Stephen Jackson To The Bucs?
April 16th, 2012
Popcorn-munching,coffee-slurping, fried chicken-eating, oatmeal-loving, beer-chugging Peter King got heavy into the uncertainty near the top of the 2012 draft today in his must-read Monday Morning Quarterback column on SI.com.
To summarize, King believes the Vikings will take Matt Kalil, though he doesn’t completely rule out them taking Morris Claiborne at No. 3, and King also claims his sources tell him the Browns are deciding between Justin Blackmon and Ryan Tannehill at No. 4.
That’s where it gets interesting for Bucs fans.
5. Jeff Fisher loves Trent Richardson, and the impact of the Rams ending up with the Alabama running back would be huge. First, the Rams would presumably either trade or release Steve Jackson if this happens. I don’t see them paying Jackson $7 million in 2012 to share the job with a player certain to eclipse him soon. And that big number takes some logical teams (Steelers, Giants) out of the running for Jackson. Now, I view this scenario as unlikely anyway, because the Rams simply have to get receiver help for Sam Bradford. But if Justin Blackmon is gone here and Richardson’s still there, he’s logical for the Rams. Of course, Cleveland likes Richardson a lot, and rookie Tampa coach Greg Schiano does too, so I don’t see Richardson making it to six.
That’s intriguing to Joe. Suppose Trent Richardson is there at No. 5 when the Bucs are on the clock. Might the Rams (at No. 6) get nervous and call rockstar general manager Mark Dominik with a trade-up offer so Jeff Fisher can snag Richardson?
If so, Joe could see the Rams offering the Bucs their No. 6 pick and Stephen Jackson (as King above says he would be traded to make room for Richardson) for the Bucs’ No. 5 pick.
That would be pretty a wild offer. The Bucs could then pair Jackson with LeGarrette Blount for a truly lethal, versatile running game and still grab Morris Claiborne at No. 6.
The Bucs have the salary cap room for Jackson. And it’s awfully fun to imagine that backfield.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:38 am
wow if this would happen i would be so happy
April 16th, 2012 at 11:39 am
Or the Bucs could just take Richardson at 5 instead of taking on a big contract and a 29 year old RB with a ton of wear on his tires.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:40 am
Why take an old, injury prone Jackson when you can have Richardson in this scenario?
This makes no sense at all.
If Richardson is there at 5, he’s a Buc. Believe that.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:46 am
@BucfanJeff,
Are you nuts? Jackson’s working on six straight 1000 yards seasons. He was great last year with a team with no receivers playing a backup quarterback. The guy’s an awesome third down back and receiver. He can split with Blount, extend his career and help open up the passing game. The guy’s a Hall of Famer with enough left.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Take TR, then offer Blount to the Packers (A. Rogers gushed about Blount after their game this year, they need a back) for at least a fourth rounder (which we don’t have).
April 16th, 2012 at 11:56 am
Now Im pissed off again …
FLashbacks to the Bucs taking Mike CLayton .. F***III B***H
April 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Point is you’d get jackson and also still have a shot at Claibourne… very unlikely situation but would be awesome for the bucs
April 16th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
This is the 3rd in a series of trades that I’ve heard within the span of a week and all speculative.
First I heard Chicago would like to trade for Richardson and offer Matt Forte who refuses to sign his FT and will only sign a long-term deal. They would also offer a 2nd and a 4th. They pick at #19.
Second, there is Dallas who is offering Felix Jones, a 2nd and a 4th. They pick at # 12.
Now, the Peter King could be trade. OF all of these unlikely scenarios, the Rams would be the most desirable assuming Mo Clairborne was still on the board. I need explain any further. I suspect the Rams are sending up flares to try and draw attention away from Blackmon who they really want.
Oh, I forgot. there’s the Kansas city Jackie Battle trade out there too. There will be at least 4 more trade scenarios before the 26. A lot of fodder for the hardcore poster types.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
@bucfanjeff
Two upgrades in Jackson and Claiborne vs one in Richardson.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
In this scenario of trading for an established back why not try to get an unhappy forte from the bears who is still on the rise vs Jackson who is older and injury prone
April 16th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
My head is spinning with all the trade talk. Considering all of the holes along with the prospect of drafting T-Rich or Claiborne, I’m not sure which way I would go. That said, I can not see us passing on T-Rich if he is available.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
There is no question about Jackson’s ability to catch the ball out of the back field. That would be quite the combo with the two Jackson’s with Blount, Williams & Winslow. Throw in these guys with much improved offensive line and you’ve got some fire power.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
If we’re at 5 and Richardson is there, we take him. If Rams don’t want older Jackson pushing 30 and 225+ pounds, WHY would we want his 7+ million salary, at 30, and KNOWINGLY pass on TRich?!?!! No.
Claiborne, or not….that makes no financial sense, retards our growth with TRich and our OLine for years to come.
We’re taking TRich, because Blount is not nearly the answer, and TRich’s dimensions going forward add to us offensively in options.
2-3 rounds deep of good cover corners, with good DB coaching here, and TRich in the fold, with this scenario coming about, and NO 7+ million dollar salary in the fold.
