Earnest Graham Not Seeing Trent Richardson
March 6th, 2012
Yesterday, all-around good guy, Bucs graybeard running back Earnest Graham called in to chat with the czar of Tampa Bay electronic media, J.P. Peterson of WQYK-AM 1010, and had a wide-ranging discussion of all things Bucs.
One of the topics was the possibility of the Bucs drafting Alabama running back Trent Richardson with the fifth overall pick.
In so many words, Graham not only doesn’t see the Bucs pulling such a move, he was uncomfortable with those who compare Richardson to Vikings running back Adrian Peterson and all but said Richardson would not be a dominant running back in the NFL unless he sculpted his body differently.
“You know what, when it comes to running backs, I’m going to tell you: I heard commentators were talking about him and Adrian Peterson in the same breath,” Graham said. “Listen, you know there are very few running backs who can do what Adrian Peterson did, what Carnell Williams did when he was young and a couple of other guys early on. Nobody is the athlete Adrian Peterson is, so, no, [Richardson] is not remotely close. Adrian Peterson is heads and shoulders above everybody, honestly, as far as his explosiveness and his abilities. I haven’t seen anybody close to Adrian Peterson. Fred Taylor, maybe. I don’t think [Peterson] is that guy.
“He is a very solid back, low center of gravity, strong back. Definitely a first round pick. Adrian Peterson is a once in a lifetime guy. Is Trent Richardson? No, I don’t think he is that kind of a guy. If I had to pick, I don’t think I would ever pick a running back in the top 10, unless it was Adrian Peterson.”
Graham went on to elaborate why he is skittish about Richardson dominating the NFL as some believe. First would be that Alabama had a punishing offensive line. There have been a plethora of solid college running backs who, with a dominant college offensive line, ran roughshod over opponents. In the NFL, those holes weren’t always there and they struggled. [Joe’s note: think Larry Phillips of Nebraska.]
Also, Graham said running backs that are bulked up like Richardson need to slim down and drop weight. Graham said most of the better running backs in the NFL are lean, smooth, shifty, explosive backs, not hulking, beastly backs like Richardson.
Of course, a cynic would suggest that Graham doesn’t want the Bucs to draft Richardson because that would all but end his days as a Bucs player.
Good thing that Graham isn’t that kind of a con artist. He’s too honest and too good of a guy to try to put out misinformation in order to save his hide.
Besides, Joe can’t think of a running back like Graham who blew an Achilles at the age of 31 and returned to the NFL, Richardson on the roster or not.
March 6th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Thank you Earnest!! TR3 is good but I don’t get the hype. So is LaMichael James, Lamar Miller….none of them are that much better that the other IMO. Trent played at a running oriented offense at Alabama. All of their RBs look good there. Not worth the #5 pick in the draft. More like 25. Just look at Ingram…he fell to what 28th or something before N.O. traded back into the 1st for him.
March 6th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
So now Graham is an expert on drafting running backs. The knock on Richardson is that he had a dominating offensive line in College. The knock on Peterson who dropped to seventh the year he was drafted was, oh my, he had a dominating offensive line at Oklahoma. I love Graham as a player but what are his credentials as a draft guru?
March 6th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
buddah:
Specifically, what did Graham say that was wrong?
March 6th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I am starting to get the impression that Joe is against the bucs drafting Trent Richardson.
Not sure where I got that from.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
We will be sorry to discount Trent Richardson on draft day.
You better draft yourselves a playmaker, and I hope its Richardson.
Richardson is a 2 Time Nat’l Champ, and put up hise great #’s in the SEC (AAA Minor League Football).
Richardson is going to have an impact similar to MJD/Ray Rice… That is #5 pick worthy IMO.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
stevek:
How did that Heisman Trophy winner from Alabama, you know, the school that won that minor league you speak of, do with the Saints last year?
Joe read all about from readers how he would dominate the NFL and the Bucs should lap him up.
Joe can’t quite recall his Pro Bowl appearance.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
@ Joe.. “How did that Heisman Trophy winner from Alabama, you know, the school that won that minor league you speak of, do with the Saints last year?
Joe read all about from readers how he would dominate the NFL and the Bucs should lap him up.
Joe can’t quite recall his Pro Bowl appearance.”
LOL! This is true.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Ah so now we judge rookies by whether they make the pro bowl.
How many has Dominik drafted so far Joe?
As many as Ingram’s pro bowl appearances.
Interesting.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
“Also, Graham said that running backs who are bulked up like Richardson need to slim down and drop weight. Graham said most of the better running backs in the NFL are lean, smooth, shifty, explosive backs, not hulking, beastly backs which Richardson is.”
Now this is a valid criticism. Trent needs to cut about 10 pounds to get down to 215 lbs.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
I doubt if Earnest Graham knows what the f*** he is talking about. The last two RBs from Alabama that had a lot of hype coming into NFL that were drafted in round 1 are Mark Ingram and Shaun Alexander.
Mark Ingram was a rookie and suffered a season ending injury midway, so its senseless to make an assessment of him. Shaun Alexander on the other hand is one of the most productive RBs of all time.
There have been some mid ranged picks and UDFA RBs from Bama, but no one even compares to Trent Richardson in talent.
And Joe(s), since when are rookies “expected” to make probowl?
March 6th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Joe,
Unfortunately, Minor League Football is determined by the BCS.
Trent Richardson should be the pick, unless Kalil remains or we get a great deal to trade back.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
@ Joe,
Didn’t Trent Richardson run for a TD on your boy, Mo Claibourne’s team?
March 6th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
“I love Graham as a player but what are his credentials as a draft guru?”
Buddha, I think he knows more about what makes a successful running back than anyone in this thread. He gained a long stint on this team just by studying his own craft. I would say that he is a very credible source in what to look for in a running back. What would you say to Graham? “Hey, I realize you went from practice squad to a successful stint on a professional team as a running back, but I don’t think you know squat about what makes a good running back.”
March 6th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
LOL…Marion Motley, Jim Brown, Earl Cambell, Mike Alstott lose weight men for optimal performance streamline that bod!!!…Many of the things Graham has stated ,in my opinion, seem partial towards his rb position and much of whats stated is non factors to ultimately how good RT will become. I am surprised since this guy is a pro, he does not sound like a man of pro scout experience that’s for sure…
March 6th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
RT=TR
March 6th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Drafting Trent Richardson = A BIG SMILE on Josh Freeman’s face… Feed the man and big wins will come…
March 6th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
“there are very few running backs who can do what Adrian Peterson did, what Carnell Williams did”
So, you can’t put Richardson in the same sentence as Peterson, but you can put Caddy in it?!
How is this at all credible? I love EG, but dang, this is awful!
Also, you can’t compare Ingram to Richardson. First of all, Richardson is by all accounts a better prospect, and second Ingram was put in a system that neither truly needed him nor featured him. Weak analogy.
March 6th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
No pick is guaranteed to be good or bad… If I was a betting man, I would bet that TR will be as good or better than any RB from the last 3yrs… Either way you look at it TR or M. Clai will be an upgrade…
March 6th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Joe don’t bother trying to use logic/reason/statistics with the Richardson is God Cult. There is no way he can’t be the next Adrian Peterson, absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any information or opinions to the contrary are just dismissed as nonsense!
The rest of us Buc’s fans not in the cult can have a reasonable discussion about who the Buc’s should pursue in the draft/Free Agency. Besides the same people that “want Trent Richardson @ #5” scoff at going after a top 5 PROVEN Pro bowl Playmaking WR in Mike Wallace with the 5th pick…cause you know picking up a young stud in his prime is just “crazy”! Maybe I’ll be proven wrong & Richardson will win multiple MVPs, and lead the league in rushing, I can at least acknowledge that it’s a possibility; this is something the Pro-Richardson camp cannot fathom “that they may be wrong”. Beware of Zealots.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Love Graham, but didn’t he have to bulk up when he was on the practice squad to make the team?
March 6th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
At #5, any pick that falls to us is a great value pick. Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne, all are areas of need (which we have many). I won’t be too disappointed in any these picks though I’d prefer Claiborne. Richardson would work well since he’s actually a good blocker and runner. Graham is a blocker and a adequate runner while Blount is a decent runner and dreadful blocker.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
So, you can’t put Richardson in the same sentence as Peterson, but you can put Caddy in it?! Exactly feel…this is when I stopped paying attention to EG…Yes Joe, there is much to what EG said is wrong…in my opinion.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
THANK YOU GRAHAM. Of course there are those who want the Bucs to absolutely WASTE a pick on a RB in the top 5. They will say what does Grahma know about drafting a RB….. as if they do.
