Reckless Assumptions Of Schiano’s “Autonomy”
May 27th, 2012
- “Look Rockstar, don’t you read the newspaper? The Times says I’m in charge, one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL. So go fetch me some suncreen and get my draft picks signed.”
Regular readers of JoeBucsFan.com know Joe often will confront the comments of his colleagues and respectfully, and sometimes not so respectfully, disagree.
This is one of those times.
Joe knows his mature colleagues can take it and hold no grudges. And Joe always welcomes his media brethren to blast his opinions. It’s all in the name of good service to the fans.
This brings Joe to the wild take from Stephen Holder of the Tampa Bay Times in today’s edition. Holder tells readers to be sure that Greg Schiano is one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL.
We must assume Schiano’s apparent autonomy was granted by the Glazers when the owners hired him. It also changes significantly the role of GM Mark Dominik, who often had the final say on matters with fired coach Raheem Morris. Now his role seems more of an executor than a decision-maker.
Again, not good or bad, just different.
The Bucs’ model is not typical. Even coaches with the stature of the Giants’ Tom Coughlin, the Packers’ Mike McCarthy and the Chargers’ Norv Turner share the decision-making with general managers.
You can click through above to read Holder’s thin thesis. Frankly, Joe sees no evidence that rockstar general manager Mark Dominik has been iced out of the decision-making process as Holder says we must assume has happened.
Schiano is a more powerful organizational voice than McCarthy, Turner or Coughlin? Sorry, Joe can’t believe Team Glazer would be so reckless to grant Schiano autonomy given his lack of experience at the professional level. That would have been completely foolish.
Certainly Schiano is a powerful voice at One Buc Palace, along with Dominik, Team Glazer and Butch Davis, in his somewhat mysterious role. Joe knows Schiano needs a level of authority to enforce the New Schiano Order, but Joe believes Holder took his assumption in this case way too far.
May 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
If the Glazers had wanted a new GM, wouldn’t they have hired one?
I haven’t been a fan of Holder or the Times for the last 2 years. They have lost a lot of credibility in my book.
I go to JBF and Bucs.com for news these days. I don’t need all the other spinning BS from the news sites.
I also like how the Joes respond to questions and comments. Holder and Stroud are much too good to talk with their readers, which I no longer am.
Hey Joe, you suck. haha
May 27th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
If we Schiano wanted autonomy coming from Rutgers, that would have been the biggest of red flags for the Glazers.
Surely a guy like Schiano knows you’ve got to earn that kind of power.
May 27th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Stopped reading the Times years ago when politics started seeping into my sports page. Not to mention the “End all be all” attitude that roles with most of the local sports writers. Still like Fenelly every now and again. JBF normally takes a common sense approach to reporting Bucks news. Keep up the good work as I use this site for most of my updates especially being around the world and states like I am. Go Bucks!
May 27th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Go Bucs! Damn auto correct .
May 27th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
Holder is just a no talent ass clown and member of the Shaun King and Ian Beckles fraternity of Bucs bashing.
May 27th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
In reference to this “gag-order,” sure that is quite plausible and could come from no one but Schiano himself, but I don’t see how that reduces Dominik’s power.
As far as the personnel moves, it’s tough to say that Dominik wouldn’t have drafted Doug Martin, the consensus 2nd best RB in the draft, given the team’s needs for a passing game-able RB. “Schiano’s guy” or not, the muscle-hamster would have fit the profile no matter who was the coach. Dominik is notorious for drafting team leaders, he pulled off the trade, and Schiano was quoted after the draft pick was made that he “didn’t spend much time with him, but the scouts did.” I guarantee you the scouts have been on Doug Martin, longer than Schiano has been the coach of the bucs.
If making the call to draft a couple late-round draft picks, who project to be capable back-ups this year at best, gives a coach “absolute power” then there must be a lot of scouts, assistant coaches and head coaches in the NFL with “absolute power.”
Yes, Schiano’s personality, coaching style and needs should be catered to, but it would be that way with any new coach. It was fairly apparent after the first mini-camp and OTAs that Winslow wouldn’t fit the new identity of the team, and Tanard Jackson was simply a better body than Larry Asante last season, but not much better. That secondary had to be blown up no matter who became the new bucs coach.
Holder should really check his use of hyperbole before he insinuates that a GM recently given a contract extension has suddenly become nothing more than a paper-pushing administrator. I remember quite vividly that in his introductory press conference, Schiano stated that it would be a joint-effort and each would have equal weight in the decision making process.
So either something changed, and Holder, being the beat writer that he is, should provide such evidence, or he should refrain from pushing his musings and opinions as given fact.
