In Retrospect, Not A Bad First Round
April 27th, 2012
The second of the Bucs first round picks last night, Boise State running back Doug Martin.
Now last night Joe was a little bit harsh on Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik for what Joe perceived to be a bungling of the opening hours of the draft.
In retrospect, it appears Dominik, rather than being played, played the first round just right.
Many Bucs fans were outraged Dominik didn’t win a bidding war with Cleveland to trade up for the third spot and draft Alabama running back Trent Richardson. Joe is not in this camp.
A few hours after the draft, if one is to take Dominik at his word, the Bucs had no interest in Richardson much less going Mike Ditka and trading a fistful of precious draft picks to move up.
“We had no interest in trading up,” Dominik said in his first press conference last night. To Joe this implies, “No interest in Richardson.”
With rumors rampant that Dominik and the Bucs were exploring trading up, this baited Cleveland into panicking and paying a way over-the-top price for a running back.
Now Joe thought Dominik was played by the Rams and Jerry Jones when — on face value — it appeared Dominik totally undersold a draft pick to the Jags, moving down two spots for only a fourth round pick. Then he could still get stud LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne, only to see Rams, picking at No. 6, quickly trade the pick to a salivating Jones who quickly swooped in and grabbed Claiborne.
Joe was angry with how this shook out, not so much bummed that the Bucs drafted Alabama safety Mark Barron, but thinking what easily could have been with Claiborne.
Joe had a back-and-forth with an insider at One Buc Palace late last night and said source swore on a stack of Bibles that Barron indeed was the Bucs No. 1 target.
Joe started putting the pieces of the puzzle together and it makes sense.
Yesterday on WDAE-AM 620, Joe’s good friend “The Big Dog,” Steve Duemig, interviewed Bucs defensive end Adrian Clayborn who told Duemig before the draft got underway that Schiano’s No. 1 task with the defense, above all else, is to stop the run since the Bucs were so horrid at this last year.
If there is a knock on Claiborne, it would be that he’s not a crushing tackler. Barron is.
Also, Dominik knew for weeks about the status of his cornerbacks (who knows what Aqib Talib’s future entails?) but safety was a bigger hole with no Tanard Jackson and Cody Grimm yet to show he can survive a year on the field much less if he can return from a second consecutive season-ending leg injury.
And that fourth round pick Joe thought Dominik was taken by? Well, without that pick, the Bucs aren’t able to swoop in and startle the Giants, grabbing the second-best running back in the draft at the end of the first round, Doug Martin.
So in restrospect, rather than being played, Dominik was a player last night.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:18 am
No, we got played by Jax. I love Barron, but that was a terrible trade.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:21 am
Agreed, but it did work out in the end.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:23 am
It was terrible at the time. Or so most thought but you have to look at the whole of the round. That “terrible” trade netted us a 4th we didnt have to begin with and got us back in the first to draft Martin…. That doesnt sound to terrible to me.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:24 am
They got the guy they wanted, plus an extra pick to trade up and get their other guy. How is that getting played by Jax? Dominik got exactly what he wanted without giving away ANYTHING.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:26 am
In retrospect, this was a very good first round – given an A+ by many draft analyst.
I know a bad decision when I see one and I made one last night when I criticized Mark Dominik for not getting more for the trade down to #7. I never criticized the pick, I love the pick, but I was irritated with the price paid – so much so that I never got to see the trade for Doug Martin at the end of RD1.
I could make excuses for my judgment because I started my draft party early, but I won’t, I just completely misread what was going on. This morning with things being a lot clearer, it turns out to be a clever move without which the move back into the 1st round would have been much more difficult if not impossible.
So I’m not too proud to man up and say to Dominik and crew “Ya did good” and keep up the good work. Every fan gets a one-time “stupid card” and I played mine last night. So I’m back on the boat firing cannons at full mast! Go Bucs!
April 27th, 2012 at 8:26 am
Essentially trading Justin Blackmon for Barron & Martin. Morris can’t tackle and help the run D, BUCS made out big time!
