Donald Penn Influencing Bucs’ First Round Pick
April 16th, 2012
Now here’s a roundabout way of saying Bucs left tackle Donald Penn is indirectly swaying not only who the Bucs will draft next week, but how Minnesota may draft.
Yeah, Joe knows this is a bit crazy on face value, but bear with him.
One reason, so says Mike Florio, the creator, curator and overall guru of ProFootballTalk.com, that the Vikings will/should draft USC tackle Matt Kalil with the third overall pick is that a left tackle can only be found in the draft “unless he falls out of the sky after the Vikings cut him.”
That’s exactly what has happened here, twice.
Yeah, last year the Vikings cut Bryant McKinnie, who was a fixture on the Vikings’ left side of the offensive line for a decade.
But not only did the Vikings cut McKinnie, they also put Donald Penn on their practice squad before he was snatched by Bucs soon-to-be rock star general Mark Dominik in 2006. It was Dominik who had scouted Penn heavily in college and twisted the arm of then-Bucs general manager Bruce Almighty to pick up Penn.
Since, Penn has been mostly dominating right-side pass rushers.
So, yeah, the only way one can get a left tackle not from the draft is if the Vikings cut him. Just ask the Bucs (and Ravens).
So now, less than two weeks from the draft, the fact the Vikings no longer have Penn on the roster, will likely influence who lands at the Bucs with the fifth overall pick.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Sucks for them.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Uh what weve had Penn for going on 6 years now.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Penn = 400 lbs
April 16th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Hopefully, Minnesota trades with Miami, and Miami drafts Tannehill. Then Cleveland takes Richardson, and Kalil is there for Tampa.
April 16th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
worst comes to worst we draft kalil and put him at rt for now maybe. even as a rookie im sure he’ll be as good if not better than trueblood. theres worse things than drafting a decade long starting tackle to protect your franchise qb. but that being said hopefully everything pans out and we get claiborne
April 16th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
WHAT?!?!….this story, no sense.
Next……..
April 16th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
@Derek
Why would they put their best tackle at R-Tackle. The solution would be to trade Penn for a second rounder and a conditional pick in next years draft.
April 16th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
If Penn gets much bigger, the tackle box where Freeman can’t throw the ball away will be the whole field.
April 16th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
luckily, freeman will have infinite time to make good choices.
April 16th, 2012 at 6:33 pm
just kidding. sorry, i couldn’t help myself after reading raphael’s comment.
April 16th, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Just to be clear, this is stupid. The Bucs need to spend a 1st round pick on the OL about as much as they need to spend a 1st round pick on a QB. Not too many teams in the league that can say 60% of their starting line has been to the Pro Bowl.
What they need is a Defense that doesn’t give up 21 points in the first 5 minutes of a game, an OC that knows not to sit the starting RB for whole quarters at a time, and a little creativity on offense that’ll keep the other team from knowing a pass is coming on every single play.
Only 2 things make sense: Claiborne or trade
April 16th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Hey Joe have there been any reports on D.Penn weight? Didn’t they have a weight check last week? If he is under weight he is a solid LT and next to Brickhouse even better
April 16th, 2012 at 7:25 pm
@Joe
This article didn’t make much sense but since you’ve probably spent Patriot’s Day at the Ray’s Watch Party at Hooter’s pounding free beers
we’ll forgive you. Just toss a bone we can fight over a couple times a day till draft day.
Draft Kalil at #5 and Penn comes in to training camp 40Lbs lighter. Let him keep the LT position as long as he earns it.
What we need is an offense that pounds the ball 80 yards after the opening kick off for a score. Then proceeds to give you 2 touchdowns per quarter no matter what the our defense does. Trueblood can even come in as a blocking tight end. When Freeman finally goes play action our receiver will be 10yards in the open.
April 16th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Joe your crush for Dom “soon to be rockstar” “twisted Allen’s arm” is so extreme it is palpable!
