K2 Truth Session Raises Thoughts, Questions
June 16th, 2012
Check the post below this one if you haven’t experienced the “Real Sh*t” venting by former Bucs TE Kellen Winslow, Jr. that Joe posted late last night. Winslow, while completely relaxed and thoughtful, essentially said he couldn’t stand the New Schiano Order because the coach is too serious and Winslow couldn’t joke around and have a good time at practice. (This from the guy who can’t participate fully and/or regularly in most practices.)
Therefore Winslow passed on OTA practices and made it known he was disinterested in being a Buccaneer. What a teammate!
This has many thoughts swirling in Joe’s head:
1. With an attitude like that, what kind of cancer at any point was Winslow for workaholic Josh Freeman?
2. Given the baggage Winslow brought to Tampa Bay, did Mark Dominik err in trading away a second round pick for him? Previously, Joe made the argument that Winslow wasn’t a bad deal because he was a key figure/target in Freeman’s development. That’s still true, but Winslow may have had more downside than previously thought.
3. How many other current Buccaneers can’t stand the New Schiano Order?
4. As Jeff Darlington astutely wrote recently on NFL.com, Schiano’s demanding ways mean players will have to see results relatively quickly or there could be a mutiny or they could no longer buy in. What might the timing/threshold of that be?
5. Clearly, Schiano did Winslow a favor by not commenting to media on Winslow’s departure. Schiano took heat from on that from many scribes, but he might have built some serious trust points among the Bucs who knew of Winslow’s attitude/deal. And now everyBuccaneer knows Winslow was too much of a mental midget to handle life under the New Schiano Order.
June 16th, 2012 at 9:36 am
“Winslow, while completely relaxed and thoughtful, essentially said he couldn’t stand the New Schiano Order because the coach is too serious and Winslow couldn’t joke around and have a good time at practice. (This from the guy who can’t participate fully and/or regularly in most practices.)”
This says it all. The man did not practice in the first place, was Key-like self centered and wanted different rules applied in his case.
No way, no how, good bye and good riddance.
June 16th, 2012 at 9:52 am
Liked that sentence too Joe.
June 16th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Joe, I am surprised that just now that you are questioning Win-slow. Interjection from Joe. This is hardly the first time Joe has questioned Winslow. In fact, Joe was the only one to report and discuss how Winslow visibly pouted in the seconds following a Bucs touchdown in 2011. Check the archives. —Joe
answer 1.) he was a cancer in Cleveland, then rewarded by the Bucs to become the highest paid TE in that time.
2.) it was a waste of second round pick, he was already declining in health, could not practice with a young QB who needed practice and timing. Then to watch Atlanta get a better TE for the same price. ( But this has not been the first high draft pick that Dominik has wasted.)
3.) obviously any that don’t care about the team and more about themselves. But some already knew that about Win-slow.
4.) should be a while, after last regime, this team is used to losing.
5.)How about all the years that Winslow was touted as a leader, while collecting checks and taking the whole preseason’s off. I hope some of the Fans learned that stat leaders on teams the finished last, second to last and last in their divisions means nothing. Just like the Bucs could have made Lumking the leading rusher if they kept feeding plays to him. That does not make a team though. and the last 3 years we did not have a team.
June 16th, 2012 at 9:59 am
It looks like nothing more than the argument of “who broke up with who?”. Winslow is a punkass who expects a team where the coaches work for the players and not the other way around. Let’s see how long he enjoys riding the pine before he makes DJing his full-time gig. Judging on the stories of many players losing weight and a general sense of urgency, it looks like the “buying in” has already begun. It will be interesting to see who the new nail sticking out will be before they get hammered down, as Winslow won’t be the last.
June 16th, 2012 at 10:18 am
Joe, great article! Some thoughts, I believe Winslow thought that he was his father and was already in the HOF. If he hadn’t ridden Bikes, he might of made it because his attitude might have been different because he could have done all of the things the other players did and he couldn’t. So, I think he didn’t participate because he couldn’t and did not want to be shown up because he was to be the “Star”. I don’t think whoever greenlighted him, didn’t know his attitude problem and that is why he was and I think, still is a cancer.
As for the players buying in, I think you will see a lot of players cut/released/traded that do not buy in and they will be replaced by ones that do. The “G’s” don’t have cash flow problems any more and with the talk of an IPO for Manchester United, they will have even more cash. The inmates will no longer run the place.
You have seen the meshing of all so far and I would be interested in your thoughts about what is happening and would happen. You must have seen the difference in the locker room already and unless they are keeping you ( and all the other reporters) in the dark and feeding you BS, you must have ideas. If you can’t say because of confidentiality, say so.
June 16th, 2012 at 10:45 am
This guy never grew up. He’s that spoiled punk kid who always got everything he wanted and never followed anyone’s rules but his own.