April 27th, 2012 at 8:28 am
That was the ONLY trade we were going to get. It’s stupid to think that Dom just ‘settled’ for a 4th and lost Claiborne. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing in getting the 4th round pick in order to trade with Denver and going after Barron. Mark Barron actually has better numbers as a safety than Claiborne has as a corner. You will be thrilled we have him next year. If we don’t make that trade we lose out on the top 3 RB’s in the draft. I thought it was brilliant.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:30 am
I absolutely love the Doug Martin pickup. He could be the back that all of the TR lovers want w/o giving up the farm.
But, I’m not entirely convinced they wanted Barron the whole time, and I think they could have gotten a little more than a 4th for trading back. But, that’s splitting hairs.
A good first round. I wouldn’t say an A, but still good. Obviously, there’s a whole lot more draft to go.
Looking forward to all the free agent releases from teams after the draft is over.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Just because he made a great trade for Martin doesn’t absolve him of not getting more from the Jags. Seattle got more for a trade much lower in the round.
The Martin trade was great, the Barron trade was terrible, but I like both players a lot.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:35 am
I predict Mo Claiborne will have his first off the field incident before June, the Wonderlic tests problem solving and analytical thinking, it’s not meant to see how football smart you are, it’s designed to see how quickly you can problem solve. I love the Barron pick, he fits the Schiano mold of leadership (2 yr captain) & tackling (it’s called TACKLE football) and the Martin pick was just perfect, it gives us two punishing backs, I can see us using Blount as the closer when we have a 4th qtr lead, have Blount hammer the crap out of the opposition’s D.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:36 am
Mark Dominik is truly a rock star. Nobody played him. We wanted Baron and Martin, we got em both! And both are leaders of men, vocal leaders. Their presence will be felt for years to come. They are the perfect incarnation of the new Buccaneers’s way!
Congrats to Dominik, I’m simply thrilled by our draft so far!
April 27th, 2012 at 8:40 am
I think it was a good trade! We have something like 5-6 CB’s and are VERY thin at safety. I’m also a Bama fan and this kid was the heart and soul of the Tide “D” last year…and he can flat out knock the snot out of a ball carrier. I think we have our next John Lynch!
April 27th, 2012 at 8:43 am
Just because I think the trade was terrible doesn’t mean I don’t like Barron. I do. Really early for a safety, but he looks like he’s going to be a great one.
But that trade was – ugh.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Nobody, and I mean nobody would have guessed that Dallas would have traded into that spot for Claiborne. Even Peter King said Claiborne had no contact with Dallas at all whatsoever.
I despise Dom but I can’t fault him for rolling the dice on the trade. At the time it seemed like a good bet. That’s what the draft is. Rolling the dice and weighing the odds. The odds were very good at the time.
In fact when the trade was announced with Dallas, every analyst in America immediately said that the Cowboys traded up to get Barron, which was considered a great move, and not a reach at all.
We got ourselves a great tackler who will simultaneously help our sad linebacker situation and provide the kind of great tackling/great coverage that we haven’t seen since John Lynch.
The real question is, is Doug Martin everything he’s been made out to be?
April 27th, 2012 at 8:45 am
I agree, Joe. Our draft party was deflated with what seemed like a dropped ball on MD’s part. However, to cut in line in front of the Giants and take their pick made up for it big time. Perhaps we could have gotten more for moving back, but in 2 years I think everybody is going to be happy with these two guys.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:49 am
We DID NOT get taken by anyone. We traded our #5 pick with disregard to the fact we could have had Claiborne. That tells me they wanted somebody else (Barron) and was able to get a pick to drop back two spots.
People are pissed because it’s not a sexy pick, but Barron is a damn good player. If you thought Grimm was a heat seaking missle, watch THIS kid play.
And to top it off, we probably got the 2nd best RB in the draft. No doubt in my mind that NY and Rams would be hunting for a RB. (and the Giants selected one at 32).
We did just fine and still have a 2nd round pick.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:51 am
Joe, last night was a very emotional roller coaster night. I think a lot of people felt the same way you did including myself but I was a bit surprised by the harshness of your story.
That being said, I have a greater respect for you now more than ever, based on the story you just wrote. It takes a real man to step up and admit that you may have been wrong. Well done.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:52 am
excuse me, I meant still have a 4th round pick
April 27th, 2012 at 8:53 am
Don’t know how we can really grade the trade accurately.
Us, as fans, don’t know what else was on the table.
