NFC South Has Worst Pass Rushes
July 12th, 2012
Does QB play in the NFC South benefit from second-rate pass rushes in the division?
Here’s a new theory: NFC South quarterbacks are so successful, in part, because the division is short on pass rushers.
In this NFL Network video, Steve Wyche and Mark Kriegel make this case. Among other takes, Kriegel points out that no NFC South rusher had double-digit sacks last season and ancient John Abraham may be its best rusher.
Wyche suggests things in the division could change this season. Not because the Bucs have loads of young talent on their defensive line, but because new Falcons defensive coordinator Mike Nolan will find a way to dial up pressure on quarterbacks, Wyche said.
It’s an interesting overall premise about the division. Though Joe’s hardly all-in with it, the Bucs have been dreadful at sacking quarterbacks and teams have certainly enjoyed padding their stats against Tampa Bay since the December collapse of 2008.
The video also includes analysis of the alleged next wave of elite pass rushers in the NFL. Adrian Clayborn is not mentioned, nor any other Buccaneer.
July 12th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
That’s a chicken and the egg question, are the QBs stats better playing 6 games against poor pass rush, or are passing rushing stats worse because playing 6 games against QBs that either get rid of the ball extremely quick (Brees and Ryan) or are very difficult to bring down even if you get a hand on them (Netwon and Freeman).
As far as Clayborn becoming an elite pass rusher, I don’t think it will happen. I like AC, and think he’s the best DE and pass rushing threat we have on the Defense, I just see him as a 8-10 sack per year (maybe getting to 12 once) type of player, which is very good, but not to be considered elite for a RDE. That would be elite for a DT or a LDE, but not for the guy rushing the QBs blindside.
That being said, if AC can get 8, and the rest of the D-line get 20-24, plus throw in a couple handfuls from the LBs and DBs, this would be a huge step in the right direction.
July 12th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Hmmm thats not a good outlook on sack totals for the Bucs in 2012. Hopefully Michael Bennett can channel Simeon Rice or just get the dang QB on the ground. I have a feeling that although Millard seemed good, Raheems hairbrain defensive schemes had a little to do with us not getting to many QB’s last year. When all else fails blame Raheem for his terrible coaching and you will usually be right on the money.
July 12th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Donald Penn & Jeremy Truebloods are the worst tandem in the NFL says ProFootballFocus
July 12th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
35-40 sacks not a good outlook? that would put them in the middle of the pack for the NFL, which is not great, but just about any rational Buc fan should be satisfied with that level of improvement over last year.
July 12th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
T in Orlando
I don’t see how you came up with that conclusion; considering, Clayborn was a rookie last year on a beat up defensive line that constantly played from behind and still he managed 7 1/2 sacks.
July 12th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
@ Lion
Clayborn had a very good rookie season, and I look forward to him being a Buc for at least the next 10 years. That being said, an ELITE pass rusher typically has great speed/quickness (Freeny, Rice), great strength (Suh, Haynesworth (when he tried) or a combination of both (Sapp, Randle, White, B Smith).
Clayborn, from what I’ve seen, has good speed, quickness and power, but nothing great. What is great about him is his effort, which combined with his good physical tools equals a very good (not great) pass rusher. I see him as a Kevin Carter or Kyle Vandenbausch (sp?) type player. Very good players for a very long time, but never really considered elite.
Granted, I would be loved to be proved wrong and Clayborn go on to be one of the best DEs to ever play the game, I just don’t think it will happen.
July 12th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
@ T in Orlando
Jared Allen does not fit the bill either. He isn’t strong, fast, or even quick. (13 reps on 225 , and ran a 4.72 – 40 yard dash at the combine). He is just relentless. He goes hard all game which is why he ended up with 20 sacks last year. You don’t have to beat a OT all game to be a sack master just once or twice a game.
Clayborn has that relentless drive which got hime the 7 1/2 sacks last year. All he really have to do is learn some more new moves and he will get improve his sack total greatly. Beating an OT once in a game out 30-40 snaps will amount to a good sack total. Not saying that he will have 20 sack season, but the style he plays is close to Jared Allen.
July 12th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
I’d rather get 8-10 good years over 2-3 amazing years.