May 27th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
The local beat writers are all are all just awful.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
It’s called “shock value”. Todays “major media” writers have to make stuff up, because they’ve lost, or never had the ability to do the research and investigation and WORK it takes to be a good journalist.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
The Cook must have final say about what ingredients go into his spaghetti sauce.
After all, he is responsible for putting out a good plate of food.
I do think Schiano has power, because he commands respect.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
We Buccaneers fan cannot win for losing. We either put up with National media that pretends to know the team, or local hacks trying to stir things up with crappy writing.
I swear…sometimes I wonder why I even bother reading articles anymore.
Stephen Holder has jumped on board the “let’s find faults” bandwagon with the other local media.
We need to organize a boycott of the times and tribune. Surely, the publishers can find SOMEONE who can write objective, informative material.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Incidentally, him saying Dominick is more of an executive is an assumption, not a fact. Mark Dominick always, always works closely with the head coach. They make decisions together.
Dominick just does not hinder a head coach by forcing him to go his direction. The whole idea of getting a new coach is to get a new way of doing things. Stephen Holder is and idiot.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
BigMacAttack
I agree with you. Personally, I prefer non-opinionated facts to made up news.
May 27th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
If this is the case and I do believe Schiano has broad autonomy, It’s smart politics on Dominiks part. This is not the time in the Bucs rebirth to “see a parade and jump in front of it”. Let Schiano make all the football decisions. If he wins, Dominik is admired and beloved for his part in bringing Schiano on, If he loses it will be due to his own doing and Dominik’s role going forward is to simply go get another one! Brilliant!!
May 27th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Joe,
Check out Holder’s Twitter. Not too flattering.
May 27th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
I must’ve missed something, that was Bucs bashing, I just read that Schiano has a lot to do with assembling the team for a first year coach. No problem with that or article, just more stuff to get readers talking this off season
May 27th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
Raheem’s looseness didn’t earn him any media goodwill and now the locals already have the long knives out for Schiano, probably because he has little time for their speculation and chronic negativity. You seriously can’t win with these grumpy old men. Papers are dying and yet they still don’t get the message.
May 27th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Same crap they used to chop down the Gruden tree…it’s a broadside to put the owners, the GM and the coach on alert, the message from the corrupt and lazy local media:
“we, the media, are REALLY tired of the information lockdown from this new guy, give us some red meat or we’ll burn the ship down to the water line (again)…if you don’t believe we can do it, remember that one guy who won a Super Bowl around here…ONCE? Yeah, he made it difficult on us and we torched him…”
The only thing that needs to happen here – is to fire everyone of the miserable reporters who caused the last firing of a good coach and caused the hiring of a bad one…
After all, seems a small price to pay for real sportswriters? If they want to invent stories, let ’em go work for HuffPo…
May 27th, 2012 at 6:24 pm
To me Holder, King and Mike Freeman [Sorry JT, that’s a bit much. No need to start that up. — Joe]. It is subtle but there imo. I can’t buy that the team gave a college coach from a smaller conference autonomy on decisions over the GM.
May 27th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Joe, in response to your take I seriously doubt it. The way I see it rock star dominik is as much to blame for the win loss record as coach Morris. Maybe the owners have seen enough from their GM to not let him have so much responsibility. Case in point being Butch in the fold as one of the key decision makers. I bet you the good Glazer boys are watching after their invesment this time…and I mean that most positive for all of us, coaches, management and fans. Go Bucs!!
May 27th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
Dallas:
Bingo. If Schiano had this much control, there would be no need for Butch Davis to come in and be a consultant/advisor/assistant head coach.
May 27th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Uh oh Holder called you out on twitter! Have you blocked him yet? Haha
May 27th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
WT-
The media may have had something to do with Gruden’s firing, but he deserved it… however, they had nothing to do with Raheem being hired.
May 27th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Wow! Holder cannot stand having his work questioned! He just threw one hell of a hissy fit on Twitter. I think he’ll be waiting for you on the playground during recess tomorrow Joe.
May 27th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
“So the next time the Bucs make a bold decision, there will be little doubt who pulled the trigger.”
How bad of a metaphor is this? Dominik will be the one “pulling the trigger.” Who tells him to fire the gun, now that might be up for debate! 😉
(who’s the hack now?)
May 27th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
I saw this at while eating at the cafe Caddy and EG own this morning and was LMAO. All I could think of was Holder must have had Beckles and King with him smoking a big one and all wrote this together. What a piece of garbage.
May 27th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
The only authority anyone would give Dom, the 17-31, no playoff, no pro bowler GM is to execute the plans of the decision makers.
