Hill Or Miller In The Second Round?
March 3rd, 2012
Before the boo birds come out and start calling Joe and draft guru Justin “The Commish” Pawlowski idiots, let Joe say that he and The Commish are well aware that mock drafts prior to free agency involve a lot of guesswork. But they’re still entertaining and interesting, and good mock drafts can teach you a lot about the draft class.
Loyal JoeBucsFan.com readers know “The Commish” offered his glorious draft coverage here from 2009 through 2011. Now it lives on the pages of CommishOnline.com. His first mock draft of the season came out this week, and here’s a snapshot of the top of the second round with the Bucs grabbing Georgia Tech wide receiver Stephen Hill.
Round 2
33. St Louis Rams – Lamar Miller
RB – Miami
5’11” – 212 lbs – 4.40Comments: Miller is electric and provides a nice complement to Steven Jackson.
34. Indianapolis Colts – Alshon Jeffrey
WR – South Carolina
6’3” – 216 lbs – DNPComments: Jeffrey can give Andrew Luck a nice big target opposite Pierre Garcon…if he stays.
35. Minnesota Vikings – Stephon Gilmore
CB – South Carolina
6’0” – 190 lbs – 4.40Comments: With the Vikings contemplating moving Cedric Griffen to safety, corner is a potential need.
36. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Stephen Hill
WR – Georgia Tech
6’4” – 215 lbs – 4.36Comments: The Buccaneers want a physical offense that takes shots down the field. Well, it’s tough to take those shots unless you have speed like Hill’s on your team.
Joe surely wouldn’t be stunned if the Bucs made this pick, if they don’t land a top-tier wide receiver in free agency.
Assuming Mike Sullivan is not the second coming of Greg Olson, he’ll know how to make use of a guy that can stretch the field. Hill was definitely a head-turner at the combine (for whatever that’s worth); the guy just moves like a elite receiver.
Lamar Miller is one guy Joe will have an eye on come draft day. Joe’s not seeing where the Bucs would pick up an electric scatback in free agency, and if they want that element to the offense, Miller, still just 20 years old, is a very intriguing player.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:00 am
As Joe said, is early, however I think this would be a great pick IF the Bucs also bring in a veteran FA to show all these young guys how it’s done in the NFL.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:02 am
I’m a big “U” fan, if Lamar Miler is there, he would be a great compliment to LGB and has speed for special teams, though he didn’t do a lot at Miami, because they had speed everywhere.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:04 am
If we have to leave Lavonte David on the table for hill I would be upset. now if we can get multiple seconds by trading down and hill and David are available that would be cool.how about we go get Brandon Lloyd and not worry about a receiver in the draft,our guys coached up will be much better,imo
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:17 am
I wouldn’t vomit if we drafted either one of these 2 guys. Both have some “juice” and could provide some excitement to our offense.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:18 am
I’m the opposite of a Miami fan, but, I can recognize good players anywhere. Miller is very talented running back.
Speaking of Canes, I would look at Spence with a later round pick. He is one of those guys who is always around the ball. Needs some weight room work though.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:19 am
That would be a solid two picks for a lack luster roster. I really have to go look at Hill again because he strikes me as a combine warrior. James in the 3rd would be awesome.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:20 am
I have no problem in anything the Commish does. The guy is thorough and awesome. If I’m the Bucs I hire this guy for his knowledge of guys coming out of college. If not, radio stations around the area are missing the boat. This guy deserves his own slot. I for one would put him on the 9-12 slot to compete against a couple guys that have a sports show but don’t talk sports.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:30 am
If they snag Cortland in FA and Claiborne gets taken before our pick we might end up with Richardson. Maybe hill in the second then defense for the remaining picks.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:30 am
Justin has his own show!!! Yeah… He will be on 1010 from 12-3. Best thing 1010 did. There gain is 620’s lose. Good luck Commish. I will be tuned in.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:31 am
Hill would be great, especially if the Bucs had traded down and picked up their MLB for the next 12 years in Luke Kuechly, this guy is the next BIG THING at MLB. He was one of the most productive MLBs in college football in the past 30 years, then he went and showed he was a fantastic athlete too. He’s a leader, he’s smart, he’s instinctive, he’s tough, fast, physical, athletic… don’t you guys wish we hadn’t drafted Gaines Adams and drafted Patrick Willis instead? That’s what I was hoping BEFORE we made the mistake of drafting Adams. Now I hope we don’t make the mistake of passing on Kuechly.
