Martyball May Be What Bucs Need
January 11th, 2012
It will be a long time before Joe ditches the sordid memory of the Bucs — being coached by a defensive guy no less! — hacking up 42 points in 22 minutes in what proved to be the Bucs career finale for jettisoned coach Raheem Morris.
To watch the replay of that game should be like the opening moments of a graphic World War II documentary on the Military Channel where viewers are warned some scenes may be too disturbing for children.
Now that the Bucs are in the midst of a coaching search, just to hear some of the names of candidates with head coaching experience has nearly forced Peter Schrager of FoxSports.com back to his favorite watering hole, so he wrote Tuesday.
When you’re up against the likes of two Schottenheimers, Wade Phillips, and Mike Sherman, it’s hard not look like Brooklyn Decker leaning up against a jukebox. [Jeff] Fisher’s “stock” has skyrocketed in the last two months and it’s certainly not because of some new, innovative offense he’s been outlining on the beach in San Diego. …
In one fell swoop, Tampa Bay will go from a young, innovative unknown coaching entity to an old, well-traveled coaching re-tread. You know what you’re getting with a Marty Schottenheimer or a Wade Phillips. It might not be Super Bowl rings, but it’s stability, it’s a time-tested process, and for at least a few years — some order to the asylum. And for many franchises and long-losing fan bases, that’s enough.
Dominik rolled the dice on Morris in 2009, and after a 10-game losing streak to end what started a promising 2011 season, he crapped out. Now, he’ll go safe and play the penny slots. One extreme to the other. In three or four years, the pendulum will no doubt swing the other way.
In short, Schrager wonders why teams aren’t hiring up-and-coming coordinators. But like he wrote above, it’s the safe route, the best way for a general manager to save his job. As long as a team hovers near the .500-mark and competes for a division title, it’s unlikely a general manager will have to clean out his desk.
Chokenheimer, while safe, would be like a drill sergeant to the young Bucs. Drill sergeant in that if someone loafs or blows off meetings or doesn’t know the playbook, they will be drilled right out of town.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:08 am
14-2 or 12-4 is way above 500….just watch what a little discipline and fundamental tackling and blocking will do….btw Marty did not miss 1 fg or throw any ints in the post season….
January 11th, 2012 at 9:11 am
I wonder how long Talib lasts….
January 11th, 2012 at 9:15 am
I’m in, Marty Ball 2.0
But please don’t draft Trent Richardson in the 1st round, wait for LaMichael James in the 2nd, take Mo Claiborne, cut Talib and start fresh with a FA to replace Ronde. Or trade down and pick up a couple of extra picks and then Claiborne at no. 9 or 10.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:19 am
Claiborn won’t me available at 9 or 10. Watch for Minnesota at 3. Their secondary was one of the worst last year.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:21 am
I have my doubts Lemichael James is the pick if Marty is the guy. We will a power style back that can grind the game. He won’t be going with 1 big back. If LGB got hurt are we gonna pound a 175 lb RB at a team all game long. He really is puny.
Also in my mind Marty Ball is about the same definition as Buc Ball
January 11th, 2012 at 9:29 am
Not to throw fuel on the fire but not only has Brian Schottenheimer left HIS position, but Hudson Houck (Chargers line coach under Marty, 2002-2004) left the Cowboys for retirement? Sounds like Marty is forming his staff….;)
January 11th, 2012 at 9:30 am
@jvato24
Who drafted Sproles in SD? Marty.
Give me LGB, along with another 220lbs. back and LaMichael James, I’ll take that backfield rotation anyday.
Marty ball uses a lot more of the passing game than Buc ball, Marty will go deep at least 2 times a half, watch, it’s part of his philosophy, pound them, then stretch them, and keep doing it until they break.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:31 am
It appears people are still settling for…just say no.
When you drive a little off the road, do you yank the steering wheel all the way to the other side? If you do, you certainly will crash.
Hire a young coach with discipline and a progressive offense. Spags or Dell Rio as DC.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:36 am
@bucjeff… Have you seen Marty’s coaching tree, his win/loss record? He got fired after going 14-2. He can bring in young coordinators. Your still living under Raheem’s spell that the coach has to be friends with the players. he is exactly what this young team needs.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Im all for Marty Ball. And who knows maybe he hasnt won a lot of playoff games but that doesnt matter to me at all. We all know he wont be around forever and he definitetly will install some order to this team. Back in 2002 bucs had never won a game below 30 something degrees, well we all know what happened we won that game against the eagles then won the superbowl. Maybe marty can finally get his ring.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:53 am
Flmike
Sproles is pretty well put together. I was all about James but he seems skinny and small. Maybe the combine will show more at weigh ons
January 11th, 2012 at 9:53 am
The guy is almost 70. Let’s not forget that.