Would anyone trust the fool who gave a King’s ransom to Derrick Ward, Mike Nugent, Mike Clayton, Angelo Crowell, Byron Leftwich, Quincy Black? Not to mention the horrible 3 drafts.
Dom is nothing more than a paper pusher.
The last thing on earth Dom resembles is a rock star GM.
Yes – Schiano has all of the football authority – yes the Glazers can veto him, and yes Butch and others weigh in – but Schiano is the CEO.
Thank goodness – Holder is absolutely correct.
May 27th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Holder is in such a pissy mood, that a full 22 hours ago he took offense to a TBT commenter that was AGREEING with him. Someone must be on his man-period….
May 27th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
^ this while
May 27th, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Since Raheem was fired in January, the local media has viewed it as their job to ensure Dominik has survivors guilt. They just chip away at everyone because they’re self-righteous, rightfully miserable, and hold grudges. Manufacturing conflict when they have no news has become their catty mission.
May 27th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Dom has no power. Glad to see Coach made a deal with the Seahawks seeing how nobody else wanted him.
May 27th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
^ Ref. Winslow.
May 27th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Yeah I just read the Holder twitter rants. The guy needs to seriously grow up. If he wants to attack anyone, it should be we, the JoeBucFandom for our comments about his poor attempt at covering the team.
Hey Joe, I really enjoy your “useless” website. I would love to see how Holder’s web numbers compare to yours. I believe the truth is that you’ve been kicking everybody’s @$$ for Buc coverage going on about 3 years now, LOL. Now who’s the “Rockstar” Joe??? When your competition hates you, you are definitely doing something right. And when you have them on the ground, kindly put your foot squarely on their jugular.
May 27th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Stephen Holder is sticking up for T. Jax and K2…..plus Schiano isn’t as media friendly as Raheem was….so he’s just being a BIG BABY.
May 27th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
What is Holders twitter, so I can read his rants ?
I agree with the poster who posted what I initially thought. That since Schiano put the media smackdown in place, some in the media are out to get him.
May 27th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
Joe is really sensitive when it comes to his rockstar. Holder is trying to eat just like you. Don’t knock the hussle man…
May 28th, 2012 at 12:45 am
Seems like the only eating going on is some journalistic cannibalism.
May 28th, 2012 at 1:07 am
Sorry Joe, the story ends up being more about Dominik no longer calling the shots all by himself vs Shiano and or Butch making the decisions nowadays. Why be so quick to insist there is no truth to the idea that Dominik has lost the power to make all of the important calls?
May 28th, 2012 at 1:22 am
Joe here,
@DallasBuc – Joe didn’t insist anything. Joe simply disagrees with the takes that Schiano is one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL and that Dominik’s role has changed and Holder’s comment that “we must assume” Team Glazer granted Schiano some sort of autonomy.
May 28th, 2012 at 3:06 am
I hear ya Joe. Wrong choice of words on my part. However, Holder put it out there and stands by his assertion. After the horror show we witnessed last year and the only man left standing is Dominik, such an assertion does not seem far fetched but rather likely. Where was our rock star GM when the ship was sinking last year? Watching film? My guess is he was retained reluctantly by the Glazers and asked to take a less impactful role after Schiano was hired. Truth is only Dominik, Schiano and the Glazers know for sure and they likely are not telling Holder or anyone else so I suppose the evidence is probably “thin” but does not mean it isn’t true. Makes sense to this fan.
May 28th, 2012 at 8:05 am
Only to those who have some weird obsession with Dom – who has been a disaster so far – is the obvious statement that Schiano makes all key decisions far fetched.
Dom and/or a Glazer admitted something very close around the time he was hired saying something to the effect of the new coach will have a more vital role in roster decisions.
Isn’t obvious that the entire philosophy has changed: 3 expensive veteran free agents, cutting terrible character players, drafting safety and RB in the first round etc. These are un-RahDom like moves, I.e. they make a lot sense.
I wouldn’t trust Dom to assemble my fantasy football roster, the Glazers recognize the same.
May 28th, 2012 at 9:08 am
“Personally, I prefer non-opinionated facts to made up news.”