Maybe that was the only offer. Was any other team interested in taking Blackmon before St Louis wanted to? Not that I know of.
And if the Bucs truly wanted Barron over Claiborne, taking him at #5 with no bonus 4th rounder would’ve been worse than what actually happened.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:53 am
Uhh, we don’t still have a second round pick.
April 27th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Uhh, we don’t still have a second round pick.
===============
Two first rounders isn’t as good as a one second rounder?? C’mon now…
April 27th, 2012 at 8:59 am
I think that they really did want Richardson, but wasn’t willing to trade their draft away for him or else wasn’t expecting Cleveland to trade the farm. As for Claiborne, I don’t think that they ever had him high on their draft board. Dominik said before the draft that the wonderlic played a big part of their draft board. Claiborne got a 4, I guarantee that he was lower than Barron on their board.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:00 am
@Meh: Doug Martin was our 2nd round pick….
April 27th, 2012 at 9:00 am
Dom can say what he wants, he got played, he thought he could recoup the fourth they were missing and still get Claibourne, I dont mind Barron, but please dont take us for idiots, You made the best of the situation after you screwed it up. Trading with Denver to get Martin was a good decision but i dont know if it was a homerun, maybe just a good play at the moment, time will tell.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:00 am
I didn’t say that Nick, I was replying to bucsfanjeff who said “We did just fine and still have a 2nd round pick.” We don’t. You took that as a critique of the Martin pick, which I never made (I loved that move).
April 27th, 2012 at 9:01 am
Considering Barron’s name was never brought up by the experts (even those “experts” on here) or by the Bucs themselves, it makes total sense and that was who they wanted. Great 1st round! Go Bucs!
April 27th, 2012 at 9:03 am
@Bobby:
Sorry but I believe MD.
Claiborne quit on the Wonderlic because he didn’t see the point in it.
Not a guy I want on my team. I’m sure Schiano agrees.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:04 am
flmike
I agree, I think Claiborne will make some poor off-field decisions.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:05 am
@ Meh
You’re absolutely right, no 2nd round pick, just two 1st rounders, and still having a total of more picks than what we started with at the beginning of the day.
We started with the following picks:
1st Rnd (5th Overall), 2nd Rnd (36th), 3rd Rnd (68th), 5th Rnd (140th), 6th Rnd (174th) and 7th Rnd (212nd)
We start today with:
1st Rnd (Barron), 1st Rnd (Martin), 3rd Rnd (68th Overall), 4th Rnd (126th), 5th Rnd (140th), 6th Rnd (174th) and 7th Rnd (212nd)
If you look at it that way, the Bucs are in a better position (both in Quantity and Quality) then they were 24 hours ago. I’ll take not having a 2nd round pick right now.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:14 am
For anybody interested, Claiborne was not at the top of the Cowboy’s draft board, it was Mark Barron. There was no offer for Claiborne at #7. Only after the Buc’s pick of Barron did the Cowboys step forward with their offer!
April 27th, 2012 at 9:17 am
Great draft so far Rock Star.Keep up the good work.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:17 am
Dom got played hard.
The math is easy
Claiborne , on 4 different pre draft rating systems, averaged 31 pints higher than Barron
That’s a boatload
Add positional value- its another 20 points
We lost claiborne for a measly 4th rd pick
Value- 10 points
Total 41 points
Total load drafting by Dom . Just horrible
He traded back- knowing JVille wanted Blackmon.
He thought we’d still get Claiborne.
He didn’t anticipate Dallas trading up
That’s why he spent 10 minutes trying to recover.if Barron was his pick, he wouldnt have still been trying to trade down.
We lost an all pro corner- for a 4th round pick
This ought to get him fired. It was horrible drafting at its worse
April 27th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Love both of the picks. John Lynch has been conducting an indepth study of the Safety position for an undisclosed team….read his comments on Barron and you see that he loves the pick..Good draft so far from MD.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:19 am
CapTim
I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong and a$$hats!
April 27th, 2012 at 9:26 am
Last night was embarrassing as far as some “fans” and their uneducated, drunken and flat out stupid rantings are concerned.