January 11th, 2012 at 9:59 am
Marty brings instant credibility and accountability. So too would Brian Billick, who I still think needs to be interviewed at least.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Sproles 5’6″ 190lbs
James 5’9″ 195lbs
Plus as soon as they are signed and in house all players are put on a weight training program.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:21 am
I have a feeling that Claiborn and Blackmon are both gone by the time we pick at 5, if we can’t trade out Richardson isn’t a bad consolation prize….plus if we are really getting involved in FA (we’ll see) Cortland Finnigan or Terrell Thomas and Brent Grimes to shore up the secondary and Vincent Jackson at WR.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:21 am
I know wishful thinking
January 11th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Marty is exactly what the Bucs need. He will provide stability, dicipline and a culture of winning just like he did in KC and SD. Once we get that, we bring in someone else. He’s not a long term solution but we need him to get the ship righted again.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:31 am
bucfanjeff
If Marty comes are you going to get behind him or become the next Thomas?
January 11th, 2012 at 10:36 am
@Brad – I’m under no spell. I think Marty is a bandaid that runs a conservative offense. We are NOT a run first team. Look at the evolution of the league – it’s a passing league. He’s old school. My concern is that he remains old school, if so, FAIL. Patriots, Packers, Saints are the top 3 offenses in the NFL. They are exciting to watch and it sells tickets. Not to mention two of them are the top seeds in their conference. Their defenses are ranked 31, 32 and 24, the BUCS were 30.
My fear is: 1)He doesn’t change with the times (a leapord doesn’t change its spots), and 2) He hires his son (FAIL)
I think their are other candidates that are better that we haven’t interviewed.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:36 am
I could see Marty coming here to do 2 things. 1 bring order, respectable play back to Tampa bay and 2 groom some up and coming coordinators for the long term solution for the team. Something like Wade Philips did in Dallass with Garrett. Wasn’t it just a couple of years ago his son was a “Rockstar” type OC in his own right. Couple of bad seasons for the Jets and he was the sacrificial lamb to appease the fans because they couldn’t fire Ryan even though it was his team. Grooming a top notch team and coaching staff while putting some W’s in the win column is just fine with me. Bring on Marty ball! I also still am puzzled by indifference towards Fisher without an interview and not at least interviewing Billick.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:38 am
The 2006 San Diego Chargers averaged 30+ points per game. I’m kinda starting to like the idea of Martyball…
January 11th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Guys, don’t forget that he also would be coming in here after winning the 2011 UFL Championship.
WoooHoooo!!!
January 11th, 2012 at 10:46 am
I can’t wait to see these comments once Sherman is hired. Just remember that the bucs didn’t contact Marty his agent contacted them. I think Marty has been a fine HC throughout his career but at end of day his age will be determining factor.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:47 am
btw, I still think a surprise is in the works. The Marty thing, thus far, is only speculation.
Also, teams can deny interviews of asst. if not for head coach. If the Glazers keep a Marty move quiet they can interview the asst under theguise of head coach.
“We really like you. If we decide to go with more experience for now would you be int in acood. position?
January 11th, 2012 at 10:50 am
After 3 years of Marty, the Bucs will be the most attractive coaching gig in the NFL. No question he’d sort this thing out and get it moving in the right direction.
68 is not too old, it’s not like he’d be learning on the job and I bet he would love to win a Super Bowl to shut everyone up — that’s motivation enough.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:53 am
@bucjeff.. The best way to keep a high scoring team is to have a solid running game and win the TOP (see the Bucs game against the Rams in playoffs when they were the top offense), and a solid Defense. Marty is a winner no matter where he’s gone. Watch how Blount and a solid #2 either thru draft or FA and makes this a running team. Bring on Marty Ball.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:55 am
@jdog.. No way Sherman is next head coach.
January 11th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Pete, I went on the JBF Blackout Tour Bus down to Ft Myers. Everyone on the bus, and I mean everyone was trying to Find Thomas 2.2. I guess someone started a rumor he was on the Bus. We never did find him, and the Bucs were still “invincible” then. However, it turned out Thomas 2.2 was right all along, about many things!
It is said, “if everyone thinks the same, there is not much thinking going on”
I actually enjoy reading other people opinions here, though they differ, sometimes radically, from my own.
