“Not So Fast”
October 9th, 2012
That Tampa-2 defense is ancient history. The modern NFL has caught up. You can’t win with that anymore.
Bucs fans know Greg Schiano’s defense is nothing like the ol’ Tampa-2. But the historic Bucs defense does live in Chicago with Lovie Smith and Rod Marinelli.
Joe found it interesting listening to Derrick Brooks on WDAE-AM 620 last week saying “not so fast” to those talking about the death of the Tampa 2 and explaining why it’s not obsolete. The Bears, through five games, have allowed just 14 points a game and are sixth-ranked overall (total yards).
It’s still a mind-blower to Joe that the Bucs and Raheem Morris turned to the Jim Bates Experience, and it’s two-gap defense, when they were nowhere close to having the personnel for it.
October 9th, 2012 at 8:08 am
Gotta have players like Urlacher, Briggs, and Peppers to make it work. We didn’t.
October 9th, 2012 at 8:10 am
Joe, im so glad you brought this up! I was thinking the same thing myself after watching the Bears – Coyboys game.
The Tampa2 is NOT dead at all, other teams still use it not just the Bears. I have been asking my self this exact same question since we moved away from the Tampa2 and tried the Tampa2.0 garbage. If it aint broke DONT fix it. The Tampa2 works, its still working and will continue to work.
October 9th, 2012 at 9:16 am
I must say,after listening to the radio and reading some coments the last few weeks from the people and media that are wanting to get rid of Freeman, im in awwww about the amount of idiots that live here in the bay area. Compare Josh to Eli, Eli sucked the first two- tree years in NY, he didnt start to look good until the superbowl year and even then he looked realy bad at times he just benefited from a GREAT defence and RUNNING game and shot the ball down field wen he got the opportunity. I really do hope the Bucs do not give in to all the morons around here and get rid of Freeman because he will go elseware and be a stud probowler. We’ll end up starting over again and again and we are gona become the Raiders of the East coast. Even if Freeman does’nt tear it up this year you keep him for the long run and comit to develop him in this new system. To him is like learning a new lenguage, it takes time to get it down and feal confident about it, kind of like Eli does NOW on he’s sixth or seventh year in the same system in NY.
October 9th, 2012 at 9:31 am
Tampa 2 is a formidable defense and there is no doubting that. The reason why most teams don’t use it is because it really narrows the personnel you need.
The position players that make or break the defense are extremely rare to come by.
A great pass rushing DT. 10+ sacks a year DE. Fast and mobile linebackers. Hard hitting safety. Not really something you can just throw together.
October 9th, 2012 at 9:38 am
Would be 3-1 had we incorporated the Tampa2 at the end of Skins game, and Giants game, hell we might be 4-0 if we had used the Tampa 2 in late game situations, instead of blitzing like crazy when if was NOT effective. And I think we have the perfect personell to run the Tampa 2.
October 9th, 2012 at 9:39 am
Remember the essential pieces of T-2 are the UT(McCoy), the WLB(David) and the SS(Barron)
October 9th, 2012 at 9:41 am
As a former safety, Urlacher is the perfect Mike LB for Tampa-2.
October 9th, 2012 at 9:54 am
The only problem is the bears use a variety of different coverages and not just the tampa-2. The Tampa-2 is a type of coverage and not a scheme. The reason why the bears are a good defense is because they have the pass rush, peppers, Urlacher, briggs. The same reason why the bucs defense was successful with Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Rice. The players are what makes the tampa-2 great, not the coverage.
October 9th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Never mind me, I’m just quoting Bucyea for emphasis:
“… Would be 3-1 had we incorporated the Tampa2 at the end of Skins game, and Giants game, hell we might be 4-0 if we had used the Tampa 2 in late game situations, instead of blitzing like crazy when if was NOT effective. And I think we have the perfect personnel to run the Tampa 2…”
Ok my duty is done here, carry on…
October 9th, 2012 at 10:26 am
Raheem tried the Tampa 2.2 after he failed with the Jim Bates experiment… Raheem’s defense could not stop the run.
October 9th, 2012 at 10:32 am
@ Buc Fan #237
Paheem’s defense couldn’t stop a stale fart.
October 9th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Hey Pewter…read much?
October 9th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Buc Fan #237
As I recall, the Dungy/Kiffin Tampa 2 had a hard time stopping the run for a few years as well.
