Raheem Morris’ Ship Was “Out Of Control”
February 4th, 2012
There were all sorts of reasons for Team Glazer to jettison Raheem Morris from the Bucs. The biggest reason was that as the season grew long, the Bucs looked more like a Division-II team than an NFL team.
Just thinking of the Bucs coughing up 42 points in 22 minutes makes Joe want to run for a bottle of Pepto Bismol. It may have been the worst display of defense Joe has ever seen in the NFL and any defensive starter short of Adrian Clayborn and Da’Quan Bowers — who, despite being rookies, played like NFL’ers — should be lighting candles to give thanks for still being employed.
It was interesting when Joe learned, via “The Godfather,” Gil Brandt, that Gerald McCoy, upon learning of Greg Schiano’s hiring, stated, “I hope he is organized.”
ESPN’s Pat Yasinskas suggests GMC is just scraping the tip of the iceberg, as Yasinskas wrote in his weekly NFC South blog chat.
andy (hickory, nc)
pat, no offense, but how is schiano the new bucs coach the opposite of raheem? he has no nfl head coaching or coordinator experience, hes a defensive minded coach, hes young, he sounds just like raheem.
Pat Yasinskas
Andy, that doesn’t offend me in any way! But Schiano is a good bit older and much more mature than Raheem. He also has a proven record as a builder and a winner. Raheem truly was a nice guy. But I don’t think fans realized just how out of control things were on many levels. Schiano is known for running a tight ship. So they’re very different guys.
Joe has to wonder just how much more drama Schiano will tolerate from overrated Aqib Talib? Joe also wonders if Schiano will let Kellen Winslow coast through practices?
Now Joe understands Winslow’s knees can no longer handle the grueling day-to-day punishment of an NFL season. But not practicing each day may explain why Winslow, in the last game of the season, was running a wrong route that blew up a pass intended for Kregg Lumpkin.
February 4th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
He’s “definitely an upgrade” over Raheem, but it better not be “just” an upgrade.
Really, the thing I’m worried about is who our assistants are going to be. Right now, I’m not hopeful about that.
February 4th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Andy is an idiot! That’s like saying all black people like fried chicken or all Asian people know karate. People can NOT be this stupid….
February 4th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Add to that Mr. Winslow’s remarks about wanting a different coach.
Excellent way to impress the new boss.
Rock invested that 2nd rounder in him, so i suspect K-2 is sticking around, gimpy knee and all.
I for one hope rock loses his headphone privileges and will not be conslutled as to when a particular player can be used-like when Rah put Free in for first time.
February 4th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Ive read something that he’s trying to bring Butch Davis on the staff as DC and assistant head coach that would be a great first hire for Schiano
February 4th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
I think the point the Andy guy is trying to make is that Schiano and Rah have essentially the same NFL resume: both were DB coaches i.e. neither have/had experience being THE guy on an NFL level. It’s a valid criticism vs. grabbing a guy like Zimmer, Marty or even Chud who had experience and some modicum of success coaching men in the NFL (as opposed to college kids) and running at least one side of the ball.
Once again, I think it’s a valid question mark, especially with all the rumors of Coach bringing his college coaches in from Rutgers.
February 4th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Lol Eric go back and read what K2 said to Schein before you perpetuate a myth.
Paraphrasing: I really wanted Coach Chud but I’m happy and excited that Coach Schiano is coming in and I can’t wait to work with him.
February 4th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
@Joe
The only person overrating Talib was Rah. When he was healthy he got picked on just like everybody else in a ragged secondary. No fear. Schiano will tolerate him until they can replace him…with Fist-Wielding Cortland Finnegan 🙂
February 4th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
I know a lot about Morris as a HC in the NFL and for that he has been replaced as HC of the Bucs. I don’t know one thing about Schiano as a HC in the NFL and neither does anybody else. All other comparisons are subjective. I look forward to making that comparison after Shiano has had a year or two on the job. Continuing to resurrect Morris for some sort of post mortem as a way to project whether our new coach will be successful will only replay comments we’ve heard a million times already, but not further the dialogue on what this team needs to win today – not how it lost yesterday!
February 4th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Joe,
i find it amusing how Talib is now “overrated”, but during his scrape with the law last year u pleaded for him not to be released. if i recall correctly, u said something along the lines of him being on the cusp of greatness, and that he was just below the elite level of CBs in the league.
what a difference a year makes huh? lol
February 4th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Oh! Well if Pat says so, we got nothing to worry about!