The part I dont understand is how Pete Carroll expects to get cooperation from this clown. Then again Carroll is the moron who thought Tavaris Jackson could be a starting QB. I think I’d kill myself if I was a Seahawks fan
June 16th, 2012 at 11:10 am
“Winslow may have had more downside than previously thought”
Only unobservant morons like “joe” didn’t see all the downside. Quite acting like K2’s comments are some eye-opening revelation…
Dear Feel, insulting Joe is not permitted here. Also, just because Joe writes “may have had more downside” doesn’t mean that other stuff wasn’t seen previously. That’s a big lead. And K2’s comments, from a guy that never lashed out in the media locally and typically keeps to himself are eye-opening in that they were spoken. –Joe
June 16th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Excellent questions Joe, but I think the answer to number two is obvious.
As for Schiano this kinda thing might be what is expected when you pluck a guy from Rutgers to be your head coach and master.
Winslow is a jerk, bet the high school approach won’t work. Could be Josh McDaniel 2.0.
As for free I can only imagine what he and K-2 discussed behind closed doors leading to his heap of praise for Kellen on local radio.
And didn’t Greg go out of his way to praise the back up? And some camp reports have free strugling and frustrated.
Well see. Could be epic disaster.
June 16th, 2012 at 11:24 am
K2 said the wrong person was fired. He could only be talking about Dom…
June 16th, 2012 at 11:27 am
The Dallas Clark move went from a lateral move to a major upgrade in my opinion. If he can stay healthy, he will do so much more for this team then Winslow ever could have. Clark is a team-first leader who will actually participate in practice. He won’t bitch at Free about not getting the ball and can’t possibly be any worse of a blocker than Winslow. Great move Dom!
June 16th, 2012 at 11:35 am
i am glad we got rid of that lazy trash and raheem was not a coach but a friend that let all players slack off.. good call on getting rid of him too
June 16th, 2012 at 11:45 am
K2 has talent however his work ethics are horrible we did the right thing by cutting him loose via trade. We need a change at One Buc and that’s what Shiano is doing Go Bucs
June 16th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Winslow said they fired the wrong person. Who should they fire???? The whole team quite on Rah (a players coach). Winslow wanted Rah back so the whole team could go out drinking with the coach after each of the 16 losses they would have had next year.
A football team is like a family. The coach is the father…the players the children. You have father schiano this year. Last year you had children led by children. Did not work in “Lord of the Flies”. Did not work last year.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Well, F**k you too, Winslow!
June 16th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Wow. He just couldn’t keep his mouth shut – didn’t he notice that Schiano took the high road and even took a lot of crap from the press for not airing the dirty laundry in public?
The positive take away from this, for me anyway, is that it reinforces what an honorable and principled man Schiano is. He is a real “player’s coach” – push them toward EXCELLENCE, and do not betray them by defenestrating individuals in front of the world.
Something bothering me, though, is this cult of personality that Raheem seems to have fostered around himself. I remember once, when I was a sixth grader away for our pre-graduation camp, the “counsellor” my group had was this really cool, laid-back, anything goes high schooler who simply talked to and treated us like equals. We loved him. But he said way too much to us, and the staff fired him. We practically went on hunger strike, protesting the injustice, refusing to accept our replacement. Eventually we settled down, but our minds had been effectively warped.
I hear a lot of the guys from the Raheem era gracefully accepting the New Regime in public, working hard, and I’m glad of it. I just hope they are ready for a rocky road ahead. Freeman, for instance, may wind up having a lot of problems on the field. That could get tense, to say the least.
I don’t expect playoffs next year. I just hope things do not get tense. Seeing everyone on board, on the same page, confident and developing identities based on a striving for excellence on both sides of the ball – that will be plenty.
I’m happy Winslow will not get the chance to be a part of that.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
I’ve always felt that Schiano did more to endear himself to this young Bucs Team by not giving into the media’s questions (pressing him for some reasons/dirt on Winslow being traded) & I couldn’t care less about all that ‘whining’ Ira Kaufman was doing over Schiano’s answers / non-answers on the subject.
These Bucs ‘probably’ registered that Schiano can be trusted & does have their best interests at heart, that he acres & will not throw them under the bus some day. That’s my speculation anyway.
So I agree with point #5 wholeheartedly.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
At this stage Dallas Clark is faster, creates more separation, runs sharper routes and is a great teammate. And he doesn’t need practices off. You wouldn’t be able to say this earlier in Winslow’s career, but at this point this is nothing but an upgrade for the Bucs in every single aspect. Good move.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
@Eric
You’re unwavering support of K2 was an “epic disaster”.
Surprised fellow posters are giving you a pass on this one.