Bottom line is no way in hell should the Bucs draft a RB in the top 5!!!!!!!!
If they had a phenominal LB corps with depth and DB corps with depth and D-Line with depth and O-Line with depth and WR corps with depth THEN……. maybe…………. IF the RB was world class
Richardson is very good and f he was there in Round 2 pick 5: GO FOR IT
March 6th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Listen, when AP came out, he had his doubters too i.e questions about his running style (too high) not durable, may lack sustained speed etc. But look now there are people like Graham who think there will never be a mortal human to ever be as good as Peterson and certainly not TR… I ‘ll tell you what, if you compare draft analysis of the two, you will see Trent has fewer flaws than Peterson did and would probably be taken ahead of him if both were to come out the same year…Just the facts
March 6th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
I think the Caddy comment refers to his rookie year alone. He was special that year.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
No to Richardson. Period. Moving on.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
i wouldnt mind a running back group of Blount, Richardson, and Graham, and a real fullback…..
March 6th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
No sure thing in this league, but i disagree with the proposition that no RB is worthy of a top ten pick.
Thats just plain silly.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
I’m for drafting Claiborne, everybody compares this guy to Ingram, I think he is closer to emmitt smith in running style, of course he benefited from a great line in Dallas, really, he did it at every level, complete back. Therefore, I am for Claiborne because of our defense needs, but if he’s gone, draft t rich
March 6th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Huh? I didn’t think any intelligent people were talking about Richardson in the top 10. Most mocks I’ve seen have him going in the teens.
Only place I’ve seen him discussed earlier was by a few posters here- same ones that thought we were a playoff team last year!
March 6th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
@ Matthew
T-Rich: 4600 career all purpose yards (rounded up), 43 TDs and 5.8 yards per rush average in college.
AD: 4500 career all purpose yards (rounded up), 42 TDs and 5.4 yards per rush average in college.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Richardson is going to be really really good. It would be a shame to let this kind of talent pass us by.
We need to wake up, and draft a playmaker at # 5. I want a guy that is going to touch the ball 20-25 times a game and will make us a winner again.
Richardson + FA Defenders= best possible chance for playoffs.
Claibourne + another kicker in FA= 10 straight losses all over again!
March 6th, 2012 at 5:39 pm
It’s amazing to me that so many people are against the Bucs taking an elite talent. The Bucs need great players everywhere, don’t get so caught up in what position they play. I’ve seen every excuse in the world now as to why the Bucs shouldn’t take Richardson. “His Oline was great!” “Ingram sucked for the Saints!” “Superbowl winning teams haven’t had a great/high drafted RB lately!”.
I just don’t get it. 1. If you looked at most of the top RBs in the NFL, I am sure they played with a pretty good to great Oline in college. 2. What does Ingram have to do with Richardson? Richardson was better when Ingram was there and he had a better season than Ingram ever had after he left. 3. Unless Freeman is going to turn into Eli Manning or Tom Brady overnight I am not sure why anyone is worried about the Superbowl.
It’s not like Earnest Grahams opinion on Draft prospects matters anyway. He proved that when he put Caddy in the same sentence as Peterson. Cadillac had three good games in his career and they just happened to be his first three.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Yes, Alabama does have a very good Oline. However, Dlines (and overall defenses) in the SEC are the best in the country, by far. As for the Ingram comparison, Ingram was hurt most of the year last year, so his fate has not been decided. I think it is wise to be real careful to call him a bust (I know that’s not what you are doing directly, but you are insinuating it), before he ends up killing us for the next 10 years. I’ll keep my mouth shut, and just hope you are right.
I have a family member who is one of the doctors for the team (University of Alabama). He has been telling me ever since Richardson stepped on campus that he is head and shoulders better than Ingram (this opinion was shared by most of the coaching staff). His entire college career has backed up that claim. Ingram was never considered a top 5 (or 10) pick, as Richardson is.
Graham’s opinion certainly holds merit. He knows much more about being an NFL running back than I do, and I doubt we will draft Richardson anyway. However, if we do, I feel very strongly it will be (at worst) a solid pick. Barring injury, I can’t see him not having a very good career. I just can’t wait for the draft so we can stop having this discussion.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Because after all Graham at 5’9, 230 is a smooth lean, explosive back. Um yeah why dont we ask Colt McCoy if drafting RG3 is a good move. Doesnt matter how upstanding a citizen Graham is , of course he doesnt,want another back drafted. As far as drafting TR, I am on,the fence , if,the knees okay , yeah it would be a good move. I see some of,the same attributes with him as with Marshal Faulk, good blocker, pass catcher and runner, not as much as comparison with his backfield mate who’s slower, smaller at splits carries in New Orleans with an offense that throws the ball 40/45 times a game.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Bones:
It’s very simple if you think in terms of real football and not fantasy football:
1) The Bucs have a running back who is proven to run over four yards a carry.
2) The Bucs are garbage/have holes/question marks in the following positions on defense:
MLB
OLB
CB
CB
SS
WS
(In his two years in the NFL, Cody Grimm has suffered season-ending injuries to his legs. If we b!tch about GMC not being on the field, which so many do on this site, then so too should people b!tch and be concerned about Grimm. Tanard Jackson fell off the map the last two months of the season).
The Bucs defense in the back seven was horrible by any standard. The Bucs already have a productive running back. Throw in the fact drafting a running back is a bad investment (short shelf live) and the best running backs in the NFL are by far dominated by guys off the street and the drafted later in the draft, it’s crystal clear why the Bucs drafting Trent Richardson would be the height of irresponsibility when the defense was a complete sieve and Freeman doesn’t have a No. 1 receiver to throw to.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
@Capt. Tim,
Perhaps you should watch NFL Network more if you don’t think anyone is putting him in the top 10. Virtually everyone on their panel puts him in the top 10.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
I would almost guarantee that we’re looking at a commitee backfield going forward. I just can’t see a RB being the pick. I won’t be overly pissed off if Richardson is the pick so long as Claiborne is off the board at #5. This draft has a surplus of complementary RB’s, but it only has maybe 2 or 3 actual press Corners.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
gotbbucs:
This draft has a surplus of complementary RB’s
LaMichael James, round three. The Bucs need speed in the backfield to help Blount.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
I agree with everything that @BonesMahoney said except the reference to Eli Manning. If Claiborne is off the board, Trent Richardson should be the pick. Just my opinion. Everyone I know has said Richardson was the better RB between him and Ingram. That comparison doesn’t really hold water. Elite talent is ELITE TALENT. And we don’t have that at ANY position. I’m a HUGE Blount fan, by the way. Having two potentially devastating RBs in the backfield would only help our cause.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
I think Richardson is a great back and would love to have him, however not with the 5th pick and not with so many holes, plus we already have Blount. I respect Graham but what is he talking about with Richardson’s size. Last time i check MJD, Ray Rice, Michael Turner, are pretty yoked up, especially their legs. Not sure what Graham is talking about.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
Joe,
What happens when that RB that averages 4 yards per carry gets hurt? What happens if it wasn’t the coaching staff and he really can’t catch the ball? What happens if he continues to fumble? What happens if he continues to show up late to meetings (as has been rumored)? Then who do we go with? You think LaMichael James can carry the load by himself? He couldn’t even do that in college. You need 2 good RB’s nowadays, and some depth behind them. You can’t put all our trust in Blount. You can’t do that for any RB. Every great RB in the NFL has a very good partner in the backfield, with the possible exception of Peterson (although he had Taylor in the past).
I also love how people continue to say we can get great RB’s late, so we should just ignore running backs earlier. So we should just turn our noses up to obviously more talented players, simply because RECENT history has shown that there are good RB’s to be had late? What about all the RB’s taken late who never amount to squat? You do realize that happens FAR more often than getting good ones right? Nobody every mentions that. Just because a few teams got lucky (ourselves included), doesn’t mean it’s that easy. Do you really think that we could get lucky twice??? Brady was drafted in the sixth round and he’s the best in the league. By that same logic, maybe all teams should wait until round 6 before they draft a QB? Hell, why don’t we just give away all of our early round picks, just so we can load up with great players late, since apparently that’s the way it works in the modern NFL.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Blount has also proven he can’t catch, block, and fumbles frequently.
