Bucs In No Rush
January 16th, 2012
With six head coaching vacancies around the NFL following the 2011 regular season, and three already being filled by Jeff Fisher, Mike Mularkey and Romeo Crennel, there is seemingly a large pile of interesting candidates for only three remaining positions.
So why should the Bucs be in a hurry?
Longtime NFL writer, popcorn-munching, coffee-slurping, fried chicken-eating, oatmeal-loving, beer-chugging Peter King, of Sports Illustrated, touched on this and the Bucs’ coaching search in his Monday Morning Quarterback column t0day on SI.com.
8. I think the Bucs could take 10 days to two weeks from now to hire a coach. Why, you ask? Why not? Where’s the competition for jobs right now? If you can interview 13 guys and steal some knowledge about how your team is perceived and how certain coaches would coach your team that can help you when you finally hire the one you like the best, why not do it? It’s like I said last week: There’s nothing wrong with picking the brains of smart coaches to improve the quality of the product you put on the field. Al Davis did it all the time.
Of course, scoring the best possible assistant coaches is one reason to move quickly on a head coaching decision. A team doesn’t want to be reactionary and rush into a head coach, but deciding last and late might not be a great idea, either.
It’ll be interesting, and telling, if the Bucs move quickly this week to interview Packers assistants Winston Moss, Tom Clements and/or Joe Philbin.
January 16th, 2012 at 10:52 am
Here is how the bucs are received:
Qb with potential and good offensive line;
Terrible at the offensive skill positions;
One of the worst defenses in NFL history;
Poor tackling team with bad discipline;
Young DLine with some talent but very poor at pressuring qb;
Good kicker and Punter;
Bad depth;
Slowest team in NFL, when coupled with being undersized, not very competitive.
January 16th, 2012 at 10:57 am
I’m sure DOM is taking time so he can hang on to GM position as long as possible. Once we have competent HC, the pop star will be exposed.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Thomas… don’t forget
Young DLine with some talent but injury prone. All of the 4 draft picks the last two years are all injury prone… Adrian has a handicap.
This could go down as a great idea but prove to be a horrible experiement in drafting big name college d-lineman yet not so good NFL lineman.
There is a reason why the scounts are so interested in the NFL prototypical player who not only has the raw talent, but the health required to make an impact for 7-10 years.
I doubt that any of our lineman drafted the last 2 years will make it 10 years.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:03 am
I like the waiting approach. That’s exactly how they got Dungy and Gruden. Worked out then.
When they scrambled to keep Rah from going to the Broncos, they jumped the gun and didn’t think it through.
Soon you’ll have just one team looking for a coach. Having done all the homework and enduring the slow interview process, the next coach gets hungrier and hungrier. Great business tactic.
I applaud the Bucs in this process. You just eliminate all the other yards so there is no possible greener grass.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:07 am
Why not indeed, we all know how successful Al Davis was!
January 16th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Why all the worries?
Rockstar has got this.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 am
I wonder what pop star will do if a candidate is only available for an interview after 4pm?
January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 am
How is this team undersized? Our QB is big, our RB is big, our entire OL is big absent Faine, our receivers are big, our DL is big, our LB core is big, the only area we aren’t big is at DB in which we are typical. I’d argue we have one of the bigger teams in the NFL. I’ll give you slow, but not anywhere near undersized.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Rockstar leaves at 4:00 each day because he is under strict orders to get the Glazer Boys lawn fully watered by five, or else he dosent get to play general manager anymore.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:26 am
Lol!
January 16th, 2012 at 11:29 am
And he has to have sufficient time to get over to Joe(s) to edit the next days postings.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Bucs need to follow Party Sciences 101
Basically the Bucs are like the dude that gets to the party around TEN … meets a Busty chick around 10:45 who is interested … But he wants to scan all his options to make sure their is not a chick with a lil bigger BUTT …
Then after scanning the party by 12:30 realizes there are no other hot chicks and decides to go find the first girl … How does it normally work for that guy and who does he ultimately spend the night with ???!