March 3rd, 2012 at 10:05 am
I think we need to go all defense in this draft. Sign mike tolbert, VJ, Nicks/Grubbs, Lofton/Tulloch, Finnegan/Carr, then draft claiborne, and go linebacker and safety and we should be ok.
March 3rd, 2012 at 10:10 am
I see the need to rush the passer–how important it is and how much the Bucs’ have invested up to this point on getting that job done. At the same time they absolutely have to be able to score a healthy average of around 26 points per game in today’s NFL. The Bucs’ must find a way to take the top off of defenses. Pull that 8th guy out of the box. A big and fast athletic freak could only help. If the Browns’ trade for RGIII & Ryan Tannehill tears up his pro-day…maybe the Bucs’ can benefit from some other teams trading up. O & D minded Bucs’ fans could both get what they want.
March 3rd, 2012 at 10:27 am
Commish got 12-3 on 1010? Awesome! His show is always entertaining and imaginative.
March 3rd, 2012 at 10:48 am
1010 should pair him with Shaun King for the football season. I know alot of people here don’t like him. But he has had the pulse of the Bucs better than Peter King, and a lot of other football experts.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:02 am
A lot of great points here, for once nobody is bashing others. I think Hill would be a great addition, but that heavily depends on what we do in free agency, no way could he be the only addition or biggest addition to the WR corps. I did not realize that Lamar Miller is only 20 years old, guessing 21 by the time the season starts, either way extremely young and the type of guy we should be going after. Not a fan of drafting 23 and 24 year old rookies, love them young guys.
@Alstott
Sean Spence is definitely a guy to keep an eye on, he only benched 225 12 times, which is actually pathetic, if i got in the gym on a consistent basis I could do that within a few months. I am hoping he was sick or just had an off day, either way one off season at one buc place he would be putting that up over 20 times so not really worried about that. I think we need to focus on picking up a 4th round pick, really do believe their will be some talent in that round like Spence or other players who had bad combines.
Donta Hightower? If he slips to the second round, I say we pounce on him. He can play in any system and is the definition of a run stopping linebacker, also ran good at the combine and has shown that he can play on passing downs as well, backing into coverage and blitzing the qb.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:04 am
Save the V-Jax big bucks for CB, LG, MLB, in FA. Stephen Hill or TD Tommy Streeter from the U somewhere in this draft!
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:16 am
Hill was a 4th round pick before the combine, now he is a 2nd rounded because he ran a fast 40 time??? Didn’t we already draft the fastest combine player in the 2nd round a few years ago?? Rather have Doug Martin who is a pure football player.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 am
Spences Highlights are great.So what on the bench press thing 2 months with the right trainer and he will be over 20.Dude can flat out ball,has the “u” attitude and can be had in the 3rd.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:24 am
@jvato
Took the words right out of my mouth. ESPN Insider gave him a low 3rd round/high 4th round grade based on his body of work. Doug Martin, Lavonte David or any one of the 1st/2nd round graded corners should still be available when we pick at 36. 36 is practically a 1st rounder anyway.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:36 am
Don’t love the idea of taking a WR early instead of getinng one in free agency, but Hill fits the bill for us. What are 2 thing we’re lacking at WR? Size and speed. All our WRs have aout the same average size or smaller, and they’re all varying degrees of slow possession types. Hill is a legit deep threat with excellend ball skills, and he has a lot of upside to be a “true #1” as fans like to call it.
@jvato Hill is more than a combine freak. He was dominant at GT when the ball was thrown his way. Same goes for Calvin Johnson (who caught passes from WOAT Reggie Ball) and Demaryius Thomas (who also played in the triple option). GT WRs have proven themselves at the next level despite lacking the production of other top WRs. I do like Doug Martin though, and completely agree that he’s just a good football player, kinda like Earnest Graham.