Not to mention hes a moron, a thug, and quit last year.
The man will never hold up.
March 6th, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Also, what if James is picked before round 3? Believe it or not, that could happen. It happened a couple years ago with Dexter McCluster (who is a very similar back to James). He was supposed to be there in round 3, but he was taken early in round 2. Then what do we do?
March 6th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
Hawaiian Buc:
So we know Richardson is going to be as good or better than Blount; we already know he will average four yards a carry or more?
If that defense isn’t fixed — and there’s a lot to fix — Richardson may get eight carries a game because the Bucs will be down by four touchdowns at halftime.
The Bucs drafting Richardson would be a like a homeowner who has a half-dozen leaks in his roof ignoring that, and instead going out and replacing his HDTV that is already working.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
eric:
Funny, Joe has seen him catch in practice.
Neither could Alstott, but he learned; it’s a coachable trait.
Joe remembers Alstott had fumbleitis too, but he worked on it and cured himself.
Not saying Blount is Alstott but Joe has never seen people want to rid themselves out of such a productive running back, while the defense is simply ablaze in flames.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Joe,
We spent 1st round and 3rd round picks on CB to no point of ripening success.
Time to sure up the CB position, and LB position in FA.
Time to take a deep breath and and ponder on the idea of Trent Richardson.
Schiano is all about having “Buc Men”. Richardson is going to be a BEAST at the NFL level, we are gutless for not taking a chance on him in the draft.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
@ Hawaiian
If Richardson makes it past the Bucs at #5, which he should, he will fall out of the top 10, and if the Chiefs have any sense, that’s a big IF, he will fall bellow 15. The only thing stopping this from happening is if another team is as stupid as the Saints and gives up picks to trade up for a RB.
Just wait, the closer we get to the draft, the further he’ll fall down on “expert’s” mock drafts, unless of course he runs a 4.4 flat 40, then all bets are off.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
“Not to mention hes a moron, a thug, and quit last year.”
Talibsayswhat?
March 6th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
What Joe said. Summed it up perfectly.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Don’t get me wrong- I think he is a good back.
But we need two CBs and Two LBers, or we will go 4-12 next year.
And that still leaves us with two below average Safties!
Blount will be a better pro back than Richardson. All he needs is an off season to work on blocking schemes.- that ussually takes a couple years anyway. Aaron Rodgers is right about Blount. And Graham is right about Richardson.
Good pick- just not a good pick for us- we have a back, and 7 holes in the defense!
March 6th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
stevek:
If the Bucs get five starters in free agency to play linebacker/defensive back (not holding breath) Joe could sort of see Richardson. Sort of. But at that point Joe would select Blackmon.
Recent history of first round running backs is just not good, especially shelf lives. One would hope the fifth overall pick is around 10-12 years and running backs rarely are.
Much more bang for the buck drafting a running back late. Just don’t see Richardson being the next Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson. Joe didn’t think he was all that much better than Montee Ball. Seriously.
No, Joe wouldn’t pick Montee Ball at No. 5 either.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Joe,
By that same logic, how do we know Claiborne will be a great CB? Since when are CB’s in round one sure things??? One CB does not fix a defense. Besides, there are several good corners available in free agency. It doesn’t matter who is our CB, if we don’t get better LB play, we aren’t stopping anyone. If we don’t get some fire power on offense, we aren’t scoring on anyone.
I wouldn’t say Blount is an HDTV. He’s more like that big arse old school rear projection TV that you have to hit on the top over and over until it turns on. He has yet to prove he is dependable. I agree he probably wasn’t used correctly last year (I was screaming at my TV all last season to put him in the game and give him the damn ball), but what if it there was a legit reason why? What if he wasn’t putting the work in to learn the playbook? What if he really can’t catch the ball. What if he really can’t stop fumbling? What if he can’t stay healthy? We are royally screwed if Freeman has to drop back 40 times a game. I don’t care what we do on defense, that is a recipe for disaster. We don’t have the Saints or Packers offense. We need to run the ball, and then run the ball some more. We are going to need 2 very good RB’s and some depth to do that. We don’t have the horses to throw the ball with the big-time offenses in the NFL.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Capt. Tim:
Remember the coaching staff that tried to groom Blount is the same lot that saw fit to run the infamous Benn’d-around play every friggin game.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
FLBoyInDallas Says:
March 6th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
No to Richardson. Period. Moving on.
Did you really think that was going to work?
March 6th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Hawaiian Buc:
This will be Joe’s last comment on this subject.
The Bucs have HOLES in the secondary.
The Bucs do not have a hole at tailback.
It’s as simple as that.
If you are of the belief the Bucs are worse off at running back than secondary, Joe has nothing to say.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
“It’s amazing to me that so many people are against the Bucs taking an elite talent.”
Richardson is not even in the NFL yet and people are already calling him elite lmao. This is way over the top ridiculous. Funny as hell but absolutely ridiculous.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
We need multiple corners. We need multiple linebackers. We need multiple safeties.
The defense is a disaster right now.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
everyone has their opinion. my opinion is we should draft trent richardson. him and blunt would be an excellent one two punch. look what happened when we passed on adrian peterson because we had cadillac….
March 6th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
If they don’t shore up the back 7 that plays vs Brees/Ryan/Newton, Freeman will have to pass all game. Won’t even matter who’s at RB.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
And if Claiborne is gone, I’d take Kuechly over Richardson.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
There is no doubt in my mind that Richardson will be a good NFL RB. Will he be elite? Maybe. But he isn’t going to play until he is 35. A CB has a much longer shelf life. All the arguments in favor of Richardson can be applied to Claiborne. I’d be happy with any of the following, ranked from least happy to happiest: Richardson, Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne. I would be ridiculously ecstatic if they landed Wallace, but that isn’t likely.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Hawaiian- they all predicted Ingram top 5 last year also. Until the last week. RBs don’t go that high. Nor should they. It’s a nice thought, but a shut down CB has way more value- and longevity- than a RB in a passing league!
The NFL is Pass happy. Great RBs don’t carry teams the way they used to. The league has evolved, and so has drafting!
Don’t remember Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, or Mark Ingram carrying their team to the ring lately.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Joe/admin,
The “HOLES” in the Secondary can be filled by FAs with front loaded contracts, as the Bucs have $60 million in resources left untapped….
Were Talib and Myron Lewis underachieving/dissapointing draft picks?
Better fix the inept talent evaluation with a proven commodity.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Hawaiian
You’re right, with all the “what-ifs” and having two prospects that grade out equally, we should probably consult the NFL draft positional value chart. CB > RB.
There, that was easy. Not to mention the massive need we have at CB.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
ALSTOTTSMART says: “If they don’t shore up the back 7 that plays vs Brees/Ryan/Newton, Freeman will have to pass all game. Won’t even matter who’s at RB.”
Nailed it.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Keuchly = Mark Simoneau. No thanks.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
@ Meh
Bingo! We have a winner.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
@Capt Tim Arian Foster was undrafted too. Don’t need to use a high pick.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
Joe- agreed. Also remember he was signed at end of training camp from Titans, then locked out the next season!
Not much one on one time to adapt to NFL.
Blount is a great back, and with coaching, will become a dominant back. To draft a player at his spot- brrrr- just shows a real lack of fundamental Football knowledge. Richardson would sit behind Blount- as both of them watch teams scorch The field with long TDs. Exactly like last year. Blount or Richardson aint gonna see any field time, when we are down 42-0.
Again, just like last year!
March 6th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Yeah, we did it once, why not rinse lather and repeat?
We picked the late Gaines Adams with the 6th overall pick, and left Adrian Peterson on the board. Whoops.
The next best thing since Adrian Peterson comes out in the draft, and we whiff again bc we just don’t learn from our mistakes.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
stevek:
While you are accurate, it’s also revisionist history.
The Bucs were in salary cap hell at the time and the Bucs already had Caddy (first round cash) on the roster. There was no way Bruce Almighty was going to tie up that much cash on the very same position.
Only Matt Millen would pull such a stunt (he had three, first round picks at wide receiver in, what, four years?)
It was much like now: Then, the Bucs needed a pass rusher; had holes on defense and already had a running back.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
I have recently read mock drafts with Stephen Hill not only going in the 1st round, but as high as #7. We need Walace!