February 4th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Big Marlon- not to me! He was overayed last spring, still is. He’s a lousy CB that gambles and gives up TDs Waaaay more often than interceptions
And I said so both times. Aqib sucks on and off the field.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
What Sensible, Andy, and many others are missing is the 11 YEARS AS A HC that Schiano has over Raheem. It’s definitely telling by the subtle comments from McCoy (organization) and Joseph (accountability) that some players had issues with the way Rah ran things. Again, don’t really care what we hear about the Morris tenure from here on out, just very glad it’s over. Prefer to look ahead to the new Schiano era and get excited for a new brand of football.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
[Sorry Wally, Joe can’t confirm those accusations so Joe can’t let that fly. If you want to e-mail the info to Joe and we can discuss, feel free to do so. Also, you contradicted yourself in the meeting story saying “x” called the meeting but in the next phrase you wrote you didn’t know who called the meeting. Sorta killed your credibility right there. — Joe. ] After that, ,most of the partying stopped but it was too late, the season was lost.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
We need another CB (Claiborne or Finnegan would be nice)…….but if Talib is innocent I’d keep him around as a backup or let him compete for the 2nd starting cornerback spot with Barber. And keep Barber around for leadership.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Finally someone else said this. I’ve been telling my wife this since the fall of last season. It started with their plan for Kellen to avoid injuries. Same thing for Price (who I think actually needed the treatment), but I’m sure it was an inviting perk for many players once things got ugly. These are all normal people. “Why not take the path of least resistance until Coach gets fired, and then I can really play.”
February 4th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Tim has been right about Talib all along, but WAY off on rahrah.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Didn’t really need anyone to tell me things were out of control.between vomiting, I actually watched the last ten games.
If any of you watched them, I’m sure it was obvious to you also
Still no confirmation of the Frank Cignetti signing?
We have to get that done quickly, and start preparing for the housing Boom!
Payton Manning, Ray Rice, Vincent and Desean Jackson will all be running down here once they find out We got Frank!!!!
February 4th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
I said Raheem deserved a chance. I was right about him when he won 10 games last season. Eventually his inexperience caught up to him. I predicted a losing season last year! Got my big paw on the Pulse ,brother!
And I’m predicting Yer boy Shiano is gonna start drowning before they even turn on the Hot water. Tooooo much, tooo quick! Good luck to him. He has no clue what a bunch of quitters he’s walking in on. If ge keeps their attention thru preseason, I’ll be impressed.
February 4th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Bucs hire former Rutgers Wr coach P.j Fleck as Wr coach. At least its something!!
February 4th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
Fleck is on as WR’s Coach as predicted. A wealth of experience. Great hire. Loved the way he accepted an OC position and then bailed after 1 day.. Building character one hire at a time. But he LOVES football. Go Bucs !
February 4th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
Lol ladies and gentlement your Tampa Bay Scarlet Knights!
Fingers still crossed for Butch & Todd Haley as coordinators
February 4th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
All this wait and apparently he’s bringing most of his assistants. Don’t get the delay for that. I was hoping he was out interviewing some dark horse candidates. One of the things Vermeil thought would be a mistake would be to hire a bunch of college coaches as assistants. It looks like Schiano not taking the advice. I hope they’re good coaches. I believe Butch Davis is a must. I still hope we get a top notch OC.
February 4th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
How in the hell can it be took quick for Schiano but not Rahrah? Rahrah was assistant d backs coach just a couple of years earlier?
February 4th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Rah didnt win 10 games, smoke and mirrors did!
February 4th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Sooner or later we’ll all learn that rumors usually do not happen in Tampa. I mean, how many rumors were there about who our new HC would be? 5? 6?
None of them happened. It wasn’t until a sure thing was nearly in place that we knew the truth.
So I’m not believing anything until I see it.
February 4th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
PS – I’m not sold on Butch Davis coming in as DC either.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
theres a clip on youtube where he says the cornerback was calling him Harry Potter. lol
February 4th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
If Schiano brings most of his Rutgers staff with him, that may turn out ok over time. I don’t know what everybody’s expectations are for 2012, but I expect a lot of team building and a lotta losses. So, I’m not too concerned about a first year staff that is likely to change next year. Someone on JBF with a sense of humor said, “As long as we don’t play West Virginia, we should be just fine”. I tend to agree!
