Will UNC “Have Spies On The Practice Field?”
February 13th, 2012
At one point in our nation’s history, President Bill Clinton forced many to reconsider the meaning of the word “is” and the defintion of “sexual relations.”
Hey, Joe’s open to studying the language. In fact, it’s a passion of Joe’s.
On that front, it seems the Bucs and their new special defensive assistant advisor general, Butch Davis, will test the limits and meanings of the word “coach.”
Joe’s previously delivered the reports that have Davis not serving as a Bucs “coach” because that would prohibit him from collecting at least the remaining $1.7 million or so from the University of North Carolina and potentially forfeiting previous money he got from the school after leaving as its head coach. Davis, per the terms of his release from UNC, is not allowed to coach in the NFL and keep his remaining college income due. Therefore, the Bucs only have Davis in a defensive-consultant role.
Count Bucs beat writer Rick Stroud among those confused why the Bucs wouldn’t just buy out the rest of the money UNC owes Davis and have Davis available to the Bucs in all capacities, so Stroud said on The Dan Sileo Show today on WDAE-AM 620.
“Maybe this is just the role [Davis] wants. There’s no cameras over there, I think. I don’t know if North Carolina is going to have spies on the practice field [at One Buc Palace,]” Stroud said. “But we all know the agreement. And, you know, he’s going to be more in an advisory role.”
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. UNC is a public college and Joe suspects somebody over there will be in charge of scrutinizing Davis’ role with the Bucs, especially in these times that have states grasping for every last nickel they can find.
Is someone coaching if he has no role on gameday or doesn’t talk to players on the practice field? Is someone coaching if he’s merely breaking down film indoors before a group of players and coaches? Are you coaching if you’re wearing a headset in the booth and barking opinions to the head coach? Are you a coach if you only coach coaches on how to coach?
As Joe’s written previously, if Davis is not officially a coordinator, then by NFL rules he never has to engage the media on any subject. So don’t expect Davis to explain.
Perhaps, as Stroud suggested is possible, Davis really has no interest in coaching and simply wants to only engage coaches and study film.
February 13th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Heres what I dont get.
Wont it cost the bucs about the same amount to get another DC as it would to pay Davis the 500K for three years?
Couldnt be more than maybe 150-200K more at the most, if they get a nobody for DC.
So, why not pay it and put this nonsense to rest. Sign Butch as DC and let him coach, call the defense, etc.
The whole thing is rediculous.
February 13th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
OK, Joe, let’s try it this way. My sentiments exactly!
February 13th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
I’ve been harping on this in the comments of several posts, and I don’t see the confusion with the Bucs and Butch Davis, or his role as advisor, so let me try to explain again:
Butch Davis was given a severance package when he was removed as coach of North Carolina. Butch Davis was removed as coach primarily due to an NCAA investigation, with UNC chancellor Holden Thorp stating an intention to “restore confidence in the university”.
Now, we don’t need to get into the corrupt nature of the NCAA. I’m not absolving Butch Davis, but let’s get serious, any illicit behavior that originated from UNC was likely done with both the knowledge of Butch Davis and Holden Thorp, amongst others.
So, okay, Butch is shown the door and given a multi-million dollar severance package that prohibits him from coaching in the NFL. Yes, he can come aboard as a head coach or defensive coordinator in the pro game and he loses the severance, but maybe, just maybe, Butch Davis wants to stick it to UNC for what he feels is the university shifting the bulk of the wrongdoing onto him.
I contend that the Bucs initially offered him the DC job and offered to match his buy-out, but Butch and the Bucs sat down and worked out an arrangement that will allow him to ‘advise’ the team while collecting two paychecks. And why not do it this way, if you’re Butch Davis? I’m not sure how or if the NFL can police the way his advises a team, and isn’t a coach in a way an advisor to his players? Butch Davis will probably stick around for a couple years with the Bucs (so long as we don’t have anymore 10 game losing streaks), collect his severance, cash his advisor checks, and if things work out and the Bucs can rebound, perhaps some more opportunities open up for him. This has nothing to do with the Glazers not wanting to pay top dollar for a coach.
February 13th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Training Camp it will be interesting …
Is he allowed on the field ??
What if a player speaks to him ??
At the end of the day he will not be allowed on the Football Field.
The lawyers at UNC will have enough to say he is coaching just by Butch talking to a player.
This will not last. At some point he will have to resign or go Full coach mode before all is said and done.
February 13th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
I don’t think the guaranteed money is the issue, it’s the difference between his salary from the Bucs and the guaranteed money. Right now, he’ll collect $2.7M for sitting around and doing nothing. Let’s say the Bucs offered him $1M/year. In that case, he’s only making $300K more than his severance. You’re essentially asking the man to work his tail off for $100K/year. In order to make this work from Davis’ perspective, you need to be talking about $2M/year. Now, is $2M/year for a DC realistic? IRRC, that’s exactly what Morris got paid.