March 6th, 2012 at 6:36 pm
Joe,
Thanks for the clarity.
I miss the good o’l days of “salary cap hell”.
I thought putting in 50% of the maximum would be more of a “salary cap hell”.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
IF Stephen Hill is a #7 pick, than by golly, Trent Richardson is a #5 pick.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Capt. Tim,
That’s ridiculous, nobody on that panel predicted Ingram to be top 5 last year. That’s flat out wrong, and I think you know it. I’m not going to sit here and argue with false facts, there’s no point.
As for great RB’s not getting rings, how many great CB’s have taken their teams to rings? How many does Revis have again? How about Nnamdi? Did they even carry their teams to winning records last year? Refresh my memory on that one. How many great CB’s does NY have? Wasn’t their secondary considered a weakness, which is why they drafted a CB in the first round last year? He contributed a mighty 14 tackles and one INT last year. That’s obviously the reason they won it all, from great CB play. What about NE? They used a WR as a CB last year and they seemed to do okay. So go ahead and twist around the facts to prove why CB’s are more important.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
@ stevek
Agreed SteveK.
This entire argument revolves around drafting for “need” vs. drafting the best player available at your pick (thereby maximizing the value of your pick).
T-Rich is the higher rated player by a hair over Claiborne. He’s in a position to have a greater, more tangible impact on the game in four phases (rushing, passing, receiving, pass blocking and perhaps returning). His greatest attributes are his work ethic and determination, something our team clearly lacks.
Also, the corner class is deep in the Draft this year. Why not have your cake (T-Rich in the 1st) and eat it too (getting a corner w/a 1st rd grade in the 2nd rd)? ESPN gave 3 corners 1st round grades, 5 have a 2nd rd grade, and 9 have a 3rd round grade.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:44 pm
We need Vincent Jackson. That is a real possibility, unlike the pipe dream for Wallace. I am really hoping we get Jackson.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
Oops my post got cut off…
Meanwhile there are 8 total running backs with a top 3 round grade.
The smart move would be to maximize this opportunity to get an actual difference maker on offense in an offense-first league.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
@ J 2.0
Agreed. V Jax or Mike Wallace would be great additions. I believe in our wide receivers. Bringing in 2nd tier WRs like Pierre Garcon or Manningham or Eddie Royal would just be redundant.
March 6th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
There is logic to what EG says. Also at his age he knows that the bucs will either acquire someone on the FA market or in the draft. If EG can prove he is back, he will have a home if for nothing else than special teams.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:01 pm
I personally think the back out of cincinnati will prove to be better than trent.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:08 pm
Dream Scenario:
Wallace for the 5th Pick FA Finnegan or Carr/Nicks in Free Agency
Favorable 2nd:
Claiborne with the 5th pic FAk Vincent Jackson/Nicks
3rd:
Blackmon with the 5th Pick FA Nicks/Finnegan or Carr
March 6th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Anybody here think we have the capabilities (as currently constructed) to be a top 10 offense? Anybody here think the Saints, Panthers, or Falcons have a top 10 defense? So why again is it a no-brainer that we should spend ANOTHER first round pick on defense? So you think it’s feasible to be able to consistently defeat 3 very good (if not great) offenses without having a very good offense ourselves? You guys think drafting a CB is going to all of a sudden shut down Drew freaking Brees? How are we going to be able to score? How many games did we hit 30 points last year? Zero. We only hit it 3 times in 2010. When was the last time we had 40 points in a game? I’m sure it’s happened since, but I can’t remember it happening since the Super Bowl. The Saints scored 40 points 7 times last year!!! Think about that. We need playmakers on offense to be able to compete. Obviously defense wins championships, but you can’t win if you can’t score. We need major help on both sides of the ball, but we have invested so much money on defense, it’s time to invest some on offense too. We have our first franchise QB, and he needs weapons. So it’s not a slam dunk to me that we should draft someone who can shut down Lance Moore.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
I am for Tampa trading out of the number 5 pick, since we have so many needs.
Perhaps some team will give up a lot for that pick, and we can still get the help we need. Talib may be a much better player with a no nonsense coach, and a pass rush.
Any secondary in the NFL will be exploited, w/o a pass rush, and we had none last year.
Plus, Foster was lost calling the D Plays, and offenses were adjusting, but we weren’t.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Yeah I like the idea of Wallace I go back and forth on this sometimes I think it is the best possible scenario and then other times I think VJax and Claiborne would be better. Right now I am in the school of thought of Vjax and Claiborne. I would still like the Wallace move.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Hawaiian Buc Says:
March 6th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Anybody here think we have the capabilities (as currently constructed) to be a top 10 offense? Anybody here think the Saints, Panthers, or Falcons have a top 10 defense?
Good point, but still doesnt mean we need to draft Richardson.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
@J 2.0,
No it doesn’t. My point is that it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t either. My first choice would actually be to draft Blackmon, but I get a little irritated that some people think it is so asinine to draft Richardson. None of us are GM’s. Even GM’s make mistakes on draft picks. I don’t give a damn who we draft, as long as he makes us better. It’s going to take more than a good pick at #5 anyway, as we have far too many holes. I just don’t see the logic that a CB is going to solidify our defense. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I’m just a fan. It doesn’t matter how much NFL Network I watch, I’m still just a fan. I have no illusions that I could be an NFL GM. But neither is anyone else on this site. It’s all a matter of opinion. It can’t be that ridiculous to draft Richardson, if there are many experts that say we should. Again, they could be wrong, but they could also be wrong to pick Claiborne. Only time will tell. I just wish everyone would remember that and stop making as if drafting Richardson would be the dumbest pick in the history of the NFL.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Sure, let’s spend a #5 pick on a RB that will share half of the load with Blount. Now that makes perfect sense…….NOT! If we draft Richardson we keep Blount for what…depth? And what do we pay him for that? C’mon, I know you guys have the answer. Sure they can offer him a meager salary to keep him and he can’t negotiate with other teams but do you expect him to perform when he knows he’s just a backup and he already has questionable work ethic. But I’m sure Trent’s knees will hold up and we’ll have no worries right? I mean, no one ever gets injured in the NFL.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Joe, good point you made about Cody Grimm. Bucs fans bust Gerald McCoy’s chops for not being on the field all the time. Well, Grimm can’t stay on the field either and he gets a pass.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Let’s just hope we are afforded the oppurtunity to draft Trent Richardson with the # 5 selection.
Last time I checked, Eli Manning beat Tom Brady in the “Big Game” twice.
Two things stick out to me about the Giants:
1. A 4-3 DEF front from hell
2. A dual RB system
If I have to endure another “checkdown to Lumpkin” for another year, I will go insane.
Trent Richardson is the answer.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
GMC is 8th highest paid player in the game……
C. Grimm is a 7nth round pick….
Due to our current state of not appreciating the salary cap, I hate to have almost 20% of the team’s salary tied up into one guy.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
Everbody may get what they want because if the Bucs take Claiborne with the 5th pick in the 1st round, Trent Richardson may be there for the 4th pick in the 2nd round. PFT has just announced that he will not perform on his Pro Day scheduled for Thursday, either on the advice of his agent or a setback on his recovery from knee surgery.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Bobby,
Just like LGB’s knee held up after that hurdle went wrong at SF?
We need more than 1 option at RB.
Blount is limited, but very effective at his skill set.
Richardson is a gem, and we know he can handle the spotlight and sharing a role with another back.
Richardson is a game changer, and he would be a better pick for the Bucs than Mo Claibourne.
Why can’t we make Free Agency our bitch, and fix the secondary?
March 6th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
No SteveK, it’s the Giants CB’s that won them the championships! We just don’t get it like all the other GM’s on this site. It’s time we see the light. CB’s win championships, that’s been proven time and time again.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
CORRECTION: Alabama Pro Day is Wednesday, March 7th.
March 6th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
Could the Bucs trade their 1st round picks to some team picking at the end of the first round, plus multiple later round picks or 1st round pick next year and then give up the late first round pick to get Wallace? Or, does it have to be the Bucs original #5 pick that is given up for him?
Could the Bucs get Wallace plus other draft picks for the #5 pick?
March 6th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
Just to prove a point, the top 2 free agent CB’s in this class are Brandon Carr and Courtland Finnegan. They were drafted in the 5th and 7th rounds, respectively. Yet everyone believes RB’s are the only position that you can get quality late???