February 4th, 2012 at 7:08 pm
Let me ask you something, Big Marlon…do you suppose coaching had anything to do with the players quiting or doing poorly last year?
If so, isn’t it possible that without proper coaching and with his off-the-field issues (of his own making), along with his suspension and no off season workouts…that Talib’s play suffered? Talib has potential, but he needs to be designated a backup so that he knows there are consequences.
But he can still be salvaged.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
@Macabee
Well said!
February 4th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Thomas- we werent talking about Raheem. You said I was wrong about him.
I predicted a winning season- we won
I predicted a losing season- we lost
Looks spot on ta me! 🙂
February 4th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Normally I’d agree with you. Nobody knows what the Glazers will do…but this is Schiano we’re talking about. It’s pretty easy to read the tea leaves here with a HC already in place. Schiano already said he’d bring in the best teachers whether college or pro which is code for I’m going to bring in guys I have experience with. If he wants to institute the Buccaneer Way who better to do it with than guys that already know the “Schiano” Way?
February 4th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
P J Fleck?? A wealth of expeience. He played for a tiny school. Wasn’t drafted. Spent one year on IR with the forty Niners, cut the next. Worked as unpaid assistant at same tiny College. One year at Rutgers. Accepted OC job at same tiny school. Quit the next day.
And we are turning Williams, Benn, Briscoe, Etc to him????
And . . All you guys think this is a Smart, not cheap move??
How did I land in this alternate universe? doubting Thomas is thrilled, and I am the one questioning the wisdom of all these Pop Warner coaches coming to the Bucs!!! Even Pat Y approved- and he has NEVER been right about anything- EVER!!
February 4th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Big Marlon B:
Two years ago it sure seemed Talib was Pro Bowl worthy. He’s gotten worse the past two years and add on all the drama, he’s more a distraction and a hindrance than an asset.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Capt Tim:
Might want to check Belicheat’s resume. Or Chucky’s. Or Mike McCarthy. Or for that matter Mike Tomlin.
Just because someone didn’t play or coach in the almighty SEC doesn’t mean they don’t know football.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Tim you were in love with rah for 3 years. Lmao
10 games = third place in the division and no playoffs. I have never heard of a fan base so proud about missing the playoffs.
Tim, dont try to overgeneralize – I believe at one point you told me to get used to rah bc he would be here for a decade. Lmao. Finger on the pulse. Lmfao
You thought the 2011 schedule was more difficult, you never predicted (like i did) that rah was lost and that he had no business being a nfl coach and 2011 would expose that. Case in point: 42-0 in 1.5 quarters to a ream that scored 2 points the next week – that was your man, dont run from him now.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Ill happily take schiano and you take rahrah.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Nah, he always sucked. And the “distractions started at his very first NFL event” the Rookie Syposium” at Canton, where he attacked Cory Byrd.
Come on, right is right. We all saw him stink up the field the last couple years!
I should get awarded an official” Capt. Tim was Right award” award for that call! Especially after many people( Ahem) thought our secondary was a” Team Strength” last. Lol!
After all, Joe, I awarded you with the Official” you da man” award when you proved Right about Zuttah at LG!
February 4th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Thomas
Predicted wins- 10/6
Predicted losses- 4/12
Didn’t have much love to predict a losing season.
You can pour all the Rah Venom ya want, but Yer boy won’t see a 10 win season here!
Heck, all he’s managed so far is .500 at tinyville university.
The youngest team in the league, with the most inexperienced coaching staff in the league.
It screams cheap, not winner.
Just like you. I finally start to think your right about the team being skinflints, and you change sides!
February 4th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
One more thing and I’m done with this thread. I saw the ESPN/Chicago bulletin on Fleck and I’m not doubting the hire. But whoever they hire or however long it takes, am I expecting too much to have thought that there would be a logical progression to these hires and subsequent announcements. I didn’t expect to hear the WR coach named first. I thought they would name a DC, then an OC – that triumvirate would hold a presser, then go off and each day thereafter, they would name position coaches to fill in the staff. Am I watching too much TV or is this a brand new day and I should expect the unexpected?
February 4th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Schiano will not be 17-31 after 3 years, with 2 last place div finishes and one next to last.
I remember you calling for Gru’s head after a 9-7 2nd place finish that missed the playoffs, rahrah goes the ugliest, luckiest 10-6 (he called it smoke and mirrors) and you want to enshrine him. Why? Bc you hitched your wagon to him.