January 16th, 2012 at 11:34 am
The pros:
Our OLine is average size and Pig Penn gives them an artificial lift. Our DLine absent Albert is smaller by today’s standards. Our LBs are not big. We have no 250lb LBs and Hayes is really about 215, Foster 228, black is decent size but a disaster. Our secondary is small. Our receiving corp is not big by today’s standards where most teams gave a 6’3 – 6’5 receiver – we dont we have slow 6’1.5 and under players. Blount is above average in size but not an every down rb.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:42 am
“… Adrian has a handicap.”
What a joke.
At this point no Head Coaching candidate is going to take a job without leveraging against the other teams that have interviewed him. We’ll still get a shot at everyone we might want. There really isn’t much of a rush other than getting a staff assembled to watch tape and grade draft prospects.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:52 am
1) Qb with potential and good offensive line
The offensive line needs work…at a minimum of one position, possibly 2.
2) Terrible at the offensive skill positions
This is entirely not true. Couple poor coaching from Olson and the team quitting, the 10-6 season was not a fluke for the offense. They will be better under the right OC and HC.
3) One of the worst defenses in NFL history
There is no denying this…but it is also a defense that can only get better, especially after the last 2 drafts. The line is going to take huge steps forward.
4) Poor tackling team with bad discipline
A coaching issue. These guys can be made better, at least some of them. No doubt, the defense will require the most work because of CBs and LBs. I can see us getting a stud DT as well. The guys we have are OKAY at best, although I think GMC, if he can stay healthy long enough to develop, will get better. I’m not sold on Price as a starter.
5) Young DLine with some talent but very poor at pressuring qb
This will get better with experience and good coaching…and proper support from a better secondary. I expect Foster at MLB to take big leaps forward over the next 2 seasons…IF the new coach does not replace him with someone bigger or a vet.
6) Good kicker and Punter
I think we have the best in the league…even if stats don’t show it.
7) Bad depth
I COMPLETELY disagree with this! We have great backups at many positions…they are just in the starting roles right now. For example…people CLAIM Biggers needs more time. As a backup he would get that time. (personally, I think he’s always going to suck, but I’ve been wrong before).
The problem is the backups to the backups suck. We get proper starters in here and the depth will shine well enough.
8) Slowest team in NFL, when coupled with being undersized, not very competitive.
They are not slow. They just gave up on pursuit a LOT during this past season…at least many of them did. I think the Def. Line is determined as a unit to get better…but they needed more time to develop. 2 were rookies. The MLB was a rookie. They’ll come together.
So far as our first pick…
It’s a prime one. Where it goes is anyone’s guess until we get an HC. For example, if the OC of the Ravens becomes our HC, then we will likely go RB with the pick. He’s a “support the pass with the run” kind of guy. If we get Clements or Philbin, then WR will likely be the choice.
If, by some oddity we get a defensive HC, we’ll likely go CB…if he’s a 3-4 guy, expect DT within the first 2 picks.
But spending is not an issue now…
As of next year, all teams have to spend and the candidates know this. The Glazers almost HAVE to spend this year because the new HC will insist. Plus, I think we’re at the point where we have to spend to take the next step now. WE NEED VETERANS. Just spend wisely. Don’t overpay for sub-par guys. If we’re going to spend, do it on top tier players.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:56 am
@Thomas What other 4-3 team has two DE that have significant play time pushing 290? Price is over 315, McCoy was right at 300. Haynesworth is around 355 easy. Miller is about 320. That is big. Where did you get 228 for Foster? He is around 240 -245 easy. Black is just over 250. Hayes is hovering around 230(which is small) but Watson is about 250 as well. Talib is bigger than most CBs, and Lewis is of good size. Biggers is tall but Barber and Mack are plain little. Jones and TJack are typical but not undersized. Penn is big and no one on our our OL is undersized. Receivers are big not the tallest but big. Briscoe is 6’3″. Stocker is 6’5″ 260(thats a big TE). Blount is huge. Freeman is huge.
As a team we are definitely big. I would imagine in the tops as far as weight.
I know these weights to be somewhat accurate as I have been in many locker and weight rooms for many different sports as it is my business to talk to athletes about health, weight, mobility and strength.
January 16th, 2012 at 11:56 am
@jvato24
There’s and old saying… “go Ugly early… cause you don’t wanna go Ugly late”
:o)
January 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
jvato24, After 12:30 and a few drinks, they all look the same. They’re either good ole big ones or big ole good ones!!