March 6th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
@hawaiian buc,
I agree with you 100%
The Saints didnt even stop at Ingram, they got sproles too! Weapons galore for Drew. Falcons got Jones.
Why cant we get our franchise QB some weapons! Give the kid a fighting chance. Nobody can stop NO, how many did they rack up on the Giants?
March 6th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
@hawaiinbuc,
If you are for drafting Blackmon, why not sign Wallace and foregoe the pick. A fact of the matter is that no matter how great these prospects are 50% of all 1st rd picks end up being busts, the other 50% is maybe 30% serviceable players, 15% really good players, 5% chance of drafting a super star.
March 6th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
I don’t know, I think it makes much more sense to try to catch up to the Saints by drafting our offensive players in rounds 3-7. That way we are relying on our obviously superior scouting department to find diamonds in the rough. Why would we actually take guys that everyone knows about, when we can go out and get more guys like Blount? God forbid us actually considering drafting the best player available, because we all know CB is the answer to all of our problems. If only we had a great CB last year, we could have very easily won 5 whole games.
March 6th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
@J 2.0,
I wouldn’t be completely against that. However, I think Blackmon has the potential to be a better WR (again, just my opinion, I’m no scout or GM). Wallace is very good and would probably fit in very nicely here, but I don’t see him as a top tier WR. If we draft Blackmon #5 (or any player at #5), they better be top tier for their position. If we had a middle of the first round pick, then I would be screaming for Wallace. I just don’t know about #5.
March 6th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
All of you have to remember we’re talking about MD and the Bucs. From what I’ve seen from his drafts is that he drafts for need over best player available IMHO. We will either draft CB in both the 1st and 2nd round or LB in the 1st and 2nd round from Don’s track record.
March 6th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Sorry for all the posts guys. It’s pouring down rain here in Hawaii for the last few days, and I am bored out of my mind. It sure beats talking about Peyton Manning, which is all ESPN and NFL Network is going to talk about until he signs with someone.
March 6th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
95 or so posts by guys whose greatest athletic endeavor is twice daily ball scratching. 93 or so of those posts telling EG, a professional running back inthe NFL, that he doesn’t know jack. Aaaaaa……message boards! Don’t ya love em
March 6th, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Hey, I played Div II college baseball. I think I know a little something about pro football.
(sarcasm)
March 6th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Lucas- lol
Hawaiian- I’m all for getting Josh some weapons. But the first 5 picks in the draft are for QBs, CBs, DTs,Des,and Wrs- with a LT now and again.
Make a short story of this- I bet Richardson doesn’t go until the Teens, at the earliest. Make a bet he goes sooner.
That will tell the story on his great talent.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
I must have missed the memo that top 5 picks are reserved for CB’s. I would love to know who was the last top 5 CB taken? How many championships does he have? I honestly have no idea, because I can’t think of any CB’s taken that early. I can think of a few RB’s that have been, and have had Hal of Fame careers, but no CB’s come to mind. Perhaps those GM’s missed that ever so important criteria you have provided.
I won’t make a bet on when he goes. I just hope if we don’t draft him, he is drafted outside the NFC South, preferably outside the NFC altogether. However, that does not tell the story on his great talent. The story is told in how he does over the next 10 years.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
Hawaiian “you might not” think Wallace is elite but with all do respect you would be misinformed. He’s outperformed Megatron & other big name WRs in many key statistical categories & all of this on a team built around the run/defense, with a QB who’s missed several games due to injury.
“Only two receivers in the past 30 years have gained more receiving yards and scored more touchdowns during their first three years than Wallace, and they make for pretty good company: Randy Moss and Jerry Rice.”
March 6th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
The table below lists the three-year totals for Wallace, those receivers, and other notable players, ranked by receiving yards:
RECEIVERS OF NOTE
Rank Player Team Rec Yds Yds/Rec TD
1 Anquan Boldin ARI 259 3402 13.1 16
2 Mike Wallace PIT 171 3206 18.8 24
3 Larry Fitzgerald ARI 230 3135 13.6 24
4 DeSean Jackson PHI 172 3135 18.2 17
5 Calvin Johnson DET 193 3071 15.9 21
6 Hakeem Nicks NYG 202 3034 15.0 24
You might not know a whole lot about Wallace and that’s okay, but you are off if you don’t think he’s elite.
Check this out to read more
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/18362/free-agent-preview-mike-wallace
March 6th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
I think everyone is finally getting my point I have been driving home for 3 weeks now. Top 5 pick are way overvaulued.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
So is spelling, apparently.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
GMC is the highest paid player because of where he was drafted, there is a reason why there is now a rookie salary in place.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
JOE SAYS:
Earnest Graham Not Seeing Trent Richardson
What does Earnest’s dating life have to do with anything???
March 6th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
That’s pretty good numbers Matthew. Perhaps I should reconsider my evaluation of him.
March 6th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
A few weeks ago I mentioned that there was a very, very slight chance the Lions would release Calvin Johnson because he is due over $20 million and they are having cap issues.
This morning PFT did a story about keeping an eye on the Lions situation.
Now, I realize I’m dreaming that he gets cut…it would be the dumbest move of all. But IF he was, would he be worth 20-25 million per year? Or maybe $15 million? How much?
March 6th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
$15$ million, with incentives to 25$ million w a Super Bowl ring.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
Matthew
Those numbers on Wallace are not bad.
Let’s call him Player A
And then I want to compare him to Player B
This comparison is the same you did…the first 3 years of their career:
Player A Receptions: 171 (Average per Game: 3.6)
Player B Receptions: 215 (Average per Game: 5.2)
Player A Receiving Yards: 3,206 (Average per Game: 66.8)
Player B Receiving Yards: 3,000 (Average per Game: 73.2)
Player A Yds/Rec: 18.8
Player B Yds/Rec: 14.4
Player A Touchdowns: 24 (Average per Game: 0.5)
Player B Touchdowns: 24 (Average per Game: 0.6)
Player A Games Played: 48
Player B Games Played: 41
Player A Age: 25
Player B Age: 28
___________________________________________
Now for the surprise…I’m not arguing against your case. As you can see, Player A (Wallace) is pretty close to Player B. Wallace played more games and is 3 years younger (a huge plus).
In regard to Player B…he had one year with 760 yards (3rd year), and averaged 1,096 yards per year in his remaining 5 years of playing time.
Player B is Colston.
Wallace has had good numbers. We don’t know if he will do as well as Colston when he has put in a total of 6 years…but he is certainly on his way to it. With two 1,000+ years, he has proven he is not a fluke.
That said…
Mike Williams fell just short of a thousand in his first year. He had 771 last year. If he would have to get 1,265 yards this year in order to break the 3,000 mark in year three…something neither of the other two have done (the 1,265 in a single season I mean).
Can he do it? Possibly…it’s not impossible, but it is unlikely. Especially if we sign a true #1 receiver. Still, if he breaks 1,000 this year, I would say he’s overcome his challenges after having a down 2nd season.
_____________________
As to Wallace:
At this point, I would take him or Colston. Wallace is younger, so it would probably be best to go with him…but Colston is more proven…and we would still get 4-6 years out of him if he stays healthy. Of course, Colston has had surgeries, but they have not slowed him down much.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Graham has been a running back in this league for years now, also played fullback pretty well. I’d say that pretty much qualifies him as an expert when it comes to running backs. Yes it is an opinion, but one that can be backed up solidly. I agree with Graham, like Richardson, but no way I’d waste a top 10 pick on him regardless of what Mel Kiper says. I hope the Bucs can trade the pick, honestly, and get a LB, CB or some defensive help. I do feel that Blackmon could be worthy of a top 5 pick, but I wish he was a little taller like megatron, but he still has mad skills.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Pete, why do you have to write a novel on every post??? Dude Pullease.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Pete the problem with your comparison is you are comparing a WR who is in a pass happy system, that “several” WRs have had career years. Colston got to play with the all-time single season passing yardage leader; Wallace did not. He played with a far less traditional passing QB (albeit still a great QB). Wallace is younger & unlike Colston has “ZERO” injury history, something Colston has had a lot of! Oh and don’t forget that Colston played 29 plus of his games in a Dome while Wallace had to play in the elements not conducive to pass happy teams.
As to your claim “Colston” is more proven!?! That’s a made up statistic. Wallace has outperformed & is far more efficient then Colston at this point their careers. Even with your best shot of trying to twist the stats, they don’t favor you. Wallace is Elite…Colston is good but is injury prone/may be a system WR.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:46 pm
You have successfully swayed me Matthew. Good job.