Raheem failed because he didn’t coach…to me coaching is teaching. He directed…and he did a poor time of that too.
October 9th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
I agree with bucyea
Although I think we still have a couple areas we need to upgrade, most of the pieces are in place.
October 9th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
A couple of areas?
Dungy’s teams had hard time stopping the run?
When I see 55 I can’t help thinking what low class jerks the Bucs were for cutting him, so the could develop the immortal Geno Hayes.
Way to go rock.
October 9th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Yes…a couple areas.
1 LB to replace Quincy. 1 CB.
A DE opposite Clayborn that can stay healthy. A DT.
That’s all we need now on Defense.
And yes, Dungy had a hard time in the EARLY years stopping the run. That’s why Vick managed to escape so many times early on.
And as far as cutting 55. Fans complained for years that the team was getting old, but every time they let one of those aged players go, the fans got mad. So they decided it was best to use the bandaid method. Quick to lesson the pain.
But let’s face it…switching from the old to new was a public relations nightmare.
October 9th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
The Bucs routinely stopped Vick and in 99 led the league in defense. What early years are you referring to?
October 9th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Everyone is talking about whether or not we have the personnel to run the Tampa 2. However, you are forgetting probably the most important part – do we have a coach to properly coach the Tampa 2. There was a guy here named Monte Kiffin (perhaps some of you have heard of him) that was a huge reason we were successful running it, probably because he pretty much invented it. You can’t just pull coaches off the street who have never coached the Tampa 2 and tell them to coach it. It doesn’t work that way. Chicago runs it because Lovie Smith coached here. We aren’t running the Tampa 2 in Tampa anymore, so you can all just give that up. Even if we tried, the results would be awful. That ship has sailed.
October 9th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
@Eric,
I know we’ve discussed this before, but I love 55 just as much as you. I literally tried to name my son after him, until my wife became a hater and wouldn’t allow it. But there comes a time in every NFL players career that they have to hang it up. It was probably the right time, even though there’s no doubt they could have and should have handled the move better. I know that I certainly didn’t want to see a shell of #55 on a terrible defense, which ultimately would have happened. Instead, he’s still (in my opinion) the greatest Buccaneer of all, and I don’t ever have to remember him as playing poorly. That’s a good thing, don’t you think?
October 9th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
You make good points as usual Hawaiian, but it still pisses me off.
Brooks has got more class, courage and talent in his pinky than those sniveling backstabbing weasels have in their whole body if they live to be a thousand years old.
Can’t let it go……
October 9th, 2012 at 11:13 pm
Unfortunately, the entire NFL is full of sniveling backstabbing weasels. I’ll never forget as a teenager not understanding the way the Dolphins treated Dan Marino, and hating them for it (truth be told I was probably a bigger Dolphins fan than Bucs fan as a kid). The NFL is by far the most cut-throat, back-stabbing, no loyalty league of all the sports. This is what happens when you have a league without guaranteed contracts, which is why I never criticize a player for holding out.
October 10th, 2012 at 12:43 am
Jeopardy question of the day for $1000…. Name the GREAT defense in the 70’s that Tony Dungy not Monte Kiffin took from his 1st Pro coaching job and implemented here in Tampa almost 20 years later and it WORKS…
October 10th, 2012 at 1:31 am
@T.Bass,
I’m assuming you are giving Tony Dungy credit for the Tampa 2, which is false. Dungy did use the Cover 2. There’s some rather big differences between the two, one being the duties of the MLB. Monte Kiffin took Dungy’s Cover 2 and added his wrinkles, thus making it the Tampa 2. A lot of teams can run a cover 2 defense, but can’t run a Tampa 2. Besides, it doesn’t matter, because Dungy isn’t walking through the door. You can’t have coaches coach a different defense than they’ve coached their entire life. As an analogy, Phil Jackson is one of the top 2 NBA coaches of all time. The triangle offense he used (not invented by him, but doesn’t matter for the purpose of this analogy) was highly successful and led to tons of championships. So how come all the NBA teams don’t run the triangle? It’s because the other coaches don’t know it, and certainly couldn’t run it anywhere near as good as Jackson. It would be the same thing if we tried to run the Tampa 2 here with these coaches. It would be an embarrassment to the Tampa 2 (cough cough Raheem Morris).