Thankfully most of us, according to a poll I looked at this morning, understand and are grateful for picking up two starters, two players who were team captains an great, not good but GREAT college players who most scouts believe will be Pro Bowl players very soon.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:31 am
@ Meh,
My apologies, didn’t realize you were correcting someone else. The statement on it’s own does sound like a grievance.
@ Capt Tim
What year did Claiborne make the All-Pro team? I’m sure the grades by draft “experts” (guys that are so great at grading out players that they must be asking for too much money to work for one of the 32 businesses where that skill would be useful for) you’ve found are much more valuable than the opinion of the one guy who’s been working directly with Claiborne for the past few years. I cannot believe that if his old position coach would have been raving about him that we would have passed on him if he was there for us to take (which he was). Dom may not have been able to exactly predict that the Cowboys would’ve traded up to get Claiborne, but he had to know it was possible (and a good possibility as well since we just “screwed” Rams out of Blackmon, I’m sure they would’ve loved to return the favor) some team would’ve traded up for him. The Bucs did not want Claiborne in the top 10, period.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:33 am
The Bucs #1 goal going into the draft was to help stop the run. Not only did they get a safety who is extremely good against the run, we got a safety who is extremely good against the pass also. The problem with Claiborne is that he is horrible at tackling, now corners don’t get paid to tackle they get paid to lock down receivers and that is what Claiborne should do. I wanted Claiborne but this pick makes sense and every analyst is on board with it, as is John Lynch, who thinks Barron is very special. Throw in Doug Martin and this is a great start to the draft. In the third round their will be guys like Trumain Johnson and Josh Norman, two very good CB’s that we could get and their are linebackers such as Nigel Bradham, Tank Carder, Sean Spence, Bobby Wagner, Audie Cole, who could all be their, or maybe even a Mychal Kendricks. We now have a 4th round pick as well this years draft is deep so lets keep it up. We haven’t had a guy who can lay someone out whether it being a LB or Safety since Lynch. Tanard made a few hits early on but he was never known as a player who could lay the WOOD on a regular basis.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:40 am
I couldn’t have asked for a better draft so far. We have two players that are really good prospects in positions of need. We also still netted one extra draft pick in a round where we had none. I like Claiborne but I think Mark Barron isn’t too far from him in terms of ability. We got good prospects and added a pick whats not to love?
April 27th, 2012 at 9:44 am
I wanted Richardson but it worked out 10 times better. I am excited about Martin. And Barron is a perfect pick…. What are the Steelers without Polamalu ? WOW ! Great job. glad the front office knows alot more than me ….
April 27th, 2012 at 9:47 am
Macabee- what???
The cowboys picked BEFORE us, and drafted Claiborne.
What are you talking about??
If they wanted Barron( they didnt) they could have drafted him instead of Claiborne- both were available
Neither of us wanted Barron. We both wanted claiborne. Dom didn’t count on anyone trading up for him
He also gave away the 5 th spot waaaay to cheap
It showed how bad he really is.
Shoulda left with raheem
April 27th, 2012 at 9:48 am
I will always remember your. famous statement. ” I am always right” You were wrong dumb a$$. And your not man enough to admit it now.!!! Are you Capt??
April 27th, 2012 at 9:55 am
These two picks tell us a lot about how the Bucs are drafting to fill needs and complement free agency. We still don’t know exactly what Schiano’s offense and defense will look like but it looks like it will play harder, smarter and faster than last year. That seems like a good thing to me.
April 27th, 2012 at 9:56 am
I of course wanted Richardson but after how the 1st round went for us I am pleased. The only thing I’m disappointed in is we didn’t get more from Jacksonville. Dominik played that horribly(I can imagine him saying “oh we don’t have a 4th round pick so just give us one and we’re good”, ugh). As for Claiborne, I actually believe the Bucs didn’t want him and wanted Barron. Claiborne is soft/doesn’t tackle and not that bright(“I didn’t even try on the wonderlic since it’s not about football”.)
April 27th, 2012 at 9:56 am
HUGE PROPS!!
Much respect to Joe for doing a 180 after more information on the pic came out. There are still corners available in later rounds as well as linebackers. There was only one clear cut stud at safty in this draft and the Bucs got him.