March 6th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
I’m with Joe here. Don’t buy an HDTV with holes in the roof!
Claiborne>Kalil>Blackmon>Richardson
March 6th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
Very good post/assessment, Matthew.
March 6th, 2012 at 11:10 pm
Agree with Matthew. Wallace will fetch a higher price tag than Colston. Colston is steady but, and especially at this point in his career, is not elite. Wallace is. Is he worth the #5 overall pick? Not in my opinion although I can imagine a worse scenario. If we were the 49ers with a glaring need at WR but not many other holes to fill, then I would be sending the Glazers and Rockstar emails daily. We just have too many holes to fill to part with the kind of money necessary as well as giving up our 1st rounder. I’m still on the Claiborne wagon hoping that he is still there for the taking. CB’s of MO’s skillset are far and few between. Also is a bigger need than WR.
March 6th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Cmurda I like Claiborne too & will be okay if we go that route. However, VJAX will come at a big contract too as a FA. The argument I like with Wallace is you guarantee an impact player/#1 WR with the 5th pick for the next 5 to 6 years & give Freeman a major weapons upgrade. All draft picks are prospects so while I really do like Mo Claiborne who knows if he’ll ever be as good of a pro that Wallace is at his position of CB. The statistics would point to no. Although, I’d be glad to see Mo buck the odds & turn into a top 5 shut down corner if we draft him.
March 6th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
@stevek
“Last time I checked, Eli Manning beat Tom Brady in the “Big Game” twice.
Two things stick out to me about the Giants:
1. A 4-3 DEF front from hell
2. A dual RB system”
Were you trying to toss your arguement right out the window on purpose? Brandon Jacobs was a mid round pick and I don’t even know if Bradshaw was drafted.
March 6th, 2012 at 11:36 pm
Teams picking in the top 5 of the draft are in no condition to be using that pick on a luxury player. It’s really that simple. If our defense was even remotely good, then maybe I could see using this pick on offense, but we got murdered by bad teams last year and it wasn’t just because players were slacking off. We really are that bad on the back seven. Barring some major FA moves to solidify that side of the ball, our first four picks should probably be used on LB’s and DB’s.
March 6th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Can’t believe this thread is still running!
Guys, I salute you for your passion and dreams for this team!
Really cool. Hope the Glazers get off that wallet, and bring some talent here. This level of dedication deserves it!
But- just my opinion- Richardson with a recently repaired knee goes late teens, to twenties.
Wallace is a great talent. He’s looking for a contender
He wouldn’t touch this place with a ten foot pole!
4-12 last year. New, small college coach with no track record. Freeman looking like a mechanical nightmare last year, and his position coach is -PJ FLECK???
What the hell is a PJ Fleck??
No way in hell guys. You couldn’t project this team into the playoffs in the foreseeable future. Youngest team, no Cet leadership, horrible defense.
Did I mention his coach being PJ Fleck?
Wallace is NOT gonna put his career in a Flecks hands
March 7th, 2012 at 12:16 am
@Joe
Lawrence Phillips was the name you were thinking of and I agree Honest Earnest. I remember watching Adrian Peterson his freshman year and thinking he was a sure fire first rounder back then. Richardson is a solid back but I think in this draft the Bucks can get a solid running back in the later rounds. I would love to see the bucs trade back and get a player like Zach Brown or Riley Reiff, both solid value picks that can be had all while collecting picks
March 7th, 2012 at 1:04 am
mark:
But the guy was/is such a scumbag, Joe calls him “Larry.”
March 7th, 2012 at 1:29 am
I’ve avoided this topic so far, but it’s just too funny. Cracks me up how some people on here are questioning Earnest Graham’s ability to evaluate RB talent in the NFL when he is an NFL RB and the people questioning him are fans and bloggers…. really??? I think he may have a clue what it takes, whether or not he’s a talent scout or not.
Then I have to laugh at those saying TR is the next Adrian Peterson. Well, that was also said about Darren McFadden before the draft. McFadden had 3 1000+ yard seasons at Arkansas, ran a 4.33 at the combine, set multiple school records. Richardson had 1 season over 1000 yards, spend two years behind Ingram and never had the 1800+ yards McFadden had. TR runs approximately a 4.5 40, had minor knee surgery between college and the draft. Richardson’s numbers don’t even match up with McFadden’s, much less Peterson’s. Now, to be fair, Barry Sanders also had only one breakout year in college…. just the greatest season ever in college history… 2,628 yards rushing, 3,248 total yards, 234 points, 39 touchdowns, of which 37 were rushing, 5 consecutive 200 yard games, scored at least 2 touchdowns in 11 consecutive games, and 9 times he scored at least 3 touchdowns. Oh yeah, and he ran a 4.38.
Not saying he will or won’t be great, but the truth is there are fewer success stories over the past decade with top 10 RBs than top 10 at most any other position. Add to that the lifespan of NFL RBs and you see why the NFL has moved away from drafting RBs in the top 10. Trent Richardson will be that guy this year, he will probably be drafted top 10, only time will tell if that was a worthwhile pick or if Arian Foster has a better career as an undrafted player.
If I were to draft an offensive player at #5 for the Bucs, it would be Kalil first, then Blackmon. Kalil will be off the board when we pick. That leaves a choice between Blackmon and Claiborne in my book. If we go offense, we’d better be able to score and score quickly because our defense won’t be able to stop Brees/Ryan/Newton or anyone else without major overhauls in FA. Of course that could happen too. We could go hog-wild in FA. I could also say go for Wallace, but that would have to be decided a week before the draft, and I don’t see that happening because we don’t know who will be available at #5, don’t know if there are any trade partners out there for more picks, etc.
Free agency will tell a lot, but the likelihood of drafting TR is near zero.
March 7th, 2012 at 1:50 am
Oh, and if anyone cares…. Trent Richardson has ruled himself out for the Pro Day. He has moved his timetable back 3 weeks and will have an individual workout then. No combine, no Pro Day…. not looking good for the #6 prospect in the draft!
March 7th, 2012 at 2:05 am
Hey Joe! Guess what? running back is of more concern then the DB position, Blount might not be as good as you think (he was benched on a bad football team, has a fumbling problem, reportedly has a bad work ethic and lastly might not be the sharpest tool in the shed- this is just from what I hear from around the NFL, don’t know the man personally, however if they can’t rely on him, who do they have? and where does this leave Freeman? In the Bunker by himself? You can kiss his _ss goodbye in this league. Yes, this is Gains Adams (RIP) draft all over again. I only hope the Buc’s have more guts and foresight than most of you on here. Those of you realistic ones who delight in their high football IQ’S. you of the same you demanded Adams over Peterson for the concern of defense…you draft the guy who could kick your butt and the NFL for 7-10 years and make cap space or do whatever it takes and not let circumstances influence you, influence the damn circumstances…I will not even get into this drafting based on shelf life folly LOL
March 7th, 2012 at 2:25 am
@BamBam,
I know you probably weren’t referring to me, but I completely respect EG’s opinion, and acknowledge that he has forgotten more football than I will ever know. However, I would also say that just because he says it, doesn’t make it law. You can’t find one person in this draft where you can’t find someone that will say he’s not the real deal. That’s what makes the draft so fun, yet so frustrating. You really just never know what you are getting until a couple years down the road.
I don’t really compare TR to AP in running style, but by the fact that they are both very dynamic, explosive play-makers. I really like Richardson because I think he’s the most complete back I’ve seen. He can do everything, and he can do everything very well. Yes, he did play behind Ingram, but he still averaged 6.3 yards per carry backing up the Heisman Trophy winner. And like I said, most people in Tuscaloosa were saying that Richardson was a better back. Ingram got more PT because he was a junior and Richardson was a sophomore. Trust me on that one, this is one area where I do have first hand knowledge.
That being said, I get what you are saying, and you may very well be right. All I continue to say is that people shouldn’t be so quick to say it is stupid to draft him, because in the NFL (more so than any other league), you just never know. The same way we should all respect the opinion of EG, we should also respect the opinion of other experts. I don’t give a damn if we draft Mickey Mouse, as long as he helps us win games, because I don’t know how many more 4-12 seasons I can endure.