@Brandon and @Alstott Kuechly and Spence are 2 of my most-wanted prospects.
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 am
Go ahead n call me crazy but I still like Vontaze Burfict(MLB) as a 2nd rounder,Robert Turbin(RB) 3RD, Landry Laron(SS) VA and see what ED Grant and Raymond Webber can do with a WR coach that has moves like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzaSIp0zc60&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLF66587E7E84944F6
March 3rd, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Good question i gotta go with Miller
March 3rd, 2012 at 12:42 pm
If we don’t get at least one CB in free agency, we’ll have to get at least two in the draft. If a miracle occurs and Dre drops to us in round two after we take Mo in round one, there is NO WAY we pass on him.
In such a case, if Dre is not there, we may wait till a later round (3 or 5) to take a second CB. That’s assuming we don’t get at least one in free agency.
IF we get at least one CB & one LB in free agency, THEN I see us going with offended with our second pick, but I doubt it will be wide receiver. More than likely, if he is still there, it will be Molk (?) at center or somewhere along the offensives line.
I think we address RB in free agency with a mid-range guy. I do not see a scenario where we take Richardson, even if someone trades up to take Mo before us. CB is such a pressing need that I think we’ll take Dre at 5 if we can’t get Mo.
March 3rd, 2012 at 12:49 pm
And, ifby some chance we lose out on both Mo & Dre by pick 5 (a near impossibility), I think we take Blackmon (?) because Sullivan is a former WR coach who will go verticle more.
Blount can be our main RB this year, especially after finally having an off season training program. I can see us making a bid for Michael Bush. Raiders have used their tag already.
March 3rd, 2012 at 12:57 pm
I actually think Hill will go in the first round. His combine performance was that impressive. Hard to pass on a guy who has the potential to be the next megatron. When he got his chance at the combine he lit it up so I would imagine this guy can play under pressure and with good coaching he could be scary good. If he is there in the second round….I say definitely get him.
March 3rd, 2012 at 1:03 pm
I like to idea of drafting a RB because most are plug n play at that position and can preform at a high level. WR/LB/pretty much all other positions seem to struggle the first couple of yrs IMO. Miller would be a fantastic pickup at our #2. Hill looks like a big, unselfish blocker/serious burner with great hands… What’s not to like? All the mocks will completely change after the a couple of weeks of Free Agency.
Bucs have to pick up at least (3) name brands in FA @ LB, WR, CB, keep Michael Bennett AND have a good draft to be competitive. If Carl Nicks comes available I think you MUST pick him up, even if it costs a player of need at a different position. When the Bucs run the ball, they are successful (see 2010 season). Completely depends on our FA moves.
March 3rd, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Who cares. If they are fresh bodies who have just a speck of talent in their bones, and a willingness to work, then I will welcome whoever it is with open arms. As long as we don’t take a QB, kicker, punter or long snapper with a 1st round draft pick, ANYONE is an upgrade to this roster.
March 3rd, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Don’t forget the Bucs are still kind of high on Alfonzo Dennard. Could get him in 2nd or 3rd.
But i like the idea of trading down for a team more hungry for Richardson/Blackmon.
To set things straight i would be a little un-eased passing on Morris Claiborne. Tho, Dre isn’t that much of a drop off. IMO he also has a higher ceiling. Morris is just more polished.
So Maybe trade back with Cincy get thier 17th & 21st & what a 3rd round. Get Dre Kirkpatrick and Kuechley if he is there or Lamar Miller if he is not. Use our Second round on Hill. Then use both 3rds on LBers. thos LBer are deep this year, still quality in the 3rd.
March 3rd, 2012 at 1:59 pm
My thinking is, instead of getting 1 #1 overall draft prospect in a specific position, When you can potentially get both a RB and CB who are ranked #2 but fairly close to those #1’s overall skills and rankings?