Bad idea.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
No thanks! I’ll take T.R and find a decent CB latter. Just bcuz Bucs have $$$$$$ doesn’t mean we blow it on an old RB.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
The Forte trade-down idea from the Commish, was a much more sensible scenario, for Bucs future.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
First…no one…and I mean NO ONE…has reliable draft sources at this time of the year…or ever. So King is wrong again.
Second, the Bucs would not take on Stephen Jackson’s salary nor would like his age. Yes, if there were more time, a new salary could make it conditional…but during the draft there isn’t time to work out that sort of thing.
Third…NO ONE TRADES UP ONE PICK. Period. EVER.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
I think this is great, cause RB isn’t a huge need for the Bucs. Claiborne is the best man available for us, and if we can get him AND Jackson, I’d be more than happy.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Watch Trent Richardson against Ole Miss last year and see if you still want Claiborne 1st.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
That would be a great move…would give the Bucs a great complementary RB and Mo Claiborne. I would attempt to either have the Rams throw in their 2nd or 3rd round pick as part of the trade. This would allow us to add 3 potential starters (Claiborne (CB), a LB and a Safety) on a defense that desperately need some ballers in the back 7.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
It’s not Stephen Jackson or Trent Richardson. It’s Stephen Jackson/Morris Claiborne or Trent Richardson. No brainer..
April 16th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
LOL…you people are insane if you believe this would happen.
.
REDDMAN Says:
April 16th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Watch Trent Richardson against Ole Miss last year and see if you still want Claiborne 1st.
.
Honestly, Reddman, Richardson could be the next Barry Sanders and I still would not want him unless Claiborne and Kalil are both off the board.
Because the simple truth is this: the biggest need is at Cornerback. Claiborne may not be the better player overall (he might be), but he is still great and solves an immediate and greater need.
And if Claiborne is gone and Kalil is on the board, replacing Trueblood with him would give us the best Oline in the league, behind which even a retired Eric Rhett could run.
But…if both of those are gone…we should then take Richardson, because he would be levels above anyone else available at our biggest needs.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
If a trade is in the cards for the Bucs, It is the one you will hear about when the Bucs are called to make their selection at pick #5 on April 26! Otherwise , it will be Kalil, Claiborne, or Richardson – all selections I would be happy with!
April 16th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
I should add…I think Dominick would choose Claiborne or Richardson over Kalil, simply because he seems to feel Trueblood is a good enough player.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
@Sam…
“No brainer”. Its TRich age 22 w/more options, 1 year of tread on tires, NO 7+ MILL salary, 8 years of Running ahead–THE ONLY 8 years in RB career that matter (22-30) and with our OLine, or 30 yr old heavy back that’s lost 2 steps and Claiborne. “No brainer”????? The years Jackson has already spent, ARE the only years a RB matters.
Claiborne’s a good cover corner, there’s more of those somewhat close, with TRICH in fold.
“No brainer”..
April 16th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Trent Richardson is not Adrian Peterson. He is not on that level as a pure runner. He’s good but he is no AP or Barry Sanders or Bo Jackson. Again T Rich is a good to very good RB, but you don’t draft a very good running back top 5.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Jackson + Claiborne > Richardson
April 16th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
As the draft gets closer, the talk gets crazier. Geez….
These writers just make stuff up to pass the time.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
@Pete
I gotta agree with you on the unlikely scenario that a team is willing to trade up one spot. They have to be on the really good drugs.
This would make our offense pretty unreal and not send us completely backward in cost. You people do realize what Jackson could do behind this line and not having the wear of being an every down back like he currently is. He won’t last much longer but do we really need him to? Plus we get our guy for the defense anyway. This sounds way way way too good to be true and is.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
I can’t believe so many missed the point…
“Why would we take Jackson when we could have Richardson?”
BECAUSE IT’S NOT JUST JACKSON.
The trade above is Jackson and the #6 which could be Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon.
Now I know I’d rather add Jackson AND Kalil or Jackson AND Claiborne to our roster than just a much hyped but in reality unproven (In the NFL) Richardson.
You just imagine the run game with Kalil, Nicks, Zuttah, Joseph, Penn on the line with Blount AND s.Jackson pounding the rock. How much would that run game open up the passing game for Freeman to V.Jackson/Winslow/Williams?
We would finally have a scary offense.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
In 2006 when the Bucs drafted Michael Clayton while Stephen Jackson was still on the board I was LIVID. I knew that was a horrible, horrible pick the second it was done. I can tell you where I was, what I was wearing and who I was with when that pick went down.
Then I saw on Twitter that Michael Clayton was talking about how great it was to be a Super Bowl champion (because he was on the Giants practice squad or something so technically he got a ring). I hate him so much. He’s done absolutely NOTHING in 6 years and he got a ring.
As much as I would love to have S-Jax on the Bucs (to sort of undo the wrong) it’s like trying to get back with your high school girlfriend when you’re in your 20’s. It just doesn’t work… different people, different places, at a different time.
jvato24… I feel your pain. Will you be at the Michael Clayton Hatred Support Group Meeting on Wednesday night at the community center? They have great donuts.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
You’re working them into a frenzy, Joe!
Page views between now and draft day will be historic.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
I love Jackson. I’m questioning if it’s worth it in the long run. My opinion is I wouldn’t do it. I really think T Rich is THAT good.