As much as some may not like it, Thomas 2.2 turned out to be right, and about a lot of things. You got to give it up for the man. I am certain had we found him on the JBF Blackout Tour Bus, he would have been publicly ridiculed, at the very least.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:01 am
I can’t help but wonder if they’re looking at Schottenheimer as more of a front office consultant position rather than a Head Coach. I would be just fine with him as Head Coach, but at this point, I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to have him there to help these guys out with their search. I mean, he’s had good luck choosing his own staff in the past. Just a thought.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:11 am
Maybe a Pat Riley of sorts. Get the team back on track then step into the FO
January 11th, 2012 at 11:14 am
Atleast we should all know an a week or so …
Dang … A WEEK ??!?
January 11th, 2012 at 11:14 am
@A Real Bucs Fan – I will support whomever the coach is until he proves otherwise. I’ve been a Bucs fan since I moved to Tampa in ’81 as a 7th grader – that won’t change.
@Brad – Valid points, but aggressive passing attacks don’t need much time to strike. Run first teams are boring and unexciting to most. Fans want entertainment for their dollar and would probably rather see their team score 30 than 10.
There can be arguments for both points. I’m just saying my belief and preference is for a younger coach, at the very least OC\DC, with discipline. I’m also not say Marty WON’T work, I just think it’s short term thinking. He’s old school and will hire such a mindset. I don’t think that is the right move.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Some of you really need to research Marty. I didnt want hime here at first but after seeing his stats, im all for it.
This guy is a winner. If your on the fence about him just do some looking online.
Hes been a winner in every team hes been to. Out of 26 NFL yrs the man had two years below .500. In the 4 yrs he was with the Chargers they were ranke #1 for 2 yrs. He left them with a 12-4 record.
Aside from his age i dont see a downside. Hell, he can be like a father figure and instill some wisdom to the young bucs.
What say you?
January 11th, 2012 at 11:17 am
@bucfanjeff
Phillip. Rivers.
Josh is young. Run first is what he needs at this stage of his development. Fewer picks.
With a run game theclock grinds giving teams less time to run up the score. Plus, defense will still be important. 2002 was #1 offense vs #1 defense. Defense won the SB. 30points would be enough.
Marty would not be settling.
Marty would be genius for the long term outlook of this team.
btw
How many SBs have the chargers won with thier (now) pass first team?
January 11th, 2012 at 11:27 am
@bucfanjeff
I thought Alstott was exciting, but you make a valid point. I hate watching the dolphins…but Ialso don’t recall the Chargers being boring.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:34 am
I wonder if Schott is behind the scenes right now assembling his staff for the Job Ocean 11 style ??!
January 11th, 2012 at 11:34 am
I appreciate the nice words and acknowledgement Apple Roof.
I wish Joe, Hawaiian and Pete would acknowledge the same, but its okay it is very hard to admit that your wrong and you adversary is right – its human nature.
As an example, Joe refuses to admit that Dom has not earned the title of rockstar.
As for Marty, I firmly believe that this group of players needs him. John Lynch has told the story when asked about how the Bucs could be so horrible: about Tomlin coming in and sacrificing the first year to piss off the players by working them hard and discipling them to earn respect and show that he was their boss and not buddy – he said Rah Rah never did that choosing instead to befriend them and try to make them play hard through words and phrases.
I don’t say that to blast Rah but I could tell from the first practice I attended that it was run more like a high school practice (in terms of the slow pace, jovial atmosphere and little attention to detail) than a NFL practice.
These bad habits are ingrained in many players and need to be worked out. Marty can do that. I don’t like him being 68 because that means he has a 2-3 year shelf life – that is why I want him to bring Brian and another potential coordinator to transition smoothly to head coach.
Dom also needs a voice to overrule him when he makes poor decisions – which he is prone to do. Whomever decided to give Rah the head coaching gig and then provide players with no little lockerroom leadership (by a player) was idiotic – destined to fail. Dom (if he is a rockstar) should have known that.
Marty should have been the coach 3 years ago with a legit young coordinator (like Brian S.) to take over when Marty retired.
Unfortunately, these players need Marty – so lets get behind him.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:37 am
Those of you worried or excited about Brian Schottenheimer
Being reported by Rick Stroud that:
Per ESPN’s Adam Schefter: Former Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer would not join father Marty if he’s hired in Tampa Bay
January 11th, 2012 at 11:41 am
From what I have seen, it doesn’t matter if you are a run-first or a pass-first offense. What matters are two things:
1. Having a defined offensive gameplan (let’s face it, Olsen did not do this)
2. Execution of the plan
If you can execute a run-first, play-action offense at a high level, then you will score points. It may be an average of 25-30 points instead of 35-40 points, but with your defense off the field, you prevent the other team from running up the score.