March 7th, 2012 at 2:29 am
Trent wasn’t expected to participate on Alabama’s Pro day just one week after the Combine.,,No shocker here for the #2 player in the draft
March 7th, 2012 at 2:36 am
bucthis:
Again, revisionist history.
The Bucs were just coming out of salary cap hell and already had a first round pick of a running back on the roster, Caddy. There was no way Bruce Almighty was going to tie up that massive amount of cash for the same position. The Bucs didn’t choose Gaines Adams over Peterson because Peterson (nor any other running back) was not even an option in the first round.
If anything, it is the people with the high school football IQs that continue to promote this fallacy that the Bucs passed on Peterson.
The Bucs — from Team Glazer to Bruce Almighty to Chucky — pretty much let Monte Kiffin make the pick that year because the team had drafted offense in the first round so many years in a row.
Only Matt Millen is crazy enough to tie up two first round draft picks for the same position. Three actually.
(People also tend to forget Peterson had a major red flag coming out of Oklahoma, that he was always hurt and he was brittle, such as a broken collarbone his senior year. Good for him he didn’t suffer a major injury until this season.)
March 7th, 2012 at 2:48 am
and Monty jumped ship and Gruden/Allen got executed for mistakes like not drafting Peterson…was it not Gruden who said the Peterson was the best collage RB he’s ever seen?
March 7th, 2012 at 2:50 am
bucthis:
The Bucs were not going to draft Adrian Peterson. Drafting Peterson would have been a massive mistake. What part of the salary cap hell don’t you understand? He wasn’t even an option to draft and likely wasn’t even on the Bucs draft board. The Bucs already had Caddy on the roster, being paid first round cash by the way. The Glazers probably would have pulled the trigger on Bruce Almighty right away had he drafted Peterson.
Gruden tells people his landscaper is the best player he ever saw. He also said he was going to draft Aaron Rodgers. Have you every heard Chucky say anyone sucks? Shoot, Joe remembers Chucky saying how John Parker Wilson was worthy of a first round pick.LOL
March 7th, 2012 at 3:06 am
This is a second chance within a short period of time to redeem themselves and draft potentially the player with most offensive impact in the NFL, Richardson that is…will the Buc’s learn from their past mistake and get it right this time in April’s draft? I guess this is one of the things that will make it interesting but like some have said, they can’t go wrong based on where they are picking, at least a Claiborne or Blackmon have Probowl potential, That Big USC lineman would be my second choice however.
March 7th, 2012 at 3:24 am
Joe, your point is valid regarding their cap hell of the past and not drafting AD or AP whatever but this year is different, no such problem. If Trent turns out to be as good as advertised and makes his QB and team shine, the Buc’s better hope their pick if not TR is at the very least in Pro bowl contention every year become it could be Deja Vue all over again…
March 7th, 2012 at 3:25 am
Regardless of revisionist history or not, it was a mistake to pass on him. I guarantee you if they could turn the clocks back, they would pick Peterson. Can you really argue that??? Its the classic debate on do you take the best player available, or do you take the position of need. It depends on who you talk to as to the answer.
You continue to point to Matt Millen, yet fail to acknowledge that his best pick (by a mile) was that third WR he took. That guy led them to the playoffs, and has become the best WR in the game. He didn’t get fired for drafting 3 WR’s, he got fired for bringing in crappy talent on a consistent basis.
I don’t see what salary cap hell had to do with anything anyway. RB’s don’t get more money that DE’s (if anything, probably the opposite). Here’s an idea: don’t let your DC choose who you are going to draft. That’s a great way to throw away a premier pick. That’s a stupid mentality, and a big reason why the pick wasn’t a good one. Who the hell do you think he’s going to pick but a defensive player? No matter what anyone says, you all know it’s true that we should have picked Peterson. It’s water under the bridge now, but why even attempt to deny it? Makes no sense to me.
March 7th, 2012 at 3:31 am
Hawaiian:
Uh, yeah.
So the Bucs, strangled by the salary cap, would have been paying two guys top-flight first round salaries, two of the highest salaries on the team, to play the same position and share the ball… and probably both PO’ed because they weren’t “The Man.”
Bruce Allen would have been canned within 24 hours had he pulled that stunt.
(And if you suggest the Bucs could have traded/cut Caddy, his salary would have still counted against the cap.)
March 7th, 2012 at 3:34 am
bucthis:
Perhaps, but you have to remember running backs are greatly devalued from just five or six years ago.
The NFL is turning into a glorified seven-on-seven passing league. Joe has explained in great detail in this thread a few times why he wouldn’t draft any running back in the first round unless the guy was the second coming of Barry Sanders.
March 7th, 2012 at 3:46 am
I would say they should if they believe in running the ball. It is an incredible exaggeration to say he would have been fired within 24 hours. You and I both know that. Now if it didn’t work out, then yes. But if AP was rookie of the year (which he was), you think they would have fired him? Back to back rookie of the years! Give me a break with that nonsense, not buying it. He would more likely be Executive of the year. It would have been a genius move. It has been proven time and time again that the NFL is a two-back league. There are plenty of carries to go around for two backs, and too many for one.
March 7th, 2012 at 3:50 am
Hawaiian Buc…I couldn’t agree with you anymore. We have seen the past and we chose to learn from it. We seem to be in the minority here. I see where Charley Casserly Mocked us with Richardson at #5 as have many. It will probably be Claiborne but Richardson is the higher rated player therefore should be him…best player available in one of their most needy positions…hum? seems logical to me.
March 7th, 2012 at 4:33 am
@bucthis,
Assuming we don’t draft Richardson (which I doubt we will), let’s just hope we are both very wrong. I’m not interested in being right, I just want us to get the best player, which will make us better. I tend to believe Richardson can have AP-like impact in this league, so I’m going to be sick to my stomach if I’m right and we pass on him. I just find it amusing that some people dismiss him as if you can find a great RB in a trash heap, just because there’s been a few diamonds in the rough recently. Nobody mentions all the ones found in the trash heap that are just that – trash. I, for one, don’t trust our scouting department that much. I’d rather take the sure thing (at least what is perceived to be the closest to a sure thing).
Without some first-round type talent around him (meaning All-Pro type players), Freeman is going to struggle again in 2012. If that happens, that’s 3 bad years out of 4 for Freeman. Then what do we do? Get rid of him? Probably. But I would question if he were the source of the problems, or just a casualty of having not enough weapons around him. If Freeman is gone, then we are really in trouble, as you can’t win jack in this league without a QB. But nah, let’s stack our defense so we can shut down Lance Moore and hold New Orleans to 35 points. That makes perfect sense to me. Then we can spend our 6th and 7th round picks on a running back and a raw WR that had great combine stats. I’m sure that’s all Freeman needs to be successful.
March 7th, 2012 at 5:09 am
In getting a Marshall Faulk like production back like Trent Richardson with Freeman would do more for this team than any one player in this draft…like I said, it will be a mistake to count on Blount. Their GM said the mistake they made was not getting enough for the guy. Is drafting defense again helping Freeman? Listen, get a couple of good cover db’s in FA and/or maybe one in the second or third round of the draft and work hard with the talent they already invested in to rush the QB and increase the sack totals…you can still have Trent Richardson, a Josh Freeman with talent around him and an aggressive tenacious defense to win ball games…you DON’T NEED TO DRAFT a corner to make a defense better, it can be done in other ways. What they need to do is make #5 better…
March 7th, 2012 at 5:15 am
In getting a Marshall Faulk like production back like Trent Richardson with Freeman would do more for this team than any one player in this draft…like I said, it will be a mistake to count on Blount. Their GM said the mistake they made was not getting enough for the guy. Is drafting defense again helping Freeman? Listen, get a couple of good cover db’s in FA and/or maybe one in the second or third round of the draft and work hard with the talent they already invested in to rush the QB …they need to make #5 better that is the most important thing they need to do…
March 7th, 2012 at 6:39 am
2008 NFL Draft: 23 running backs taken. 7 of those were taken in the first 2 rounds, leaving 16 taken rounds 3-7. Of those 7, every one is still in the league, and they all still start (with the semi-exception of Felix Jones). Of the other 16, only Jamaal Charles (3rd round) is still relevant at all in the NFL. That is 15 out of 16 being busts!!! We picked Corey Boyd. How is he doing these days?