If he’s there at 5, BIG if, the Bucs take him. Either way, the odds of us getting Claiborne or T Rich are very high.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
The Scenario is having both Jackson and Claiborne them i’m all in. Jackson still has a good couple years left and remember, he doesn’t have to be a work horse here. He can give valuable knowledge and tutoring to Blount to help grow him into a complete back.
While also shoring up the defense with an Elite CB. Makes sense to me and well worth the thought.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Meh is right, you fill 2 needs and for those of you that say jackson is injury prone that is correct but he will be sharing carries which will make him ok.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
I’ve always liked the notion that drafting the best available player makes the most sense.
Individual players make more plays that have an outcome on the game.
I think this applies here. If they believe Richardson is better than Claiborne, they should draft Richardson, even though the majority believes CB is a bigger need than RB
April 16th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
You know what? I wouldn’t mind the SJ39 move from a value standpoint.
We could probably get 1-2 good-to-great years out of Jackson (14 million over 2 years), he’d be a good veteran leader in the locker room, he’d fix our Blount problem somewhat (better pass pro; slightly better in the passing game) AND we would, conceivably, shore up either the corner or tackle position with an elite prospect (who’d be paid 4.5 million per year over 4 years).
Sounds like good value for one draft pick. The problem that arises is we’d really be pressing up against the cap with Jackson’s contract and would have a tough time upgrading at LB or S in free agency with a big money guy in the near future. We need at least one very good safety and one very good linebacker (if Foster doesn’t become that guy).
In 2-3 years time, we could hand the reins of the offense to Freeman anyway so we can evolve to follow the current Giants model of being a pass-first offense with an elite QB and a running back by committee approach. At that point, we would’ve had an opportunity to acquire another all-around back to replace SJ39 and/or Blount (if he doesn’t develop in the passing game) or just grab a bunch of guys off the scrap heap.
I wouldn’t be terribly broken up if this trade went down.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
SensibleBuc, this could potentially give us Claiborne and Jackson with the first pick, letting us grab a safety AND a linebacker with our 2nd and 3rd rounders.
Being able to fill all those holes is huge.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
I just hope that Dom pulls a rabbit out of his hat, or a golden goose out of his @$$ on Draft Day.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
@ Meh
This is true but I’d think I’d rather have vets on D at this point.
We already rely on SO many kids on D, adding more youth (no matter how talented) doesn’t excite me as much as it did back in 2009…
When Ronde is gone after this year and our eldest statesman on D will be Quincy Black lol
April 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
im thinking if this would happen it would be worth it because it would save us from having to use a draft pick on a RB this year. now we can wait till next year to draft one (at least an early pick).
but with that said i dont like spending $7 million on jackson. gotta remember we dont have the endless supply that we used to. so i guess im saying no dont do it but still draft Mo. im also thinking there will be plenty of veteran RBs cut after the draft. quite possibly Jackson himself. then we get him for cheaper
April 16th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
I think this is so far out there but who knows.. Jackson and Blount could be fantastic with a 3rd down or speed back. If they could do that and get Claiborne I can see passing that up.
The Bucs could possibly trade down again with that pick though also and target cb, or lb
April 16th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
if he signs with us. if i were a veteran RB i would want to run behind carl nicks and davin joseph wouldnt you? and again it will be for much cheaper.
i wouldnt be surprised if we dont pick a RB till really late if at all. sign a cheap but effective veteran to pair with blount and draft a RB early next year.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Joe – damn you for stirring this pot. Now I’m going to be wishing for this. Absolutely love the idea. Jackson would be a great compliment AND could be a great mentor for Blount. It would be huge. Jackson plays the game the right way, and I bet he would LOVE to run behind a real NFL o-line. Unlike what he’s had to do in STL.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Just like the Rams wouldn’t pay $7 million for an old Steven Jackson, why would the Bucs?
The Bucs ain’t dumb (insert joke here). They would want a more tangible asset (like a 3rd rounder moving up one spot high in the draft) and just wait for SJax to get released.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
the Bucs should have grabbed Jackson before they took Clayton, i watched that draft and thought Clayton was a good option but Jackson was the one i wanted more. hind sight is always 20/20 tho. but this trade wont happen, if the “Lambs” want TR then they better trade with the Vikings or Browns cause he wont make it past Tampa, Shiano wants a “Bell Cow” back, not sayin Blount couldnt be that but what if they do pass on him and Blount cant carry the load? we need CB’s and another LB, if they want the #5 pick ill swap it but only if we get Lauranitis (im sure i mis-spelled that one)… BUC IT IM OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 16th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Of all the ‘team x is just going to give away its #1 running back to the bucs for their pick’ bs thats been going around, this is the most ridiculous. Does anybody really think the Rams are going to give Jackson up to move up one effing spot?
April 16th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Why does it seem as if everyone is so against giving Blount the opportunity to learn how to play RB in the NFL with a new and better RB coach? Does everyone seem to forget the wonders that said coach has done with CJ2K and MJD? Both of those backs have had their best years when being coached by Byner. Both of those backs developed into great passing down backs under Byner. Why not maybe, just MAYBE, give Byner a chance to work with Blount who has NEVER had the benefit of an NFL offseason.
You can teach a back to reduce his fumbling issues (Tiki Barber) and you can teach a back how to pass protect better (MJD). One thing you can’t teach are NFL instincts of a quality NFL CB.
