Trade Of Kellen Winslow No Loss
May 23rd, 2012
Some Bucs fans are still scratching their heads over the Bucs quickly unloading lightning rod tight end Kellen Winslow. Even Peter King was distracted from kvetching about scones to call out Bucs coach Greg Schiano for being a control freak for making such a move.
Alan Dell is of a different mind. The Bradenton Herald columnist believed Winslow was only a good player in Winslow’s mind and that K2 was grossly overrated.
Winslow’s ego shielded him from reality.
He wasn’t one of the Bucs’ best players, and he didn’t get a ticket out of town because he wasn’t at an OTA. In Winslow you had a guy with a bum knee who didn’t like to practice or block and demanded the ball. This is not the kind of guy you want around all those young, impressionable receivers.
The Bucs got a conditional seventh-round pick for Winslow, which is about his worth these days.
Dell also goes on to point out how Winslow led all Bucs receivers in penalties with seven, many offensive pass interference, partly because he could no longer get separation like he once did.
Joe found a more telling stat from the football nerds at ProFootballFocus.com. Of Josh Freeman’s 22 interceptions last year, nine of the interceptions Winslow was the intended target.
That pretty much documents just how often Freeman was forcing passes to Winslow, mostly because Winslow demanded it.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Completely agree. You have to be unselfish in your assignments to be successful as a team. Block when you’re not good or don’t want to, run your hardest to sell a route when you know you’re the decoy, and not demand the football yet make the most out of when your number is called upon.
We’re better off in the long run.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Good article. I also totally agree.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:14 pm
If all that is true, it leads to the inescapable conclusion that trading for him was a huge mistake to begin with.
Not sure i follow the interceptions argument. Guys were jumping his routes? Or he demanded throws, Free obliged, and got picked? Thats K2’s fault?
Well see how it works with Clark. IMO it isnt an upgrade but a downgrade.
75 catches and 700+ yards leaves a hole in our offense, and hurts the ability to fully use Jackson.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:15 pm
JF was forcing him passes b/c Winslow was his only reliable receiver on a team that sucked horribly. The other receivers weren’t getting open, weren’t catching, the Oline was horrendous. If I were the only person on the team catching balls, I’d demand the ball, too.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Oh Lord, please Eric, quit beating a dead horse. The man has been traded and you do not approve. We get it. But you know what dude? The Buccaneers don’t give a rats ass about your opinion. Nor does anyone else. Move on.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Free threw 22 INT’s last year.
Only 6 in 2010.
WInslow had almost identical stats the two years. But its his fault that Free had more pics in 2011?
Sorry, makes no sense. Perhaps you should point the finger at other members of the offense (Williams) who had major drop offs in performance.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:41 pm
I’m with Eric on this one. We should’ve kept our best receiver from the last three years(if we’re going to replace him with an older also-injury-prone player).
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Clark may not be as young or as productive, but he is 10 times the teamate and is exactly what the Bucs need to bring in a new attitude and work ethic. Besides the fact remains that Dallas Clark is not that bad himself. He still has good knee’s and can catch. He’ll play a huge part in keeping the chains moving this year.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:52 pm
@Genocide…thats completely overlooking the VJax acquisition, which I’m sure will more than make up for any loss from KW’s departure…and I’m feeling DClark was brought in to be a veteran presence for our young tight ends group, which KW was NOT.
May 23rd, 2012 at 1:58 pm
9 of 22? Good to know. That’s very interesting.
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Everyone please say the following, with hopes that Eric will finally stop saying it: Getting Winslow was a bad trade. Dominik made a mistake.
Seriously Thomas, I mean Eric, how many more times are you going to post the same thing?
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 pm
I dont think it was a bad trade. Winslow had a couple of productive years here. If anything it was a bad contract and in the end Winslows poor “Me” attitude got him shipped out of town.
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 pm
@Joe,is there something wrong with ur e-mail?
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:29 pm
So Winslow was dumb enough to force passes. He threw them. What dumba$$ forced threw the other 13?? Well at least this proves the point. FREEMAN has NO BRAIN of his own. Everyone else forces him to throw picks. So as usual some people continue to make excuses for Freeman. Our master of offense who makes no mistakes.
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Joe here,
@Mbaby — possibly, but Joe doesn’t think so.
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Whuda. Cuda, Shuda,
Why are you discussing the merits of IF?
He’s gone, its a done deal. Focus on today, not yesterday.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Clark will make everyone around him better. That’s what leaders do. Winslow made everyone around him worse. That’s what selfish players do. No wonder Williams’ game suffered last year. Kudos to Schiano and Dom for making this very smart move. Feels like a cool breeze on a hot day. Life just got better at OBP.
Dom may have made some mistakes in signing Winslow, Black and a couple of others, but even GM’s have a learning curve. He’s also pulled off some savvy moves on the waver wire (Blount, Bennet) and the latest master moves in the 2012 draft. It’s obvious Dom has gotten better every year. The future is bright.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:18 pm
@Eric:
Bought a used car once and it was great for a couple of years and then I traded it another older used car and it performed better than the previous one.
Catch my drift Eric?
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:27 pm
A lot are pointing out that K2 led the team in receiving in ’11 as the argument for keeping him. If those stats meant 90 rec, 1200 yds, and 10 TDs then I might agree with that. He had as many fumbles as TD’s (2), and was middle of the pack among TE’s when it comes to rcvg yards and YPC. Heck, he probably should have had better stats since we were always behind by 2 or 3 TD’s and needing to throw to get back in the game.