After that draft, you start to see a huge reduction in RB’s taken early (first 2 rounds). However, the overwhelming majority of the better backs are still the 1st and 2nd rounders (Ryan Matthews, Lashon McCoy, Ben Tate), with only a couple late rounders even being decent (LaRod Stephens-Howling, Shonn Greene).
Even going back to 2007, the 2 first round RB’s were Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson. Those guys aren’t bad. Excluding undrafted players, there have been 13 RB’s selected to the Pro Bowl that were drafted since 2006. 10 of those were selected in the first 2 rounds. That means that in the last 6 drafts, there has only been 3 players in 30 rounds (rounds 3-7) that have been Pro Bowl players. We have selected 3 RB’s in late rounds during that time. All are gone. I’m not saying you judge a player by Pro Bowls, but the stats get even worse if you just look at the names. The majority of the late rounders aren’t even in the league anymore. The bust percentage of RB’s in the first two rounds is actually pretty low.
So while everyone is claiming you can get great backs late I ask you this: looking at those numbers, do you like your odds? 1 out of 17 in 2008? Should we not draft any RB’s and wait for another Blount or Arian Foster (ones with major character concerns)? Or maybe we should try to get another Kregg Lumpkin or Kareem Huggins, both undrafted studs? For every Arian Foster, I will give you Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, and Ryan Matthews). I’ll take my first rounders over your late rounders and undrafted players anyday.
March 7th, 2012 at 8:43 am
I would not be mad if we draft TR @ 5….
With that said, trade down a little and take Luke Kuechly!!!! Hell, I would not be mad if we take Kuechly @ 5
March 7th, 2012 at 8:47 am
MATTHEW
By saying Colston is more Provence, i meant he has maintained 1,000+ yards for a longer period because he has been Kb the influx longer. The adds some ellement of risk to acquiring him. I DO THINK IT IS WORTH THE RISK…but…
If you sit down with pen and paper (old school iPad) and make a list of Bucs needs in offer of priority, the WR or RB is not at the top of that list.
No doubt…I would take Wallace over Blackmon in a heartbeat…if it was Blackmon we were after
March 7th, 2012 at 8:49 am
Get Michael Bush.
Draft or trade for a RB next year.
March 7th, 2012 at 9:01 am
Lamar Miller might be the best rb in the draft this year…the guy can do everything. Block, catch,run…and he has 4.3 speed and is durable.Richardson benches 450 lbs and will be good, he should be our 5th or 6 th choice
March 7th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Jt, if Claiborne is gone, Kuechly is my #2 choice. He has football instinct, smarts, documented college production. The knock on him precombine was his athleticism, but look at his combine results. Benched 27@225. 3rd fastest 40 time of all the linebackers.
He is going to be the cornerstone of somebody’s defense, and I wouldn’t complain if it was ours.
March 7th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Nomdi, 31st pick in,first round, not exactly top 5. Ronde Barber and John Lynch, what rounds were they,again? Oh yeah and the Vikings picked Randy Moss when they already had a slew of great receivers.That was a dumb pick. I like Blount but you are kidding yourself if you think he will ever be a complete back. I agree with Hawaiian its an air of youre an idiot for thinking they should draft Richardson air in here. I mean if I wanted I can pick out,tje faults of,Clairborne as well as you can for Richardson. Pedestrian 40 time, 4.5, pedestrian vertical, 34 inches. And yeah if,youre playing man coverage the 40 and vertical are a concern.
March 7th, 2012 at 9:41 am
We don’t need an undersized MLB. Why all the Mark Simoneau I mean Kuechly love?
March 7th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Because Kuechly has brains, football knowledge, athleticism, and college production.
March 7th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Crazy logic around here.
Folks that keep claiming Richardson would be a terrible pick are flat out amusing. Here’s the logic the Morris Claiborne worshippers cling to:
1) We’re in a pass happy division, we need DBs to survive.
2) Richardson hasn’t done anything in the NFL, and we already have Blount.
3) Nobody’s taking RBs early that succeeds in the playoffs.
4) Graham said Richardson isn’t Peterson.
Let’s look at those.
1 – Yeah, we’re in a pass happy division. But here’s news: there are other defensive means to combat a passing attack then having shutdown corners. It’s called an aggressive blitzing defense. More news – Schiano wants to run that kind of system. It’s understandable to miss this point if you weren’t supposedly fans of a franchise that NEVER utilized shutdown guys as it revolutionized the NFL with a system that’s been copied all over the league.
2 – No rookie has done anything in the league. That argument is as stupid as they get. The Blount situation OTOH, is obvious. He was undrafted and released by the Titans because he’s exceedingly one-dimensional. Sure, blame the crap coaching we had. But if the coaching was so phenomenally awful that nobody could succeed, why is it that Josh Freeman was able to have some highlight moments? Blount is a liability at RB that cues opposing defenses as to what we’re doing. Fine if we’re ahead late in games, but deadly to us in the first half. “Blount is proven to get 4 yards per carry.” Sure. And the Bucs are proven to be a 10-6 team. Both statements equally factual, and equally flawed.
3 – Nobody that can draft early tends to BE in the playoffs. Another absymally dumb point.
4- I’ll echo it. Richardson isn’t Peterson. Richardson also isn’t Blount. Richardson also isn’t Joe Bucsfan. He’s Trent Richardson, and he’s an extremely highly rated running back that is as likely to have a terrific career much like Peterson. It’s possible he will not. It’s possible he’ll fade quickly. It’s also possible that Morris Claiborne sucks. Any draft pick is a roll of the dice, but assuming that any highly graded player is a “waste” of a pick is stupid, unless they are a poor fit for what the coach wants to put in place. Uh, kind of like Claiborne is.
March 7th, 2012 at 10:07 am
@Justafan
I am not a Claiborne worshipper. I would be ok with the pick, but I am more of a sign Wallace for the 5th pick guy. Another RB doesn’t help the offense as much as an elite burner at WR.
March 7th, 2012 at 10:46 am
@ J 2.0
I’m content with Wallace if we go that way. I’d rather they go ahead and pull out the stops for Jackson, keep the 5th rounder and be lucky enough to have someone trade us for the pick to get MORE picks, but assuming we’re stuck with the 5th overall, I just don’t see why folks are so against the idea of TR.
If Blount was an all-purpose weapon, I think even as scatterbrained as the prior regime was he’d have been utilized that way more often. They couldn’t get him to pick up his assignments as a blocker, and he failed regularly at catching live balls during game time. And they desperately needed him to be successful last season.
I’m not saying we NEED a Trent Richardson either, but I am saying a legitimate all purpose back is necessary. Blount is not our main runningback, and he never will be. He’d be awesome for late games to kill the clock, as the only play you need is off-tackle/up-the-gut stuff to break enough yards to move the chains on tired opposing defenses.
Folks are missing the main point – we’re no longer going to see the offense Gruden ran, or the semi-Gruden offense Olson ran. We’re going to see Schiano/Sullivan’s offense, which has been described as a run-first physical offense that takes shots downfield.
We don’t have the pieces to be able to be a run-first offense, and having the right RB for that offense is critical.
March 7th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
We do have a RB that can pund the rock, eat clock, and set up shots down field. We have WR’s that can go over the middle or underneath and set up shots down the field. We don’t have anyone to throw shots down the field to, or guys who can catch the ball and run with it. Mike Wallace.
March 7th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
You will notice that all of those who are so against us drafting Richardson point to the same facts, yet ignore the facts that a CB drafted that early is no sure thing either. No one has named a CB taken in the top 5 yet, even when they claim the top 5 is for CB’s but not RB’s. They state running backs can very easily be gotten late, but ignore that some of the best CB’s in the game were also found late. They can’t even dispute the fact that a great CB still only shuts down one guy, and in the case of a team like NO, that means very little (they’ve got weapons everywhere). They are completely quiet when presented facts about how many bust running backs there have been in late rounds, even though they claim the exact opposite (always pointing towards a couple rare exceptions).
Here’s my prediction as to what will happen: This post will end. Within a few days, Joe will have another article with an expert saying how bad of a pick Richardson is, and the same people will have the same opinions, ignoring the facts they heard on this article. Then we will repeat the same facts, they will ignore it (or just state the standard, “drafting RB’s early is stupid”), and the cycle will repeat itself until the draft. And if we draft him, he will be given a nickname (similar to the “bust in waiting” Josh Freeman) until he proves himself.
March 7th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
No argument from me J2.0. I just want us to score points, and a deep threat probably is our biggest need.