Everyone seems to forget the amount of firepower that is in the NFC South. As much as you might not want to admit it, Brees, Newton and Ryan are pretty good QB’s each with pretty good receiving corps. I would rather have a player than can help keep those guys in check over a guy that doesn’t even address and IMMEDIATE need.
Blount can get the job done. At least give him an offseason to show he can do it.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
It’s not about Blount not developing, it’s about the offense having more options then just him which has burned us in the past by keeping junk backs.
Richardson doesn’t solve all the problems either it just gives us more options and a higher ceiling.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
You know the draft is close .. When trade A for B … and sign C and draft D starts rolling around everywhere!!
April 16th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
@princespanky….
No, it HAS been about Blount developing. Every post on Blount (fan and blog) ALWAYS talks about how he needs to DEVELOP into pass protector. Great backs can be found in the later rounds. How often are ELITE CB’s found in the later rounds? Far less frequently than RBs, I would guess.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Darrelle Revis – 1st round
Nnamdi Asomugha – 1st round
Aqib Talib (deny it if you want, but we all know the talent and ability is there) – 1st round
Matt Forte – 2nd round
LeSean McCoy – 2nd round
Arian Foster – UNDRAFTED!!!
Ahmad Bradshaw (most recent RB to win a superbowl) – 7th round
That is the only point that is trying to be made here. Elite RB’s can be found in later rounds, ELITE CB’s are hard to come by and few and far between.
To deny that FACT is just plain ignorant.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Who is Stephen Jackson? Is he the cousin of Rhonde Barber and niece to Mark Alstatt?
April 16th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
@ celly
“How often are ELITE CB’s found in the later rounds? Far less frequently than RBs, I would guess.”
Not really. It’s about the same. You can “find” good players anywhere. Kyle Arrington (formerly our UDFA) led the league in picks. Cortland Finnegan (7th rd) just got a $50 million contract.
Look at the top 10 corners: http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011
Look at the top 10 RBs: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb
April 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
As long as we have Claiborne the rest will sort its self out
April 16th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
As of right now the bucs are 3 deep at corner… Talib may or may not be with us for much longer but he is right now. I would say LB or RB is much more of a need than CB.
No way do you take on that huge of a contract for a almost 30 yr old RB. Thats not good business smarts… and what happened with the “This is a pass first league” excuses? Your wanting to pay an old injury prone RB that kind of money when we could have a better and younger version of him at #5 in Richardson… and cheaper.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
@celly_bwoy
I agree 100%. The defense was historically bad. They need to go CB, LB early. Then draft a complimentary RB in the 3rd. Or later.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
We’re three deep in crappy corners. One is older than most glaciers. One is overpaid for his meager skills. One is about to go to prison. And all three of them are better than Biggers.
April 16th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Dumbest thing Ive ever heard!!! Joe must really be running out of things to talk about. Im positive that the Rams would take their chances
April 16th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Hardly dumb. We walk away with the best running game in football and 10-year cornerback.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Celly,
You named elite CB’s but you did not name 1 elite RB. Good RB’s yes but not great or elite.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
‘IF’ this became possible I would be all for it. Take Jackson and still get Claiborne? Why WOULDN’T you do it?? Jackson would be sharing the load with Blount so it would be less wear and tear than he’s used to and he’s a proven pro bowler.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
@Pete Dutcher,
So you would want us to pass up on a Hall of Fame back, and one of the best of all time, so that we could draft for “need”???? That is unbelievable to me. My favorite non-Buccaneer is Deion Sanders, but I would have pushed him off a cliff for the opportunity to get Barry Sanders. You must have missed all the old Lions vs. Bucs games. This type of philosophy is exactly how you end up with a team with no elite talent, because you only draft for need.
And no, I don’t think Richardson is Barry Sanders, I’m just going off of what Pete said.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Seems we’ve had some pretty good defenses around here in the past and I don’t recall any 1st rnd. corners being on those teams.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
I think this is unlikely.
So far everything the Bucs have done is to make the team competitive in 2 years or so. Having a running back that would expire in 2 years seems counterproductive. It would be smarter to pick up some guy off the streets and coach him up for a couple of years until they need him.
Having only 2 running backs right now is an issue, and an insurance policy for Blount would be a good move. But a $7 million 28y.o. back is not insurance, it is a desperate move to try to complete this year. Just look at the Jets and LaDainian Tomlinson.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
If the Bucs really want Richardson, it’s gonna take more than S.Jackson to make this deal favorable… They need to see if they can get a 2nd and a 4th round pick out of the deal. Depending on how much the Rams want him, we may be able to become the beneficiary of some of those picks they got from the Redskins.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
“I would not want Richardson if he were the next Barry Sanders.” Are you kidding? You must have a 4 on your Wonderlick. I saw Sanders play at the Great Sombrero many times. If Sanders were available, he’d be the first player taken in this draft. Forget all the crap about “never take running back.” These kind of gross generalizations should be paid no attention. Every year and every team is different. If Richardson is there, we take him and we have a top 5 offense. We will simply have to outscore the opponents. In today’s NFL every team has weaknesses. The NY Giants didn’t have the greatest linebackers and defensive backs but they had a great pass rush and a dynamic offense. The Patriots defensive numbers were almost as bad as ours. You have to dominate first on one side of the line or the other.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
@sensiblebuc Stats don’t tell the who story on corners, and believe me William Gay is by far one of the worst starting in the league and has been a human slice of toast for years.