When is the last time, other than
for Joe’s pet, that a pro personnel assistant got credit, and not the GM, for signing a free agent and not the GM who made the deal? Answer never.
How many times have you credited a pro personnel assistant, and not your crush, for finding a player, like Blount, exposed by another team? Never.
Its truly disgusting. Do you think Penn would be on this team if Bruce Allen
Didnt make the decision to sign him. Every GM has people providing him info – you have NO idea if Dom “twisted” Bruce’s arm, or if Bruce loved Penn before Dom etc.
That is what your fantasy is, nothing more.
April 16th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 — First off, you don’t know what Joe knows. Second, everyone knows rockstars have a posse of people feeding them information and groupies across the globe eager to service them. Why should Joe write what people already know? Yes, Dominik has a staff and Joe’s written about the rockstar GM giving credit to his scouts and Raheem for identifying players. If you choose to be overflowing with venom, Joe can’t help you.
April 16th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
The pro-Dom agenda is really reaching an unexpected level. I am sure the previous coaching staff would disagree with the pro-Dom agenda being promoted here.
Maybe we should rename the site: JoeDomFan so at least we know what we are dealing with. From the rockstar stuff, to stretching responsibility for positives to Dom (Penn) and negatives away from Dom (the teams performance, failed draft picks and free agent signings) – you wonder what it would take for jbf to acknowledge that 17-31dom who has not acquired a single pro bowl player in 3 years in charge has done an unacceptable job.
Can it be worse?
April 16th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 – What agenda? Joe thinks Dominik has done a good job overall and hasn’t deserved to be fired. Is Joe lobbying for Dominik as GM of the year? No. Has Joe written that ultimately Dominik will be judged on wins and losses? Several times.
April 16th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
In an article about Penn and the draft you go out of your way to unnecessarily stroke Dom.
What did that add to the article except to stroke Dom? We got it, we know your feelings for him, we know the last 3 years were 85% rahrah, dom deserves at most just 15% responsibility, Dom is a rockstar, Dom, Dom, Dom, Dom . . .
Maybe Joe is trying to teach me a lesson in redundancy – as annoying as my criticisms of gerald are to many of you – you must be equally annoyed by this incessant dom is great b.s.
April 16th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Thomas 2.2,
My problem is where it comes from:
Joe – seems to want the best for the Bucs and their players, no matter how bad they were last year.
Until they are cut or fired, they are still Bucs, and supporting them is better than not. No one wants disgruntled players on the roster that have had a falling out with the fan base.
Thomas 2.2 – seems to be dissatisfied with everything. Even if the Bucs went 19-0, winning the Super Bowl, and every starter made it to the Pro Bowl, because the Bucs were beating up other teams Madden video game style, you will still be filing complaints in the blogs how the Bucs need a new GM, because they only won because Ronde Barber and other players from past General Managers were on the team.
As this is a fan site, it seems better that people who are fans post. Although you may think you are a fan Thomas, your overall cynicism negates any productive point you may bring up.
Dominik was retained. Hope for the best!
April 16th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 – First, the typical JoeBucsFan reader comes here once a week for 10 minutes. So most people aren’t tormented by any kind of redundancy. Second, Joe, if you haven’t realized, has a bit of an over-the-top style for everything. The Dom stuff drives you nuts. Joe gets it. It drives other people nuts too. One reader once offered Joe cash offline to stop the “rockstar” label. Joe writes to amuse himself, and meet his commitment to be the most diverse and informative Bucs site online.
If you don’t like it, you can always start your own site. Joe would be happy to link to your rants.
April 16th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
OptimistTroll:
I have said this before, nobody loves the bucs more than me.
There are plenty of fanatics who make the subjective fanatical points: dom is a rock star, gerald has not been a mistake, Blount is not 1 dimensional, Talib is a great player and person, Tanard Jackson unfairly inhaled second hand smoke, rahrah had a clue.