Dre & Lamar > Trent OR Claiborne
March 3rd, 2012 at 2:53 pm
@ 941-Bucs
The problem with that line of thinking is that we need an elite (or nearly elite piece) either offensively or defensively. This roster is full of B+ to C- players. You’ve got to have studs to win consistently in this League. Trent or Mo Claiborne will give you that. Dre and Lamar are less likely to provide that elite/standout ability.
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:09 pm
@SensibleBuc
Not to knock your thought. But remind me again how many players in the top 5 are actually elite in the NFL? Just about anyone in the first round has the potential to be the stud of the pack on the next level.
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Why not take a shot on 2 developing into one. Instead of putting all your chips on one player who may or may not translate to the NFL well?
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:22 pm
The guy’s I’m going to be keeping an eye out for late in the 1st round that might fall to us in the 2nd, Mark Barron, David Wilson, Lavonte David, and Alfonzo Dennard.
I’m counting on them going hard for Vincent Jackson if he hits the market. I wouldn’t be excited at all to see another high draft pick used on a WR. I also expect LB, S, and CB to be a focus in FA, but we’re so shallow at those positions that high picks should still be used there.
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:25 pm
@mbaby
You are crazy. Schiano probably took Burfict off their draft board already.
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:45 pm
@941-Bucs
Just basing it on probability. Part of my draft evaluation is looking at a player’s talent, production, and physical abilities to determine whether he can fit within whatever his NFL team will be doing. Another is balancing the player’s potential for success vs. risk of failure. After looking at all that, you make the pick on your best guess of what the kid will be.
If you’re hiring an employee do you NOT hire #1 guy in his class because the #3 or #4 guy MAY be just as good or better if all other things are equal? Or do you trust your grading system and your evaluation and pick the best person out there?
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:51 pm
@ 941-Bucs
“Why not take a shot on 2 developing into one. Instead of putting all your chips on one player who may or may not translate to the NFL well?”
Because we’ll just keep getting what we’ve always gotten for the past 10 years…1 drafted Pro Bowler.
Getting value in the Draft for the Bucs shouldn’t be about getting multiple solid players (Mike Williams, Freeman, Mason Foster, etc.) anymore. We need 1 or 2 elite/potentially elite playmakers to make the jump to consistent contender. Not having a star/go-to guy makes it harder to win consistently. Everybody has to play at up to their max potential just for us to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.
March 3rd, 2012 at 7:48 pm
@SensibleBuc
I’m thinking it will be two 😛
If Clayborn improves beyond what he accomplished last year, he’s going to have a monster year.
March 3rd, 2012 at 7:49 pm
I do agree with you though, Sensi.
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:51 pm
Would prefer Jeffery over Hill if both are available, would not mind the pick overall.
March 4th, 2012 at 8:29 am
For those of you that think that a few months in the gym will get Spence to be able to bench 225 20X or more… go to the gym. It takes years of hard training and dedication to significantly affect bench press reps.
I recently did a bodybuilding competition and before I started seriously trying to shed weight at 195 lbs, I was able to hit 225 consistently in the 25 rep range. Once I got down to 170, my reps were all the way down to 13 (pathetic for me, but even worse for an NFL LB hopeful). It’s been six months since that competition and only now have I been getting close to my previous rep numbers… and that’s strength that I already had. Building new strength is far more difficult than what I did. If Spence went crazy in the gym for a year, he MIGHT be able to get his reps to 20. But again, from the evidence, it looks like Spence has never been crazy about hitting the gym and with a fat NFL paycheck that won’t soon likely change.
What Spence’s horrible numbers show us is one of three things. 1) ZERO work ethic-the guy hasn’t spent much time in the weightroom to try to better himself-most of these guys don’t suddenly turn it on in the NFL. 2) Major injury-it’s possible he recently had an injured shoulder, pec, or tricep which greatly affected his ability to workout though most guys would normally elect not to bench because of this. 3) He’s extremely weak
Whichever one this is, he’d better hope it was option 2.
March 4th, 2012 at 8:31 am
Luke Kuechly is easily the MLB to come out of the draft since Patrick Willis. There’s no way a smart GM with a huge need for a talented LB should pass him up.
March 4th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
i like hill in the second round he is fast and i think could be a number 1 if coached up good