July 12th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Bowers will be our best pass rusher for years to come ( baring injury of course). AC is good and a solid all around DE but i don’t see him as a sack master! Still can’t wait to see Watson in his third year. He may even play with his hand in the dirt and finds a way to always harass the opposing QB’s.
July 12th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
@Dini::: If you dislike our Buc’s so much why do you wast your time and our’s also by you constant griping?
July 12th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Having a great defense for 10+ years(before the last three years of course) has unfortunately given us Buc’s fans a tainted aspect on how our defense needs to play. Average just doesn’t cut it.
The only good things about the last three years defense, is that, it has reminded me of how great we were and how we definately should not be on defense!
July 12th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Clayborn could end up being someone like Kyle Vandenbosh. I too do not see a 12+ sacks/yr kind of talent in him, but he certainly will be a solid contributor for years to come.
July 12th, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Welcome back Dini, now behave. Wish we could get Dr Err Grande back.
I think the NFL Network has too much time on it’s hands. All these chicken and the egg questions. Micro analyzing all the data and statistics.
I remember when they always pushed the theory that if Tony Dorsett got 100 yards in a game, the Cowboys would win. In actuality, if the Cowboys were winning, Dorsett would get the carries he needed to get past 100. If they were losing, he wouldn’t get there.
July 12th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Our pass rush sucks? Even with the great Gerald? Who Faine thinks is special? Are we sure that he meant this as a compliment?
Clay will be fine because he’s tough, I think that Bowers is a talent, I am optimistic about the man that is Brian Prife.
As for Gerald, if he can guess the snap count correctly a little more frequently, maybe he can get into the backfield one day!
Probably asking too much from Gerakd but a man can dream,
Would any team in football be interested in Gerald at what DomDom paid him?
July 12th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
And here comes Thomas, just like always. Same ‘ol same ‘ol. You have seriously got to get checked out dude, because you have some serious obsessive issues with GMC. Is this the way you deal with the knowledge that you will never be his one true love?
July 12th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
An analysis that totally misses the real understanding of the problem.
It all starts with run defense. Even 80 yr old arthritic grandmothers could run on the Tampa defense last year. No team can get a sack when the other team isn’t passing. It’s simple as that.
Also if you can’t stop the run, then the amount of 3rd and Long situations is reduced. Those are obvious passing downs allowing a pure pass defense package to be employed… which also leads to more sacks.
And when the opposing team is losing, they will have to pass more the further behind they are and the shorter the time on the clock gets. How many times did Tampa have a large lead last season??
Good thing your ex-Head Coach was “the best” last year. (His own words smh) Can you imagine how many points Tampa would have given up if he was only 3rd best in the league?
July 12th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
@FactsMatter…good point and a very good point about why teams that CAN run can have success in this league. I’m optimistic about our ability to be successful with Doug Martin and Blount running the ball and our WR’s getting open for the passing game. If you can shove the ball down someone’s throat on the ground then you do it all day long. God knows we had it done to us last year. If we could have stopped the run then we could have pinned our ears back and gone after the passer. Look what happened when we shut down Michael Turner. Adrian Clayborn darn near kills Matty Ice and we get to him numerous times. The key is stopping the run.
July 12th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Does anyone remember the fool that engaged me in a pre-2011 debate about the estimate of sacks our 2011 D Line would have?
I have been racking my brain to remember the commenter and his prediction of how dominant our D Line would be in 2011.
Well, we will be 3 and 2 seasons in to DomDom’s brilliant plan to spend 2 first and 2 second round picks on the D Line and from what I am hearing we are being called the worst D Line in thd NFL going into the season.
Thanks, DomDom.
July 12th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Thumbas,
It could have been me, and I have been wrong before because my blind love for the team. I don’t really remember though, but if you want to refresh your rant, please, by all means, do.
I think Clayborn is a total stud, and it is really too bad Bowers got injured. This team has just been plagued with injuries since they won the Super Bowl. Price, I don’t know if he’ll ever play again, but I hope so. I’m still pretty optimistic about the coming season.
The real Florida Rockstar is…………………….. Marco Rubio.