January 16th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Offensive Skill Positions….good?
Come on, they are sub-par. Backs are horrible, Williams is a decent receiver but is at best a #2
Depth…..excellent!
Seriously – virtually every starter on the defense back 7 is a second teamer or worse. Just add 7 good starters and our depth is great.
Get my point?
ARBF: What team are you watching?
January 16th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Fyi – average nfl LB weight is 247. We dont have one starting backer that hits the average.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Like i said before, were waiting for all the coaches to be hired so we can can hire the the cheapest one. Id be surprised if we brought in a good quality coach to be honest with you. And i beleive Zimmer ends up in Miami after todays interview with us.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
@Thomas What is your source for this stat? Don’t tell me Yahoo Answers either.
Either way, Black and Watson are over that and Foster is right at that.
Go to the Ravens roster page. It is silly how closely sized our teams our. Our offense is bigger than there’s at practically every position. Our DEs are biggers than theres and our LBs are around the same size. It isn’t the same since they play the hybrid so many times different LBs have their hands on the ground but the size on our defense is similar to them.
If you move some of our guys around between DL and LB, we could match the Ravens starting 3-4 defense in weight no prob.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
We are the 5th heaviest offense line and the lightest defense.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/041124_rankings
That’s not necessarily bad. Only two of the top 10 heaviest teams are in the playoffs.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
@bobby lmao just to let you know those are statistics from 2005.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Bucs should just hire Thomas I’m sick of his constant whining and since he is all knowing about this sport might as well just let him do it.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Foster is 241…so no, he is not right at that. However, he IS bigger than Thomas claims.
And he is still growing. He’s just out of college and young. He’ll put on some bulk.
Bowers : 277
Clayborn : 287
Haynesworth : 350 (he actually has weight issue…and will not be here next year because his contract numbers balloon).
GMC : 295
Miller : 310
Okam : 350
Price : 303
Bennett : 274
I would say those are our top guys, right? Those numbers are from NFL.Com
Together, they (the line) average 305.75 lbs. I don’t know what the average Cover 2 defensive line is.
But in fairness, Thomas was talking about the LBs. I could not find an average other than on Ask.com and Answers.com and both were different. the range is 235-247. Neither separated 4-3 from 3-4. So the main LBs:
Black : 240
Foster : 241
Hayes : 226
Hayward : 240
Watson : 240
The average of them is 237.4 lbs.
So…unless Thomas can provide a credible source for the average, broken down by the NFL system types, the Bucs fall into the average…but barely.
I DO agree that we need bigger guys though. Foster is our biggest at 241. HAYES is severely under-sized.
HOWEVER…
In contrast, Derrick Brooks was 235 lbs when he retired. I don’t think ANYONE here can say he wasn’t any good at LB. So, I would have to say the the theory you put forth, Thomas, does not hold up. Except with Hayes.
Of MAYBE if we go to 3-4. On that I am not sure.
January 16th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Is LB weight important?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/130439-nfl-draft-line-backer-size-is-not-that-important
January 16th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
@eric
Agreed. Rockstar has your back…
January 16th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
6 nfl D lines averaged 320 plus with the Packers being right at 340. Take out Haynesworth who came in late and wont be retained and your average goes substantially below 300 – I would bet one of the smallest in Nfl.
I read a report previously which said that Hayes plays at 215. The defense is small and not physical, add in poorly coached and undisciplined and you allow 518 points.
January 16th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I did a little research…there is NO WAY I’m going to dig up the weight of every LB on every team in 2011…I have other things to do. However, I did dig up the weight of MLBs on the first 12 teams along hte team bar on NFL.com. They were all AFC teams, but a mixture of 4-3 and 3-4.
the average weight was 224.83 lbs on those 12 teams for the MLBs. Draw your own conclusions from that.
Me being thoroughly uneducated in the ways of football details…I was surprised to learn that the 3-4 teams had 2 starting MLBs. I assume that is to make up for having one less Defensive Lineman? Interesting.
If we switch to 3-4…GMC could be our second MLB. He’s got the size and smarts.
