….Nice try!
October 4th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
What good is taking a pain-reliever if it no longer relieves pain (since that’s its primary function)? On the same note, what good is being the Raheem antidote if your team is no longer disciplined and tending to details? Schiano hasn’t demonstrated the ability to provide much else, so what good is he if that fails?
October 4th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
So, who do you want to be the coach PewterC?
October 4th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I love how these guys with very questionable careers become overly judgemental as analysts as if they have a leg to stand on. The mystery is how Shaun King ever played in the NFL. He was one of the sloppiest, most ineffective quarterbacks I have ever seen who only got a shot because he was in the right place at the right time. Remember those juggernaut offenses and brilliant attacks that King led…..yeah I don’t either! Go back to your sitcom career Webster and stop trying to tell us Schiano is worthless after 4 games played.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
I’ll say it again: 3years vs. 4 games! By the way; didn’t that same Panther’s team we beat this year beat us by an average of about 40 points per game last year. (They were what 6-10) Then there is the fact that without a ton of luck the Giants would have never won that game. Now we should have won both the Cowboys and Redskins games, but this team will get it together in the next few weeks.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
I respect that Shaun can see the truth and will risk access to the Buc Palace for it. I know Shaun likes to visit the Buc Palace daily and get’s his information firsthand.
I can see the Little General setting up TSA type security at the Buccaneer Palace to x-ray, search, delay and probe all dissidents and insurgents. He will assign a tracking device and tap all of Shaun’s communication devices. He will bug all the conference rooms to help quell the insurrection. All players and coaches will be micro chipped for identification and tracking.
From this moment on all air traffic from Tampa International Airport will be diverted to accommodate the pilotless drone aircraft that be circling the practice fields and parking lots. Extra drones will be assigned as needed to follow players home and out on the town.
It’s the New Schiano Order, get used to it! Greg does kind of resemble Obomney.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
It doesn’t matter to me if Mickey Mouse was the coach if he does it well. I just want my Bucs to win. The problem is that I see gaping holes in this coaching staffs’ thought process. If I see it, then so do actual opposing NFL coaches. That’s why we’re 1-3.
With average game mgmt from coaching, we could probably be 4-0 looking at the Falcons eye to eye. Schiano gets no pass from me if the Bucs are losing…
October 4th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Rah HAD to go but in large part because we started slowly and didn’t play disciplined ball…now after 4 games we’re ending poorly and we’re still an undisciplined, poor tackling, flag drawing bunch. Coach deserves to be called on mat for this no question but he also deserves a season to allow his program to take hold of the team.
I obviously don’t agree with Shaun that Coach has zero value but the core skills that he was supposed to bring to the team have yet to yield dividends from what I’ve seen. Coach is not calling plays and he’s not coaching up individual positions. His job is to set the tone for the team, manage in-game situations, & make in-game adjustments based on his feel for the game. The results have been less than stellar thusfar.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Ye Shan King is absolutely correct but you can’t break out pitchforks and torches on a first year head coach after just four games. I would however like to know who is responsible for the poor defensive play calling and whether the offensive woes are more of the staffs fault or players fault. Some of the problems are going o happen with inexperienced coaches, but some things like the horribly timed constant blitzing at the end of games and th offensive play call in Dallas shouldn’t happen no matter how new the coaches are. That’s just common sense.
Either way the coaches are new and have to be given time but this staff will not go down in history as quick learners. It’s also kind of difficult to take anything King says at face value.
October 4th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
My choice would have been Chip Kelly, I would have made him the highest paid coach in the NFL, I would have put him on a private jet to Tampa and never let him out of my sight. The Bucs fumbled that opportunity.
Oregon has 86 straight sell outs. Last week Arizona had the ball in the red zone 6 times with zero points. This week Oregon led Washington State 23-19 at the half, Kelly went into halftime and coached his freaking ass off. The Ducks won 51-26 going away. The Ducks are well on their way to the National Championship game. Averaging over 50 points per game.
After 4 years at Rutgers, Schiano was 12-34. Kelly is 39-6.
Schiano never won the Big East, Kelly has won his Pac-10 conference every year.
Greg’s offense is dull, boring and unimaginative.