The purpose of most ‘Columns’ is to present the writers opinion. As such, it never was suposed to be ‘News’ that is presented as “The Truth”. it’s nothing but his opinion. Agree, or not (and I don’t), it never was “News”. I, personally, think that reality is more complex than what Holder presents. The roles of Schiano, Davis, and Dominik are still evolving, & only time will tell how it all settles out. Plus, we’ll probably never know the final results, unless some agreived party starts speaking out of turn, so to speak. The Bucs have alsays run a tight-mouthed ship, & I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Holder just needed a subject fo a column…gotta keep that job. If Sciano wins, he’ll keep his job, if he fails, he’ll be gone… how fast depends on how epic the failure is. As far as Dominik goes, his job depends on how much credit the Glazers give him for that failure. Both gentlemen will be here for 3 years unless the failure is truly epic. Losing 10 in a row was Epic enough to get Rah fired, right after an extension. We can only speculate on what would be needed to get the Glazers to go back on their tendancy to give a coach enough time to show what they can do. So far, the 3 Rah years is the shortest term of any Glazer hired head coach, so I figure Schiano has 3 years, unless we see a repeat of the Leamon Bennett/Richard Williamson level of incompetance. Kinda doubt we’ll see that…but ya never know.
As far as the Media trying to run Schiano or any other coach out of town, I think you give both public opinion AND the media way too much credit for influencing the owners. I suppose SOME of the owners are influenced by them, but I doubt very much so. These Guys are businessmen, first & foremost, and successful ones, at that, with huge Egos almost by definition. My guess is that they are more likely to resist public opinion than give in to it. To suggest that the Glazers are running THEIR team based on what the Holder or Thomas 2.2 say is absurd.
Sorry for the “EPIC’ tale here, I’ll do better, I promise.
May 28th, 2012 at 9:13 am
I am sure Mark Dominick consults with his Coach before making any draft picks, or personnel decisions, why wouldn’t he. I don’t see that kind of egotistical behavior in Mark. I believe he relies on the team concept approach with the staff, but just as a President makes a decision after consulting his cabinet, I believe Dom does the same. You could not convince me that Schiano makes the personnel decisions and that Dominick is some sort of puppet. That is so beyond far-fetched its a joke. I promise you that Mark Dominick is in charge of this football team and everyone that isn’t named Glazer is below him on the organizational chart.
I agree Dom has made some drafting/free agent errors, but he has put together a better football team today than the team he inherited about 3 years ago. With the exception of Derrick Brooks, he has upgraded every position on the field. You can say what you want about Mark Dominick, but he is a very smart man. Talk to him, listen to what he says and how he says it. This guy is 100% in charge of this team, and Stephen Holder is a fool to think otherwise.
May 28th, 2012 at 9:50 am
Fritz50
“As far as the Media trying to run Schiano or any other coach out of town, I think you give both public opinion AND the media way too much credit for influencing the owners. I suppose SOME of the owners are influenced by them, but I doubt very much so.”
Actually, you are mistaken, Fritz. The reporters influence public opinion, which indirectly influence the owners.
For example…Tony Dungy was a very good coach. The local media started saying he could not take the team all the way, and they convinced the public of it. So the owners listened.
For example…local media DID strongly influence public opinion of Gruden by saying how the team was turning on him. They also were the first to say the public had turned on Gruden…which at first was not true, but they repeated it over and over and eventually…more and more of the public bought into it.
Gruden had his faults, so it was an easy thing to accomplish. Gruden was also the unfortunate target of ESPN as a result of how they viewed the method used to release Tony Dungy. From the outset, ESPN had a hate on for the Bucs and all things associated with them. They did during Raheem’s term as well…though it started to lighten a little.
In the case of Raheem Morris, the media turned on him the day he made the “stats are for losers” reference toward a reporter who was quoting stats…and thereby calling the local reporter a loser. From that day forward, he lost the local media. Eventually, Raheem, when face with losses, threw his players under the buss in a press conference, and that’s when the team itself turned on him.
In the case of Greg Schiano, he comes into a situation where the local media has become accustomed to hate-based reporting. Where Raheem Morris pretty much had an open door, Greg Schiano is not allowing the media the same privileges.
In this case, the local media doesn’t want to give up access, so they are throwing temper tantrums.
May 28th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Another point that adds credence to the notion that Schiano is now calling the shots is the dumping of Tanard Jackson and Kellen Winslow. Think about it, Jackson just signed an extension after returning from his huge suspension and then is released having not violated any other rules or laws? Then releasing our most productive offensive player and Dominik’s first and most successful move as GM with the exception of drafting Josh Freeman who by some accounts was more a Glazer backed Morris decision. It adds up now and I no longer blame Dominik for release of Jackson. If the shoe fits…
May 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Not sure of the “one of the most powerful” comments by Holder but I think anyone who doesn’t believe that Dominik is at the very least acting on the behalf of the current coach is being naive.
Jackson was given an extension last year by Dominik and cut this year. Winslow was traded for by Dominik and was a focus of the offense last year and he was traded this year.
The coach referenced power football with shots down the field and the Bucs signed a high end OG and WR in FA plus added a RB who fits the mold in the draft.