January 11th, 2012 at 11:51 am
JOE,
Love your site, work and topics.
Not a fan of:
“Chokenheimer, while safe, would be like a drill sergeant to the young Bucs.”
If 200-126 is choking, then how is DOM’s 17-31 “RockStar”? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?
Don’t give me all that “no playoff success crap”, he atleast gets us there, and demands “EFFORT” something the “rockstar” couldn’t bring in under his watch.
Booya!
January 11th, 2012 at 11:58 am
I do have inside sources that say Sherman is assembling staff as he thinks he will b next hc. Call me crazy but just wait.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
How does Schefter know Brian Schott wouldnt come here ??
January 11th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
@steveK
If Marty comes in and succeeds, wouldn’t it have happened under “rockstar’s” watch?
Booya! right back atcha!! 😉
January 11th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
stevek:
BS! If you are not playing for a Super Bowl, then why even play?
January 11th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
JOE,
You gotta get to the playoffs before you have a chance to win a championship. Marty can get to the playoffs, lets see if he has what it takes to get the Bucs over the Hump.
BS! On Dom being annointed a “ROCKSTAR” with a 17-31 record at the helm. That dog won’t hunt.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Run first defense doesn’t have to be boring; See Bucs in recent past WD40. Watching Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott grind up the field was pretty exciting. Yes, I still feel we need a balanced attack but to be that high flying offense that so many want/need you have to have key personnel at WR/QB/TE/RB all clicking on the same cylinders at the same time, only a handful of teams can pull that off at the same time so the %’s do not favor us being the greatest show on turf but I do like are chances of being the toughest show on turf.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Run first defense doesn’t have to be boring; See Bucs in recent past WD40. Watching Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott grind up the field was pretty exciting. Yes, I still feel we need a balanced attack but to be that high flying offense that so many want/need you have to have key personnel at WR/QB/TE/RB all clicking on the same cylinders at the same time, only a handful of teams can pull that off at the same time so the %’s do not favor us being the greatest show on turf but I do like are chances of being the toughest show on turf.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
@ A REAL BUCS FAN
Yessiree, Bob. I would love to see Dom get this Franchise back on track and into the Defensive winning machine they once were.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
OK. Everyone who complains about run first and wants to point to the Saints….why do you think they traded back up to get Mark Ingram?? You HAVE to have a running game in order to set up the passing game. The Saints have Thomas, Ivory, Sproles, and Ingram. If you watched them they have a strong running game and it allows Brees to work the play action. That’s exactly what we need. I personally would like to see us get Richardson or Blackmon for the offense but Claiborne is going to be hard to pass up if he’s there. A lot depends on what is available in FA. If they feel they can get a good RB or receiver in FA then they may go after Claiborne. Then again they may trade down and get Kuechly or someone like Jeffery from South Carolina. Who knows…it’s all conjecture right now but it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Thanks for the acknowledgement Apple.
I wish Joe, Hawaiian and Pete would do the same but admitting your opponent is right and you are wrong is very difficult.
Like admitting that “rockstar” is the most ill-fitting name ever.
Marty is what is desperately needed here after the unfortunate 3 years of ingraining unprofessionally bad habits into our players. I saw it the very first practice I attended under the Rah/Dom regime.
The pace, environment etc seemed un-NFL like compared to Dungy and Gru – it was obvious that this experiment was doomed. Joe and others honestly believed that Rah was hired on merit, he wasn’t, he was hired bc he was cheap and the Denver interview gave them an excuse.
These players need discipline, not encouragement through cute words and phrases – there is enough talent here to be competitive. Marty will show you that during the 2nd half of next year – it will take a few weeks to weed out the bad habits.
January 11th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I’m liking the idea of Marty ball more and more. Seems other teams are jumping in on Marty too. The Rams are apparently looking at him if Fisher goes to Miami. He’s a proven winner and has improved every team he has coached. This choking business from Joe will get old quick. A missed field goal here and a turnover there could have been the difference in those playoff losses. He got his teams there consistently.