And what has become of Capt. Tim? Anyone?
June 16th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
“Only unobservant morons like “joe” didn’t see all the downside. Quite acting like K2′s comments are some eye-opening revelation…”
You DO know this is Joe’s site, Right ? If I were Joe, I’d block you, for that alone. A little respect would seem to be in order, if only to preserve access for commenting. Kind’a Kinslow-esque to bite the hand that feeds you, like that.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
I totally give Eric a pass on K2, because I supported Raheem which was a disaster on a much broader scale. As for Schiano, I am 100% behind him unitl he provides many reasons not to support him. Every comment I have read on any website from Rutgers’ fans or people that follow the team in that area, have all been positive. They loved Schiano and what he did with that program. The 4-10 Bucs needed to get with the program and hopefully those that won’t buy in will be shown the door.
K2 and primi’s like him need to understand that it is a job, that pays you handsomely, and to keep that job you have to follow orders. Real Soldiers follow orders. If says get on the line, get on the line, and then feel lucky, chump. K2 should do very well DJ-ing kids birthday parties and proms for many years to come, with little wear on his crippled up knees.
June 16th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
4-12 haha, I need quit before things really go awry.
June 16th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
@Eric your not a real Bucs fan if you think this is going to be an “epic disaster.” You might just be hoping for that so you can say you were right and we were wrong. Get the f*** outta here.
June 16th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Hi. My name is Kellen Winslow, and my butt hurts.
June 16th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Quote from PR:“Everyone has bought in,” Penn said. “And that is something Coach Schiano said when he first got here was that the sooner we buy in the sooner we will start winning. And I think everyone is buying in. No one likes losing. Last year was real tough on everybody. Losing that many games at the end it was tough, real tough. I don’t think anyone in that locker room wants that feeling again. I definitely don’t.
“I bought in when I first met with coach Schiano when he first got here. I was already bought in. I want to win. Everybody in that locker room knows what they put out last year wasn’t as good as it should have been. We were hoping Rah [Raheem Morris] was going to be here to do it with him but that’s part of the game, it has changed with Coach Schiano coming in. I was already bought in coming into this offseason. I wanted to get stronger. I was kind of excited with the moves we made. I kind of want the season to start right now.”
June 16th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
I once was speaking to the pitching coach for the Texas Rangers who told me that you have to be very careful how you talk to players. He told me that when he seemingly insulted a pitcher once, the player started crying. In a matter of minutes the players agent was screaming at him on his cell phone. He was fired after that year.
He was an old school pitcher from the 1960’s. The game had changed for him.
You can’t fire every player who doesn’t toe the line. If you lose the locker room, you lose your job.
I’m beginning to see some disturbing signals coming from this team, I’m hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. I just hope its not another Ray Perkins that we’re seeing.
June 16th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
@miguel how do you explain Bellicheck, Parcells, success in the NFL? You and Eric need to get a room.
June 16th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
stop editing ppl post..crazy right wing nut..joe the hoe
June 16th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Here ya go Miguel/Eric: http://nflsoup.com/?p=26771
June 16th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
“crazy right wing nut”
haha, I resemble that.
Hey Miguel, I know I lose from time to time, but guys like you live for political correctness and have NO BALLS!
Wake up Son, and smell the Coffee!
Hey Joe, Bro Hugs All Around.
June 16th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Why are you guys so mad at K2?
He is merely reiterating what you guys were always saying about rah.
Players loved him. They all played hard….etc.
June 16th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
I don’t need to explain Bellicheat or Parcells, maybe you don’t understand their coaching perspectives. Bellicheat seems like a hard ass, but he really doesn’t share any inside knowledge. He might have been a great poker player with the hoodie and all. Some people who have played for him say that he is the funniest man they have ever met. It appears to me that he is a football genius and a leader of men.
I don’t know anything about Parcells except he has had mixed success.
I thought Spurrier would be the greatest professional coach in history, but I was wrong. I think the players would have took a bullet for him but he was not able to make the proper adjustments from college to the pro game.
I think Jon Gruden would have made the greatest college coach in history because the young players would completely buy into his system and pound that rock. Then would graduate before they became jaded.
Jon Gruden completely lost the locker room after his Super Bowl winning year. How could that be? The Bucs had never been to the SB before and don’t players want to win? He was selfish and would not share the truth.
Professional athletes want to be treated like men. They want to be told the truth, face to face. Some players can be kicked in the ass, you can slap them in the head, you can question their manhood and they will put out 100% for you. Other players have to be fed compliments, you have to build their egos and they will play lights out for you. Other players will respond to jokes, stories, and you put your arm around them like they were your son. Some players are so complex, that you might not ever find their trigger. Some players play with pride that’s derived from the size of their paycheck. Some players play best out of fear, fear that they might lose that sizable paycheck.