Chip’s offense is exciting, brilliant and one of the best is college football history.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
I agree Pewter C. Schiano is going to be here for the next 3 years so we’re stuck with him. I just hope that he learns from his mistakes and gives us the best chance to win. We have WAY too many offensive weapons to be so terrible and so limited offensively. I like what he’s done defensively because we are NOT good in the secondary or up front. We’re definitely using smoke, mirrors and Mark Barron just to get by.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
What is this world coming to? Now the replacement refs are piling on! lol
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/39908/replacement-ref-takes-shot-at-schiano
@Macabee – If you could refrain from sticking links like this in the comments, it would be appreciated.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
@Miguel
I enjoyed your New Schiano Order post above. Lol
However I completely disagree about Chip Kelly being a good fit in the NFL. His offense, while creative, isn’t actually complex. He uses physical advantages (pure speed) and fast yet efficient play calling (no huddle, same play with different variations) to win. The NFL is a chess match. Every team has talent so the smartest guy, the guy who finds and exploits mismatches wins. I think Chip knew that he and his offense would eventually get found out in the League and that’s why he turned the Glazers down.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
@Macabee
“ Hes college, Core said. The rest of them acted at a different level. You could just tell working with them, they were at a different level than what I felt like he was.”
Damn bro. That’s actually kinda embarrassing.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Yes, unfortunately, we have the most un-educated, ignorant, clueless fan base in the country. I do know there are MANY very good, smart fans here, but the majority, by far, are pathetic. After the total disaster last year, did you idiots think we were goin to the Super Bowl? My biggest hope was that we would be “competetive”, which we clearly are. Yes, there are some questionable calls being made, but the product on the field is 100X what we put out last season. We have been in every game we’ve played, and our coaches and players will learn from this, in fact, it may help us in the long run. Let’s give Shiano a chance before we try to run him out of town. I see a future winner on the horizon here for the first time in many years. Wow…what horrible fans this area has…maybe they’re all just baseball fans.
October 4th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
I bet Joe loves to print these king quotes. Only Ian Beckles can get as much of a rise from this website as ol’ tiny hands.
October 4th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
“King said if Raheem Morris and Greg Olson were coaching the Bucs and got these results with the 2012 roster, then they’d be getting clobbered repeatedly by fans and media.”
if the bucs finished within one score of ANY NFC East team at the end of last year (as we did with all 3 this year), Raheem would be at Aja popping bottles with his defensive backs. Oh wait, he did that even when we lost by 3+ TDs. any of these results would have been Raheem’s best game on the back end of the season. And let’s not forget we were talking about year 3 of a regime that supposedly drafted well and was a couple bounces from the playoffs a year before, and NOT game 4 of a regime that inherited a demoralized and undercoached 4-12 team and implementing a total system and culture change.
October 4th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
i guess shaun king has to say controversial things to draw listeners into what is now the #3 sports radio station in this market
October 4th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
@buc the saints ….That’s funny and so true.
Schiano will be a solid coach but he is learning on the job so we will have to be patient. The only thing I would question is the conservative style of offense and not figuring out how to use our play-makers. Freeman is not a pocket passer but we are trying to mold him into one. Doug Martin is a change of pace or complimentary back but we have in on all downs. Blount have proven that he can be game changing if given enough opportunity but he gets 3 carries a game. You must score points in the league nowadays. Scoring 16 points a game is too much pressure on any defense and we are not there yet.
October 4th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
I agree with Tommy Boy. If Raheem were still our head coach our defense would have completely given up, and we would be getting blown out. We’ve been in every game even with the lack of offense. I think I would value the players’ that are currently there than I would an ex-player looking in. Though I’m sure he gets an inside scoop as well. I personally think Shaun King is incredibly biased.
I believe in Schiano, and his tactics. The team is disciplined for sure. Yes the defensive choice was horrendous last Sunday, but I think he learns from his mistakes. Give the man a chance before scrutinizing him.
Also, why is he being called a little general? He’s a former linebacker isn’t he? I dare anyone to actually say it to his face. It’s incredible how quickly fans turn on someone because they aren’t winning right away.
October 4th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Good grief…we are 1-3. Would anyone be “shocked” if we go 3-1 over the next quarter season? Calm down.
October 4th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
MattD
“Also, why is he being called a little general?”………Because that’s what whinny little 110X16 Magnifico gassers want to call him.
October 4th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Can we please stop with the “one of three men to lead the Bucs to an NFC Championship game” rhetoric? It really diminishes the accomplishments of the other two.
That 99 team was ALL defense. Trent Dilfer got HURT and King stepped in. They had a bye. They beat the Redskins courtesy of a muffed FG attempt. They put up 6 points against the Rams and held the Greatest Show on Turf to 11.