January 11th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
APPLE, WILL YOU QUIT STROKING THIS GUYS EGO??? Tell me where the organization went so wrong?? The hire Rah, he goes 10-6 last year and barely misses the playoffs. Would YOU have fired him???? OF COURSE NOT. So he blows this year and they do just what they are supposed to do….they fire him. OK. Case closed and let’s move on. Doesn’t mean they were wrong…it means virtually everyone was wrong because the man was up for coach of the year honors last year. Apparently a lot of teams make the wrong choice because a lot of coaches come and go every year. You never know unless you try.
January 11th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby:
I was right because I said in 2009 when Rah was hired that it was a terrible decision motivated by money (or lack there of) and not merit. I maintained that through the 2010 season which was a Mirage bc Rah got gifted 6 or 7 games which they struggled in but pulled out late against bad teams without their best qb option, i.e. : Whitehurst, Max Hall, Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, Troy Smith, Jake Delhomme and further they had weird wins like the dropped extra point game against the Redskins and the Rams week 4 or 5 before Bradford settled down, and the Saints pulling Brees down 7 in the 3rd quarter after they learned that Atlanta was pounding Carolina and the Saints couldnt improve their playoff position.
I was telling everyone before during and after 2010 that the Bucs were a bad team (4 or 5 win team) despite their inflated record. The defense was horrible in yards allowed but wasn’t giving up as many points bc of the qbs they were facing, the offense had a rare year of very few turnovers. It was an aberration.
It was obvious in 2010 that the team was poorly coached, undisciplined and prone to getting blown out, i.e. Pitt and NO. People kept asking me how I could say that, and I would say watch the game without concern for the score. The bucs were routinely facing inept offenses bc their qbs were hurt.
Very much like the Colt game this year, the Colts are a shell of the Colts without Manning. So were the Seahawks without Hasselback (in fact with Hasselback starting the Seahawks walked right down the field and scored to take a 7-0 lead, then Matt got hurt and the offense stalled for the rest of the game).
The general public didnt pay attention to the bucs game just that they improved by 7 wins which is why Rah get coach of the year attention. If you watched the games objectively you knew better.
Objectively, Rah was the worst head coach that I have ever seen – that is demonstrated by 42 unanswered points in 1.5 quarters against the Falcons – a team that scored 2 points against the Giants a week later.
The players didnt know where to go, and bc they were failing they stopped listening to their buddy. That was predictable, you cant be a Rah Rah buddy buddy loose atmosphere play-for-me-because-I-am-your-age and listen to the same music coach.
The Glazers were purely trying to find a cheap coach in case Gruden didnt accept another NFL coaching job and the had to pay him. Period. Gru wasnt fired for under-performing – he was fired bc he refused to further slash payroll. Gru felt like they had done that to the tune of 30 million and any further cuts would make winning impossible – and would consequently hurt his value on the market.
Gru didnt think that they would fire him bc of how much $ they owed him.
That is the real story. This spin that the Glazers thought that Rah Rah was an up and coming star and $ had nothing to do with why he was selected and hired is b.s.
I believe that Biasaccia was pissed that Rah screwed the profession by taking 10 cents on the dollar to head coach – thereby disserving head coaching values for future first-time head coaching candidates – rah lowered the floor which pisses coaches off. That may be why Richy jabbed Rah when he went out the door implying taht Rah wasnt a good coach – which of course he wasnt.
January 11th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Bobby, I am just giving Thomas 2.2 his props is all.
You should have been on the Joe Bucs Fan Blackout Tour Luxury Bus Bobby, on our way down to see the blacked our Bucs game at Leroy Selmon’s in Ft Meyers.
I think it is safe to say that Thomas 2.2 was THE most hated man who posted here ? Rumors were flying on the Bus about Thomas 2.2 being on board!
The “conventional wisdom” at that time was that Tampa was a playoff team, yet in the face of great unpopularity, Thomas 2.2 stuck by his opinions, and brought us all back to reality.
I am not a violent person Bobby, and not about to get into a physical altercation with anyone over opinions expressed on a Football site.
But I can assure you, “the hunt for Thomas 2.2” on that tour bus quite possibly could have had sinister implications, had he been located.
In the face of all of this, Thomas 2.2 stuck by his opinions, and for that, he deserves his props, and our respect.
It is said “The Truth shall set you free, but you ain’t always gonna like to hear it”
I don’t know Thomas 2.2, and I am non violent. However, had we found him that day on the Blackout Tour Bus, I probably would have got in a verbal shot about how stupid he was, and don’t know chit about Football, etc, etc, etc.
In retrospect, how wrong I would have been.
It is my opinion as well that Thomas 2.2 has been pretty dog gone cool about not excessively stroking himself, considering the ridicule he once faced here on JBF.