Third round pic- Lavonte David
April 27th, 2012 at 10:29 am
Capt Tim, you are correct! Meant to make the point that at #5 (not #7) when it was known the Bucs were shopping the pick, the Cowboys did not at that time make an offer. It was known that Barron was at the top of their draft board at that time. They did in fact surprise everyone when they moved up to pick Claiborne. The Bucs contend that Barron was their 1st choice all along or they were playing poker and lost!
April 27th, 2012 at 10:41 am
im in with the picks i thought we got played at first but whn u look at it we didnt want claiborne at all even tho i campaigned for him i saw some things abt him tht didnt fit our defensive scheme im in on barron well to tampa and martin is a baller!!!
April 27th, 2012 at 10:42 am
bobby wagner in the 3rd
April 27th, 2012 at 10:45 am
Dominik did not get played. He came out of the first day of the draft with the safety he wanted, a stud running back and a late fourth round pick. That’s a damn productive day, in my book.
April 27th, 2012 at 11:17 am
How do any of you know based on a wonderlic score that Claiborne that he will have off the field issues. Crazy…, great job MD, still think you could’ve got at least a 7th rounder from the jags also. Excited about the 2 picks. Hopefully a good corner a lb will be available in round 3 and 4.
April 27th, 2012 at 11:18 am
Where’s the Cbs?? Where’s the Lbers???
Worst defense in the league, and he hasn’t touched the two worst areas?
We will have a high powered offense( if Freeman doesn’t continue to suckl), sitting on the bench- watching our defense give up 48 points a game.
April 27th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Macabee- that’s spot on. The Bucs were confident that Claiborne would be there at 7, once the bikes picked, and the jags moved up to get Blackmon.
Wrong.
Again- there were 6 elite players in this draft. We had the 5th pick, and didn’t get one of them!
Huge fail by Dominick. Barron was rated much lower than Claiborne. Not on the list- but talent wise.
We outsmarted ourselves, and missed out on a perrienial proBowler.
Another huge draft failure by the Rockstar
April 27th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Capt. Tim. LBer, S and RB were/are all bigger needs than CB. CB is a huge need for the Rams and everyone knew they wanted to trade down, do you really think Tampa thought Claiborne was getting past pick 6? If they really wanted Claiborne they would have taken him at 5 and been done with it, but they obviously didn’t want him. No idea why you’re so mad we didn’t take Mr. Afraid to hit and “who cares about the wonderlic I got my $$$$$$$$$$$$”.
April 27th, 2012 at 11:35 am
CapTim
Where’s your sidekick Thomass?
You have turned into a huge Negative Nancy, who thinks shes’ always right? Go back to drinking!
April 27th, 2012 at 11:37 am
I got it! The not-so-great CapTim Nostradumbass is wrong, and just can’t handle it. Too funny!
April 27th, 2012 at 11:53 am
@Rrsrq the Wonderlic tests your ability to problem solve quickly, which translates to your ability to make quick analytical decisions, he proved a failure when he walked away from the test because it didn’t have anything to do with football, proving his analytical thought process is immature, the test has everything to do with how your decision making process works and his doesn’t. Based on his attitude towards the test and his refusal to finish it tells you he’s immature and will likely, not guaranteed, but likely to get in off field trouble. I can almost guarantee you Dez Bryant, JaMarcus Russell, Pacman Jones, Talib, and other names that have off field issues scored below a 12 on the Wonderlic
April 27th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
flmike
EXACTLY!
April 27th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Captain Tim can’t handle the truth. He may actually be Captain Tina.
April 27th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I would’ve been heated if we drafted Claiborne. That dude is a p.o.s. He totally blew off the Wonderlic and was unapologetic afterwards. I’m sure we got some inside info from Ron Cooper on him.
April 27th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
I respect you for (sort of) apologizing for your harsh and misinformed comments last night, Joe.
[Fish: Joe doesn’t drink while working. Calling into question Joe’s intelligence is a blatant no-no. — Joe]
April 27th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Dominic lost his Rock Star status for this draft. The deal with Jax was generous. He did well on face value however. We’ll see in 2 years. With this being said, I wonder what he left on the table if he did want Barron all along, then why not make the trade with Dallas for the 2nd round pick. We could have had Barron and a 2nd round pick.
Rock Star??? Not so sure. Wish I was a fly on that wall in the draft room.