The way that you make your product better is not to brag about what is acceptable, it is to identify, articulate and fix what is not acceptable.
Rahrah as head coach was one issue I took on and was correct. Drafting Herald with the #3 overall and paying him 60mil was another – so far right again. I think Dom has unfairly not only received a pass, but on JBF he gets celebrated.
I want problems, like rahrah, repaired – that is it. You dont need another Hawaiian to say how great everything is in the midst of going 17-31 and never finishing above 3rd in the division, with a roster full of undisciplined, lazy punks: Talib, K2, Blount and reportedly Williams.
You only get better by objectively eliminating fatal flaws.
April 16th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Joe,
No prob with “your over the top style” where it makes sense. Where it doesn’t my assumption is that you solicit comments.
You have the right to say what you want, I assume that we have the right to identify disagreements.
I realize this is not traditional joirnalism; however, it gets confusing become some articles are hybrid stories with interwoven subtle opinion. A good example is the Schiano / Gerald story : you guys ignore that Schiano said “I think” he can be a dominant force and present the story as if he says Gerald is or was a dominant force.
I think necessarily means you dont have the evidence to know, meaning, contrary to others theories, he hadnt been a dominant force yet.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
All I know is I’m itching for some football. It’s so bad, I have the crabs on my balls lining up to play offense and defense. LMAO…
April 16th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Capt and Thomas 2.2… just joking.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Thomas2.2
I couldn’t agree more with the Gerald Mccoy thing. Now he hasn’t played a full season to see what he can really do, but the 60mil is a big hit on the pocket for someone who has yet to finish the season with us.Getting rid of Raheem and his coaching staff was the best thing to happen to the team, was surprised “Rock star Dom” didn’t follow, I mean contracts to D.Penn and D.Joseph, GREAT JOB, now contracts to J.Trueblood and Q.Black, REALLY!! That’s just as bad as getting Leftwich, Ward, and K2 his first year as GM in the Raheem era. Hopefully Schiano turns this around it needs to be like the Dungy era. We’ll see what happens just glad we don’t have to dish out money this year like we did for Mccoy (just incase this guys gets injuried alot)
April 16th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
I just can’t help myself but think we are secretly trying to make moves to draft Luke Kuechly. All of the smoke points to Trent Richardson, Mo Claiborne and suddenly now Matt Kalil, and none of these really fill big holes for us.
We don’t NEED a tackle, running back or cornerback at the 5th overall pick. Yes, we need a body at RB and CB, but we don’t have a critical need for a starter at any of those positions, thanks to signing Wright and Barber returning. RBs can be had anywhere, and we have the makings of a first class OL to be able to plug anyone.
We do however need a LB, and we need one desperately who makes an impact. We have done zilch in FA, and there is no one left out there now that London Fletcher resigned with the skins.
Who makes an impact for the bucs at LB in this draft other than Kuechly or possibly Lavonte David? Frankly, with the amount of steam David is picking up lately from the hype machine, I don’t believe he will make it to the 4th pick in the 2nd round anymore.
I really really hope that someone offers a package to get one of these guys, and we can pick up some extra picks, and get one of the best MLB prospects to come out in recent years, while building more ability to add depth to a team sorely in need of it.
Or, use some of those extra picks to trade back in to the 1st round, get both Kuechly and David, pair them with Mason Foster, and our LBs become talented, deep and young. Past history indicates Dom isn’t afraid to double up, this could be the master plan.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
Also would like to add that Hightower makes a nice Plan B if we trade back further and Kuechly is off the board as well.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
If I were a new Head coach with a 5 year contract, I would draft Kalil, who might be the best OT in Buc history. This would give us the best OL in the NFL. Dominant. What a luxury. Keep Trueblood for depth. Top tier FA running backs would be begging us to let them run behind this line especially on grass.