I have posted about this before: Late round/undrafted Running backs are on the whole much better than their corner counterparts. Yes the Finnegans are out there and Arrington (who isn’t the best corner on his own team) and just a couple others that are doing pretty well for themselves. Running backs like Arian Foster, Willie Parker, Priest Holmes, Ryan Grant, Fred Jackson, Blount :), and BenJarvus Green-Ellis are round every year.
Plus who knows that TRich wont become this years Curtis Enis, Ron Dayne, Ki-Jana Carter, Rashan Salaam, Tim Biakabutuka, Reggie Bush, or Lawerence Phillips? Yeah they all went really high in the draft. My cb bust research turned up much less for busts…Rashard Anderson, and Pacman Jones. History shows me that corners are a much safer bet in the top of the draft and with less of them in the later rounds that go on to be great i say this: Corner early and running back late 🙂
April 16th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Stephen Jackson is a stud! His first run last year was 65 yrd touchdown! But he pulled his quad on the play. which is understandable. He was still a little cold.
We could get the Rams extra second rounder, plus Jackson, plus our lost 4th rounder.
This deal would be DOPE!!!!
April 16th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
I think the question would be do we want to win now or later?
April 16th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
F that!! Trade with the Rams just to get another 2nd round,But don’t take Jackson he’s old wants and is beat up. I like Doug Martin in the second round over Jackson. Hell we could do really well on getting picks if the Rams trade up with us and we can trade down with someone else.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
“We will simply have to outscore the opponents. In today’s NFL every team has weaknesses. The NY Giants didn’t have the greatest linebackers and defensive backs but they had a great pass rush and a dynamic offense. The Patriots defensive numbers were almost as bad as ours.”
—————————-
BINGO!!!
I love the anti-TR crowd and their “1st round backs are a thing of the past” arguments but they fail to acknowledge that Offense is now king in the NFL. Not defense. Put a dynamic offense on the field and you’ll go deep in the playoffs. Period.
April 16th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@BigBear
“I have posted about this before: Late round/undrafted Running backs are on the
whole much better than their corner counterparts.”
If you want a productive, franchise level running back you take him early: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/2/15/2799451/where-do-nfl-teams-draft-franchise-running-backs
April 16th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
I’m okay with a Rams’ trade of 5 & 6, but…… Steven Jackson as compensation for moving up is far too low. The Rams just raked the Skins over the coals to swap picks. I would only make that trade for Pick 6, both Rams and Skins’ 2’nd round picks, and if you want to throw Steven Jackson in too, that’s fine. If you want T-Rich like the Skins wanted RG3, you have to pay the Piper. Sorry but Steven Jackson is not worth $7 million / yr with all the mileage he has, and history of injury.
April 16th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
@Sensiblebuc Though i don’t have the date to dispute what your article has to say, it does seem to leave out undrafted players where i was basing more of my argument off of. That aside. I’m not saying that we should pick up a runner in the first two rounds: I’m saying that the history of Running back busts in the top ten scares me. Players from your article like Spiller and Reggie Bush who aren’t completely worthless, but were not worth their pick. Top ten running backs have a high percentage chance of being a bust, or at the least not coming close to being the hall of fame back everyone just “knew” they were.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/631329-1st-round-runningbacks-of-this-decade-a-recap-report-card I’m not saying i agree with their grades but take a look at this list from 2000-2010 ( enough time in the league to figure out how good these guys really are. ) Really telling i think.
April 16th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Trent Richardson + 2nd round CB > Steven Jackson/ Morris Claibourne
If TR is there, then we need this guy.
@ Pete Dutcher:
You said, “Honestly, Reddman, Richardson could be the next Barry Sanders and I still would not want him unless Claiborne and Kalil are both off the board.”
Really, Pete, Really? C’mon man, you don’t pass up on greatness.
April 16th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
@rdbucfan….
Granted, we may have different opinions on what an elite RB might be. Who would you consider an elite RB….at least one that is currently in the league today?
Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice? Maurice Jones-Drew? I don’t know who else you might have in your category, but those 3 were drafted 1st and 2nd round respectively.
Outside of Ray Rice, neither player helped get their team over .500. Yes, they had great FANTASY numbers, but in a real world application, neither of those players helped their team to more wins, or even a playoff birth. Everyone is trying to turn the NFL into Madden, and its just not realistic.
Please understand, I am not here to bash anyone’s opinions or try to start some “flame” war. If we had no needs and were able to draft the best available player, regardless of position, I would be all for taking Richardson with our pick. Hell, if we are even able to trade back and pick up an extra pick or 2, then I would be all for taking Richardson with one of the early picks.
The issue is, though, that regardless of what you want to believe or not, we NEED more CB depth. Remember, the immediate goal in the NFL is to win your division. Our division is stacked with great QBs and very good receivers (WR/TE). Why would you pass up the opportunity to draft a player that can help stop the pass for the next 10+ years?
And, as unlikely as it is, if we are able to get Jackson via trade AND still be able to get Claiborne, we would be MUCH better off than if we ONLY picked up Claiborne or Richardson.
April 16th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
@Hawaiian Buc…..