Bottom line is despite his name recognition (and what we gave up for him), he’s truly not an elite TE. Add the fact that he doesn’t block well, is on borrowed time with those knees, and doesn’t bring positive intagibles to the young TE’s (I don’t have 1st-hand knowledge, but I’m guessing being a DJ in Vegas instead of making OTA’s falls in this category), and I have a tough time seeing the argument that this is such a huge loss.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:29 pm
@Eric
Disagree that it was a bad trade to acquire K2. Completely agree that pointing the finger at Winslow for FREEMAN’s decision making is absurd.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:37 pm
K2 catches will be replaced not by just Stocker and Clark, our offense should look different, like Blount, Martin & Smith out of the backfield catching passes, reminiscent of Alstott and Dunn. Imagine a two back set and all,the running backs being actually used in the passing game, what a concept Ollie couldn’t figure out.
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:08 pm
“He wasn’t one of the Bucs’ best players”
Dell is an idiot for saying that. I challenge him to show me another offensive player other than Freeman who produced as many yards and catches.
And, Joe, the fact that most of Freeman’s interceptions were thrown to Winslow has nothing to do with anything…Freeman THREW MORE to Winslow, so naturally more picks were there.
Because Freeman felt Winslow was the more reliable target. Yes, some picks were Winslow’s fault. There were times he was not running the right routes (lack of practice). But others were Freeman’s fault because he was playing reckless out of desperation last year.
I don’t actually have a problem letting Winslow go…but come on, people. Stop pretending he wasn’t any good. Losing him DID put us in a hole. I’ve been saying for two years that we need to find his replacement. If we had, we would not be settling for “Dallas Clark”.
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Per Yasinkas at ESPN “Over the past four seasons, the only quarterback-receiver tandem that combined for more interceptions when a specific receiver was targeted was Cincinnati’s Carson Palmer and Terrell Owens in 2010.” Says a lot.
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:39 pm
TheDutcher
Uh sorry, but you are wrong again! Mike Williams had more yards(964), 1 less catch(65) and 6 more tds(11) than Win-slow in 2010.
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:44 pm
As a matter of a fact, Williams numbers (1735yds and 14tds) are better than Win-slows (1493yds and 7tds) over the last 2 yrs.
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:55 pm
The guy was a cancer plain and simple. He was inside Freemans head and it showed. Freeman would throw at Winslow if he was triple teamed just to make him happy. That scares me about Freemans psyche but he is young so hopefully thats not such a bad sign. I can’t get these people (Eric) who think how great this guy was . The key word is WAS. His knee issue was well documented. I was at the Texan game one of the worst games I have ever been to. We hung out until Winslow got wide open going down the sideline. Awesome play but nooooooooooo he pushed off. GAME OVER. We left in disgust. The guy is washed up. Lets see what the brilliant Pete Carrol who couldn’t coach the Jets can do with him . Good luck Pete!!
May 23rd, 2012 at 4:59 pm
By the way Schiano is all about reducing turnovers!!! Well done coach, well done. No more pics to K2! Peter King is way off for his reasoning why Schiano got rid of him. The stats speak for themselves. The guy got Freeman to throw 9 freakin interceptions????? I would have just cut the loser but I guess a 7th round pic will do.
May 23rd, 2012 at 5:26 pm
loselow was lazy and would not give up on balls and knock them to the ground it cost us games the last 2 years, he also had way to many 0ffence interferance i am glad they got something for the cancer that he was!
May 23rd, 2012 at 6:11 pm
@eric…you say losing Winslow’s production harms our offense and limits our ability to fully use Jackson. I didn’t realize you go to look at the playbook and see our new offensive scheme. Oh that’s right, I forgot your still stuck on last year…..
May 23rd, 2012 at 6:13 pm
I think the same thing will happen to Freeman that happened to Manning once Shockey was gone.
May 23rd, 2012 at 8:46 pm
“I think the same thing will happen to Freeman that happened to Manning once Shockey was gone.”
Well, it’s at least to be hoped for. Little early to know for sure.
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:00 pm
I read the article today after I got the chance to actually buy a paper and not use me smart phone! The Novelty! It was a good read and made a lot of sense. The article on the Shockey and K2 comparison, with Sullivan being our OC, on JBF, made a ton of sense well. I’m bummed to see him go but Dude, they just sh*tcanned Tanard and K2 doesn’t come to OTAs? Dumb move by a very rich and blessed man. Makes for an interesting off season.
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:18 pm
LMAO. If Coach Schiano is all about cutting down the turnovers he better cut the player that threw 22 ints and also had 9 fumbles. Not saying I wanted to keep Winslow. But how can anyone unless they have a gun to their head be “forced” to throw to anyone. If he can be “forced to throw to someone without the coaches orders, he does not need to be our QB. He was not forced to throw to anyone. He did no recognize what was going on, held the ball to long, and could not make decisions. Plain and simple.
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 pm
I wouldn’t go as far as blaming Winslow alone for those 9 INT’s. I’d say about half of them were Winslow slowng up on routes and Freeman trying to force something that wasn’t there. The other half were predictable redzone plays. It was almost a given that everytime we got close to the goal line that there would be a play called for Woinslow across the middle of the field. About half of those got picked and the other half got tipped or broken up.
He wasn’t a mismatch lined up in the slot anymore, any Safety or LB could cover him last year and bringing him in tight was more of a detriment to any running play call than anything.
Either way, it doesn’t matter. Winslow wasn’t worth that contract anymore and they shipped him off to no mans land for blabbing on the radio about the team’s intentions to release or trade him.
May 24th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Eli Manning progressed to elite status the year Shockey was out and he was no longer being harassed every huddle to throw to him. By your reasoning BucFan20, Eli should have been cut.