King had VERY little to do with that season. I think they won in spite of him. Look what happened when they handed him the reigns the next year.
October 4th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
@MarkG
I just glanced at the schedule, there is absolutely no chance that the Bucs win 3 more games over the course of the 2012 season.
I thought they might have a chance against Oakland but then I noticed that it was a road game. Schiano is notoriously bad on the road. 4-17 on the road in his 1st four years in college.
Now that the Little General has given everyone some tape to go on, I really don’t see another win this year. At Rutgers, Greg went downhill in his 2nd year (1-11).
October 4th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
King is right. No one ever made an excuse for Rah. Even when he was in contention to be Coach of the Year some said it was only because of the easy schedule. The next year Rah was given no talent in Free Agency and thus fired. Shiano has brand new toys to play with (WR and OG) and all we can say is we’re competitive. Talk about lowered expectations!
October 4th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
The four game sample is too small to conclude that the bucs have show great improvement, or not improved, or gotten worse.
You cant say “oh give him time” for the bad stuff and then turn around and get all giddy about what is perceived as great improvement in certain area. Because that improvement (which is debatable) has only happened for four games.
And remember other teams havent had much film on Schiano’s schemes. Lets get a season in before we either get suicidal or hold a celebration.
October 4th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Buc Fan# 237 — settle down on the fans bud, I don’t think the Jets had the lowest payroll in the league up until last year for four years straight. When ownership (until last year) basically acted like this team was a red headed stepchild then fans acted accordingly and quit buying the putrid product. Cheapest coach, cheapest GM and cheapest player personnel we had to suffer through for 4 years. The Jets????? I dont think so they were buying every free agent imaginable (not that they were that good) Tampa fans are great fans and when the Bucs can put a competitive team on the field instead of look like clowns they will be back in force. They are coming back now and why because of wins?? No because we are competitive. If you want to go see your team get their arse handed to them with blowout after blowout and players you have never heard of then you arent a fan you are insane.
October 4th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Miguel El Magnifico Says:
I just glanced at the schedule, there is absolutely no chance that the Bucs win 3 more games over the course of the 2012 season.
.
I can pretty much say you are wrong there. They can win about 7 of the remaining games.
You, in your highly negative agenda, discount the 5/12 week rule. It almost always works out that teams with a new staff tend to get things together quicker on defense, and that the offense can take at least 5 weeks to start improving on offense.
Not that I expect you to acknowledge that…because your mind is already made up. You would rather be negative…even if the team wins. Personally? I think you ARE Thomas.
October 4th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
If anyone saw king call the UCF game last week, he looked to be pushing 350
October 4th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
What we do know about King is: He actually PLAYED the game at the highest level, everybody commenting DID NOT! He FORGOT more football than anyone commenting will learn in a LIFETIME from watching! He has been COACHED by at least one Super Bowl winning (the one some of you guys ran out of town just like Raheem), and when he watches a NFL game he can and does see things that even JOE doesn’t because he sees it through the eyes of a NFL Quarterback. So if you debate that he is clueless to knowing what he sees in a coach, remember he saw more than a Pop Warner coach in his career (UNLIKE YOU AND I).
October 4th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
@Horice
Are you suggesting that what Shaun King says should be taken as gospel? You say he’s forgot more football than we have learned and I agree. The problem was he forgot it while he was still playing QB for us. Shaun King always comes out and says outlandish things specifically about the Bucs. Nothing new here. Not even worth listening to his opinion on anything Bucs related.
October 4th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
I,ll say it again Miguel El Estupido do us all a favor and SHUT THE HELL UP.
October 4th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
There’s some truth 2 it, along with a personal vendetta sprinkled in as well. 1-3 shouldn’t be acceptable given the key off-season acquisitions and tha way we’ve won and lost games.
October 5th, 2012 at 8:06 am
King is about as relevant as WDAE. JBF’s insistance on including content from these sources is akin to boarding a leaky boat.
October 5th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Didn’t Shaun King finish his near-hall-of-fame 6-year career with Arizona? Why are we Bucs fans subject to his opinion?
Adam L’s October 4th, 2012 at 3:11 pm comment is right on the money.
November 26th, 2012 at 12:39 am
Shaun, I played with all four years in High school, four plus years of AAU basketball. I figured you’d grow out of that stage of childlike a. behavior. Grow the he’ll up! Shut the hell up and us all a break!!!