“That is unbelievable to me. My favorite non-Buccaneer is Deion Sanders, but I would have pushed him off a cliff for the opportunity to get Barry Sanders.”
What you stated is EXACTLY why I truly feel like Madden and Fantasy Football (even though I play as well) is messing up people’s perception on how to ‘properly’ build a team. Every time Barry Sanders took a hand off or caught the ball out of the backfield, it was a highlight reel waiting to happen. When Dion got the ball in his hands, you just KNEW he was going to find a way to take it back to the house.
BUT…………
Quick: how many championships did Dion help his team win and how many championships did Barry help his team win?
Take your time, I’ll wait.
April 16th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
I guess the MAIN point I’m trying to make is this:
It doesn’t matter if your (our) team can put up 45 points a week if we’re allowing the other team to put up 46.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Snook Says:
April 16th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
“We will simply have to outscore the opponents. In today’s NFL every team has weaknesses. The NY Giants didn’t have the greatest linebackers and defensive backs but they had a great pass rush and a dynamic offense. The Patriots defensive numbers were almost as bad as ours.”
—————————-
BINGO!!!
I love the anti-TR crowd and their “1st round backs are a thing of the past” arguments but they fail to acknowledge that Offense is now king in the NFL. Not defense. Put a dynamic offense on the field and you’ll go deep in the playoffs. Period.
______________________________________
POINT PROVEN!!!! both of those teams mentioned (Giants and Patriots) have NO first round RBs on their team….
also, last I checked, out of the 2 teams that went to the superbowl, the team that had the better DEFENSE won that game.
just sayin.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Bus need talent.
Bucs should pick BPA.
Drafting for “need” has gotten us to where we are… 10 straight losses….
Time to pick the best player available with all 6 picks……
April 16th, 2012 at 5:12 pm
Patriots and Giants may not have a 1st round RB on their team, but you can bank on their respective organizations to draft the Best Player Availavle.
Talent wins in this league.
Patch up “needs” in FA.
Focus the NFL draft on taking the BPA.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Giants drafted Jason Pierre Paul with the 17th or 18th pick in 2010.
Did the Giants “need” another DE? Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka…
Did they use the DRAFT to pick the BPA?
Yup! 2 superbowls later.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
stevek Says:
Trent Richardson + 2nd round CB > Steven Jackson/ Morris Claibourne
But what of the guy the Bucs would add with the 2nd if they they landed Jackson & Claiborne?
If you are going to include that pick for one you need to include it for both or you are comparing apples to oranges.
Stephen Jackson, Morris Claiborne and Lavonte David > Trent Richardson + 2nd Round CB
April 16th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
@ Greig,
I am just concerned with Steven Jackson’s health. The guy has a lot of wear and tear on him.
I fear his investment would not pay dividends to the team.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
@ Big Bear
This guy’s study was done for RBs drafted from 2006-2010. The reasoning behind limiting the study to drafted players is that there are literally an unlimited amount of UDFAs out there in the population. For every Arian Foster, how many Mossis Madu, Derek Watson, Kareem Huggins, Clifton Smith-type guys are there?
“Top ten running backs have a high percentage chance of being a bust, or at the least not coming close to being the hall of fame back everyone just “knew” they were.”
Well if we’re using that criteria…
1) Jamal Lewis – Pro Bowler
2) LT – Pro Bowler
3) Ronnie Brown – Pro Bowler
4) Cedric Benson – Solid Starter
5) Cadillac – Bust (moderately productive)
6) Reggie Bush – Bust (now moderately productive)
7) AP – Pro Bowler
8) Darren McFadden – Explosive/Injury Prone
9) CJ Spiller – Incomplete
I see 4 Pro Bowlers, 2 solid starters, 2 busts and 1 incomplete. Looking at these guys picked top 10 overall, taking T-Rich it doesn’t look so bad.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
I think Kareem Huggins may have had a shot in the NFL, if not for the Bounty placed on him by Greg Williams and his band of scumbags.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
No thanks….the Bucs take a fresh T Rich …over a “Goodwill Shoe” held together with SuperGlue
April 16th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
In order to be the best, you need to draft the best.
April 16th, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I’d love to see Joe start a page where posters can go on record….and I am talking about a long time recorded poll posters picks…..It would be fun holding feet to the fire down the road….
April 16th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
wish this will happen.
April 16th, 2012 at 8:02 pm
@celly_bwoy
That is a ridiculous argument. Comparing the Lions franchise to the Cowboys and 49ers is utterly insane. How many championships did Deion win in Atlanta? Both the cowboys and 49ers were championship teams before he got there. What about Emmitt Smith? He was pretty good, don’t you think? He’s got 3. They dont win any without him. Stop twisting facts to prove your point
April 16th, 2012 at 8:22 pm
With the Fifth pick of the NFL draft, JoeBucsFan selects: Trent Richardson.
Dom’s thoughts, “Great we have a guy that can come in and show Gerald around the weight room”.
Richardson’s work ethic would shine through and inspire the whole team. Do it Dom!
April 16th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Celly,
Yes, those three would be elite. I’m not saying that RB’s drafted in later rounds can’t be elite or franchise backs. I’ve been watching SEC RB’s since Walker at UGA, Emmitt Smith at UF, Bo Jackson at Auburn, Jamal Lewis at UT all were franchise RB’s. I think Richardson has what it takes to be a franchise RB.