Tommy Lasorda once got the very best out of a meek, wimpy pitcher named Orel Herchiser by nick naming him Bulldog. He was the antithesis of that name but he played his heart out for his coach.
There are over 75 personalities on a professional football team, maybe 25 different personality types. Maybe, 5 players play best with extreme simple minded discipline. That leaves a whole lot of people who don’t respond well to that direction. Ray Perkins anyone?
June 16th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Erica….must be a women. It seems to always be that time of the month.
June 16th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
It just goes to show, the coach shouldn’t be friends with the players.
June 16th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Coaches coach and players play. Rahs record speaks for itself and his way is not the right way. Schiano is doing what he believes is right which is trying to become Super bowl champs. The players have already bought in so why cant you Erica or Miguelita. You guys want to be the negative nancys and if Schiano fails pound your chest and say you were right and we were wrong which a fan isnt supposed to do. TBA is the way and kellen stood for neither which is why his selfish ass was shipped straight outta here. So TBA OR GTFO! Go Bucs!!
June 16th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Good old Mr. Grandee of the third world, offering his smoke addled “thoughts” to us mere mortals who actually live here and go to the games he rambles about.
Too bad Erica and 2.whatever can’t join him in Honduras, wishing for Lawyers, Guns and Money and getting the clam skitters instead.
June 16th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Hemp is eaten like any normal medicine, it has cured my diabetes type 2 and cancer. Why would I smoke my medicine. Like fruit or vegetables, it has enzymes that are very beneficial and lose their effectiveness after heating to 184 degrees fahrenheit. You get no higher from eating hemp than eating raw spinach which I do daily as well.
I do have a weakness for a certain Cabernet Sauvignon in which I will partake this evening after my 3 hour walk through the mountains. Don’t pay any attention to anything I might post after 11:00 PM EST, I sometimes quote Shakespeare when I do. I’m glad Joe is tolerant of weekend imbibing.
When people are poisoned by chemotherapy or radiation, they usually starve to death. Smoking hemp brings back their appetite and returns their will to live. I was never stupid enough to participate in those Voodoo cures and never had to smoke my medicine. None the less, I would probably fail any drug test given to NFL players. Big deal, I can still type cogent thoughts on my keyboard, which many of you can not.
@Clayburn TBA OR GTFO!
@Garv Too bad Erica and 2.whatever can’t join him in Honduras, wishing for Lawyers, Guns and Money and getting the clam skitters instead.
You know no more about my life and the “Third World” than you know about what really goes on at Buc’s Palace or the inner workings of Bill Bellichek. The Little General or Joe leave us little hints about what really happens and you guys imagine the rest.
Schiano fires one of his best receivers because of a failure to communicate and you extrapolate that to a Super Bowl moment.
The Bucs are in the middle of a very long losing streak and you guys are talking playoffs. PLAYOFFS???
June 16th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
I fail to see how anything you’ve said corrulates to Schiano and Winslow. Winslow admitted with his own mouth he did not want to practice the way Schiano wanted him to practice. Which is odd considering he never attended a single OTA to begin with which tells me he had something against Schiano from the get go… I dont know maybe it was because he didnt want to bust his ass like everyone else… those types of players you you send packing right away no matter what type of coach you are… you can try to spew it however you want but reality is the Bucs are now better off without that lazy selfish bum.
June 16th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Erica and miguelita obviously have not played team sports before so they wouldn’t know what we are talking about.
June 16th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Delusions of grandeur are delusions of grandeur whether applied to Raheem Morris or Greg schiano.
June 16th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
All I can say is that I for one is glad we have the coach we do and I look forward to training camp and see how the players come back in and play in pads. I believe it will say a lot as to how the players really feel about the new system and who has and who has not bought in. GO BUCKS !!
June 16th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
LOL at “Dr” Grandee of the Insipid Islands.
Just stay down there with your mystical “cures” and foggy brain.
Perhaps Erica and 2.whatever will join you soon. Will Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner make an even fourth for your pity party? If only…….LOL
June 16th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Eric..the Seahawks still have room on their bandwagon if you want to jump on with your favorite player. You seem to be wanting Schiano to fail so why not join K2?
…all of those Bucs losing seasons have had their effect on some people…sorry buddy…someone needs a hug!
June 16th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
As i said before Miguel Grande = Boca Grande.
June 16th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
For a guy that couldn’t run routes properly (ran into his own players). Needed to push off to gain separation (constantly penalized). Always complained and was a Me Me type of guy. Here’s one for you Winslow… you’re a F*****G Loser Arsehole. He has all the qualities of an overpaid loser and he’ll fail.
June 16th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
Heading to the Seattle blog to tell them what a piece of S**T they signed.