July 12th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
I’m pretty sure Brees plays well outside NFC South. Dismantled the Giants if I recall.
Not sure the premise holds true.
As a matter of fact, if Raheem can point to one succes it would be his defense playing some good football vs. NO. (sometimes)
Some of our guys were designed for Monte’s defense which hasn’t worked worth a damn without Monte. The more time that passes its clearer how truly great he was.
July 13th, 2012 at 4:44 am
@Eric
FYI – Bad example. Saints didnt face the Blackburn Giants. He was hired the day after their game because the Giants had no rush defense nor pass defense pressure.
And Tampa’s last two victories over New Orleans were not normal games. One was a game where NO pulled their starters to rest for the playoffs so the win was meaningless. And the other, their head coach was injured so he couldn’t call the plays. Payton makes a major difference to their offense. Flukes aren’t success.
@Thomas Injuries and poor technique coaching and poor defensive schemes are NOT the GMs fault. Especially when this GM did not hire Raheem. That was a Glazer hire. It’s been since addressed and fixed.
The DL should be far from the worst in the league.
—
The whole premise is bogus. If you look at defensive pressures on QBs throughout the division, Brees was at #12 with 174. Eli was #1 at 244 but #2 was Cam at 208 with Josh at #3 with 204.
Just some QBs are better at avoiding sacks than others. And all the NFC South QBs were in the top 12 of avoiding sacks. The DLs in the South should have less sack totals comparitively.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/
The Bucs totals should rise just by forcing more pass plays and stopping the run. The defense will be much improved even if no one player gets double digits in sacks.
July 13th, 2012 at 8:07 am
@FactsMatter,
You were rolling along pretty good there until you committed the mistake we all make – you abandoned the facts and went to the faraway land of opinion or better said pure conjecture when you suggest that the last two victories over New Orleans were not normal.
All games are normal games, just circumstances may be different. As I recall, when NO pulled their starters, they were already being soundly whipped by the Bucs. By your definition, all NO games this year will not be normal because Payton will not be there to call the plays.
When a coach or star player is injured or suspended or a starting QB is taken out in the 2nd half or a Hail Mary pass is deflected and caught in the end zone for the win are all facets of the game, not abnormalities.
You’re right flukes aren’t success because there are no flukes – they’re only wins or losses. On one thing we can definitely agree – Facts really do Matter!
July 13th, 2012 at 8:11 am
C’mon now give Rah a smidgen of credit, his team split with NO every season and beat them twice in the Big Easy.
He had a good game plan vs. Brees. Likely leftover from Monte, but good.
July 13th, 2012 at 9:25 am
@Macabee How many games in the NFL are there where the Head Coach goes down unexpectedly? Especially a Head Coach who calls the offensive plays? It’s a fluke game.
This is a comparison of Apples to Apples. You can’t praise Rah’s Defensive Playcalling unless you point out that it wasn’t against the normal Payton Offensive Playcalling.
“As I recall, when NO pulled their starters, they were already being soundly whipped by the Bucs.”
Your recollection is faulty.
Tampa was leading 20-13 when Freeman passed to Blount who fumbled and NO recovered at the Tampa 37 with 9:17 remaining in the game.
Daniel was the quarterback for the series that went 3 and out.
If NO cared about winning that game, there is no way Brees and all the other starters don’t play that series.
Benching your starters down by a touchdown 35 yards from the goal line is not being soundly whipped.
NO had nothing to play for that game. Their playoff seeding was already set. Again – not a normal game.
Yes, NO games this will not be normal compared to previous seasons. And that’s a good thing.
July 13th, 2012 at 10:03 am
Fox says he did not pull players and they were trying to win. He also said something about injuries from the Bucs game hurt them in the play offs…no doubt Morris had to go, but why are we even sytill talking about it.
July 13th, 2012 at 10:20 am
@Eric…I’m willing to say Rah had a good game plan against N.O. and against Atlanta up until our horrible 10 game slide into oblivion. We should have beat Atlanta twice in 2010 and we split with them last year. Remembering the game we beat Atlanta lets me know we can have a very good defense when the team is healthy and executing properly. If McCoy and Price are healthy we will have the best D-line in our division.