If T Rich is there you have to take him. I’m not saying he is for sure a franchise RB, but nobody ever knows if a player is a sure thing.
I like Blount as a complimentary back not a bell cow. People call him a beast and a power back but I don’t see it unless he is up against a corner or safety. Even then he would rather go over than through. If he were to show over his 1st 2 years that he is willing to put his head down for that needed foot, I would say he could be a franchise back. But he hasn’t or won’t which is what bothers me the most. Fumbling and blocking can be coached, a killer instinct can’t be taught or coached.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Steven Jackson,really? C’mon man ,why isn’t there ever a “crazy” trade invoving a young up and coming star instead of some old relic,who has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peal? Well may be because it’s a “crazy” idea and once again the suckers are falling all over it………….,really! c’mon man!!!!
April 16th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
@Teach, ….. this deal would be dope……or dopey
April 16th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
I bet those Detroit Lion fans are so upset. If they only didn’t have Barry Sanders, but instead got Deion Sanders, they would probably have like 5 or 6 Super Bowls. Obviously Barry was the reason they didn’t get any championships. If they only had a great CB, they would probably be the greatest franchise of all time. As a matter of fact, if the Vikings and Texans would just get rid of their RB’s, they would be playing in the Super Bowl every year. It’s been proven time and time again that having an elite Rb is a terrible thing, and should be avoided at all costs. I’m also wondering why the Colts and Redskins are going to waste their picks on QB’s in the first round, when obviously all they need is a shutdown cornerback. I mean, Deion Sanders has 2 rings, so that is obviously how you win championships. (I hope you are picking up the sarcasm, because I’m laying it on pretty thick)
April 16th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
@Celly,
I got a quiz for you: Who were the QB’s of the Detroit Lions when Barry played? Who were the QB’s of the Cowboys and 49ers? I’ll give you a hint: 2 of those QB’s are in the Hall of Fame, the others are not. Go ahead, I’ll wait……
April 16th, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Celly,
Sorry, I kind of unnecessarily blasted you. I’m getting excited for the draft I guess. You are just stating your opinion, and I apologize for all the sarcasm. You did make some good points, I just happen to disagree.
It all boils down to one thing: it doesn’t matter who your RB or CB is if you don’t have a QB. We can argue for days about it, but that fact will never change. The list of championship QB’s who were not good QB’s is very small (and even the ones on the list happened to have a good run during their championship season, ahem Trent Dilfer). You can’t name me one team that has won multiple championships that didn’t have a very good to excellent QB. Hopefully we have our QB, we just have to build around him. If Freeman has another year like 2011, we are most likely going to be looking for another QB in 2013. He needs all the weapons, so he can have the greatest chance for success. You take the best player available, no matter what. No matter what trends are hot in the NFL, taking the BPA always works. Having 2 great RB’s is not a problem, it’s a blessing. If TR is rated higher than Claiborne, then you take him and never look back. Drafting for need is a guaranteed way to get you right back in the same draft position next year.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:15 am
Nope
April 17th, 2012 at 1:04 am
I love this annointment of T-Rich comparing him to Barry Sanders and Adrian Peterson. Theres been a hundred of these guys come out since Barry and Adrian and there’s only one Barry and one Adrian. So, the majority of people on here would be in favor of T-Rich over MO Claiborne and S-Jax. Seriously? Come on. That’s a slam dunk yes to MO and S-Jax. Wouldn’t cost us anything but cap space and we get the right choice between MO and T-Rich.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:25 am
With the 5th pick of the first round the Tampa bay Buccaneer’s select Trent Richardson RB Alabama…This is all they need to do! Why make things so complicated?
April 17th, 2012 at 2:28 am
@Cmurda,
You need to go back and read the post from Pete Dutcher. That’s why we are saying Barry Sanders, because he said he would take a CB over Barry Sanders, which is too ridiculous for words.
As for MO and Steven Jackson, I wouldn’t cry over it, although I would probably want one more pick in addition, due to Jackson having a lot of miles. Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m just too lazy to look it up), but it seems as if he’s been wearing down a little and getting some injuries the last couple years. Regardless, it’s not going to happen. I’m sure you know that, so a hypothetical scenario like this really isn’t worth discussing. These kind of trades are so rare in the NFL, and I can’t remember EVER seeing one team make a trade with only one pick separating them. But I will say, it is what makes draft time fun!!!
April 17th, 2012 at 2:36 am
I’m obviously a huge TR fan, but Barry Sanders he is not. (just wanted to set the record straight on that)
April 17th, 2012 at 8:01 am
@SensibleBuc Ronnie Brown got into the pro bowl one year and he only every topped 1000 yards once in his career…. a top ten pick should allow you to have an elite player in the NFL. So maybe bust isnt the word i was looking for but not living up to expectations? yeah LT, Jamal, and AP have been the only ones who have lived up to their billing. The rest are solid starters or worse. For getting someone worth a top ten pick its really more of a 1 out of three lives up to their billing from this evidence.
April 17th, 2012 at 9:02 am
NOT going to happen. Watch and see.
Nor should it IMO.
April 17th, 2012 at 9:56 am
@Big Bear
“…a top ten pick should allow you to have an elite player in the NFL. So maybe bust isn’t the word i was looking for but not living up to expectations?”