What a sharp contrast to the other teams in our division that have heavily invested in QB’s and wide receivers. Our best defense would be to grind the clock and keep their high powered offenses on the bench.
Janoris Jenkins will be there at the 2nd pick and LaMichael James in the 3rd. That addresses everything we need for the future except linebacker and we might get lucky with that spot.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
@admin…”Joe”…
Strive to make JBF “the most informative Bucs site online”?…hmm.
And with regard to Thomas 2.2, he makes some sound points, aside from the pretense and inflammatory angles at times. Many of “us readers” of JBF that visit JBF more than “once a week for 10 minutes”, seem to come back to the thought……that how you approach covering “the Bucs” is rather careful, and very focused (at times) on keeping JBF as a whole in the good graces of One Buc Palace, and Dominik altogether, keeping those friendly lines of communication..open, so to speak. Shouldn’t….be concerned about that.
If indeed, Joe was striving to be the most “informative Bucs site online”, then “information” reported journalistically, objectively rather, is often, not rosy, sometimes critical–objectively, and yes, negative while holding people in GM posts (and other posts) with numerous resources at their fingertips….accountable.
Accountable…….to those, that FILL THE STANDS, or don’t.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Great idea Miguel! How much do you want to give up to move up and get him? Next year’s 1st? You are quick to throw Paul Gruber under the bus, he would be in the hall of fame if He played on large market team with a better record.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Chucky did a heck of a job coaching penn up! I don’t think they let Dom have the headsets back then. I feel safe in stating Jon didn’t ask permission for the starting lineup too many times!
He’s a good player and all but seems like his motivation fluctuates with his belt size.
That could be said for the o-line in general for which considerable effort was made to rebuild after the super bowl ……with young players minus faine. One guy literally went nuts.
Perhaps they all will gell this year with our shiny new pro bowler.
We got enough on the o-line. Get somebody to score or who can tackle IMO.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:35 pm
@Stanglassman We won’t have to move up, that’s why it’s such a great pick. Gruber was good, but not great. Experts at the major networks have said Kalil is the best OL prospect they seen in their careers.
He will be in the Hall of Fame.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Bottom line is Trent Richardson will be drafted by the Bucs with the 5th pick in the draft. I am officially guaranteeing it.
Cleveland will not take Richardson, we should all be able to see through their weak attempts to protect Tannehill.
Schiano would love to have a guy like Richardson, who plays a lot like Ray Rice.
I love watching Blount run those breakaway runs, but he hasn’t developed into the feature back you build your offense around. I do say build your offense around because Schiano preaches and executes running the ball. Schiano doesn’t trust Blount to be the guy.
Our defensive backfield needs help. Period. Our linebackers need help. Duh. But Morris Claiborne isn’t going to turn us into a top 10 defense. A cornerbacl that doesn’t know how to spell cornerback and has someone cut the crust off his peanut butter and maple syrup sandwiches, isn’t the answer guys. Sorry. Everyone likes to say “how many top 5 running backs have ever made an impact?” Well how many top 5 cornerbacks have become pro-bowlers? How many top 5 cornerbacks scored a lower wonderlic score than the pick they were chosen with?
I am not a Trent Richardson or nothing guy, but the signs are all there. They passed on Tolbert and Bush for a reason. I would like Keuchly or Kalil about as equally as Richardson. I just have a feeling Richardson is a Lamborgini and Schiano has a lead foot.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
@Miguel
There have been a number of can’t miss prospects, remeber Robert Gallery, Mandrich? He’s a great college pass blocking LT, they didn’t
run much on that team. He would have a lot to prove, let’s see if he even
falls.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
The Brownies passed on Tolbert and Bush for a reason. They literally don’t have a running back. No way Richardson makes it to #5.
April 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Caddy had a big impact on the 05 team.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
@ Miguel
The Browns don’t have Freeman or Vincent Jackson. They don’t even have Mike Williams. No way Richardson is picked at #4. If you’re a Browns fan dust off your Moneterio Hardesty jersey for another year.