He was the worst coach EVER. You should have recognized it, as I did. Everyond is coming out blasting him for the team being out of control. Yet, you are still defending him – its like joe with pop star.
February 4th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
@ Macabee
Just my opinion but, Fleck probably REALLY wanted the job so dispensed with protracted negotiations. Every other Rutgers coach (and whoever they’re talking to for the coordinator positions) may be pushing for more money/years so its taking longer.
February 4th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
It is b.s. to say that you predicted 10-6 and 4-12.
February 4th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Joe, I don’t doubt for a minute that they know football. I am sure they do. Thats not my issue.
We have the youngest team in the league. A team that flat quit last year, and is devoid of discipline.
The first thing a coach has to do to win, is get the players to believe in his system, and have faith in it.
An experienced NFL coach has proven he knowswhat it takes. He immediately gets their attention, and they won’t question his abilities to win at this level- he’s proven it already.
Greg Schiano doesn’t bring that to the table. He is going to have to learn how to be an NFL head coach. Everything is different- the days you practice, game time, how many practices in pads, how many days you can work them,etc, Etc
Hes gonna make mistakes. If this team had adequate Vetern leadership, the Vets would help keep the kids” toeing the line”.
Last year proved we have no such leadership
If Greg stumbles, they will see it as weakness- just like they dud Raheem. They will begin to doubt. And that’s a big problem
It’s not that he and his college staff can’t coach in the NFL, it’s that pairing the youngest team, with the least experienced Coaching staff, is the worst possible fit! That’s where the problem lies- not with the man or his abilities.
It’s Raheem 2. Inexperienced staff and team, in over it’s head, are gonna panic when it falls apart. We just did this, and learned nothing.
That’s the problem to me, and it seems pretty obvious.asking this Coach to transition from Rutgers to the NFL is a gigantic leap.asking him to also teach a basically Rookie team to become professionals at the same time?
Like I said- good luck to him
February 4th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Thomas- never said records. Said winning season, losing season
You predicted 2 wins both seasons
And I never posted during Grudens regime. I discovered JoeBuc after the 3-13 season with Raheem. I wasn’t here to ask for Grudens head
Your memory is worse than my lungs!
February 4th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
i heard rah used to say to the players at road games at halftime:
“win this game boys, and we all get hoes tonight!”
not a good example of what to play hard for!
adam from ny
February 4th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
CAPT.TIM the problem with your theory is you dont bring in Schianos discipline philosophy: ” Dont like it? Then get the hell out.” Simple as that, these guys have no choice but to play hard for Schiano because hes the new sherriff in town and hes takin names. Everyone has there own oppinion and yours is foolish. GO BUCS AND GO SCHIANO!!
February 4th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Rah didn’t have pop Warner head coaching experience, he was d coordinator for one forgetful year – coincidentally the year they played Rutgers and Schiano lot up rahrah’s d 38-10.
Schiano was rutger’s head coach for more than a decade, nobody ever said his team’s were not disciplined, or quit or were poorly coached.
Every person speaking out is blasting rah for having no discipline and an out of control team. This would never happen to Schiano, he is a disciplined and respected man, not a hyperactive juvenile who was not able to communicate.
February 4th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Thomas and Clayburn- huge difference in yelling at a bunch of teenagers, and getting a bunch of Grown millionaires to listen. You over estimate the authority of a headcoach in the NFL. They are paying Shiano about what a good kicker makes. The have multimillions tied up in these players. If they tune him out- Schiano gets canned- not the players! Coaches get canned every year, because their players stop listening. They don’t cut 2 or three first round picks for ignoring the coach- they try another Coach.
If the players don’t buy in- adios coach. They buy in when they respect the coach, and believe in his system. Of a coach goes in and started screaming at these guys, like you would a bunch of kids, they would pick his lil ass up and throw him out the door.
Big difference in an NFL locker room and a college locker room. I was hoping for a Coach that knew how to deal with these young, rich, monsters. Do you really think Schiano is going to intimate any of these guys, other than Meybe Connor Barth? Really? You must be kidding
February 4th, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Capt.Tim there’s also a little thing called game tape. And every team has game tape on every other team, including the bucs. As the saying goes, the tape dont lie and if these players dont put out full out effort and are released because of it, do you really think any other team is going to pick them up. They are out of a job and no longer getting payed unless they are still under contract. Last time i checked the bucs dont have any players with enough power to overrule schiano if they dont like him. Im pretty sure ownership sides wth the coach most of the time. We can go on and on about this but only time will tell.