So once again, using your criteria:
Top 10 overall picks at Cornerback since 2000:
1) Quentin Jammer – Solid Starter. No Pro Bowls. No All Pro teams. (Overrated)
2) Terrence Newman – Multiple Pro Bowls but worth #5 overall? Was he ever a “shutdown” corner”? That’s arguable.
3) Deangelo Hall- Pro Bowler but worth the #8 overall pick? Nope. Gives up as many big plays as he makes.
Dunta Robinson – Solid Starter but for the #10 overall shouldn’t he be known more for shutting down one side of the field that laying people out with illegal hits?
Pacman – No comment necessary.
Carlos Rogers – Pro Bowler last year finally after years of subpar play but definitely not a shutdown, franchise corner.
Joe Haden – Solid starter but hasn’t really been anything special.
Pat Peterson – Pro Bowler. Stud. Punt Returner supreme. Absolutely worth every penny and his #5 overall status
You know what I see: 4 Pro Bowlers, 3 solid starters, & 1 bust…eerily similar to the RBs I listed above.
See how hard of a standard “elite” or “live up to their draft pick” is to meet? How many of these guys were the creme de la creme of at corner at the height of their powers? How many of these guys have been “worth” their top 10 pick status? I think you’re holding top 10 overall picks to too high of a standard.
April 17th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Hawaiian Buc….
“Regardless, it’s not going to happen. I’m sure you know that, so a hypothetical scenario like this really isn’t worth discussing.”
LMAO. That is probably the best comment I’ve read on this thread yet. That’s probably why I chose (am choosing) not to try to argue this point anymore. Any real football fan should know that the probability of this trade happening are as strong as (@Joe would say) Rachael Watson showing up to my door w/ nothing but a trench coat and some dental floss (although, I would probably like to see LaMeitra Dupree or Monica Arrington….but the Dental floss reference would probably be more fitting with Jaime Hanna…yeah, she could check my teeth ANY day)
Anyway, I digress…
At the end of the day, none of us are decision makers on the team. Like it or not, some of use are NOT going to be happy on draft day. If they take Richardson w/ the 5th pick, will I be happy about it at the time? NO. But you can guaran-damn-tee I’ll be screaming for him to make that cut and take the handoff to the house.
I just want to close with 2 quick statements (opinions):
1. If by “your” (the general your, not you specifically) own account, the NFL is turning into a passing league; why wouldn’t you want to select someone who can stop the pass? SensibleBuc just stated that he looks at Pat Peterson as a “Stud. Absolutely worth every penny at his #5 overal status.” It has been said that Claiborne was the better of the 2 corners AND we have his old DB coach here.
2. Dominick has stated that the way to build a winning franchise is to do 3 things: Get a franchise QB, get to the OTHER QB and protect YOUR QB. I won’t argue that picking up a running back is not a good way to protect your QB, because we all know it is. But personally, I would rather have a guy on my team that can shut down one side of the field…thus allowing the defensive line to do their job.
just my 0.02
GO BUCS!!!
April 17th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Stephen Jackson>Matt Forte in this scenario, because we get the number 6 pick and get an elite corner rather than the 19th pick and a not as elite corner.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:52 am
Anyone saying Jackson is breaking down has not watched him play. He has had 7 straight 1000 yard seasons for a reason. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5549/steven-jackson
April 17th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
This would be the greatest trade of all time!!! I couldn’t be happier and anyone that wouldn’t want SJ39 for basically nothing needs to leave this site ASAP!!!!
I also think a good trade option will be with either Miami or Kansas City. Thats only if Miami doesn’t draft Tannehill. Which IMO they won’t. But both Mia and KC are after Tannehill and both have lots to offer! I personally would go with KC because those 3 extras spots means a ton more in draft picks we would receive.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Dream scenario….Kalil 3 to Minn, TR3 4 to Clev, TB trades down with STL to get Stephen Jackson. Then at pick 6 trade down again to KC and pick up the 11th pick, their 2nd round pick and their 4th round pick. We could then go…
11th- Donta Hightower, Luke Kuelchy, and its possible that Claiborne could fall here as well. Not too likely though. Or Mark Barron…might be high for him, but look in Seattle with Earl Thomas. They drafted him early and he just turned out to be an all pro safety.
37th- Janoris Jenkins, Zac Brown…either CB or LB here
42/43rd(whatever KCs pick would be) Get either a CB,LB,or Safety. Whichever one we didn’t get with the first two picks.
3rd Round- RB…I personally love LaMichael James.
4th Round from KC- Ladarius Green TE from ULL
April 17th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
We would have a starting LB, CB, Safety,2 RBs, and a future star TE. I should be the GM!!! Talk about instant upgrade to help out our team!!
Then trade Blount for a 3rd-5th round pick. I don’t think his value will be too high and I also do not think Schiano likes him. I am a supporter and fan of Blount. But would much rather have a combo of Jackson and James out there everyweek! Its nothing personal. Just a business decision.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Correction…thats only if Cleveland doesn’t draft Tannehill not Miami. Sorry
April 17th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
and in dream scenario TR3 wouldn’t go to Clev. he would still be there for STL to trade for. Blackmon would go to Cleveland. Which is possible. But I still believe Clev will draft TR3 and mess this all up!