April 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm
Saying a college kid will be in the NFL HOF before playing a down is an opinion. But to believe it’s a %100 fact is extremely ludicrous. What in THE Hell ru thinkin?
April 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Since 2000 here is a list of top cornerbacks taken each draft:
2000: Ahmed Plummer #24
2001: Ken Lucas #40 (didn’t even go until round 2, wow)
2002: Quentin Jammer #5 (serviceable CB, but would you give up your current # 5 for him?)
2003: Terence “Toast” Newman #5 (enough said)
2004: DeAngelo Hall #8 (decent, but would you trade your #5 for him?)
2005: Adam “Scrip Club” Jones #6 (yeah right)
2006: Tye Hill #15 (not sure who this guy is)
2007: Darrelle Revis #14 (first all-pro on the list, didn’t go though until 14)
2008: Leodis McKelvin #11 (who the f*ck is Leodis McKelvin?)
2009: Malcolm Jenkins #14 (pretty good safety, not all-pro)
2010: Joe Haden #7 (not bad, but not elite)
2011: Patrick Peterson #5 (the only LSU cornerback worth of this pick)
Guys cornerback isn’t as safe as they let on, especially when the guy is an idiot. Richardson will be picked. Guaranteed.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:07 am
Heh…Thomas accused someone else of having an agenda.
Thomas…you lied right here in this thread and you know exactly where.
.
JOE/ADMIN
Personally, I come to JBF several times a day and spend a while each time…does that mean I’m abnormal?
😉
April 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am
First, I would be shocked if DEKalila dropped to 5, I think the Bucs would almost have to take him, but once again I don’t see it happening.
The Bucs should have their choice between CB, Mo or RB, TR and they will go with Mo. Don’t fall for that Re-Psy crap Barber tryin to pull on everyone. They should have their choice at the #2 RB taken in the 2nd most likely Martin, Boise St,. 3rd rd LB David or LSU safety Tayor (Dom likes to double up) and we will get our OT in the 6th or with one of our 7th rd picks. That’s the way I think it most likely will go down. Should be a great draft, Go Bucs!
April 17th, 2012 at 12:13 am
LOL@Penn has been dominating right side pass rushers comment. He may hold his own at times, but I’ve never seen him totally negate any sort of pressure from his man and that is domination.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:31 am
Go back and look for yourself. Penn shut down the who’s who of pass rushers last year in the first half of the year. No OT continues to dominate when your on the field predicatively passing, down by 30 before the half. That being said I do think he plays better in his pre-Thanksgiving games. Ha!
April 17th, 2012 at 12:40 am
I don’t think Penn is over weight this year. He vividly remembers what it’s like to go against Clayborn through Training Camp. He has to bring his A game early on.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am
@Johnny3.3
Jared Allen comes to mind immediately. He gave up one sack on one of the first plays. Then shut him down the rest of the game. And this is the guy who gained 22 sacks last year by himself.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:03 am
Penn is getting fat! If Kalil falls to us and Claiborn and TRich are gone we should take him and move fatty fat Penn to right… screw trueblood
April 17th, 2012 at 3:35 am
Some of you are so dumb.Penn has said before- he does Cardio all summer, getting ready for the heat at Camp. Once Camp is over- he starts adding strength thru power lifting. His strength is incredible, and how he doninants defensive players.
He Isn’t gaining fat- he’s adding muscle. That’s why he’s an All Pro making millions, and you are clueless zombies.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:45 am
Joe here,
@Bucbelevr – Joe blends information and opinion into just about every post. That doesn’t mean it’s not journalism; it’s just not a style that’s comfortable for everyone.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:51 am
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 — Rich Gannon was on SiriusXM NFL Radio yesterday talking about Dominik during his show. The way Gannon broke down the Bucs, he essentially was giving Dominik a grade of B or B- in how he’s built the Bucs in his tenure. This is the same Gannon who ripped the Bucs mercilessly during last season after being stunned by what he saw during a Raheem Morrris Friday practice. The point it is that support of Dominik, in general, is not some sort of ignorant homer hype you think it is.