February 4th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Clayburn- they didn’t give a darn about tape last year- did they. There is footage of Quincy black walking away from plays. And I bet he’s still here this year- big contract from Dom.
If Shiano cuts Black- I’ll be a believer. If he’s still starting next year- we got another cheap, NJ Db coach puppet
February 4th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Tim,
Rutgers seniors are 22. Buc 1st through 4th year players are 26 max, that is no difference.
There will be very few players on the team making more than Schiano: DJ, penn, gmc, clay (maybe), who else? Free in 2013.
If rahdom players don’t buy into Schiano, adios rahdom players. Rahdom players didn’t buy into rahdom – so adios rah (sadly not Dom – he takes out the trash).
February 4th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Thomas- suuuuure they will. I can just picture them loading up Clayborn, Price, Benn, Freeman, and Blount on a bus, and firing their asses, because they didn’t listen to Schiano
No Thomas. In the NFL, Players stay, Coaches go! Opposite of college.
Do you really follow the game?
February 5th, 2012 at 3:38 am
Gentlemen, I use the term loosley for some, I think with our new coach we will be 9/6 or at worst 8/8 this next year. How well do you like crow Tim? Do you wish it barbecued or brayzed?
February 5th, 2012 at 9:36 am
You won’t know what is going to happen next season until you see free agency and the draft. If youbring back the same roster you get similar results. Schiano will see him share of adversity early but that will show him the character of some of these players thrusted on him from the Bucs. I personally would pass on the Bucs if I were coaching becuase the players quit. It’s like stealing, if you get away with it once you will do it again. I would concern more over the coaching staff and the quitters more than the HC.
February 6th, 2012 at 3:47 am
The quitters were in the lb core and secondary. All of the young guys on the d line played hard..just had some injuries and no gap discipline. Its hard to imagine guys like Hayes, Black, tjack, jones, talib, etc. showing Schiano the door if they dont buy in when they are marginal nfl players. The avg nfl career is like 2 yrs so I cant imagine capt tim thinking these never weres have some kind of job security where they are calling the shots. They also signed Schiano to a 5 yr deal I would say they have made a commitment to him…the crap players will be weeded out. .
February 6th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Raheem Morris was clueless. His “M-O” revolved around fast talking and euphemisms. Half of what he said didn’t make sense. It was as if he thought that the players would buy-in to his persona and everything else would fall into place. He blew his chances of ever being a head coach again.
February 6th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Capt Tim. Does Schiano strike you as the type of guy who is going to let the players dictate what happens in the locker room, on the practice field, or in the game and remain on the roster? He strikes me as a man who is capable of organizing a team and a coaching staff. He strikes me as a man who is capable of getting players to play at a high level as evidenced by the number of players that came out of Rutgers NFL ready. He strikes me as a guy who is going to command respect and will put up with no nonsense. He strikes me as a winner. I may be wrong but I’m excited about this guy and I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. If you choose to be pessimistic that’s your choice but it seems kind of pointless. Is it going to make you feel better if it turns out you’re right? If that’s the case you kind of suck as a fan.
February 6th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
I was just reading your posts again Capt and I came to one realization….you never played football did you. I don’t even have to put a question mark at the end. It’s a statement. Anyone who actually played the sport would know that your argument with the players is baseless. Players want to win. It’s what they live for and what they play for. If they have a coach who loves to win and can teach them how to ‘prepare’ to win they will go to war for him. Why do you think the 49’rs did such a turn around with Harbaugh? He knew how to organize, he knew how to motivate and he knew how to instill belief and prepare his players to win. Ultimately the players have to play the game and if you think that players like GMC, Price, Bowers, Clayborn, etc. aren’t going to line up and follow the lead of Schiano then you have never played organized football before.
If you even thought that these guys would NEED to be put on a bus…you are clueless. These are quality young men and they just need a quality coach like Schiano to lead them. They’re not some spoiled millionaires who are telling the coach “it’s my way or the highway.” If that were the case it would be anarchy in the NFL. Players leave just as often as coaches when they don’t follow the system. The Randy Moss’s and Haynesworth’s of the NFL prove that.