February 13th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
“Perhaps, as Stroud suggested is possible, Davis really has no interest in coaching and simply wants to only engage coaches and study film.”
Exactly. This is what I mentioned the other day on the Donatel post. Why go after a seasoned defensive coordinator when you’ve already got one, quote, in place?
My euphoria from the weekend is fading…
February 13th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
If he only wants to be an advisor, so be it. But we had better damn well find a real DC who can actually coach or else we’re going to be SOL pretty darn quickly.
February 13th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Well, as Eric says “The whole thing is rediculous.”… I am not going to say that because the fact is, we do not know the details. It is all speculation. Sure I would like him as DC, but the fact that he is on baord for the defense is a great step
February 13th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
I don’t know the details either.
But I admit to being concerned in that it’s getting late to hire a DC and IF, IF, that’s really the role that Davis will play and it’s about money as far as being a hands on coach?
Of course I have a problem with that. So right now, until we know more, I’m waiting to hear some good news. Something just doesn’t feel rith although it may indeed be absolutely nothing to worry about.
February 13th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
I would just pay the man and tell UNC to get over it!
February 13th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Anything the guy does can arguably be called coaching.
All the University has to do is wait till the season ends and take a few depositions of bucs players. If they talked to Butch Davis about anything besides the weather, its coaching,
There are probably attorneys fees provisions in a fancy contract like that, so they got nothing to lose challenging it by refusing payment.
How does the charade play out if they refuse to pay next year and it goes to court? Are the bucs gonna step up to the plate and pay if Butch loses?
Then they have to pay a huge payout for an “adviser”. Or Butch doesnt get the money and makes significantly less than if he didn’t coach at all.
Perhaps this is postering, but if it is why try and intervierw for DC?
Or is this cluster the reason he hasnt submitted a signed contract to the bucs yet?
February 13th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Depositions of Bucs players, Eric? Really? C’mon now. I’m sure UNC may consider that route in an attempt to get off the hook on the remainder of cash due to Butch Davis, but they aren’t going against some small time attorney. UNC would have to have their legal team pursure action against the Bucs, and in a certain aspect, the NFL. To think the Glazers would suddenly be faced with a disruption in training camp/regular season to send players to give a deposition is ridiculous.
If this course of action is taken by UNC, you won’t hear much about it until the end of the following season, in which case the Bucs could choose to pay out the difference in the severance and move on, or let Butch walk. UNC is not going to disrupt an NFL offseason/season, let’s get real here.
February 13th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
The action is against Butch, not the Glazers. They dont have a contract with UNC. Neither does the NFL. Butch does.
They can wait till this season is over, first payment is due January 2013.
If they refuse payment ball is in Butch’s court. Depositions are surely not out of the question but wouldnt have to be be during the season.
Sounds messy, even for an allegedly “small time” attorney.
Can easily be avoided by the Glazers. Heck they are already saving three million per season when Kelly turned them down.
The thing smells of Glazerisms IMO.
February 13th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
It doesn’t matter to us at all unless he decides to NOT join the Bucs.
I could care less. If he’s here he’ll have a hand in what we do and with that comes NFL experience.
Annouce a DC already.
February 13th, 2012 at 6:13 pm
Eric, You ask some good questions and you make some good points, but don’t become a legal expert here unless you want to be held accountable for the facts. I posted a couple of days ago that UNC is already paying Davis and you subsequently responded that the first payment is not due until January 2013. Today you persist with that same notion. Some facts may help. The agreement that you refer to is a separate severance agreement for 2.7mil of which 933k has already been paid. The next lump-sum installment of 570k (maybe 590k, almost 600k, don’t remember exactly) is due January, 2013. Hope this helps!
February 13th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
As per Pat Yasinskas the Davis deal is done and official as an assistant. Also Yasinskas says due to the new CBA there is roll over cap room and the Bucs have the 2nd highest amount of cap space over $60 million. Which means next offseason we will have $120 million under the cap!!!
February 13th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
this whole thing sounds real bootleg janky bush league if you will. what the hell is bush league anyhow ? a 70’s smut film I see it now a glasers boys production we got gashed again starring Sgt longstroke Winslow Big Mike Williams The Blount Object and the Bada Bing girls oh yeah and can’t forget in his first thiple X rated debut Pee Wee Herman as the long snapper
February 13th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
@macabee
i think butch got his 900000 already and nothing the bucs do changes that.
its the remaining 500k per year thats the issue. that starts 2013.
not sure where id read that but its sticking in my mind.
February 13th, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Eric, I apologize if I misread your post. I thought you were saying that the payments toward his severance starts in january. You are correct in stating the next installment of the 3 remaining payments is due in Jan, 2013. Good looking out!