All of these moves have the stamp of Schiano while go away from moves made by Dominik.
May 28th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Dude, the Bucs have been trying to land a big left guard since Keydrick Vincent and have been talking about power football, shots down the field and a simplified playbook since Day 1 of Jeff Jagodzinski.
Get a clue.
Jackson’s extension didn’t cost the Bucs anything. That was simply a protect-the-Bucs deal knowing Jackson wouldn’t dare turn it down.
May 28th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Dude…then why did they conveniently wait until Schiano got here to make the move?
Dude…get a clue.
May 28th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Jackson was cut for a failed physical. You cut him before that physical when he had surgery in the offseason and you’re screwed for the money. They waited until the CBA said they could examine TJax
May 28th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
I wasn’t referring to Tjax. Based on the additions and subtractions thus far, you’d have to be completely clueless not to understand what is going on with the Bucs.
As I said, it’s probable that Holder went overboard with the autonomy comment but the Bucs are clearly carrying out Schiano’s vision of the roster and makeup of the team
May 28th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Or the Bucs finally opened up the wallets because they had to and Dominik could be a real GM and buy a left guard instead of Vincent or Ted Larsen, and get a deep threat in Vincent Jackson instead of drafting WR’s. Winslow was an obvious cancer as witnessed by a national TV audience.
May 28th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
That’s right. Nothing could be Dominik’s fault.
May 28th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
dominik has no say no more,an thats a good thing,it was not all morris fault.
May 28th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Get a clue. Players get cut because of “What they put on film”. This is not some Schiano Coaching conspiracy. Tanard was cut because he sucked in the games, quit, and got hurt, on top of all the other substance issues, couldn’t put down the pipe. I believe Raheem saved TJax last season because he was one of his boys. If Tanard could still play at a high level DOM would have kept him. As for K2, he also sucked last season which showed up on film. Combine that with the fact that all of his guaranteed money was already paid, trading him made total sense and saved big money. Rumor is the Bucs had been trying to trade K2 for a while now. These moves would have happened regardless who they hired to coach the team. Both were good moves for the team, business decisions, made by the GM with the knowledge of the HC.
Dom runs the Bucs and is ultimately responsible for personnel and financial decisions. The HC is responsible for getting the most out of those players and win games. It really is that simple
May 28th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
I believe the “perception” to reality was that Dominik held a lot more authority with the Raheem Morris staff. Now he can rely on a much stronger coaching staff and actually be a GM . Holder’s story felt like there was some digs at Shiano IMO. I think the coach is making sure he takes the heat for all decisions..
May 28th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
So it appears that what your saying is that Raheem was running the team and saved Tjax behind yet now that the team has Schiano, Dom is making the moves.
Ok.
May 28th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Not saying that Dom can’t be persuaded one way or the other. Not saying he doesn’t listen or do what the Coach wants. I’m saying the decisions rest with Dom and he has the final say on all personnel………… unless a Glazer was to possibly intervene, hence the chain of command. As for Rah saving TJax, that is like the rest, only my opinion. I don’t believe that Dom would welcome TJax with open arms after totally screwing over his teammates by getting suspended for a year. We all know how Raheem felt about his DB’s, and I believe enough information has been leaked at this point to show that Raheem played favorites with that room.
Does Mark Dominick really strike you as a puppet for anybody? Not me, he strikes me as the leader of the organization by what he says and the way he carries himself. It makes sense that Schiano lobbied hard for the guys he wanted in the Draft, especially the players from WV that he played against.
Riddle me this. If Schiano was calling all the shots, and coming from College with NO draft experience, would have made the trades that were made, at the times they did to get the players coveted? Dom and his staff had studied all those players for a year or more, and those trades were the work of Mark Dominick and probably help from Dennis Hickey. Schiano surely had players he liked and wanted, which apparently they got many of, but Dom calls the shots, in what appears to be a strong team effort of the upper echelon.
May 29th, 2012 at 9:38 am
“For example…local media DID strongly influence public opinion of Gruden by saying how the team was turning on him.”
Mr Dutcher, we’ll have to agree to disagree on both of your pounts. After all, the media pointing it out doesn’t negate the fact that Dungy COULDN’T get the team over the hump. Where is the evidence that the owners responded to the media as opposed to REALLY wanting a SB win, & not seeing Dungy get us there, after several years with a top level defence Heck, it took him a couple years to get one in Indy, even handed a top offence on a platter.
Also, what evidence do you have that thay didn’t just get fed up after Grudens 4 game collapse at the end of his last year ? I know that was the last straw for me. Barring evdince, of some sort, I’ll avoid the media conspiracy theories.