January 16th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
If our defense was statistically bigger (which it isnt), would it really matter? Being that we were that horrible? I believe we finished last in sacks. Last in yards allowed per play – which is amazing considering that in a lot of games – teams were burning clock for much of the second half (or first half against 9ers and Falcons).
People speak of the Pats and Pack having low ranked defenses in yards allowed, that stat is misleading bc they are in a prevent defense for many games – allowing yards to burn clock.
January 16th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Did you really suggest we make McCOy an ILB ??
Either way, the LBs weight is not that important .. But being 225 or under could definitely cause issues.
Hardy Nickerson I believe was around 237 LBs as is Jon Beason in Carolina. Its the weight of the Dogs heart that counts. And right now this team is not weighing in so well.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
I’ll admit that when it comes to 3-4, I know little.
In my uneducated way, I was thinking that in a 3-4 we use only 1 DT…which means we have too many of them on the roster. So I thought, are any of the DTs built for ILB? The closest I could think of was GMC. Plus, he has leadership skills and is a smart guy, so might pick it up.
That’s not to say I am right. I fully know I am talking out my hind quarters when it comes to 3-4. I’m hoping to learn more about it in the near future.
I was thinking that Ray Lewis is a big guy…and GMC is sort of built like a young version of him…sort of.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
The only source I found for 2011 avg LB size was wikipedia stating 248 – that is what I have heard. 4-3 front 7s are a typically a little smaller up front so that will account for some of the difference.
Avg D tackles are 310+. Mccoy and Price are not big, Bennett is tiny and Bowers and Clay are smallish. Okam and Albert are big but not key players.
Talib is good size, everyone else small. Foster close to the average but he is not a Mike.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Lol – GMC a young version of Ray Lewis. LMAO! Ray is 250 and top heavy, GMC is 300 and he is built like a pear – fat a– lower body and small and weak upper. Ray Lewis seeks contact and destroys. GMC seeks to avoid contact and gets destroyed. You could not find to more different NFL players.
GMC would shift outside in a 3-4. Bennett could play OLB
January 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
@Thomas 2.2
😉
January 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Ray Lewis is about 6’2″ 245 lbs. Gerald McCoy is about 6’4″ 295-300 lbs. that’s not even close. 295 lb men do not have the movement skills necessary to play linebacker….especially when u consider that typically the ILBs in a 3-4 are some of your best athletes, need to be able to play sideline to sideline.
the biggest MLB i remember was Levon Kirkland, who played around 265-270. and he wasn’t exactly known as a speedster.
McCoy may be slightly undersized as a DT, but he is wayyyyyy to big to be a LB….even as a pass rushing OLB in a 3-4, still way too big.
please just refrain from commenting for a year or 2, read some of the other posts, and maybe learn a thing or 2 before u further embarass yourself.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Thomas u are not making a distinction between 4-3 and 3-4 defenses. of course the Packers D line is going to have a higher average weight than that of a 4-3 defense. they have 3 guys who would all be playing DT if it was a 4-3. u would have to factor in the rush LBs if u want to try to make a comparison, but that still wouldn’t work. they are 2 entirely different defenses, built for entirely different purposes, so u really can’t make a comparison based on average weight.
and u can’t say Clayborn and Bowers are “smallish” and Bennett is tiny. Bowers and Clayborn each weigh around 275-280, which is more than the Giants DEs. Tuck and Osi are about 265-270, Pierre Paul is about 270 as well….which is roughly the same size as Bennett (JPP just happens to be a freakish athlete, which makes him seem much bigger).
i know u like to stir the pot, in fact u even seem to get off on it. i have no doubt that u actually do know what ur talking about, u make valid points pretty often. u just let ur antagonistic nonsense get in the way of facts 90% of the time.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
3-4 basically have the Bucs DT’s used at DE and a Guy like Okam at Nose Tackle … It definitely can vary. The ILBs Have to be very physical and you would need a unique guy to play OLB
January 16th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
thank u jvato….someone using a little common sense for a change
January 16th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
I could see GMC taking over the 5 Tech (LDE) in a 3-4 scheme. That is partially why he had such a high draft grade, because at OK he played all over the line effectively.