April 17th, 2012 at 6:21 am
Joe- thomas thinks supporting anything Buccaneer is homerism!
Me I’m about a on Dom. I think he has drafted some great talent- and gets an for his finds of Undrafted free agents.
But he does some of the strangest moved with Vets!
Signing Michael Clayton and Quincy Black. Not resigning Critical vets like Caddy and Ruud. His rediculious refusal to sign FAs the last two years
And this year- high marks for who he’s sugned(A+), but odd that he has adressed the biggest problem areas yet.
We still don’t have a CB who is good enough to be an NFL starter(Meybe Ronde- but it’s unfair to keep doing that to him!)
We don’t have any Lbers( ok- Meybe Watson)
I’m not watching this team give up 48 points a game again. I’m still scarred from last year!!
April 17th, 2012 at 7:43 am
Joe beats the heck out of Yasinkas the D.B., I would like to see some columns by former players who are a little more critical tho,I miss Bullrush
April 17th, 2012 at 8:02 am
This entire debate comes down to so many variables that it hurts my brain to think about. In past drafts those top picks tend to not vary all that much and frankly the strategy the Bucs employ comes down to one decision.
Are we going to build a winner or are we going to try and fill the seats right now?
There is nothing sexy about drafting a corner. Not even one that is a return man and cover specialist with arms like stretch armstrong.
And so the question becomes do you draft a hot rod on offense and hope to sell some tickets. I would suggest in Tampa this won’t work due to trust issues with the fan base and so you must try to build a winner. And thereby gain that trust and elevate that rock star status.
PICKS
1-Luck 2-RG3 3-Khalil (or Minn is the dumbest franchise ever) 4-Richardson (or the Browns aren’t far behind Minn on the insanity scale) 5-Claiborne (by far the BPA at this spot)
If we want to make a statement draft pick well then we need to go down the board. That’s going to be the reality. Even if Claiborne takes a couple years to develop he’s going to be a good pro regardless of what you all think of his tossed wonderlic and learning disability. It’s just not a sexy pick.
April 17th, 2012 at 8:24 am
@capt tim ..Penn gets way to fat during the season.his belly is sticking way out and no way is that muscle…I think it was the New England game last year when he tried blocking a dude with his rear end…He looked like Ned Beatty in Deliverance …. Penn can be good but he tends to balloon up to 350 – 380lbs. That said our weak link is RT not the LT
April 17th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Donald Penn will come in lighter if he thinks he has to compete for the more prestigious and higher paying LT position. It will help that he’s not on a island out there but playing along side a perennial Pro Bowler Nicks. Kalil will develop quickly alongside Davin Joseph who was solely responsible for Trueblood’s new contract. We can actually use Trueblood in running situations as a blocking tight end instead of K2. This OL will dominate for years to come and contribute heavily to double digit victories every year and playoff glory.
When experienced running backs like Forte or Stephen Jackson are cut loose from their teams, they will hop on a plane to Tampa to beg Mark Dominik for a chance to run behind this OL on the grass at Tampa Stadium.
Josh Freeman will play forever unscathed behind this dominant OL.
April 17th, 2012 at 8:59 am
” …He looked like Ned Beatty in Deliverance ….”
Best line of the week
😉
Penn works harder during the season so he thinks he can eat more. He didn’t even have weight issues until Morris decided he needed more size his first year of head coach.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Guess lb one of you watch ” the worlds strongest men” competition.
They look fat too! Til they twist yer head off like a Budwieser cap.
Just proves that the best argument- loaded with facts- still can’t raise I. Q.s
April 17th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Coach Bear Bryant once said “if size mattered we would have a bunch of cows out there “